Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - Ciocc frame, Columbus Cromor tubing, spiral fluting - worth price?

Going to take a look at this frame tomorrow. It has some very unique spiral fluting (never seen that before), the frame is exactly my size, so it would be perfect. Is this worth the purchase? I've read some discussions about the quality of the Columbus Cromor tubing (some say it is mid-range tubing?).

Owner is asking $650, which is a bit steep as I've seen some Ciocc frames priced around $400.

Any help would be appreciated.

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that is pretty steep for a Cromor frame, even if it is in that condition. Typically, Cromor frames sell for between $175 and $300. Cromor is "mid-range", but rides really nice in my experience and still comes in at a decent weight.

For $650, you could get a nice SLX frame or equivalent from any number of respected makers.

I think I have seen that type of spiraling on other frames here on BF. I do agree $650 seems like alot for a CroMor frame but then again you don't often see many chromed CroMor frame nor ones with the sriral treatment.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=271898&d=1347176577

+1 I would be thinking a complete Cromor bike at that price, rather than just a frameset. $650 buys quite a bit of bike, and even more on the frame market.

The thing about a complete bike, even if you are just looking for a frameset. The sale of the unwanted components will help offset the cost of the build, or if you already have the parts in hand, will help offset the price paid for the bike.

Thanks for confirming what I thought, I would expect a SLX frame to be around $600, the spiral fluting is really unique though, if he would part with it for $350-400 I think I would think about it. My other option right now is a Pinarello Montello SLX, complete bike for $900, which I think I will go for instead of the Ciocc. Any opinions on Ciocc vs Pinarello?

My opinion - that's a $200 - $250 frame...and only that high because of the name. I would buy something else at that price. I don't think a Ciocc SLX frame would sell for $650 very easily...more like $350ish.

My opinion - that's a $200 - $250 frame...and only that high because of the name. I would buy something else at that price. I don't think a Ciocc SLX frame would sell for $650 very easily...more like $350ish.

Agreed.

FWIW I've paid roughly $650 for complete SLX framed De Rosas, Tommasinis and Colnagos.

That's bicycles, not framesets!!

Cromor rides fine and that one is a beauty, but it's more than I would ever pay.

That bike looks to be in super shape. It doesn't matter what the bike is worth to anyone else but you since you're the one shelling out the cash. If it were me, I'd buy it because of how unique it is and because of the great shape it's in.

A little pricey but you can see why.It will be a beauty when it is built up and quite unique.Will it bother you to miss it?

I don't see why, it's a mid-level frame from a b-list brand with a nice paint job. At that number I'd expect a lot more.

Yah,....if the guy's asking for $650, it better be an SLX frame in similar condition or better. Only thing I know about Cromor is that it's not a top line tubeset from Columbus. What's Cromor tubing all about anyway. How different is it in alloy composition and weight compared to say, an SL tubeset??

Chombi

2 times too much

Yah,....if the guy's asking for $650, it better be an SLX frame in similar condition or better. Only thing I know about Cromor is that it's not a top line tubeset from Columbus. What's Cromor tubing all about anyway. How different is it in alloy composition and weight compared to say, an SL tubeset??

Chombi

Here is a good reference for Columbus tubing: http://equusbicycle.com/bike/columbus/columbuschart.htm

Thanks everyone for the help, I think I will try to make a reasonable offer for it, it's not SLX/SL but the frame should build up really nicely. I think the fact that it's mid-range tubing should help me negotiate.

At a guess, he's in fantasy land about having a "high end Italian" and he's too far from reality to deal with. It's pretty, and there might be someone willing to over pay, but it's a mid-range frame and it's not a top tier brand.

I'd walk on by...there are a lot of frames that sell for under $200 market I'd consider nicer.

Is it a repaint or original paint? I never knew they did cromor tubing like that let alone chromed. I honestly want to say it's not actually cromor tubing as it looks like the repop decals as details on the frame point to a SLX or even SL tubed frame...internal cable routing for rear derailleur and rear caliper, San Cristobal badge on the rear of the top tube. Maybe Cyclomondo put the wrong tubing decal in the Ciocc kit?

It is a bit pricey but looks to be repainted, new decals and the chrome looks nice or possibly rechromed. Otherwise it's a later San Cristobal replica hence the non panto'd seat stay caps. Does it have vertical or horizontal drops out as it's a sure sign if it's a replica. Replicas had vertical dropouts and panto'd seat stay caps. That's my .02

Is it a repaint or original paint? I never knew they did cromor tubing like that let alone chromed. I honestly want to say it's not actually cromor tubing as it looks like the repop decals as details on the frame point to a SLX or even SL tubed frame...internal cable routing for rear derailleur and rear caliper, San Cristobal badge on the rear of the top tube. Maybe Cyclomondo put the wrong tubing decal in the Ciocc kit?

It is a bit pricey but looks to be repainted, new decals and the chrome looks nice or possibly rechromed. Otherwise it's a later San Cristobal replica hence the non panto'd seat stay caps. Does it have vertical or horizontal drops out as it's a sure sign if it's a replica. Replicas had vertical dropouts and panto'd seat stay caps. That's my .02

Not sure about if it is a repaint, but I can't find many references online to Ciocc having Cromor tubing that was chromed or with the spiral fluting.

Here are some pics of the seat stays and the dropouts.

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If your local to it just check it out in person and look/feel into the seat and down tube through the bottom bracket to see if the tubes are rifled or not. It's just not adding up with the details on the frame.

Even assuming it is repainted SLX (and I think Henry is right), I wouldn't value it at over $400.

If your local to it just check it out in person and look/feel into the seat and down tube through the bottom bracket to see if the tubes are rifled or not. It's just not adding up with the details on the frame.

I saw it yesterday, I felt into the seat tube and down tube and the tubes were rifled inside. I did just find some references to cromor tubing with helical reinforcements in the steerer, but not in the seat post and down tube: http://equusbicycle.com/bike/columbus/columbuschart.htm

Even assuming it is repainted SLX (and I think Henry is right), I wouldn't value it at over $400.

Yeah, in some markets I think $400 would be about right for SLX, but in the my local market (along with many cities in Canada) the prices are pretty high for these Italian frames.

Does rifled mean SL?

Does rifled mean SL?
Internal helical reinforcement or "rifling" usually means SLX, although Vitus SV980 tubsets also includes a rifled head tube, IIRC.

Chombi

Too expensive, but it's soooo pretty that I could see myself paying too much. I would probably pay as much as $500 myself, which is still too much.

So it's a Ciocc San Cristobal made out of SLX tubing which was the creme da la creme of the Ciocc lineup if my memory serves me right. It's been repainted but looks to be a pretty nice repaint and the chrome is really nice. He's probably has that much if he had it rechromed and new paint and decals. I'm pretty sure those decals are from Cyclomondo as I don't believe JR's Ciocc decals at Velocals come with that style headtube decal or the "San Cristobal" globe decal.

I personally like Ciocc's because their not the standard stuff Derosa, Colnago, Pinarello..etc stuff you normally see but still very well made. If your all about originality then the repaint will push most buyers away. If you'd like a nice restored frame then this would the cat's arse...just not for the asking price. I'd pay between the 375-maybe 500 range but that'd be pushing it.