Bicycle Mechanics - building bikes and selling them as side cash flow

hey, wondering if its worth sticking with this idea of building up bikes from cheap craigslist transactions and selling them to commuters/college students. Has anyone here had much success doing this?

I don't know much about building bikes right now, I'm about to get started on my first build. Wondering if this might be a decent way to support my bike habit.

Done a bit of that but these days I usually just end up giving them away to people in need of wheels who are short on cash.
It gives me a nice case of the warm squshies.

That's what roughly half of the sellers of bikes on Craigslist are doing...

...after a week the new owners end up taking 'em to a shop and spending another 50.00 to a 100.00 getting 'em fixed right anyway.

Join the crowd...

=8-)

I don't know much about building bikes right now, I'm about to get started on my first build.
Do several of these and then the answer should be more obvious. The question isn't CAN it be done, yes it can. The real question is do YOU have the expertise and skill to do it.

I've been doing it for about 5 years now. Good news: My profit on a bike is usually between $100 to $140 per bike. Bad news: Finding bikes that I can make that kind of profit on is rare. I've been burned by buying a cheap bike in bad condition. Losing money due to a surprise happens. When it does, you lose. If it wasn't for cheap swapmeet parts & tires, the profit margin would be disaster.

More bad news: My return per hour spent fixing up a bike is about $6-$8. I have to assume I'll be running into some of my buyers eventually. I want them to greet me fondly. That's the standard I try to deliver. I've spent about $150 on special tools.

I enjoy the work. More entertaining than cable TV. Made a few thousand bucks over the years. It's not the road to riches.

makes sense.

usually between $100 to $140 per bike. I've spent about $150 on special tools.

That is actually a very quick return on tools, all things considered

That is actually a very quick return on tools, all things considered
Well, yes if all the profit is applied to tool payoff and none is applied to paying for your time.

I flip bikes ocassionally making anywhere from $40-$125 profit each, but for the amount of work put in, I would call it a self-sustaining hobby (offsetting the cost of building bikes for my personal or family use) not a sideline business. If I figured out the income per hour it produces I'd probably be better off taking the night shift at McDonalds. I find working on bikes theraputic and its rewarding to provide reasonably priced, reliable commuters for people who need them but there is no way I'd rely on it to pay the bills.

You should browse the Classics and Vintage forum as well as read the "Bike Flipping 101" thread in the Classic and Vintage Appraisal forum, lots of people do it and it is probably what more than half of the folks are doing on CL.

I started doing it about 8 years ago and it can be lucrative but I think it would be impossible to live off of it. If you have a good eye, you can make some good money for funding future bike projects. I keep in mind all of my past profits when I buy a new bike or a set of fancy wheels ;)

im a pro wrench and select my flip bikes carefully. usually just get the bikes for free. i don't do much side line work

That is actually a very quick return on tools, all things considered

I flunked accounting. The tools are considered part of my hobby. It's a hobby with a payout, just don't do the math to closely.

I do a few.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Since I'm retired, it's part hobby, but when you turn your hobby into a job, you ruin a hobby.
Someday, I hope to profit enough to pay for my tools, except when I get halfway close, I buy more tools.
I do some amount of free work for friends & their kids.
In all, I maybe make $2/hour after deducting the box store mistakes I tried to flip.

Unless you have a good amount of experience and knowledge you will likely be in the position of those above who have made money but not much per hour. The mere fact that you refer to "building bikes" to sell tells me you are in the less experienced category. Due to paying retail for parts the best way to make money is to acquire bikes that need mainly reconditioning and adjustment, rather than rebuilding. Adjusting a hub takes a couple minutes. Overhauling a hub for many people can take 20-30 minutes, including an allowance for the time getting parts. Most buyers will not pay that much more for an overhauled hub. One bad hub means you have to get a wheel - more cost. The other problem is that a novice mechanic will often spend much time with trial and error trying to figure out a problem, which is why you see someone spending too much time per bike. Hopefully Merkel made a math error above, but spending well over 10 hours per bike ($100 per bike/$8 per hr) is excessive. A good mechanic can do a very thorough complete overhaul in half that time.

Craigslist is also a poor place to pick up bikes. As noted many are trying to turn a profit, others overestimate what their bike (or any item) is worth. I would suggest you try things out by first getting bikes at garage sales that are rideable as-is but have loose brakes, somewhat out of true wheels, etc - perhaps even some mud, but NO significant rust. See if you can turn them around at a decent return per hour.

In my time estimate, I add time spent buying parts, test riding and re-adjusting. 10 hours is the figure for a strip down to bare frame and re-assemble to best riding condition. Of the last two bikes I acquired, one was $15, one was free. Neither had been ridden in 30 years. Both had the original tires complete with tire tits. These are the most desirable.

Got a good idea what kind of return I can get for a bike. I'm only doing about 6 bikes a year now.

Both had the original tires complete with tire tits. These are the most desirable.

"Tire tits"? Is that the name for the little straggly rubber mold stringies on new tires? If my wife had "tire tits", I would not find that desirable.

don't know much about building bikes right now, I'm about to get started on my first build. Wondering if this might be a decent way to support my bike habit.

one thing , in order to get the parts you need at other than just buying them at Retail ,
you have to present a Business License to the distributors..


If UMassAm is an indication of location ,
students abandon bikes when their Graduation
has them not needing them and its a bother to take them home.

so Get in sync with Campus security,
they likely cut locks to clear the racks of abandoned bikes
at the end of the school year.

one thing , in order to get the parts you need at other than just buying them at Retail ,
you have to present a Business License to the distributors..

Even then most distributors want to see a brick and mortar store front...Seattle Bike Supply seems to be an exception.

=8-)

More bad news: My return per hour spent fixing up a bike is about $6-$8.

Wow! You're making twice / hour more than me! Honestly, this is NO way to make money on the side. It's probably better to deliver pizzas!

Wow! You're making twice / hour more than me! Honestly, this is NO way to make money on the side. It's probably better to deliver pizzas!

It's a hobby with benefits. I'm not going for speed of production. The Merkel pride insists on quality.

Just went and looked at three bikes for $60 the lot. At one time, I would have bought them. One was a women's 3 speed, brand unknown, a Fuji folding mountain bike, and a pseudo-Schwinn 80s vintage mountain bike. All were heavily rusted in spots. Components were missing or sun rotted. $20 for the lot would be generous. I'm passing.

The 3-speed could be a cool restoration project. As a money-maker, no. The Schwinn MTB could bring 80-90 bucks after spending about $40-$50 on parts at minimum. The Fuji was a loser.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/3240165118.html

Here is an example of what one can do with not even dedicated searching or much labor. I had a budget for a touring bike that was less than what I needed to cover the cost of a new one. So I bought a Trek touring bike on one of the more obscure bike forums, and in spite of assurances from the seller the frame was larger than advertised. So I took off the fenders, computer and racks and the Brooks B-17 saddle, easily sold the bike, the saddle and the rack for a total of $120 more than I paid.

Then I found a C'dale road bike with a great saddle at a garage sale for $90. I replaced the saddle tuned it up, cleaned it and put on new tires, sold for $175.

I ended up with $200 extra for the Novara Randonee I wanted along with a saddle, computer and front and rear touring racks.

If you want to make the most money it's actually easier getting a higher quality bike that's in fairly good shape and paying more initially, rather than getting a beat up one at a "bargain" price and then putting in large amounts of time and money. People often sell good bikes that need work, or that they need to sell quickly, at a relative bargain price, but the same bike in great condition can sell for quite a bit more. One will also attract a lot more attention if known for having a line on quality bikes than if you're just another person selling run-of-the-mill ones.

For those bike geeks in or near a college town, probably the potential benefits of tuning or selling bikes to some of the students has benefits beyond the strickly monetary ones!

For those bike geeks in or near a college town, probably the potential benefits of tuning or selling bikes to some of the students has benefits beyond the strickly monetary ones!

Yes it does, it allows LBS mechanics to work on their "good guy" / "bad guy" routine.

Scene: Poorly scrapped together "works like new!" Craigslist bike comes in with a brand new but incorrectly installed dual-pivot brake post purchase.

Girl: (Quietly awaits...)

Mean Mechanic: Your boyfriend did a poor job of routing the housing, placing the serrated washer, and adjusting the pivot balance.

Nice Mechanic: Hey dude! Be nice, her boyfriend was just being nice and all doing here a favor. Give him a break!

Girl: (Rolls her eyes with a smile.) Thanks guys, appreciate whatever you can do for me....


=8-)

I forget what I was going to say, now

It's a great way to fund your hobby/passion. It keeps me in pocket cash I am a perfectionist so repairs take me FAR longer than a pro. If I computed my my hourly wage I would do fat better delivering pizzas. I prefer to try and flip nicer bikes and steer clear of the low end. I leave that to my neighbor who is like a used car dealer and will flip a $5 dollar bike for $30 after painting the tires with flat black paint! He is a HACK mechanic and brings me the ones he can't fix. [He has also broken my tools]

I was fortunate to buy a small bike shop inventory tools and stand that went out of business a few years back.. I am still working off those parts. I have made that investment back five times over NOT COUNTING LABOR. As mentioned above go to C&V.

Everything has been pretty well covered here. Its a hobby that can generate cash if your costs are low. I usually take every free bike that rolls my way as even mountain bikes have good parts. I have put ugly but great condition tires on bike because they are free. As also stated, it depends on the type of person you are. If you are a perfectionist on bikes, you'll never make a dime...spending any money on a used lower end bike will get you no where. A large volume of bikes builds up your good part supply and you can pretty much replace anything if you get enough parts bikes.

I personally only sell bikes I would ride myself or give to one of my kids, but beyond that, I've stopped polishing wheels as most folks in my market don't care. My bikes are tuned and safe and range from $40 to $100 depending on condition. You will learn when to give up and part out a bike vs. trying to fix it. That is something experience will teach you.

I also sell kids bikes...often they don't need much and I let them go pretty much for $5 or $10 dollars...good experience and also good exposure providing inexpensive but safe rides to kids who may or may not have a bike otherwise. Sometimes their parents are just cheap.

I picked up a Specialized Ground Control full suspension bike for $20.00 last night. It's one of the first FS mountain bikes. Needs a front wheel & seat. I'll post costs, time spent including drive time for pick-up. Let's see what return we get.

I picked up a Specialized Ground Control full suspension bike for $20.00 last night. It's one of the first FS mountain bikes. Needs a front wheel & seat. I'll post costs, time spent including drive time for pick-up. Let's see what return we get.

I had one as my first MTB. It was a total tank, weight about 34lbs. I still loved it, and rode it on all manner of trails until I wised up.

It's a great way to fund your hobby/passion. It keeps me in pocket cash I am a perfectionist so repairs take me FAR longer than a pro. If I computed my my hourly wage I would do fat better delivering pizzas. I prefer to try and flip nicer bikes and steer clear of the low end. I leave that to my neighbor who is like a used car dealer and will flip a $5 dollar bike for $30 after painting the tires with flat black paint! He is a HACK mechanic and brings me the ones he can't fix. [He has also broken my tools]

I was fortunate to buy a small bike shop inventory tools and stand that went out of business a few years back.. I am still working off those parts. I have made that investment back five times over NOT COUNTING LABOR. As mentioned above go to C&V.


You nailed it.

No longer having to actually run a shop is quite liberating and I can take all the time I need to do everything just right.
It pays for my hobby and transportation.
Keeps me out of pool halls.
Most of my refurb bikes come from yard sales and recycling centers and I sometimes hit the jackpot on a real nice saddle or other part that ends up on one of my "keepers."
It allows me to give perfectly serviceable bikes bikes away to people in need and/or their kids sometimes and there is no better feeling than you get from seeing those smiles. :)

I picked up a Specialized Ground Control full suspension bike for $20.00 last night. It's one of the first FS mountain bikes. Needs a front wheel & seat. I'll post costs, time spent including drive time for pick-up. Let's see what return we get.

Quoting myself.....

The Ground Control ended up having a stuck seat post & a trashed front fork. Got the seat tube out after soaking it in WD-40 and whacking it with the sawed-off pickaxe handle that is one of my favorite tools. The fork could be rebuilt with about $60 worth of parts. Bought one off Craigslist for $20.00. I had a spare front rim, so the bike is almost rideable. Found a replacement seat in the junk pile. it's not pretty, but it'll do. Needed pedals to replace the SPDs. So...

Drivetime= 2 hours
Shopping for bits= 1 hour
Actual working time= 5 hours
Total= 8 hours
Still needs final tuning. With luck, that's 1 hour

Bike= $20
Gas= est. $8
Pedals= $10
Fork= $20
New front tube= $7
Total= $65

Not counting supplies or parts on hand. A new front wheel would cost $20-$25.00 with luck. I'm trying to maximize profit, so no new tires, grips, or seat. Going cheap, that would add $35-$45.

I'm trying to get about $250. It's a nice looking bike, but obsolete FS bikes aren't in big demand.

You might find this related story interesting/amusing...

http://www.trholme.com/BikeBus/bikebus_history1.htm

I've been doing this for a couple of years as a paying hobby. I'm not sure if it's much different to the States, but here in the U.K. you would have to put in a hell of a lot of effort to make it a real income, and even then you'll be lucky to make minimum wage. As a hobby I don't mind if I make the occasional loss as long as the balance sheet is on the plus side overall, but the important thing is that I enjoy it, and have the skills to do a decent job.
My biggest returns are in tip finds i.e. bikes that have been sent to the recycling dump. I know the staff at a local tip and they let me have any when I pass by. In fact my favourite keeper, a Marin Team Issue complete with Cook RSR chainset, disc brakes, Hope hubs on Shimano ceramic rims, cost me nothing that way.

You might find this related story interesting/amusing...

http://www.trholme.com/BikeBus/bikebus_history1.htm

What a cool link. If I keep any more bikes, I just might end up living in a bus.

"Wondering if this might be a decent way to support my bike habit."

Could be. You'd probably want to tune bikes for people as well. Not having any background though, it's going to be rough going for a few months. From what I'm reading here it's also going to take several months to build up enough cash to feed your habit with some cool new bike, or bike upgrades. What do you want out of it? Might be more practical to take on a second job with regular pay, unless you plan on opening a bike shop at some point in time and want the experience.

You can also make fun with it. I get more stuff that runs though my shop now. Here is my delivery vehicle, a little tikes trailer converted to a bike hauler. Needs a bit of a longer tongue but when you deliver a fixed bike on a bike trailer hauled by a bike, you get noticed, that sends word of mouth, and things go from there. The kickstand makes the bike/trailer combo more stable for loading/unloading.

http://www.butchthecat.com/butch/trailer.jpg

That is AWESOME!

And then there's this (http://transportationnation.org/2012/02/17/need-to-move-how-about-bike-movers/)...

The Ground Control ended up having a stuck seat post & a trashed front fork. Got the seat tube out after soaking it in WD-40 and whacking it with the sawed-off pickaxe handle that is one of my favorite tools. The fork could be rebuilt with about $60 worth of parts. Bought one off Craigslist for $20.00. I had a spare front rim, so the bike is almost rideable. Found a replacement seat in the junk pile. it's not pretty, but it'll do. Needed pedals to replace the SPDs. So...

Drivetime= 2 hours
Shopping for bits= 1 hour
Actual working time= 5 hours
Total= 8 hours
Still needs final tuning. With luck, that's 1 hour

Bike= $20
Gas= est. $8
Pedals= $10
Fork= $20
New front tube= $7
Total= $65

Not counting supplies or parts on hand. A new front wheel would cost $20-$25.00 with luck. I'm trying to maximize profit, so no new tires, grips, or seat. Going cheap, that would add $35-$45.

I'm trying to get about $250. It's a nice looking bike, but obsolete FS bikes aren't in big demand.

Resurrecting an old thread. I sold the Specialized today after it being on Craigslist for a month. Not a good time of year to be selling bikes. I rode it around on & off road. Not a bad bike. I listed it at $240. I really didn't think it was worth $240.00, just fishing for a bite. I met the buyer & his dad at the local supermarket parking lot. He offered $200 and I took it. Storage space is at a premium and cash is king. Good kid, think he'll enjoy the Ground Control. I reminded him that he is free to sell it at anytime. $135 profit. I probably had about 10 hours labor in it. It's a hobby that supports itself.

Having worked in a bike shop does have its advantages when it comes to doing up a beat-up old bike. First, you can get new parts at trade price (or some may call it wholesale price).

Then there is always the old parts box. These are usually discarded old parts that customers do not want. Anything from brake levers, brakes, shifters, grips, handlebars, etc are all in there. And because most parts are sold as a set, so if a customer broke his shifters, he would need to get a new pair, both front and rear shifters. The old ones may be salvaged for parts, like the odd sized allen screws, etc. So if you are fixing up a bike you could use a Deore left shifters with a Deore XT right shifters, it may not look nice but it works.

Many ppl would discard their old parts when they put new ones on their bikes. Sometimes there is nothing wrong with the old parts, like when they upgrade to 10 speed cassette and chains, they do not want their old 9 speed ones. A little clean up with degreaser and they could be mounted on my old bike. Best of all they are FREE.

As for the old bikes, sometimes I get them at nominal costs, anything from $20 to $100 depending on the brand and their condition. Working on old bikes is gratifying...because by switching parts and a bit of clean-up and paint, you could turn a clunker into a rideable bike that someone is willing to pay hundreds of dollars.

$135 profit.

Good job on the sale and profit. Hopefully you learned a little bit wrenching on the thing. It's cool that you brought a dead bike back to life. I'm sure the new owner is very happy with his purchase as well.

So...

What's the next bike to flip?

"I leave that to my neighbor who is like a used car dealer and will flip a $5 dollar bike for $30 after painting the tires with flat black paint! He is a HACK mechanic and brings me the ones he can't fix. [He has also broken my tools]"

classic!

Good job on the sale and profit. Hopefully you learned a little bit wrenching on the thing. It's cool that you brought a dead bike back to life. I'm sure the new owner is very happy with his purchase as well.

So...

What's the next bike to flip?

This is about the 20th bike I've flipped. I really wanted to keep it. Never had a full suspension bike before. Can't keep them all. $13.50 per hour + fun riding time = decent return.

Next up is Raleigh mixte I bought for the crankset. There's an extra mountain triple in the junk pile that'll be used on the Raleigh. Won't get a great return on it. It's not in the best of shape but I needed a road crank.

hey, wondering if its worth sticking with this idea of building up bikes from cheap craigslist transactions and selling them to commuters/college students. Has anyone here had much success doing this?

I don't know much about building bikes right now, I'm about to get started on my first build. Wondering if this might be a decent way to support my bike habit.

I spend a lot of time with lawyers. The last time I mentioned that I was helping out someone with bike repair issues, the lawyer I was having lunch with to nearly choked. He said that there are so many liability issues and risks involved with this, that if I have any assets at all (house, car, pension plan, investments) that there is no way I should touch someone else's bike. Or even offer advice. Point taken. Careful: if you are fixing up a bike for an idiot, and that idiot rides the bike into a lamppost, or ignores the most obvious signs of mechanical problems, you could find yourself engaged in a multi-year legal war of attrition that could strip you clean of everything. For a few potential $ of profit.

This was coming from someone who was billing $500 per hour. That is the other issue: what is your time worth?

If lawyers ran the world, no one would do anything. It sounds like I can sell a junk bike that I'm completely ignorant about, but not one that has been repaired in any way by me. Nuckin' Futs.

I once talked with a lawyer about installing an alarm system in their office. It was a husband & wife team. They never asked about the alarm system. We had to go over the contract line by line. They wanted me to right up a whole new contract with language that they would approve after careful study. I laughed in their faces and walked out. No reputable company would do that. No disreputable company either it turns out. When they called again I refused to do business with them.

Wondering if this might be a decent way to support my bike habit.

IMO you'd do a lot better buying new bikes, stripping them down and selling the parts.

I flip bikes ocassionally making anywhere from $40-$125 profit each, but for the amount of work put in, I would call it a self-sustaining hobby (offsetting the cost of building bikes for my personal or family use) not a sideline business. If I figured out the income per hour it produces I'd probably be better off taking the night shift at McDonalds. I find working on bikes theraputic and its rewarding to provide reasonably priced, reliable commuters for people who need them but there is no way I'd rely on it to pay the bills.

Applies to me as well !

Start at the finish.

How much do you think that you can sell a used bicycle for?
1. You have to acquire the bike and any replacement parts for less than that in order to make any money.
2. You have to find a buyer.

Start at the finish.

How much do you think that you can sell a used bicycle for?
1. You have to acquire the bike and any replacement parts for less than that in order to make any money.
2. You have to find a buyer.

All of my buyers have come from Craigslist. Post a good description and picture, they will come. In my area, $200 seems to be the magic Craigslist number. Above this, sales slow way down. I shoot for $100 profit. My average after a few years is a little over. Makes it worth doing. When I buy a bike, it has to be in the $20-$40 range and in decent shape. Tires, paint, and seat are what the non-enthusiast are most concerned with. I had a hard time selling a nice Bridgestone MB-6 because of badly chipped paint. The buyer brought a knowledgeable friend along to check it out. I could overhear them. Buyer kept harping on the paint, friend finally said "shut up and buy the damn bike!". It was a small and a really nice commuter bike.

Maybe some folks can't wrap their heads around a hobby that nets you about $10 an hour. Some don't need the money. The money I made from the Ground Control mentioned earlier bought a few bags of groceries and fattened up the motorcycle fund a little more.

Yes it does, it allows LBS mechanics to work on their "good guy" / "bad guy" routine.

Scene: Poorly scrapped together "works like new!" Craigslist bike comes in with a brand new but incorrectly installed dual-pivot brake post purchase.

Girl: (Quietly awaits...)

Mean Mechanic: Your boyfriend did a poor job of routing the housing, placing the serrated washer, and adjusting the pivot balance.

Nice Mechanic: Hey dude! Be nice, her boyfriend was just being nice and all doing here a favor. Give him a break!

Girl: (Rolls her eyes with a smile.) Thanks guys, appreciate whatever you can do for me....


=8-)

But the girl might reply: "I'm not seeing anyone right now..."

And then it might be time to offer her the "chicken burrito" treatment on a full out tune-up. (cf. "Battleship 2012 movie").

you have to present a Business License to the distributors

and proof of liability insurance*; local (city, county) and/or state resale tax certificate(s); photos of retail location; business phone; business banking account, etc. And you should include the profits on your income taxes.

*Without this, make a mistake and get someone hurt or just be implicated in the cause of the accident by the cyclist's lawyer and you're toast (Not to mention being able to prove you know what you're doing).

Yeah bikes seem simple and working on them easy, but when you're selling repaired bicycles, especially in this country, you need to consider the risk.

I don't know much about building bikes right now, I'm about to get started on my first build. Wondering if this might be a decent way to support my bike habit.
Question answers itself.

Only way it pays out is if you have the time/tools/aptitude/pile of parts in hand, and also are willing and able to look for deals on bikes just about continuously.

Unfortunately, in most decent sized towns, there are already quite a few people doing it, so the competition is steep. Its not exactly a new or unique idea, you will find out that there are people out there, probably in your town, that have been doing it for 10 years or more. They can sniff out a deal from minimal info, and will pounce on the decent stuff lightning fast.

You need to determine how you plan to compete against these experienced flippers. They probably can access parts and consumables cheaper than you, and they probably have relationships built that help them find bikes.

Your edge might come from doing higher end stuff, or doing a better/more thorough job on the rehab, or maybe you will be a better marketer. If you can't describe your edge in two sentences, forget it.

+1 You have to find bikes at incredibly cheap prices (ditto parts and consumables). Otherwise, there is really no money in it. That means looking way past the local C/L for bikes. The great deals on C/L here last about 10 minutes. It also means buying consumables in bulk, on deals. Buying tires or cables or chains, or freewheels, etc., one or two at a time? Price is going to be way too high and your profit will quickly evaporate.