Does anyone know about, or is anyone into the 'Raw Food' lifestyle? I didn't want to call it the 'Raw Food Diet' as 'diet' implies fad, but it sounds interesting and at least a few proponents of it have a sports nutrition background, which sort of adds relevance to this audience I'm guessing.

Does it actually have any relevance, or is it just another reationary, reductionist, well, fad?

Anyone into it? What are your experiences? What's it like having 40 bananas for lunch? :rolleyes:

I've just seen the guy on PBS show you his recipies... Never really looked all that appetizing...

in this day and age it is hard to do. most of the people on it were vegans. but if you ate some coocked goods like meat and some veggies that are better for you cooked and everything else raw it is a good diet.
I felt pretty good on it but I could not eat enough food. but I sure had more energy then I ever remember having.

I've always liked the "real food" diet. But raw food is taking it a step too far. Fire was invented for more than just heat. Staying away from processed foods and other man made contraptions can go a long way to improving your diet.

I have a hard time pretending I'm a Neandethal, living in the forest and eating 80% fruit. It seems as unnatural as living on a steady diet of Coke and Burger King.

Part of what makes you adaptable in a modern world is your ability to eat a variety of foods and not die when you get outside your comfort zone. I have a hard enough time travelling to some of the countries I enjoy being a vegetarian, let alone if I lived on a steady diet of salad, oranges, and minced banana. I love the culture of food as much as food itself, so the only way I can see this 'raw food' lifestyle working is if you live as a recluse up in the hills somewhere. You sure wouldn't be much fun at dinner parties.

I'm wondering how beneficial the diet can really be. Proponents tout it as some sort of health giving miracle, but then again so does every self interested party.

How can you live on only 'simple carbs' and no complex carbs? As cyclists we're told to 'fuel up' on 'slow burning complex carbs' before races or hard training days. What's actually true? ( paging Ric Stern.....paging Ric Stern......)

I feed my dog a raw diet, using a prey model. And sashimi is wonderful, of course. I think a benefit will be had for adding more raw food into one's diet. However, I prefer a a 'real' or natural food diet, myself. Avoid overly processed food when possible. When did cooking with fire begin?

http://www.channel4.com/history/timeteam/snapshot_cooking.html

I believe, using the info below, that our bodies have by now adapted to cooked food. Artificial ingredients and processed foods are a different story (less than 100 years).

"No one will ever know for sure exactly when our ancestors first discovered that food was easier to eat – and tasted better – if it was cooked. Most likely the discovery was made by accident – as a result of game being burnt in a forest fire or grains roasted on a camp fire. At any rate, it is likely that fire had already been in use by hominids (human ancestors) for heat and light for many thousands of years before someone got the idea of using it for cooking as well.


The archaeological evidence for the first controlled use of fire is still hotly debated. Some palaeontologists attribute it to Homo erectus around the time of the hominid dispersal from Africa one million years ago; they argue that control of fire was necessary for the migration into colder climate zones. Certainly, the Zhoukoudian site, in China, where the famous 'Peking man' remains were discovered, has produced evidence for the presence of fire over a long occupancy period. But the absence of hearths and other factors have cast doubt on whether this really was controlled use of fire or simply natural. Burnt bones found here, and first thought to be evidence of early cooking, may actually be the result of natural burning. The first definite controlled fires in the archaeological record date from about 300,000 to 400,000 years ago. "

Raw food has enzymes that cooked food does not.

see www.rawfood.com for tons of info.

A good book is called "raw foodist propaganda"

Good point! one reason it's important to feed your dog/cat raw food!

Raw food has enzymes that cooked food does not.

see www.rawfood.com for tons of info.

A good book is called "raw foodist propaganda"

mmmmm sushi

I heard that tomatoes are good cooked cuz they release something good for you during the process?

I believe, using the info below, that our bodies have by now adapted to cooked food.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Like FXJohn said, cooking breaks down many beneficial enzymes. Additionally, certain cooking methods create compounds that our bodies don't handle so well. The raw foods proponents have amassed some pretty good data that support their views.
I don't think I could ever give up grilled or sauteed veggies though.

400,000 years?! I think that's a good amount of time to adapt. But we've only been farming for 10,000! Significant difference. Cheese is not cooked, is it?

400,000 years?! I think that's a good amount of time to adapt. But we've only been farming for 10,000! Significant difference. Cheese is not cooked, is it?

Making Cheese from Curdled Milk (courtesy of Edinburgh Business School)

"Cheesemaking capitalises on the curdling of milk. First, the milk is carefully selected to make sure there are no antibiotics or harmful agents that could affect the process. The milk is then heated and held at a given temperature for a short period to destroy any harmful bacteria (i.e. pasteurisation). Special starter cultures are then added to the warm milk and change a very small amount of the milk sugar into lactic acid. This acidifies the milk at a much faster rate and prepares it for the next stage. Rennet (mainly chymosin) is then added to the milk and within a short time a curd is produced. Pepsin is not normally used in Britain except for certain specialised cheeses. The resultant curd is then cut into small cubes, and heat is applied to start a shrinking process which, with the steady production of lactic acid from the starter cultures, will change it into small rice-sized grains. At a carefully chosen point the curd grains are allowed to fall to the bottom of the cheese vat, the left-over liquid, which consists of water, milk sugar and albumen (now called whey) is drained off and the curd grains allowed to mat together to form large slabs of curd. The slabs are then milled, and salt is added to provide flavour and help preserve the cheese. Later, it is pressed, and subsequently packed in various sized containers for maturing."

I have to say first that I eat cheese & love it. But many types are very high in fat, and some are very high in sodium. Plus human digestive systems are designed for the digestion of human breast milk (at least during infant years), not cow milk which is quite different, although cheese does bear little resemblence to its main ingredient. Given the large number of people who cannot digest cow milk, it does make you wonder if it should be included in the diet at all.

Have any of you guys really looked around this website? They have some ridiculous stuff up. Such as their view on AIDS (http://www.rawfood.com/aids.html) including this little tidbit:
"How AIDS can be overcome in three to five weeks in almost all cases."

And a nice little q&a. Here are a few excerpts:

Q: How did you come to this idea? Was it more a philosophical insight or something you learned from the scientific knowledge about health and the human body?

A: Along with David Wolfe and R.C. Dini, I came to this conclusion by pure logic. Would fire and intense heat improve one's house if applied? No, it would destroy it. And that's exactly what happens when your food is cooked, it becomes something less than it was before.

Q: What other lifestyle changes do you espouse besides adopting a raw food diet?

A: Eating only organic and wild foods. The commercial food of civilization is unfit for consumption and transforms people into mutants. Yes, that's harsh, but reality is harsh. When's the last time you saw a serial killer shopping at an organic produce market? Pesticides and genetically-modified food are not acceptable for the true health seeker. Humanity cannot improve upon natural foods with poisons and laboratory experiments.

I also advocate abstinence from schools and universities. Modern education is an indoctrination program for the development of mediocrity and set up for the lowest common denominator. I didn't become an intelligent, successful person until I quit going to college.

Interesting reading

:eek:

Which website is that from?! You didn't provide a link.

Have any of you guys really looked around this website? They have some ridiculous stuff up. Such as their view on AIDS (http://www.rawfood.com/aids.html) including this little tidbit:
"How AIDS can be overcome in three to five weeks in almost all cases."

And a nice little q&a. Here are a few excerpts:

Q: How did you come to this idea? Was it more a philosophical insight or something you learned from the scientific knowledge about health and the human body?

A: Along with David Wolfe and R.C. Dini, I came to this conclusion by pure logic. Would fire and intense heat improve one's house if applied? No, it would destroy it. And that's exactly what happens when your food is cooked, it becomes something less than it was before.

Q: What other lifestyle changes do you espouse besides adopting a raw food diet?

A: Eating only organic and wild foods. The commercial food of civilization is unfit for consumption and transforms people into mutants. Yes, that's harsh, but reality is harsh. When's the last time you saw a serial killer shopping at an organic produce market? Pesticides and genetically-modified food are not acceptable for the true health seeker. Humanity cannot improve upon natural foods with poisons and laboratory experiments.

I also advocate abstinence from schools and universities. Modern education is an indoctrination program for the development of mediocrity and set up for the lowest common denominator. I didn't become an intelligent, successful person until I quit going to college.

Interesting reading

I agree with the last Q & A, read up on all the weird chemical reactons that take place when you cook food, especially when you char meat over flame.

H When's the last time you saw a serial killer shopping at an organic produce market?
Well, I never saw a serial killer, but I did see a pretty scary looking carrot in Acme the other day.
:D

My neighbor got into this raw food diet thing. Then my cat dissappeared . . . :rolleyes:

Hey, anyone ever eaten raw beef? I had this dish in Korea once with raw beef and some kind of pear and other fruit and veggies. Very delicious, but not easy to digest.

And yeah raw fish is great.

Hey, anyone ever eaten raw beef? I had this dish in Korea once with raw beef and some kind of pear and other fruit and veggies. Very delicious, but not easy to digest.

And yeah raw fish is great.


Watch out for parasitic worms. Unless your trying out a new weight loss method, that is. :D

heath sites tend to get carried away. but if you think about it all animals eat raw foods only humans cook. look at all of the health problems we have. if you ate mostly raw food it would put dentists out of work.
this quote
A: Eating only organic and wild foods. The commercial food of civilization is unfit for consumption and transforms people into mutants. Yes, that's harsh, but reality is harsh. When's the last time you saw a serial killer shopping at an organic produce market? Pesticides and genetically-modified food are not acceptable for the true health seeker. Humanity cannot improve upon natural foods with poisons and laboratory experiments.

well not mutants but I bet a lot fo our health isssues relate to our foods. americans eat mostly garbage. supermarkets sure don't make money on selling good quality unprocessed foods. most foods in the store that are pre made have sugar and other crap no one needs.

heath sites tend to get carried away. but if you think about it all animals eat raw foods only humans cook. look at all of the health problems we have. if you ate mostly raw food it would put dentists out of work.
this quote
A: Eating only organic and wild foods. The commercial food of civilization is unfit for consumption and transforms people into mutants. Yes, that's harsh, but reality is harsh. When's the last time you saw a serial killer shopping at an organic produce market? Pesticides and genetically-modified food are not acceptable for the true health seeker. Humanity cannot improve upon natural foods with poisons and laboratory experiments.

well not mutants but I bet a lot fo our health isssues relate to our foods. americans eat mostly garbage. supermarkets sure don't make money on selling good quality unprocessed foods. most foods in the store that are pre made have sugar and other crap no one needs.

Steve - I agree that our modern diet is severely lacking, especially our increasing consumption of highly processed foods, but if you carry out the logic that all animals eat raw foods and are healthier then why do humans live so much longer than most of them. I think that's comparing apples to oranges.

it's not our food that does it. medical and not many dangers are why we live longer. it's not because we are heallthier I bet

Why do some species live longer than others? The shelf life difffers. Also, humans are on top of the food chain. We no longer have predators.

Steve - I agree that our modern diet is severely lacking, especially our increasing consumption of highly processed foods, but if you carry out the logic that all animals eat raw foods and are healthier then why do humans live so much longer than most of them. I think that's comparing apples to oranges.

Sure, adding heat changes things - its a chemical reaction. So is growing foods in different soil types. So is eating two different types of, yes, even raw foods together. Many 'Raw Fooders' it seems do wierd things like eat a whole melon for breakfast, followed by 10 pureed bananas for lunch, ( the call it a 'smoothie' to make it seem more avant garde, but really, did cavemen have blenders? ) then a simple salad for dinner with a handfull of nuts. Variety is what makes the human being adaptable, and eating a variety of different foods - yes, even at the same meal - is what makes us, well, rule.

( Can you imagine being a professional athlete with a diet that strict? Nobody would hire you, and you'd be so boring you'd probably have no friends! )

Also, we're not naturally evolved to be vegans. Sure, you can live well on a vegan or vegetarian diet ( I have done for 12 years ), but the decision to be so is socio-political, not medical. Eating a meat based diet is bad as it's high in saturated fats, but there's nothing scientific about that either - just as it's not scientific living off just fruit.

This reductionist, extremist thinking I think does nobody any good.

Does anyone have any info about not eating any complex carbs, as these Raw Fooders do? Do simple carbs with low GI have the same effect as complex carbs? ( Not that I'm going to stop eating pasta anytime soon, just curious )

Dunno how I missed your original question. I'll get stuck into after me ride; provided it cools down a bit.

As far as I've heard, raw food eaters are known as "raw foodists" or "fruitarians".
Just like the vegetarian argument, this "eating plan" can superficially sound convincing, but when it comes down to the crunch, it doesn't stack up.

Check out http://www.beyondveg.com/ , especially the "WAKING UP FROM THE FRUITARIAN DREAMTIME" article.

The conundrum with cooking food is that some foods lose some vitamins and minerals, and other foods can provide more nutrients when cooked -- as you've guessed, many vegies.

There's a big differnece between cooking something and burning something. Many carcinogenic compounds are produced in many foods when they're burnt.

If you wanna worry about something, do a search on "acrylamides" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1993435.stm
Some believe that this compound, found in many starchy grains processed at over ~120 C for more than ~10mins, is by far the most dangerous edible carcinogen. YIKES!! This basically includes fried chips ("freedom" fries), some breads and many breakfast serials.

PS I hope you're gettin' some B12 from somewhere, and if some hippy says bloody "mushrooms", I'll throttle them :p

Sure, adding heat changes things - its a chemical reaction. So is growing foods in different soil types. So is eating two different types of, yes, even raw foods together. Many 'Raw Fooders' it seems do wierd things like eat a whole melon for breakfast, followed by 10 pureed bananas for lunch, ( the call it a 'smoothie' to make it seem more avant garde, but really, did cavemen have blenders? ) then a simple salad for dinner with a handfull of nuts. Variety is what makes the human being adaptable, and eating a variety of different foods - yes, even at the same meal - is what makes us, well, rule.

( Can you imagine being a professional athlete with a diet that strict? Nobody would hire you, and you'd be so boring you'd probably have no friends! )

Also, we're not naturally evolved to be vegans. Sure, you can live well on a vegan or vegetarian diet ( I have done for 12 years ), but the decision to be so is socio-political, not medical. Eating a meat based diet is bad as it's high in saturated fats, but there's nothing scientific about that either - just as it's not scientific living off just fruit.

This reductionist, extremist thinking I think does nobody any good.

Does anyone have any info about not eating any complex carbs, as these Raw Fooders do? Do simple carbs with low GI have the same effect as complex carbs? ( Not that I'm going to stop eating pasta anytime soon, just curious )

it sounds to me like you're criticizing a diet you know NOTHING about?
no one said anything about "living off fruit" You have many things veggies, nuts and so on.
I have tried eating raw and I had tons of energy. Eating one raw meal per day can give you plenty of the benefits. Try the diet out and read up on it before you criticize.

Sprouted beans and grains are truly awesome and what about oatmeal: rolled/crushed oats soaked in water or juice. There's carbs there, eh?

I ate all raw for awhile man i sure felt good I had not felt that good in years. tons of energy all the time. but I got lazy and stopped eating enough.

http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/ideal-real/idealism-realism-1a.shtml
http://www.beyondveg.com/

http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/ideal-real/idealism-realism-1a.shtml
http://www.beyondveg.com/

So what? If you think processed food is good for you, we don't care.

This is the sort of agressive, emotive, "shove it down your throat" attitude that gives vegetarians a bad name.

You obviously haven't had time to read the links, so I take it you're not going to even bother.

I care about YOU!

This is the sort of agressive, emotive, "shove it down your throat" attitude that gives vegetarians a bad name.

You obviously haven't had time to read the links, so I take it you're not going to even bother.

I read it, didn't agree with all that much of it.
"I don't care, eat whatever you want if you think processed food is good for you"
You think that's aggressive?

The desire to be perfect, via a perfect, 100% raw diet, can increase the social isolation associated with raw diets, thereby increasing emotional stress.

LOL!

So what? If you think processed food is good for you, we don't care.

Well, it's not a measured, intelligent response to my thoughfully posted link to some useful information.
I'm hurt :(

Well, it's not a measured, intelligent response to my thoughfully posted link to some useful information.
I'm hurt :(

Maybe if you ate raw for a week, you'd think differently. Or one raw meal a day for a month.
Try it.

Maybe if you ate raw for a week, you'd think differently. Or one raw meal a day for a month.
Try it.

I did try it many years ago when I was young and impressionable (I still can't BELIEEEEEVE that I actually BELIEEEEEVED Fit For Life).

After complaining to my doctor that I could barely breath during physical activity, subsequent blood tests revealed that I had an iron deficiency

I did try it many years ago when I was young and impressionable. I still can't BELIEEEEEVE that I actually BELIEEEEEVED Fit For Life

After complaining to my doctor that I could barely breath during physical activity, subsequent blood tests revealed that I had an iron deficiency

OK, so you supplement your diet with some spinach/greens, or some red meat.
All I know is that I feel great the more raw I eat.

Kinda depends which direction you come from, doesn't it? I've been a vegetarian since 1993, so by default I already probably eat a percentage of raw food anyway. If on the otherhand I existed on a diet of Coke, KFC, and TV dinners, a switch to ANYTHING from that would be an improvement.

A friend of mine recently opened a raw food restaurant -- Leaf Cuisine (http://www.leafcuisine.com) -- in Culver City, CA and there's plenty of raw food there that omnivores (like me) will find really tasty. Check out the menu! (http://www.leafcuisine.com/menu.htm) The Bedouin Burrito is great. I recommend to anyone on the west side of LA ... check it out. Good, cheap eats.

Sociopolitical concerns aside, raw food is simply about preserving the nutrient value in food. It's pretty straightforward. Chris Carmichael is his new book "Food for Fitness" frequently mentions the harm done to food from cooking.

OK, so you supplement your diet with some spinach/greens, or some red meat.
All I know is that I feel great the more raw I eat.

I don't wanna get into a whole thing about it, but there's a big difference between a raw food diet and a diet that is predominantly raw but supplemented with a few cooked things.

The latter is probably close to prefect eating.

I like eating raw food mainly because . . .(drum roll please!)

I'm too lazy to cook!

I've even tried eating pasta raw. Darn stuff is pointy in your mouth, though.

Sometimes I take some soy bean flour, mix in water and eat. Haven't tried it yet with whole wheat flour.

Darn tootin'!!:)

A recipe is just something that stands between man and food.

I like eating raw food mainly because . . .(drum roll please!)

I'm too lazy to cook!

I've even tried eating pasta raw. Darn stuff is pointy in your mouth, though.

Sometimes I take some soy bean flour, mix in water and eat. Haven't tried it yet with whole wheat flour.

Wow, That IS lazy....You don't own a bedpan do you? LOL

Here's a book that's just out: Eating in the Raw: A Beginner's Guide to Getting Slimmer, Feeling Healthier, and Looking Younger the Raw-Food Way

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/140005284X/102-4317229-5373763

From the Inside Flap
Ten years ago, Carol Alt was feeling bad. Really bad. She had chronic headaches, sinusitis, and stomach ailments; she was tired and listless. And then Carol started eating raw—and changed her life. Eating in the Raw begins with her story and then presents practical, how-to information on everything you need to know about the exciting movement that’s been embraced by Demi Moore, Pierce Brosnan, Sting, Edward Norton, and legions of other health-minded people. You’ll learn:

•What exactly raw food is—and isn’t—and how to integrate it into your diet
•How to avoid the all-or-nothing pitfall: you can eat some cooked foods, you can eat some foods partially cooked, and you don’t have to deprive yourself
•Why raw food is not just for vegetarians or vegans—Carol eats meat, and so can you
•The differences between cooked and raw vitamins, minerals, and enzymes, and what they mean for you
•An ease-in approach to eating raw, and how to eat raw in restaurants

In addition, Carol answers frequently asked questions and offers forty simple recipes for every meal, from light dishes such as Gazpacho and Lentil Salad to entrees including Tuna Tartare and Spaghetti al Pesto and even desserts like Pumpkin Pie and Apple Tart with Crème Anglaise—rounding out a thorough, accessible, and eminently compelling case why in the raw is the best way to eat

I'm glad to see this thread!

mmmm... Carol Alt......... Eating raw...........

http://home.comcast.net/~shetzer/images/homerdrool2.gif

—Carol eats meat,

<Sproing>

OK, this thread has officially gone to hell.

OK, this thread has officially gone to hell.

aww, come on, that was kind of amusing...go ahead and make a point and change the subject :)

aww, come on, that was kind of amusing...go ahead and make a point and change the subject :)

Yeah it was kind of amusing :beer:

Sorry, all the raw food guys are all too skinny for me. If I'm wrong, post yer hot bods here.

Yeah it was kind of amusing :beer:

Sorry, all the raw food guys are all too skinny for me. If I'm wrong, post yer hot bods here.


aah, I doubt if anyone here is totally raw, most of us require too much fuel to be that choosy.
I could PM you a picture, but I'm not gonna post it..LOL

I just ate an apple. Does that make me like Pierce Brosnan?

<Sproing>
Reminds of this song from about ten years back:

"She don't eat meat but she sure likes the bone"

Can't remember the band though.