Foo - Wife is feeling down after 3rd kid - suggestions?

We have 3 kids. An almost 5 year old, a 2 year old and a 5 month old. I work full-time and finished school (bachelors) about 5 years ago. My wife is a stay-at-home mom.

We just recently got back from a really fun family vacation (w/o the youngest), but being back at the house my wife is becoming increasingly dissatisfied with the routine. With our previous two this came up, but not as often with our new baby girl - who is really, really high maintenance so far. My wife has said she just hates that she is always doing the same thing, every day.

Once or twice a week we meet for lunch (her and the 3 kids) at eat at a nearby park. When she dropped me back off at work she said she has been thinking about going to school to get an associates or something similar. The motivation is not financial since we are not in desperate need of money, but she did say that she feels jealous that people talk about their education and that she won't be able to help our son in school.

I don't think that she needs a college education to help our son through his schooling, but I think she is feeling like she is wanting to work towards something personal. I told her that I wasn't thrilled about the idea since it would take a lot of sacrifice of both of our time and money for her to get an education that she wouldn't use for anything (she isn't planning on working, and she is a fantastic mother). I think hearing that hurt her, but I want to offer something that would help her feel better about herself that won't have the same overall costs and as little value as an associates degree.

The time wouldn't be as much of an issue when all of our kids are in school, but that's a lot of years away. It seems to me like the dissatisfaction would go away as our youngest is more than a year old and hopefully doesn't cry as often, but I don't know what I can do now to make it easier for her. A few weeks ago I was finally able to get the baby girl to take a bottle, so I do wake up to feed the baby a bottle every few nights and I can actually feed her and I will do the dishes when the sink is full but I'm really at a loss.

What do you think?

Did she sacrifice to have kids while you were in school? Do you want a wife, a partner, someone that you love more than yourself, or just someone to watch your kids and do the dishes?

Not sure what your wedding vows were like, but perhaps you should find your wedding video and see what you promised her and make sure you are keeping up your end of the bargain.

I would sit down and discuss her dreaams and desires, what she wants to do when kids are older, etc and find a plan to help her be happy.

Personally I think going to school for something without any plans of applying what you've learned is a waste of time.
If she really wants to take some classes then I suggest she take something like cooking classes or wood working or beauty school.
Something that she could have fun learning and will be able to make something of what she learned.
There's no point in getting an associates degree in criminal justice if she has no plans of working in that field.

I would let her do whatever she wants. A 2 year degree at a community college is not very expensive. Sounds like she is willing to make some sacrifices but not you.

A happy mommy makes for a happy family. Raising children is all consuming and one of the hardest jobs on the planet. You should support her in whatever avenue she chooses to enrich her life.

There is research out there that indicates that an educated mother leads to greater success in school for her children. Do you want your children to be the best they can be? Going to get an Associates degree from a community college is a fantastic idea. CC costs less and you will all benefit from your wife's time in school.

Boy that third one really throws you for a curve. Try having a fourth and see how that goes. Maybe you just need an even number.

I really don't understand all the angst in these replies.
I understand that your wife is feeling a bit on the empty side but then again there is nothing wrong with you wanting to keep practicality in check.
Raising three kids ain't no joke. Daycare alone for three kids could easily run you $3000 a month!

How about you ask your wife if she would like to work as a daycare teacher.
You'll get a discount on daycare for the kids and your wife will have something to do.
She probably won't take home much as per paychecks are concerned but at least it'll be a change of pace.

Be encouraging, but logical. She obviously wants to do something to further herself. Encourage that. Jumping in an Associate program might not make sense though. Acknowledge that she needs something and explore different options. Maybe she can do a mentor program at some business, take continuing education classes at a college, or something along those lines.

Did she sacrifice to have kids while you were in school? Do you want a wife, a partner, someone that you love more than yourself, or just someone to watch your kids and do the dishes?

We got married when I had about a year and a half left and I had been working full time and going to school full-time so that I didn't have any student loans to pay off when I was finished. She had our first child after I was finished with school. I think your point is though, that since we are partners that I should be willing to sacrifice for her happiness which I totall agree with.

I know I can be super insensitive, and maybe that's the root of the problem, but for me it comes down to 3 things:

1 - We have talked about our financial plan for the next couple of years so we can move into a house, and doing this would extend that time frame by at least a year. We wouldn't have to accumulate any new debt, but it just delays the time to payoff existing debt (2nd mortgage on the duplex we are living in and a downpayment for a home).

2 - To me an associates degree has very little value, and maybe that's because I am in an industry that it's uncommon so I could be way off, so if it's just any assoicates degree it's a waste of time. We both think it's important to have a parent at home with the kids instead of a paying someone to care for them, so she would be be at home with them at least until they are all in school (or me if I coudln't work anymore). I would be more open to the idea if she wanted to continue her EMT training which she has done in the past.

3 - Since I'd be at work in the day she'd be going to school at night and I'd only see her a few times a week.


The things I like about it:

1 - She gets to do something she is wanting to do, and she gains new skills

2 - It gives us a backup so that in case something happens where I can't work, she can. We do have life insurance which should cover debt and living expenses in the case of my death (and schooling if she wanted to at that time) but we dont' really have a backup plan for me being disabled.

Did she sacrifice to have kids while you were in school? Do you want a wife, a partner, someone that you love more than yourself, or just someone to watch your kids and do the dishes?

Not sure what your wedding vows were like, but perhaps you should find your wedding video and see what you promised her and make sure you are keeping up your end of the bargain.

I would sit down and discuss her dreaams and desires, what she wants to do when kids are older, etc and find a plan to help her be happy.

this!
marriage is a lot more than just coming home from work.

Boy that third one really throws you for a curve. Try having a fourth and see how that goes. Maybe you just need an even number.

You're not kidding!

Our first son had such a great temperment, our second boy was hard to soothe (and wouldn't sleep) for his first year and holy crap this little girl has been insanely needy - so much crying. At this rate having a fourth would send one of us to the mental hospital for sure.

We have 4 kids...wel, they are adults now.

My marriage is, to put it succintly, falling apart. A lot of our current problems date back to the days when my wife was home raising the kids.

I always made good money and I was able to support my family in a very comfortable lifestyle. My wife never had to work outside the home and, unlike many women I know, never had to juggle home life and work.

I thought that I was doing all the right things by being a good husband, a good dad and a good provider. Apparently my wife wanted "more;" though to this date she cannot define what that "more" is/was.

By comparison, my S-I-L is happy as a clam being a homemaker and mom.

I mention this for two reason. First, women (and men too) are all different and have different goals/needs/aspirations.

Second, you don't really know what is going on in a person's head until you have an open and frank discussion with the person.

So my suggestion to you is that you find a way to have a weekend getaway with your wife (without the kids) and have a frank discussion with her about what she really needs/wants now and in the long term future. If you don't do it now, you may find yourselves 20 or 30 years into the future facing the same problems that my spouse and I are now facing.

Good kuck.

NOTE: BTW, she may be also suffering from post-partum depression. Seeing a doctor may help.

2 - To me an associates degree has very little value, and maybe that's because I am in an industry that it's uncommon so I could be way off, so if it's just any assoicates degree it's a waste of time.

I'm pretty sure you didn't read my post. That's the important part down there vvv. So her getting a degree isn't a waste of time.



There is research out there that indicates that an educated mother leads to greater success in school for her children.




3 - Since I'd be at work in the day she'd be going to school at night and I'd only see her a few times a week.



So, let me get this straight. You're time away from her is okay, but she has to be there when you are ready for her? Grow up a little bit. Night classes last 1-2 hours a night a couple of nights a week and letting her have a little time to pursue this would be that much of an inconvenience to you? Let me clue you in if you really value a two parent household and not having someone else taking care of your children. When husbands don't take these comments seriously from their wives, their wives start to feel resentment toward the husband. That then turns into anger and hurt, which often leads to divorce. Your wife is asking for a very small thing. If you truly value and love each other, this should be a no-brainer. [/RANT]

NOTE: BTW, she may be also suffering from post-partum depression. Seeing a doctor may help.

Very good point!

So my suggestion to you is that you find a way to have a weekend getaway with your wife (without the kids) and have a frank discussion with her about what she really needs/wants now and in the long term future. If you don't do it now, you may find yourselves 20 or 30 years into the future facing the same problems that my spouse and I are now facing.

Good kuck.

NOTE: BTW, she may be also suffering from post-partum depression. Seeing a doctor may help.

That's a great suggestion, and I am worried about the post-partum depression being a factor as well. It's hard to feel well when being sleep deprived and hearing crying so often. I think I really need to step it up and have date nights without the kids at least once a week.

That's a great suggestion, and I am worried about the post-partum depression being a factor as well. It's hard to feel well when being sleep deprived and hearing crying so often. I think I really need to step it up and have date nights without the kids at least once a week.

best of luck.

I have a few thoughts:

1. Getting checked out for the post-partum issues is an excellent idea
2. Education is never wasted. Education can be much more than just to get a job ticket punched.
3. There are so many online and distance learning options now, many at low cost, that she can get a great education without ever leaving the house.

I'm pretty sure you didn't read my post. That's the important part down there vvv. So her getting a degree isn't a waste of time.

The studies I've read show that having parents, especially the mother, that pay attention to and spend time with their children is the biggest contributor to success in children.




So, let me get this straight. You're time away from her is okay, but she has to be there when you are ready for her? Grow up a little bit. Night classes last 1-2 hours a night a couple of nights a week and letting her have a little time to pursue this would be that much of an inconvenience to you? Let me clue you in if you really value a two parent household and not having someone else taking care of your children. When husbands don't take these comments seriously from their wives, their wives start to feel resentment toward the husband. That then turns into anger and hurt, which often leads to divorce. Your wife is asking for a very small thing. If you truly value and love each other, this should be a no-brainer. [/RANT]

Where did I say my time away from her is ok? During the "working hours" of the day we are both at work, she is working full time caring for our children and I and working full time making money for our family. When I get home we can all spend time with each other and I can contribute to watching our kids. What I meant by that is I enjoy her company, and I wouldn't have that time with her if she were gone 3 hours a night every 3-5 nights a week. Do you think she would think it were a small thing if I were to ask her to have 3 hours, 4 nights a week and $4.5k a year to finance it? Things are shared pretty equally in our relationship including time and money.

2. Education is never wasted. Education can be much more than just to get a job ticket punched.
3. There are so many online and distance learning options now, many at low cost, that she can get a great education without ever leaving the house.

Both great points, thank you

Dood,
First I would agree with everyone that she should talk to the doc about PP. My SIL had it pretty bad.

Secondly husband to husband throw your financial plan out the window and let her go to school if that's what she wants. And don't just let her go to school be supportive of the idea. If she feels she needs a life outside the house away from the kids, then make it happen and even if you're not crazy about the idea don't let her know it. She may do it for a little while and decide she doesn't like it but the important thing is that it's her decision.

She's a woman. Let her take some cooking and cleaning classes and keep her barefoot and pregnant.

Support her and encourage her. Surely there is a University of Phoenix campus handy or something wherever you live.

(My wife and I both have bachelors' degrees and successfully talked each other out of grad school years ago. She decided she didn't want to do the homework for her MS and I didn't want to spend the money for mine.)

Mrs. A is currently on leave from her p/t job after the birth of our second. Her last work projects haven't really set her on fire, so she has been poking around for a new job in a slightly different field she actually cares a lot about for when she decides to return to work. I have been actively encouraging this.

She was pretty down for a while after the birth of our first-- he was a tough one right off the bat-- and he's still a handful at 2.5 years old. Our second baby has been a breeze in comparison and there is a lot less mood swinging going on. Thankfully, I have a generous employer and have been around the house more to help with the kids.

Also, we got a roomba to vacuum for us. :)

Our first son had such a great temperment, our second boy was hard to soothe (and wouldn't sleep) for his first year and holy crap this little girl has been insanely needy - so much crying. At this rate having a fourth would send one of us to the mental hospital for sure.

That sounds very familiar. Our youngest (and third as well) is almost three and I feel like I can see light at the end of the tunnel. My wife had a really rough time with the PP combined with some family drama at the same time. I'm not really sure how I kept it together but somehow we did. Trust me brother, you're right to think it gets easier and less frustrating.
Im guessing you may not have family nearby that can take one or more off your hands for a couple hours now and then? If that's the case, look forward to this, your oldest will start to be able to be more capable of doing small things to help mom when you're not there.
Take it one day at a time and try to make sure you (and your wife as well) don't feel guilty about "not enjoying all the little things" that people always toss your way when you complain about the stress.

Stay at home mom with three kids. Who does she get to socialize with besides you and the kids? If you stay home most evenings it is possible she is starting to feel isolated and trapped.

I think her attending college classes is a great idea. There is nothing wrong with learning for the joy of learning. If she really wants to go, check daytime classes also. Some CCs offer free/reduced daycare for students.

You blew it when you criticized her desire to go back to school. You can't unring that bell, but at minimum you should tell her that you've seen the light and agree she should try going back to school. Further education is never wasted.

I'm not married, so I could be way off...

First, you have somewhere to go. She does not. You leave the house and go to work regularly. There is variety in your life. You can escape home while at work. You escape work while at home.
Her work is home. And when you come home, more of her work comes home. She doesn't escape work; there is no escape for her.

Even these lunches you're having probably hinge on your schedule and not hers.

You've said you're in a duplex with 3 kids, so I'm assuming space is limited already. But, does she have a place in the dwelling that is hers (like a mancave for a woman? I don't know what to call it, but womancave definitely doesn't seem like a good idea.)? A small escape for her could be to this place. If she wants to do the education thing and opts for distance learning, it could be her classroom.

It sounds to me like she has the kids' schedule and your schedule, but none of her own. This can be true of a lot of stay at home parents and they fare well, but it seems to take its toll on others. Whatever is best for her sanity and happiness, and yours by extension, needs to happen.

Go see a shrink! Asking a bunch of strangers this kind of question is almost as bad as acting on of a bunch of strangers advice!!

I would let her do whatever she wants. A 2 year degree at a community college is not very expensive. Sounds like she is willing to make some sacrifices but not you.

Why would anyone post a intimate marrige malfunction in Foo?We'll just tell him to get some hookers and blow.

Some thoughts...

I'll preface this, just so you understand, I'm a career woman. I'm not married (anymore) by choice, and I've chosen not to have any children. I've made that choice because I know that I can't be a stay at home parent, and with the kind of career I have, I don't think it's fair to a child to have a constantly absentee parent. I'm not good with kids and I KNOW it, I don't have the required patience and time, and I'm too selfish. So I won't put a child in that situation. That said.

Three children 5 and under at home full time is as limited as it gets for a woman. I could not do it. I could not be a stay at home wife with no children. You go out every day and interact with other adults. Your wife does not. She doesn't have intellectually stimulating conversations or activities going on, and she probably resents the fact that you do. She has a million mundane tasks to do, two kids and a difficult baby to manage, plus she's probably sleep deprived. She may well be depressed. I would be.
I suspect this is less about actually wanting an associate's degree for the degree and more about wanting time that's her own, to interact with adults with no kids in it, to have real conversations and be an adult herself...and be outside the land of barney and blue's clues and whatnot. Does she get any time to herself? Does she go out with friends? Belong to a book club? Take art class? or whatever ? If you're against her getting an associate's degree, hire a nanny for a couple of days a week to relieve her of some of her responsibilities and get her OUT OF THE HOUSE so she has some time to herself. Let her get a little part time job or volunteer for a cause she believes in a few hours a week. I just have this suspicion that her world is very small, and going to lunch with you a couple of days a week and dragging the kids with her is not going to fix it.

PS. Don't make her feel guilty about needing help. Women are horrible about asking for help and accepting help, but everyone needs time for themselves. She can't be a good mom to your kids if she doesn't take care of herself first.

The studies I've read show that having parents, especially the mother, that pay attention to and spend time with their children is the biggest contributor to success in children.

Having an educated mother that pays attention to and spends time with their children increases that success significantly. I teach school and I can pretty easily pick out kids whose parents have higher education, even if they aren't stay at home. It makes a difference.


Where did I say my time away from her is ok? During the "working hours" of the day we are both at work, she is working full time caring for our children and I and working full time making money for our family. When I get home we can all spend time with each other and I can contribute to watching our kids. What I meant by that is I enjoy her company, and I wouldn't have that time with her if she were gone 3 hours a night every 3-5 nights a week. Do you think she would think it were a small thing if I were to ask her to have 3 hours, 4 nights a week and $4.5k a year to finance it? Things are shared pretty equally in our relationship including time and money.

You're out of the home 8-9 hours a day and she is at home raising your children. When does she get time to take care of herself? You get to use the bathroom in peace, eat lunch in peace, check email, make phone calls and have adult conversations. She doesn't get those things and it takes a toll. 20grit is right on the money. I'm speaking from the voice of experience as someone who's been there, done that with a husband who had pretty much the same attitude you do. We're not married any more. I got my degree and have a great career and two well adjusted, highly successful children. I'm just trying to tell you that you need to take her request seriously and stop being so closed minded in her request for something a little different in her life.

I see a triple child support order in OP's future.

I see a triple child support order in OP's future.

Always a negative spin eh?We know the dude is finished but why rub his nose in it?
I have to agree with the Rubester though.Sounds like the Mrs. has her eye on a new "buffer" and college career.

Very common occurence nowadays.

You blew it when you criticized her desire to go back to school. You can't unring that bell, but at minimum you should tell her that you've seen the light and agree she should try going back to school. Further education is never wasted.

I would say even more: Never, ever, impregnate a woman that doesn't have a career and a good salary. In fact, don't even marry such women. I don't care how much those women say they want to be a "stay at home MOM". They don't. They'll get bored and tired of stinky diapers day in and day out. You want kids? Contract a surrogate and raise the kid on your own, no mother necessary. Women raise children alone and so can do the men.

hello 1950s

Always a negative spin eh?We know the dude is finished but why rub his nose in it?
I have to agree with the Rubester though.Sounds like the Mrs. has her eye on a new "buffer" and college career.

Very common occurence nowadays.

He better open his eyes and start saving money for that divorce lawyer. Maybe put in the retainer if possible, ASAP. Don't wait till is too late. Please listen to the Great Rubester(TM)... I hold an honorary doctoral degree in divorce matters.

On the lighter side, give her a Cabana Boy for Christmas.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-o8BlfG0sSMo/UDeB5aZI2YI/AAAAAAAAAH4/Hudfx4F09wo/s1600/cabana+boy.jpg

On the more serious side, good luck, and just pay her some more attention.

On the lighter side, give her a Cabana Boy for Christmas.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-o8BlfG0sSMo/UDeB5aZI2YI/AAAAAAAAAH4/Hudfx4F09wo/s1600/cabana+boy.jpg

On the more serious side, good luck, and just pay her some more attention.

Will he get to watch?

He better open his eyes and start saving money for that divorce lawyer. Maybe put in the retainer if possible, ASAP. Don't wait till is too late. Please listen to the Great Rubester(TM)... I hold an honorary doctoral degree in divorce matters.

Let's hope the dispondent "dood" has an "extra" car to sleep in during his wife's career change:lol:

Damn, some pretty good but other pretty sad answers as well. I dont even know where to begin. It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that sometimes people tend to have kids when they arent ready for it yet. If one kid is a huge responsibility (I see women complaining all the time about 1 and how sleep deprived and tired they are.) 3 is just exponentially harder. My brother in law's wife has 3 girls with the oldest one being 5. It takes an army to take care of those kids. They come from a strongly traditional italian family so for them the more kids the merrier. They have no problem staying at home even though it does get tiring you have to understand that the kids are here and there is no going back. They have a grandma that doesnt work, an aunt (my fiancee) and their mom to take care of them. The mom runs her own daycare center at home for extra $ and I think that is pretty nice.

I do see some good in having one parent stay with their kids. Maybe I might just be ignorant but I think nobody can take care of child like its own parent and put them on their path to success and a happy life. Whether it be the mother or the father I think that to be the case. I don't think it is fair for a child to live with a single parent. They should get to experience the joy of having different people to interact and different qualities to learn from.

I think that now that the kids are there you will have to pull it off and sacrifice further. Unless it is something extremely illogical that will be conflictive, by taking her away for too long or something you just cant afford, I say let her do it. I know deep inside I wouldnt want my wife doing so but in that I am being selfish as well. Right now you need to seek what is good for the kids until they leave the house, that is your duty as a parent and if keeping mom happy will keep the family together the logical action would be to let her do it. Be supportive and drop alternatives. This might be a phase she is going through that might eventually pass and everything will go back to normal. Most women tend to be very emotional and all they want to hear from you is a definitive yes that shows her support. After that she might change her mind. I know mine does all the time. When tempers are hot people tend to think irrationally and sometimes it's better to flow with it for a while until she realizes what it is all about in the end.

I don't think you are dick at all. Your mind could be clouded by so many things and that can create a lot of confusion. I suggest to take her out more often if you can and also seeking some counseling because I'm pretty sure you have a beautiful family and it would be a shame to see it fall apart. I sincerely wish you the best of luck and like others said check if she is suffering from post partum depression. Be considerate and try to talk to her in a way that, even though you dont mean it, may insult her or make her believe you a pinpointing defects.

GOOD LUCK!

Let's hope the dispondent "dood" has an "extra" car to sleep in during his wife's career change:lol:

I love the cluelessness. Reminds me of the Rube(TM) wife/divorce saga @ chapter 1.

What do you think?

My mom experienced something similar. She felt like her vocabulary had been restricted and that everyday was repetitive. I suspect that your wife needs some "just you two" time with her husband.

I'm guessing that the schooling is also a deeper need and she sees time slipping away. You might compromise at one class a semester. There are bound to be some fun classes. It will help her self respect and get her out to meet other people. I wouldn't try a tough class at this point, but I'm sure you can find something in the local college catalog.

I remember that when I was 3, my mom was taking a class in Russian. Moloko means milk. Perhaps the school has courses in child development or childhood education. Even a humanities class will help, or health studies. My first class at community college was a class in puppetry. It may be tough, but not letting her take a class may be tougher as she struggles to keep her sanity. Education is not merely to get a job. It's to expand your soul, which it sounds like she needs.

And then, you never know. What if you got killed while riding your bike? How would she support the kids?

There has been a lot of helpful advice, and... a lot of projection of failed relationships - Zing!

We had more time to talk about her concerns - and obviously I should have just listened before throwing in my two cents. She needs more time to do something that isn't so monotonous, which doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a college degree.

She has nights for her to get out to do the Zumba thing with friends, and whatever else, but it hasn't been happening as much lately. These last 2 kids weren't supposed to be so close together and this last one has added a lot of stress. We're just trying to figure out how to deal with it - and yes she has much more of it than I do.

We're going to sign her up for some continuing education courses so she can try it out and it won't cost as much as college courses. If she wants to keep going for a degree we can figure it out. She doesn't want to see a doctor yet, but if these things don't help then that's the next step.

Sounds like a plan.

Glad to see you've reconsidered her request and found a working solution. I hope she finds her time fulfilling and returns to you all with renewed energy and spirit.

As for the "zing"...if sharing the failings of my past relationship have helped you maintain yours, I'm happy to have shared it.

I would say even more: Never, ever, impregnate a woman that doesn't have a career and a good salary. In fact, don't even marry such women. I don't care how much those women say they want to be a "stay at home MOM". They don't.

Wrong. A lot of women (and men) enjoy raising kids.

I'm not married, so I could be way off...

Correct.

Correct.

Care to offer any defense of this statement?
<3 2 Ride seems to think portions of the post were on target. If I am way off, then I'd like to know why to avoid similar situations to the OP. The whole thread seems to be about help. One word responses aren't much help.

Here are my thoughts, but beware that I am not known around here to be particularly articulate. :D

This doesn't strike me as a postpartum thing (although PPD can show up anytime); this seems more like a situation thing to me.

I would have her hold off on school until the kids themselves are in school.

However, you best be sure she is getting many chances to get out of the house without the kids in the meantime!

happy wife happy life my brotha... consider yourself lucky you have a beautiful wife and kids instead of being some single beer swilling loner who dreams of having a family

She couldn't have figured out that the third kid would be too much before getting pregnant? I recommend Valium and Prozac. This will not end well for anyone, especially the children, but if you keep her medicated, at least you won't have to suffer so much from her *****ing, moaning, and complaining.