Have you been hit by a car?

[Bruce Rosar]

Lottery: a tax on people who can't do math.
Common sense: the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.

Following excerpt is from "The Dilemmas of Bicycle Planning" by Paul Schimek
http://www.massbike.org/info/dilemma.htm
1.2 Source of Danger

The idea of bicycling on streets produces fears of being struck by a motor vehicle approaching from behind. These fears stimulate a preference among the public to bicycle in areas where motor vehicles are not allowed, such as sidewalks, recreational paths, fire roads, and hiking trails. Although they can be very serious when they occur, overtaking collisions are rare, particularly in urban areas in daylight. From data collected by Cross and Fisher, Forester calculates that 85% of all car-bike collisions take place in urban areas, and 89% of these involve turning and crossing movements, and only 7 percent involve cars overtaking bicycles (Forester 1994 p. 47). More recently, researchers from the University of North Carolina's Highway Safety Research Center (HSRC) found that 8.6% of car-bicycle collisions in their sample of 3,000 from eight states involved motorist overtaking (Hunter et al. 1996). This figure includes rural areas where overtaking collisions are more common. As in the earlier data, this study also found that turning and crossing situations accounted for the vast majority (76.9%) of collisions (2).

While they are afraid of being hit from behind, novice bicyclists are insufficiently afraid of other common dangers, and often act in a way that increases these dangers. First, they are insufficiently afraid of cross traffic. Intersections are known to be the greatest source of danger--they are the areas where driver's intended paths frequently intersect. Riding on the sidewalk or in the wrong direction places the cyclist outside the flow of traffic and into positions where they are not visible or not expected. A bicyclist riding at speed on the sidewalk may suddenly appear in an intersection at the moment a motorist on the parallel roadway is turning right into a side street. In such cases the motorist has the impression that the bicyclist appeared "from nowhere." A motorist waiting at a stop sign to make a right turn looks to her left for traffic. When there is none, she will proceed to turn right--directly into the path of a wrong-way bicyclist approaching from the right. Bicycling against traffic increases accident risk by 360%, bicycling on the sidewalk increases accident risk by 180%, and bicycling the wrong way on the sidewalk increases accident risk by 430% (Wachtel and Lewiston 1994). Between one quarter and one third of all bicycle-car crashes occur when the cyclist is riding against traffic (Hunter et al. 1996; Plotkin and Kormornick 1984).

[Noif666]

I missed the poll but I just want to get my two cents worth in.
It amazes and disgusts me, not just how many intentional hits there are, but also how many hit a cyclist and then bolt as soon as they know the person is still breathing. How hard can it be to take some responsibilty for your own actions? I wonder if those cages can sleep at night knowing they potentially left an injured person, one they themselves hurt, without making sure the person got medical attention?

[closetbiker]

...comparing the risk of motoring and the risk of bicycling...The best educated guess is that for an experienced cyclist, the risk is not that different...And importantly, regularly cycling has great health benefits which will make you healthier and live longer. These benefits almost certainly outweigh any additional risk, at least for those who follow the above advice.

It's good to see that what I've been posting over and over is once again, confirmed by a knowledgeable expert in the field.

:)

[robbomann]

Without MY looking at Your location, robbo, I knew immediately that You're from California. I first thought that it/Your location be soCal, where I'm from. Add the part that You and/or the other biker were injured: AND the motorist would leave you w/o giving a da.n . That's a qualification for PURE southern California. (Even more hard-core, if he'd stolen one/both of the bikes, meantime.)


Molten, I am impressed. You know your State (our State) well. The bike collision took place on 17th avenue in Costa Mesa. I had just moved there from Riverside a few days before. The light turned green, I was clipped in so I bolted ahead and half way through the intersection 'Bam', I was hit dead center on the left side by the beach cruiser as he came flying acrossed the street. I guess the motorist, seeing that we weren't dead figured the least we could do is drag our bodies out of the way so he could complete his left turn. Welcome to Orange County!
I had nothing against the other cyclist; he apologized, and I should have looked both ways before proceeding.The attitude of the motorist on the other hand was (is) typical of so many people towards cyclists not just in SoCal but up here in our area too. "Get outta my way" should be our State motto on the new quarter.

[melodybliss]

Though I've never been hit by a car, I've hit a bicyclist while I was driving my truck.

A man with his daughter and wife were riding on the sidewalk against traffic at night. No lights on any of the bikes _and_ they were wearing dark clothing. I pulled into the parking lot and my headlights suddenly illuminated the man's bike. I slammed on my brakes just as his daughter was moving in front of my truck. She had to throw herself off of her bike to keep from being hit by me.

Luckily she was ok. Her bike was also ok, but I was seriously freaked out. Way too freaked to get pissed at her father for the way they were riding. I can't avoid you if I can't see you. *sigh*

Mel

[genec]

There is no reason to be frightened. You can see by the experiences here, that being hit does not always mean you are going to be seriously injured.

A study I read about car bike accidents in my province showed that the most common result in a car bike accident was no injury at all. A majority of times an injury was only minor.


Of course the other side of the coin is that those who are dead, cannot post here... :eek:

Gotta watch those "statistics."

[closetbiker]

Of course the other side of the coin is that those who are dead, cannot post here... :eek:

You can try this thread for those who have died,

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=84488


Gotta watch those "statistics."


Gee, I guess, "a majority of times" and the "most common result" counts as "statistics" now?

[genec]

You can try this thread for those who have died,

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=84488


Gee, I guess, "a majority of times" and the "most common result" counts as "statistics" now?


Uh yeah... sure, that thread is a true representation of the dead... Just as "I just didn't see the cyclist" is a true representation of what really happens.

And yes, "a majority of times," and "most common result" count as a "statistic."
(as long as they are all in quotes)


:rolleyes:

[molten]

My point in bringing this type of accident up is that while there are certainly many crashes (I want to say most) that are the drivers fault, we as bikers need to be responsible for our actions. Relying on a driver to do what you want, to read your mind, where your physical being is concerned, is just nutty.[/QUOTE] But the trouble == that's how many bikers are NOT. (Because most bikers are simply off-duty car drivers; applying some fraction of their car-driving personality during the biking. That includes others physical athletes, too. Like joggers, etc.)

[closetbiker]

yes, "a majority of times," and "most common result" count as a "statistic."
(as long as they are all in quotes)


:rolleyes:

I don't think I did put them in quotes, so they don't count as statistics?

If you "gotta watch" statistics, would it be better to base an opinion on something to "guess" or "feel" something is true or not, or to use statistics to help understand the situation?

[velocity]

My point in bringing this type of accident up is that while there are certainly many crashes (I want to say most) that are the drivers fault, we as bikers need to be responsible for our actions. Relying on a driver to do what you want, to read your mind, where your physical being is concerned, is just nutty.
A True Story: a friend and I were on a ride and we were nearing a area where both of us would go
"A Zone" sprinting to a light that always seemed to change on us. This day was no different and while the light was still green it took a 30 second sprint to get through it in time before the light changed and the opposite trafffic would proceed.
A old Ford truck had parked on the side of the road along side the curb that was in the on coming lane of the left hand turn just through the light that we always ran. That day was going to be the last time I turned that corner at speed becuase as I turned left after the light (being delighted to have made it through it again) I looked over to my friend in triumph and ran head long into that stationary truck with the driver still behind the wheel :eek: -Yes I hit the parked car on my old school Nashiki. Though I live to tell about it and revel in my voice to always wear your helmet it is indeed not always the driver of the cars fault.

The names of the bicycles and vechicles involved have been changed to protect the innocent. No unauthorized duplications of the facts herein may be used without the prior authorization of the BTA and all such revenue from film/book release is to be divided equally amongst the poor -including me :p
Velocity

[nycm'er]

Well, you say that about us bikers. making those of Us guilty before anything is proven. What about those pedestrians? They are continously abusing it. Crosing the streets. In front of motor vehicles AND ME/MY BIKE. They ENJOY looking for trouble; I'm just waiting to see one failing his/her abuse in this "right-of-way." In which that person will get run over by a motor vehicle. And once that happens, I will laugh, as I pass by on My bike.

??????

Go look up 'responsibility' and 'guilt' and figure out what I said.
Before you start laughing at a car struck, wounded Ped.- no matter how annoying they are for their jaywalking, I suggest you make sure it is not someone you know or care about.

[genec]

I don't think I did put them in quotes, so they don't count as statistics?

If you "gotta watch" statistics, would it be better to base an opinion on something to "guess" or "feel" something is true or not, or to use statistics to help understand the situation?

No, but I put "statistics" in quotes in my original response. My comment was based on the lack of true scientific method in this poll, and and the fact that a portion of those "hit by a car" may not be able to respond... therefore any "statistics" derived from this poll are slanted in spite of the control group of "never been hit."

[closetbiker]

No, but I put "statistics" in quotes in my original response. My comment was based on the lack of true scientific method in this poll, and and the fact that a portion of those "hit by a car" may not be able to respond... therefore any "statistics" derived from this poll are slanted in spite of the control group of "never been hit."

I don't think anyone here will think this poll is scientific or that portions of people who have been hit or never been hit will be able to respond thereby rendering the poll slanted. For a better look at "hits" you have to look elsewhere.

The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia has collision reports for all traffic accidents for a better idea of the scope of how many have been "hit by cars".

In 2002, there were 47,653 collisions, but only 42% of those resulted in injuries. Drivers, passengers and motorcycle drivers received 86.9% of those injuries. Pedestrians received 9.7% (2,846) of the injuries and cyclists received 1.3% of the injuries (387 victims). People "hanging on" to vehicles received .86% (252) of the injuries.

It's always a challenge to figure out the proportion of each group on the road at any given time but it's interesting to know, Statistics Canada has BC cycle commutters averaged at 2% of all traffic in BC, and the cyclist victims mentioned by ICBC include all cyclists. Commuter cyclists are only a part of that total. I would wonder how many people "hang on" to cars. Couldn't be too many, much less than those who cycle but the numbers of victims are pretty close.

All in all I'd have to say the large majority of those that have been hit and hurt by cars have been drivers and passengers of cars. It's a reletively rare occurrance for cyclists to be hit (let alone hurt)

[genec]

I don't think anyone here will think this poll is scientific or that portions of people who have been hit or never been hit will be able to respond thereby rendering the poll slanted. For a better look at "hits" you have to look elsewhere.

The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia has collision reports for all traffic accidents for a better idea of the scope of how many have been "hit by cars".

In 2002, there were 47,653 collisions, but only 42% of those resulted in injuries. Drivers, passengers and motorcycle drivers received 86.9% of those injuries. Pedestrians received 9.7% (2,846) of the injuries and cyclists received 1.3% of the injuries (387 victims). People "hanging on" to vehicles received .86% (252) of the injuries.

It's always a challenge to figure out the proportion of each group on the road at any given time but it's interesting to know, Statistics Canada has BC cycle commutters averaged at 2% of all traffic in BC, and the cyclist victims mentioned by ICBC include all cyclists. Commuter cyclists are only a part of that total. I would wonder how many people "hang on" to cars. Couldn't be too many, much less than those who cycle but the numbers of victims are pretty close.

All in all I'd have to say the large majority of those that have been hit and hurt by cars have been drivers and passengers of cars. It's a reletively rare occurrance for cyclists to be hit (let alone hurt)


What about the cyclists that don't report their injuries, or are hit and have damage to the bike, and don't report.

Those statistics are only based on what? Reporting to insurance companies? or police reports?

The sad fact is that many bike accidents are not reported, such as the case where a cyclist is bumped and receives only scratches... they were hit, none the less. Or what about the case described in this topic involving two cyclists...

[Helmet-Head]

What about the cyclists that don't report their injuries, or are hit and have damage to the bike, and don't report.
So now you're trying to focus on the rocks you can't even see.

[Vision-]

What about the cyclists that don't report their injuries, or are hit and have damage to the bike, and don't report.

Those statistics are only based on what? Reporting to insurance companies? or police reports?


...or what about collisions with woodland creatures? Rabbits and badgers rarely carry collision insurance, and moose are notorious for leaving the scene of an accident. :mad:

[closetbiker]

So now you're trying to focus on the rocks you can't even see.

Yeah, it's amazing that people base fears on things that aren't even clear. I'm sure there are accidents that aren't reported, but no one can guess how common those are. We can guess that they wouldn't be serious enough to report or a doctor, hospital or insurance company because there would be a report of it.

Macleans Magazine ran an article "THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT THE BAD NEWS - SARS, West Nile, Mad Cow--yes, it's tough out there, but we're making progress." it said:

Our range of terrors is as boundless as our imagination. Some, like the
abhorrence of snakes, spiders, or heights, are seemingly innate and
almost universal. Others are learned and absorbed from the pain we
see and share, shaped by our individual experiences and brushes with
mortality. Fear is the primal human emotion.
Given the central role that worry plays in our lives, the odd thing is how
poor a job we do in assessing the risks that most of us actually face on
a day-to-day basis. We obsess about remote dangers and are morbidly
fascinated with gruesome ends, ignoring the mundane hazards that
claim the most victims.

ICBC is the provincial insurer for all motor vehichles in the province. They work in tandem with the police, motor vehicle branch, driver training, licencing and hospitals. If there was an incident whan a cyclist was hit by a car, ICBC would know all about it.

[genec]

...or what about collisions with woodland creatures? Rabbits and badgers rarely carry collision insurance, and moose are notorious for leaving the scene of an accident. :mad:

Well let's get those woodland creatures to comply, darn it...

;)

[Mars]

Our range of terrors is as boundless as our imagination. Some, like the
abhorrence of snakes, spiders, or heights, are seemingly innate and
almost universal. Others are learned and absorbed from the pain we
see and share, shaped by our individual experiences and brushes with
mortality. Fear is the primal human emotion.
Given the central role that worry plays in our lives, the odd thing is how
poor a job we do in assessing the risks that most of us actually face on
a day-to-day basis. We obsess about remote dangers and are morbidly
fascinated with gruesome ends, ignoring the mundane hazards that
claim the most victims.


Very true. My wife is petrified of commercial flying but rock climbs and smokes. :rolleyes:

[Metro]

I have never been hit, but came darn near having "one wheel in the grave and one wheel on the banana peel." I was on an organized ride (Princeton Annual Event) last year on a country road surrounded by corn fields and live stock. The road was narrow and kinda busy and the riders in front of me were sort of all over the road (riding three abreast while chatting and such). After a while I grew tired of yelling "Car Back" because these guys were like livestock, they never moved. Meanwhile, I was on the shoulder just left of the painted line (too much debris in the emergency stop lane). Granted, there was plenty of room on my left for auto drivers to pass safely without slowing down.

Before I realized it, I experienced a "WHOOOOSSSSSSSSSHHHH...." as a semi, hauling a trailer doing maybe 80 passed just inches from my left shoulder. I was startled and started to drift into his wake, when I saw that there was still the trailer section still passing me. The wake of his pass left me wobbling on the road. Miraculously, I was able to remain upright and cruise along until I could find my wit. To my suprise I began to shake from the suprise of it all. Apparantly this guy was tired of us all over the road and thought he would teach us all a lesson.

Gee. You would expect "professional" drivers to take extra precautions. I have had to wave people on who slowed to my speed, just off my hip where I could not see them (they were so cautious that they made me nervous). But, this guy left an indullible impression in my mind. I was almost drawn under his wheels! I would have never known what hit me. I never even heard him approach.

I have never told this one to my wife (and never will). She will never let me ride again.

[Metro]

RE: Woodland creatures,

Actually the woodland creatures work for Geico Insurance :)

I have seen squirrel hopping accross the road in front of me only to discover my presence and scamper back accross my path. sSome have even tried to "spoke jump" a moving bike. I learned to make noises early on to get a more predictible reaction from him. I have even seen deer on the road side. Noises cause "Bambee" to skurry back into the woods rather than start out in front of you.

Dogs are another story. Full water bottle squirt in the face. Drop an old shop rag when fido gets close (he chases rag giving you a chance to sprint away). At first sight, simply sprint for it if you are on a downhill, or worse scenario stop, get off your bike and place your precious Serotta or Madone 5.9 betweeen you and the beast (hope he does not eat your cranks). Most dogs are territorial and simply want to defend his/her borders, but there are exceptions to the rule.

[closetbiker]

Very true. My wife is petrified of commercial flying but rock climbs and smokes. :rolleyes:

Yes. Many people live sedentary lives and get about by automobile instead of riding bicycles.
:D

[Matt Gaunt]

I totally agree that this is a problem. I have been cleared off my bike on a couple of occasions, one was my fault (didn't look before pulling out, car tagged me) and the other was not (car forced me into a pavement, bike caught the kerb and threw me into the tarmac - still got scars, was travelling FAST downhill). If it's my fault, fair enough, no problem. I apologise to the driver. Therefore, I expect a driver to apologise to me and make sure I'm ok if it's their fault.

[Metro]

My "near miss with a semi"-event was not my fault. I was in the optimum riding position just off the shoulder. It was the other cyclists who were at fault, but I was the one who felt his wrath. (why me?). Oh well, another war story to tell my grand kids. (Back in 1945 I was in the big war sonny. he he he.)

[Bruce Rosar]

My "near miss with a semi"-event was not my fault. I was in the optimum riding position just off the shoulder.

While there are (in theory 8-) an infinite number of possible positions between lane lines, someone who's traveling along in a marked lane only has to (i.e., must) consider two; the "primary position", and optionally the "secondary position". Tom Revay waxed eloquently about the subject on the massbike list http://list.massbike.org/archive/200002/0174.html some years ago:

The sense of entitlement of some drivers, and their denial of others' ordinary civil rights to the public way is astonishing.

In England, a cycling expert named John Franklin published a really good book on vehicular cycling. It's called "Cyclecraft," and it's published by the Stationer's Office (equivalent to the US Gummint Publications office). You can buy it from Amazon...

Franklin talks about "primary" and "secondary" lane positions. Primary position is in the middle of the lane, and it's where he advises cyclists to ride, unless they're on busy roads where the other traffic moves faster than the cyclist and safe passing room [within the lane] exists. At those places, the cyclist assumes secondary position, which is closer to the road edge. In some situations, such as approaching intersections when you're going straight ahead, he'll advise primary position, regardless. This is also what Effective Cycling teaches about lane positioning.

However, a lot of time in EC classes is spent telling American cyclists that they don't have to squeeze out of the way of every motorist out there, and that they have as much right to the road as anyone.

Tom Revay

Bruce "primarily positioned" Rosar

[bkrownd]

The most important thing to learn from this thread: empty your bladder before riding! You don't want to be laying in the road knocked out and pissing yourself while a crowd gathers.

[geeklpc1985]

Well I have been hit by a car, but wasn't on the bike, in my high school parking lot. But I have been force off the road by cars like into a pot hole and being sent over the handle bars.