Fifty Plus (50+) - Medical Cost of a Minor Spill

I posted a few months ago telling the story of my 59 yo noob riding buddy who took a spill at about 8 mph. I'm sure it looked pretty funny from a distance, and I was prepared to have a laugh at his expense..but he was in genuine pain and he got home with the bike in the back of my truck. It turned out he hit his hip pretty hard, in fact a few days later he learned he'd cracked it. The bike didn't suffer a scratch.

He told me the other day the total medical bill / insurance accounting came in. Total cost of this fall turned out to $96,000, and the core of that was putting screws in his hip. That's at inflated insurance dollars to be sure, but $96,000... I wonder why they didn't just round it up to an even $100K.

Lots of thoughts come to mind, some which are inappropriate for this board, most centering on the long-term impact of insurance companies in bed with our medical industry.

Beware.

Hope he gets better quickly.

Worth a read and a bit more research. I often wonder how many patients in the US health care system regard themselves as customers (rather than victims) and protest loud and hard about the prices they get charged.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/us-health-care-wastes-us750b-a-year/story-e6frfkui-1226466885765

Why is it so expensive to buy medical Insurance? Because as the claim is on Insurance-The bill goes up drastically. If the real cost was paid by the Insurance companies and no more- then your insurance premiums would go down.

And you would not have as many Doctors living in Million Dollar homes with 3 Ferraris in the garage.

Why is it so expensive to buy medical Insurance? Because as the claim is on Insurance-The bill goes up drastically. If the real cost was paid by the Insurance companies and no more- then your insurance premiums would go down.

And you would not have as many Doctors living in Million Dollar homes with 3 Ferraris in the garage.

It's amazing the country puts up with the medical system as it stands. When my wife visited the ER one bill was cut by 50% if we paid within 14 days, and the prescription dropped from $70-odd to $30-odd as soon as I uttered the words "paying cash".

Personally I don't care if the doctor lives in a $1m home with a collection of Ferraris, but I'd want a choice that was more than whether to be slowly bled dry by insurance premiums or risk being financially ruined by getting sick.

I would bet money that the big players in the health care business are also big contributors to election campaigns. Democracy is for sale in America.

I would bet money that the big players in the health care business are also big contributors to election campaigns. Democracy is for sale in America.

:)Totally shocking! :)

Oh, and best wishes to the accident victim.

It seems that a lot of people don't pay large medical bills. One that size would be impossible for me. I probably couldn't even afford the interest on it.

The hospitals don't flag your credit rating, but eventually they sell the unpaid bills to collection agencies, and then they do affect your credit rating. They sell the unpaid bills for pennies on the dollar, so making a low offer might work.


http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/us-health-care-wastes-us750b-a-year/story-e6frfkui-1226466885765

Interesting article. That's a lot of waste.

My sympathies go out to the fellow with the injury.

Well, for what it's worth, here's my Canadian story: in the winter of 2010, I was riding along a bike path in the dark. The headlight was aimed too low to mark the overhanging branch from the tree that had blown over in the wind that night. The tree itself was resting over a cyclone fence, but a branch was just low enough that I hit it just below my helmet at maybe 15 kmh. Good thing I had the Oakleys on, they protected my right eye. After picking myself up, I got back on the bike and rode to Emergency at Burnaby General Hospital. The receptionist took one look at me, got my story and pertinent personal details, took my BC medical card, and had me go straight to one of the emergency beds. A doctor appeared after maybe fifteen minutes, put in some stitches, treated the wound, wrote a prescription for some pain killer, and I was back on the bike headed for work, but with a really ugly black eye!

Total cost (for which my work medical plan pays about $54/month): zip. $0.00. Nada. Cost me nothing. I could even have called an ambulance, and it might have cost maybe $50, or nothing, I'm not sure.

I believe the same thing would happen to anyone else living in any other civilized country in the world. Except the USA, of course! And I'm not trying to provoke any political debate, I'm just saying what really happens in Canada. I just love our health care system!

Luis

I believe the same thing would happen to anyone else living in any other civilized country in the world. Except the USA, of course! And I'm not trying to provoke any political debate, I'm just saying what really happens in Canada. I just love our health care system!

Luis


The whole health care debate has been so propagandized and politicized in this country that the average citizen has no idea what the facts are.

I had both hips replaced in 2008. Cost for both was @$60K. Your buddy must have had some complications. Hips can be tricky.

I hope he can get back to riding.

The whole health care debate has been so propagandized and politicized in this country that the average citizen has no idea what the facts are.

Whatever the facts, and whatever the relative merits of different healthcare systems, it does provide a degree of reassurance to know that if I suffered the same spill as described in the OP the cost to me at the point of being put back together again would be nothing.

Sorta reminds me of a very recent news story of a California woman stung by a scorpion and charged $80,000 for anti-venom treatments that would have cost $100 in Mexico. Something is horribly wrong and it isn't the yearly compensation of the doctors.

Actually, lhbernhart, you did pay for the hospital treatment you recieved, we(see location) just pay for it in smaller doses paid over the long term by taxes and other hidden payments not in a lump sum like the Americans. By the way the ambulance fee would have been $80 as the gov't raised the fee just before I retired in '07.

Thank God for our National Health Service.

Fall off bike, hurt bad, go to A&E they fix you up.

No charge.

Even when I havent worked for ages or paid anything in.

US has a system known as legalized bribery , More like begging from the Rich
to run 'the best government Money can Buy'

we pay for a great health care system , in Israel..


Even The VA does its best ti buck shift health care co pays
for the veterans to the Vets themselves who paid into private insurance..

But we make High Tech Weapons systems, want to buy some ?. we're #1 :notamused:

It's the only state welfare subsidized socialism both parties can support..

Politically Engineered, just build part in each congressman's district
and it doesn't matter what it costs..

You guys will complain about the doctors when Lance Armstrong rides a bike for millions and rappers get paid millions? Lol. Gimme a break.

And the fact that so many people don't pay their medical bills makes it hard on the ones that do. But our new health care will eliminate the waste.,

My sympathies go out to the fellow with the injury.

Well, for what it's worth, here's my Canadian story: in the winter of 2010, I was riding along a bike path in the dark. The headlight was aimed too low to mark the overhanging branch from the tree that had blown over in the wind that night. The tree itself was resting over a cyclone fence, but a branch was just low enough that I hit it just below my helmet at maybe 15 kmh. Good thing I had the Oakleys on, they protected my right eye. After picking myself up, I got back on the bike and rode to Emergency at Burnaby General Hospital. The receptionist took one look at me, got my story and pertinent personal details, took my BC medical card, and had me go straight to one of the emergency beds. A doctor appeared after maybe fifteen minutes, put in some stitches, treated the wound, wrote a prescription for some pain killer, and I was back on the bike headed for work, but with a really ugly black eye!

Total cost (for which my work medical plan pays about $54/month): zip. $0.00. Nada. Cost me nothing. I could even have called an ambulance, and it might have cost maybe $50, or nothing, I'm not sure.

I believe the same thing would happen to anyone else living in any other civilized country in the world. Except the USA, of course! And I'm not trying to provoke any political debate, I'm just saying what really happens in Canada. I just love our health care system!

Luis

On my little incident I waited three hours in the ER waiting room, got a shot and sent home. Four days later the surgery. Looking at the bills, if I had paid cash out of pocket it would have been more than double what they charged the insurance company. So if they are inflating the prices in collusion with the insurance companies, they're inflating them even more for people who don't have any.

But stitches are one thing. Just wait til you need a heart surgeon and see how that works out. I'll say the U.S. has the best doctors. As soon as the guvment gets involved in our health care you will see who wants to be a doctor then

It is insurance fraud to charge the insurance company more thana cash paying patient. Besides the insurance co sets the price they will pay.

It is insurance fraud to charge the insurance company more thana cash paying patient. Besides the insurance co sets the price they will pay.

If you say so, but it's in black and white right on the invoice, regardless of who sets the price. Cash price vs. insurance "discount". Then of course the insurance company will look at that bill and decide what they'll pay.

We need Affordable Care for all in the USA.

Even the disgraced members of congress have a health care plan for life,
after they resign.
for themselves.

And we wonder why insurance is not affordable or available? I think of the various spills I had over the years and am thankful I never did worst than road rash and bruises.

Whatever the facts, and whatever the relative merits of different healthcare systems, it does provide a degree of reassurance to know that if I suffered the same spill as described in the OP the cost to me at the point of being put back together again would be nothing.

I couldn't agree more. I just don't want to ignite a firestorm of politics and ideology here.

been through cancer twice dont think it's the doctors income it's the people who pay there bills pay for those who don't. One bill itemized a band aid they used on me at 40.00 dollars.So I guess I buy band aids that day for everyone who has no insurance or just don't pay.

Well, even at nearly $100,000 to put Humpty back together, that is still cheaper than bypass surgery and all the other associated costs of being sedentary. I hope the OP's friend heals well and gets back on the bike. '

Thankfully, he can't lose his insurance over this now-pre-existing condition since the Affordable Care Act began.

I posted a few months ago telling the story of my 59 yo noob riding buddy who took a spill at about 8 mph. I'm sure it looked pretty funny from a distance, and I was prepared to have a laugh at his expense..but he was in genuine pain and he got home with the bike in the back of my truck. It turned out he hit his hip pretty hard, in fact a few days later he learned he'd cracked it. The bike didn't suffer a scratch.

He told me the other day the total medical bill / insurance accounting came in. Total cost of this fall turned out to $96,000, and the core of that was putting screws in his hip. That's at inflated insurance dollars to be sure, but $96,000... I wonder why they didn't just round it up to an even $100K.

Lots of thoughts come to mind, some which are inappropriate for this board, most centering on the long-term impact of insurance companies in bed with our medical industry.

Beware.
What were his out of pocket expenses? Why didn't you put it in your OP?

I'm guessing the "$96000" was heavily discounted by the evil and heartless insurance company. Deductibles run high, so he probably paid $2500 unless he Had met his deductible. Since this was an emergency situation my guess is he had an ER copay of $100.

Sorry, when I sit in on tumor boards these days, the oncologists present two treatment options, 1) what we can do now, and 2) what the government will allow us to do in the near future. It's very depressing.


BTW, lest we get vapors about the NHS, their medical error rate runs 4 times higher than the US. If you want to track the data down, google James Reason and follow the trail.


Because this thread will very quickly go ad hominem, I'm signing off, so just save it. It will be wasted verbiage.

FWIW....the Greatest Canadian Ever is Tommy Douglas the "father" of Canadian health care. I'd be willing to bet that if someone took a poll of all the countries that have national healthcare and asked if they'd rather have the US system not one of them would.

And the fact that so many people don't pay their medical bills makes it hard on the ones that do. But our new health care will eliminate the waste.,

I fully support the new health care system. But I do not see it eliminating or even reducing waste and bad, greedy management. Actually it will be just more of the same -- it was what Americans wanted because Rupert Murdoch had convinced them the US has "THE BEST HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD"

Actually, it is slowly coming out that it is closer to #35 than #1. But, it IS the most expensive.

The one thing that it will do is enable everybody in the US to have access to health care. today, if you don't have group insurance you better have perfect health, otherwise, no insurance company will want you.

Hey Yanks ...

... Are we being laughed at by our foreign buddies ?

Nah, we don't laugh at people in worse shape than us, we try to help them.

Just saw this from a medical publisher and thought it was relevent.
Healthcare System Wasted $750 Billion in 2009, IOM SaysRobert Lowes
Authors and Disclosures (javascript:newshowcontent('active','authordisclosures');)
September 6, 2012 — An inefficient, extraordinarily complex, and slow-to-change US healthcare system wasted more than $750 billion in 2009, according to a new study (http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2012/Best-Care-at-Lower-Cost-The-Path-to-Continuously-Learning-Health-Care-in-America.aspx) from the Institute of Medicine (IOM) that calls for a drastic overhaul.




Excessive administrative costs on the part of insurers explain some of those squandered dollars, but unnecessary and inefficiently delivered services on the part of physicians, hospitals, and other providers account for the lion's share of the $750 billion, said the report, which was released online today.

This attention-grabbing statistic is reminiscent of the oft-quoted figure for deaths attributable to medical error — up to 98,000 each year — found in a 1999 IOM report titled To Err Is Human: Building a Safer Health System. That report helped spark an ongoing campaign for patient safety. The new IOM report, titled Best Care at Lower Cost: The Path to Continuously Learning Health Care in America, aims to build on the 1999 study and other blueprints for progress from the IOM.

271566

This chart is very revealing!

U.S. being the most expensive health care with some of the worst results!

FrenchFit: So sorry to read about your friend's accident but I hope is doing better.
It took me a year to feel almost normal after a similar fall with a zickel nail surgery (B on the image).
I never knew the price of the all thing--but it could not have been cheap!

http://www.jaaos.org/content/8/1/56/F7.expansion

It's all bottom line business. No matter where the money comes from (taxes, insurance, cash) the business of health care will do it's best to maximize how much it extracts. If they can't get it from you now, they will pre-screen you for chronic illness and thus convince you to be a (paying) patient for a long time.

-G

If the real cost was paid by the Insurance companies and no more- then your insurance premiums would go down.

The cost paid is agreed upon by the hospitals and the insurance companies. The major hospital corporations and health care providers are making enormous profits, as are the insurance companies. Why would they care how much they pay to the hospital under the present scenario? The hospitals are their partners in crime. Absolutely no incentive for either to change a system that is making them exceedingly wealthy.

I'll still go with a US surgeon when I need a complicated surgery.

I'll still go with a US surgeon when I need a complicated surgery.

Many people in the US would say that. Yet that same surgeon would caution you against making an assertion (any assertion) without irrefutable evidence to back it up (such as a random controlled trial). So, in essence, not even the surgeon would believe you.

But, in this case, he might make an exception because: when the quality of health care in the US is compared to other countries, the US usually ranks far down the list usually 30 or 35 from the top.

But, you also say: "when I need complicated surgery"

But how do know you need "complicated surgery"? Usually you only know that because a surgeon told you that. Asking a surgeon if you need surgery is like asking a carpenter if you need some wood work done. He is not impartial. It is how he makes his living. The more he operates the more money he makes.

And, yes, there are thousands of unnecessary medical procedures performed in the US every day.

The surgeons and physicians in the US are mostly good people who are working in a very broken system.

The surgeons and physicians in the US are mostly good people who are working in a very broken system.

That's a pretty good synopsis IMO. As I've said before in this thread, corporate propaganda and politics have pretty much "dumbed down" the US populace when it comes to health care. (not to mention a few other subjects)

If you get health care services at no cost to you then someone else is paying your bill or you are receiving medical services and the care givers are being required to give you their services. It just does not seem to me that you can receive service without paying or without having someone else pay for your service.

When it comes to taxes, every penny that I have ever paid or ever will pay went to finance just one cruise missile that was fired on Iraq.

Remember there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Remember there is no such thing as a free lunch.

No, there are no free lunches. But neither do I want to be paying $50 for a hamburger. Or, in the US system as it currently stands, 50 million Americans can't get lunch because, for them, the hamburger costs $150 and they can't afford it --- if it is even offered to them at all...

We need Affordable Care for all in the USA.

Define AFFORDABLE please. And include deductible and copay options in the pricing.

No, there are no free lunches. But neither do I want to be paying $50 for a hamburger. Or, in the US system as it currently stands, 50 million Americans can't get lunch because, for them, the hamburger costs $150 and they can't afford it --- if it is even offered to them at all...

And that's why they go to the ER to get treated where they can't be refused even if they can't pay rather than going to a GP who could treat them more efficiently and cheaper. Those 50 million americans without health insurance still can get treated, as long as they don't mind waiting forever in the ER triage and having their credit sent to hell.

The price of everything is relative. If you are in the desert without water, then price may not be your primary concern. I don't like paying more than I think that a service is worth but sometimes other people don't want to sell their services or merchandise at the price that I want to pay. At this point I have a problem, not the guy that has what I want. It would be great if everyone just loved me and would give me everything that I wanted but I don't expect others to feel this way. But if any one does just love me and want to give me things that I want please pm me and I will provide a list of my wants. Only kidding.

There is a saying that I really like that goes like this. "Don't think that you can relax yourself into be happy. Happiness is the result of doing." So I am going to go out and ride and let the results of my riding provide me some happiness. I hope that you guys get to get in a few miles today and enjoy your ride.

And that's why they go to the ER to get treated where they can't be refused even if they can't pay rather than going to a GP who could treat them more efficiently and cheaper. Those 50 million americans without health insurance still can get treated, as long as they don't mind waiting forever in the ER triage and having their credit sent to hell.

Yes, they are getting emergency care: but their illnesses like high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, and so on goes untreated because they do not have access to health care. And, part of the reason they don't have access to health care is: they have high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease and so on and no insurance company will cover them (especially not at a rate most people can afford to pay).

Anyone who supports the new health care system either hasn't read it or is terribly uneducated cause it's going to destroy small businesses. Reading just a small portion of the 2700 pages will change most opinions.

Anyone who supports the new health care system either hasn't read it or is terribly uneducated cause it's going to destroy small businesses. Reading just a small portion of the 2700 pages will change most opinions.

That, of course, is the opinion of one particular political wing and is being pushed very hard. Many small business associations, once they have had a change to study the act itself, see benefits in cost savings and flexibility. As Media Matters reports, "In particular, the law provides tax credits to make it more affordable for small businesses to provide health coverage to their employees while still allowing them the flexibility they need to compete in the economy. It also gives small businesses the choice and freedom to come together to leverage their purchasing power. Additionally, provisions in the law prevent health insurance companies from denying coverage to individuals with pre-existing conditions, which helps prevent job lock and encourages entrepreneurship. These benefits give small businesses the level playing field they need to compete."

In my own opinion the Affordable Health Care Act could be improved upon but, alas, the political battles will not soon allow that to happen.

Canadians, in general, do things much better than the US folks.
Local woman got zapped by a scorpion; her bill: $83,000!
That'll buy a lot of aspirins . . .

putting screws in his hip

I call BS. A broken hip is not a "minor spill."