Advocacy & Safety - Sighted last night- excellent rear safety practice

Haven't seen this before so I thought I would share.

Standard:
Blinking tail light on bike seat post

Not so standard but common enough:
Blinking tail light on bike seat post
Blinking tail light on helmet

Exceptional:
Blinking tail light on bike seat post
Blinking tail light on helmet
Blinking tail light on riding jacket at shoulder blade height

3 levels of blinking red lights is very impressive.

Just thought if you might be more concerned about hit from behind safety this setup might be something to consider

I currently have two (back of recumbent seat, and back of helmet). I'm looking to get one more, once I get a bracket mounted to my rear swingarm.

Haven't seen this before so I thought I would share.


3 levels of blinking red lights is very impressive.

Just thought if you might be more concerned about hit from behind safety this setup might be something to consider

You've never seen the Tower of Power? Consider this; used for commuting on a busy 55mph highway.

I have been using the 3 rear lights on my commute. Blinking on the rack and near shoulder height, steady red on the seatpack. How many red lights do you think it would take to become a glowing red mass that would make drivers think aliens had landed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mCMeEduEvo

This video is not as recent as I would like. I have since added one more blinky on the left rear pannier. I walk around the bike to show all angles. I have three tail lights, two amber markers, and two LED MR16's for headlights. There is a blinky on the seat post, but it is "OFF" in this picture. I also have the reflective "farm" triangle, and I also have a headlight and a tail light on my helmet.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/hotbike/IMG_1258.jpg
Plus, I carry road cones, a red flag, and wear a reflective vest.

I use three lights... one steady (24 LEDs), one PB flasher, and a small blinky... not to mention a reflector about the size of a desert plate.

Early in the mornings I get mostly very wide passing from motorists.

One of the best lighting schemes I ever saw was a small bright white light that shone on the back of the cyclist, aimed up from a rack over the rear tire... there was no doubt that he was a cyclist from a long way off. Blinkies and the like can be seen from quite a long way away, but the observer may not quite know what the light is... whereas this light shining on the cyclist made it quite clear.

Yes I've seen the "tower of power" but don't like it, too busy and would only make sense on a bent.

Night photos only count when the camera is at least a block away.

For 55mph road, you need a motorcycle and save cycling for slower speed areas.

Yes I've seen the "tower of power" but don't like it, too busy and would only make sense on a bent.

Night photos only count when the camera is at least a block away.

For 55mph road, you need a motorcycle and save cycling for slower speed areas.

I guess I can't leave my office then... as the surrounding roads are 55MPH, 65MPH and a freeway.

Night photos only count when the camera is at least a block away.

For 55mph road, you need a motorcycle and save cycling for slower speed areas.

I wasn't aware of the requirement to photograph from a block away to "count". Nor of the rule restricting cyclists to using roads only in the park or slower speed areas. Is that another of your "excellent rear safety practices"?

Nor of equipping my bike to "make sense" to people who only ride a bicycle in slower speed areas where cars never tailgate each other at high speed.

Here's my setup:

2 Blinking red Planet Bike Superflashes (PBSF) mounted on both chainstays.
1 Blinking PBSF clipped to the back of my rack trunk.
1 Blinking PBSF mounted on the side.
1 Blinking PBSF mounted to the back of my helmet.

According to the OP in post #1, is it classified as Standard, Not-So-Standard But Common Enough, or is it Exceptional? I'd like to know.

Here's my setup:

2 Blinking red Planet Bike Superflashes (PBSF) mounted on both chainstays.
1 Blinking PBSF clipped to the back of my rack trunk.
1 Blinking PBSF mounted on the side.
1 Blinking PBSF mounted to the back of my helmet.

All my lights can be set on steady if I choose.


On the front, I have 2 blinking white BRT 5 lights mounted on the handlebars.

According to the OP in post #1, is it classified as Standard, Not-So-Standard But Common Enough, or is it Exceptional? I'd like to know.

Haven't seen this before so I thought I would share.

Standard:
Blinking tail light on bike seat post

Not so standard but common enough:
Blinking tail light on bike seat post
Blinking tail light on helmet

Exceptional:
Blinking tail light on bike seat post
Blinking tail light on helmet
Blinking tail light on riding jacket at shoulder blade height

3 levels of blinking red lights is very impressive.

Just thought if you might be more concerned about hit from behind safety this setup might be something to consider

I sort of do the same thing on mine bike. I have my brightest light on steady on the seat post, helmet light on flashing, and bar end lights on flashing. I figure with one of the lights on steady it gives the driver more of a sense of distance from me, then the flashing is an attempt to attract their attention faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mCMeEduEvo

This video is not as recent as I would like. I have since added one more blinky on the left rear pannier. I walk around the bike to show all angles. I have three tail lights, two amber markers, and two LED MR16's for headlights. There is a blinky on the seat post, but it is "OFF" in this picture. I also have the reflective "farm" triangle, and I also have a headlight and a tail light on my helmet.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/hotbike/IMG_1258.jpg
Plus, I carry road cones, a red flag, and wear a reflective vest.

Wow, that's a hot mess.

There's no "requirement" except reflecting driver's impression. Most of the images on this subforum are closeup shots at night with light oversaturation. My point is simple: if you are judging the effectiveness of any lighting system, especially rear, you need to take the camera shot from where the driver would be at say 10 seconds away. Naturally that distance will vary according to speeds. It would be further at 45mph than at 25mph. To keep it simple, I just
said a block away. The actual formula for minimum distance from bike would be something like this:

A: distance covered @ posted speed + 10 mph in 5 seconds [Distance to recognition of hazard, ie, bike]
plus
B: distance covered @ posted speed + 10 mph in 3 seconds [Reaction time]
plus
C: distance covered braking average vehicle @ posted speed + 10 mph.

Who said park. "slower speeds" is any road. Review the cyclist death tables, rate of deaths climb above 45 mph.
Any road with traffic under 50mph, should be ok. But that depends on the room for shoulder riding if necessary.
I'm not familar with Burlington IA roads, but Cedar Rapids/Iowa City/Amanda Colonies have a mixture of some good routes and many where alertness is paramount.

It's your life, you can ride the Interstate to Des Moines if you like, but if safety is a high concern, that interstate ride would be with a motorcycle and not bicycle.

You've never seen the Tower of Power? Consider this; used for commuting on a busy 55mph highway.

I sort of liked that it is high enough to make a driver wonder jsut what is ahead of them.

BUT

I also recall soem discussions when I was doing double centuries about the theory that some drivers, drunks and overly tired ones, tend to zero in on the red lights and 'follow' them. That can get bad if they zero in and don't click to the fact that yuo are going far slower than they thought. At least until they hit you.

I go for four levels:
1. 2 W cygolight on helmet
2. 2 W cygolight on reflective vest
3. Dinotte on seat post
4. Little clip-on LEDs that are slightly less bright than a superflash attached to my reflective ankle straps

From a distance, the only light that matters is the Dinotte. It is so bright it just washes out the other lights for anything that is overtaking. However, when there is some angle involved I think the additional flashers may garner more attention.

I remember riding in urban/suburban traffic in the Bay Area in the '70s with just a couple of incandescent glorified flashlights strapped onto my shoulders and knees (two C-cells, one bulb, yellow top with a red lens facing the rear and a white lens facing forwards). I thought I was lit up like a solstice tree, but that amount of light was practically nothing compared to what we now have available. Heck, we can actually use our bike lights to see the road these days, even with my old eyes.

I sort of liked that it is high enough to make a driver wonder jsut what is ahead of them.

BUT

I also recall soem discussions when I was doing double centuries about the theory that some drivers, drunks and overly tired ones, tend to zero in on the red lights and 'follow' them. That can get bad if they zero in and don't click to the fact that yuo are going far slower than they thought. At least until they hit you.

Yep, that's the major problem with too many lights. Good safety lights:

1- get noticed
2- help driver judge closing speed,
3- aren't too annoying or too bright that drivers lock into the light and just drive into the light.

that's why highway patrol cars are very careful about their night light presence.

I've just got a blinky reflector on the rear rack and a reflective vest from Home Depot. Then again, I haven't ridden in the dark yet.

I think too many lights is a distraction to the driver. If they don't see the blinky (attracting attention from five blocks away according to my wife) and reflective vest (lights up like a flare in headlights), they're never going to see me. Luckily, my commute doesn't take me on any roads over 35mph.

I've just got a blinky reflector on the rear rack and a reflective vest from Home Depot. Then again, I haven't ridden in the dark yet.

I think too many lights is a distraction to the driver. If they don't see the blinky (attracting attention from five blocks away according to my wife) and reflective vest (lights up like a flare in headlights), they're never going to see me. Luckily, my commute doesn't take me on any roads over 35mph.

I don't think too many is distraction, rather an attraction. What you should do at night is drive your car around and pay more attention over the coming months to cyclists out riding and see who stands out more, the guy with a single dim blinky or the guy with a couple of more bright ones. Your thoughts are not based on real evidence whatsoever.

The relective vest is a great idea, and Home Depot vests do work very well and cost next to nothing, it's where I got mine too. Do yourself one other favor, get a set of highly reflective ankle bands, their less then $10. There was a study that older people saw the up down motion of ankle bands BEFORE they noticed the other reflective devices even though both could be seen at the same time, something to do with age, I'm not sure why that is.

Obviously only you can determine how you want to set your bike for anything including lighting, but at least look into a bit more. Yoy can always start out with one light and then add to it later by getting a really bright one and mounting the old on your helmet or some other place.

I'm running three rear lights during dusk/dark. One is on the rear fender, next on the rear rack, the third is on my helmet. I also wear a bright yellow/reflective vest. There's additional reflectors (front and rear) and front lights as well.

275300

I don't think too many is distraction, rather an attraction. What you should do at night is drive your car around and pay more attention over the coming months to cyclists out riding and see who stands out more, the guy with a single dim blinky or the guy with a couple of more bright ones. Your thoughts are not based on real evidence whatsoever.

The relective vest is a great idea, and Home Depot vests do work very well and cost next to nothing, it's where I got mine too. Do yourself one other favor, get a set of highly reflective ankle bands, their less then $10. There was a study that older people saw the up down motion of ankle bands BEFORE they noticed the other reflective devices even though both could be seen at the same time, something to do with age, I'm not sure why that is.

Obviously only you can determine how you want to set your bike for anything including lighting, but at least look into a bit more. Yoy can always start out with one light and then add to it later by getting a really bright one and mounting the old on your helmet or some other place.

Yep, I'm sure I'll change some things once it gets dark on my commute. My blinky is a bright one though; bright enough to see the blinking in sunlight.

I have pedal reflectors, did the study say that ankle reflectors were better? Pedals would still give that up and down motion.

There's no "requirement" except reflecting driver's impression. Most of the images on this subforum are closeup shots at night with light oversaturation. My point is simple: if you are judging the effectiveness of any lighting system, especially rear, you need to take the camera shot from where the driver would be at say 10 seconds away. Naturally that distance will vary according to speeds. It would be further at 45mph than at 25mph. To keep it simple, I just
said a block away. The actual formula for minimum distance from bike would be something like this:

A: distance covered @ posted speed + 10 mph in 5 seconds [Distance to recognition of hazard, ie, bike]
plus
B: distance covered @ posted speed + 10 mph in 3 seconds [Reaction time]
plus
C: distance covered braking average vehicle @ posted speed + 10 mph.

Who said park. "slower speeds" is any road. Review the cyclist death tables, rate of deaths climb above 45 mph.
Any road with traffic under 50mph, should be ok. But that depends on the room for shoulder riding if necessary.
I'm not familar with Burlington IA roads, but Cedar Rapids/Iowa City/Amanda Colonies have a mixture of some good routes and many where alertness is paramount.

It's your life, you can ride the Interstate to Des Moines if you like, but if safety is a high concern, that interstate ride would be with a motorcycle and not bicycle.

Didn't know that photos submitted to BF are being judged by you. Thanks for providing the rules and formula for meeting your approval.

Who the heck is talking about riding on an Interstate? I wish one was available with a wide paved shoulder like I used to ride to work in Oregon.

i recommend that all install and use lights that meet their own riding requirements, not the roads and shoulders we wish were available or that some posters imagine exist everywhere. Nor to meet a high score of some self appointed judge of lighting effectiveness.

My posted light setup was for the roads I used to get to work, 55mph highway with 10 foot lanes and no usable shoulders. Not the roads that the OP imagines exist where I live, nor the roads that are in his area.

BUT

I also recall soem discussions when I was doing double centuries about the theory that some drivers, drunks and overly tired ones, tend to zero in on the red lights and 'follow' them. That can get bad if they zero in and don't click to the fact that yuo are going far slower than they thought. At least until they hit you.

Urban myths are often repeated in discussions both on the Internet as well as at the proverbial water coolers, everywhere.

The discussions you have heard about the increased risk from the "moth effect" of bright lighting are repeating the same unproven hypothesis often circulated on the Internet, that has little to no credible validation in the real world of driving or cycling.

Didn't know that photos submitted to BF are being judged by you. Thanks for providing the rules and formula for meeting your approval.
I have judged your lights to be the most awesome thing ever, thanks for posting them

I have judged your lights to be the most awesome thing ever, thanks for posting them

Thanks.

Seeing the road that ILTB rode on, along with the large trucks, his Mothership lights were probably still inadequate.

Night photos only count when the camera is at least a block away.

For 55mph road, you need a motorcycle and save cycling for slower speed areas.

Agree with the night photo comment.

Disagree with the 55mph road comment - if there is ample room and the ride is legal, than why not? Why not cut that number off at 50 or 45? If I have to plan my ride around roadways with that kind of speed limit, then I can limit my riding to around my block.

Urban myths are often repeated in discussions both on the Internet as well as at the proverbial water coolers, everywhere.

The discussions you have heard about the increased risk from the "moth effect" of bright lighting are repeating the same unproven hypothesis often circulated on the Internet, that has little to no credible validation in the real world of driving or cycling.

And you have not proven that the claim is unsubstantiated, which is the same thing as claiming that it exists.

Haven't seen this before so I thought I would share.

Standard:
Blinking tail light on bike seat post

Not so standard but common enough:
Blinking tail light on bike seat post
Blinking tail light on helmet

Exceptional:
Blinking tail light on bike seat post
Blinking tail light on helmet
Blinking tail light on riding jacket at shoulder blade height

3 levels of blinking red lights is very impressive.

Just thought if you might be more concerned about hit from behind safety this setup might be something to consider

The only problem I have with the setup is, the blinking tail light on helmet. For some reason they keep dying on me. I am not crashing a lot. The construction of the helmet lights just seems really bad. But I definitely do the tail light on my seat post, and on my back.

Urban myths are often repeated in discussions both on the Internet as well as at the proverbial water coolers, everywhere.

The discussions you have heard about the increased risk from the "moth effect" of bright lighting are repeating the same unproven hypothesis often circulated on the Internet, that has little to no credible validation in the real world of driving or cycling.


Saying it's an urban legend doesn't make it one. I work in an E.R. and I worked at least three wrecks this year that happened in and around cops with their flashers on. All the wrecks involved drunks, two were fatalities where the drunk realized at the last second that they were dealing with a stopped LEO, overcorrected, rolled their car and were killed. I NEVER travel with traffic with a blinking light. I've seen far to many wrecks over almost thirty years working in E.R.'s caused by drunks zeroing in on flashing lights.

Saying it's an urban legend doesn't make it one. I work in an E.R. and I worked at least three wrecks this year that happened in and around cops with their flashers on. All the wrecks involved drunks, two were fatalities where the drunk realized at the last second that they were dealing with a stopped LEO, overcorrected, rolled their car and were killed. I NEVER travel with traffic with a blinking light. I've seen far to many wrecks over almost thirty years working in E.R.'s caused by drunks zeroing in on flashing lights.

Exactly why I don't ride at night with my main light flashing, and it's why European law requires their bicycle tail lights to be only steady. I do use my other less brighter rear lights (the bar end lights and the helmet light) on flashing mode mostly to conserve batteries, but I think, though have no studies to prove this, that the flashing will grab someones attention while the steady light will help them to ascertain distance from me better. While I haven't been ever hit from behind sometimes I wonder if the other lights I have on the flashing mode would cause a drunk to do something, or will the one on steady mode help them to realize their distance better?

Cops know all too well the dangers of flashing lights when they pull someone over, so for someone to say flashing lights attract drunks is a myth is completely off base and has been proven in many studies to be a real phenomenon.

Finally some 'illumination' if you will. Is it true that European law requires a STEADY taillight? If that is true, what is the reason given?
I'm starting to ride at night ( shorter days) and workable solutions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

And you have not proven that the claim is unsubstantiated, which is the same thing as claiming that it exists.
I suggest you take a course in logical thought. Until then look up the logical fallacy of demanding that skeptics of a claim need to prove the negative.

The burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion or proposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad ignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made. The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.
http://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialsciences/ppecorino/phil_of_religion_text/CHAPTER_5_ARGUMENTS_EXPERIENCE/Burden-of-Proof.htm

Finally some 'illumination' if you will. Is it true that European law requires a STEADY taillight? If that is true, what is the reason given?
I'm starting to ride at night ( shorter days) and workable solutions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

It depends on the light but the UK rules state the following:



a light with a steady mode is considered approved only if it conforms to BS 6102/3 or an equivalent European standard;
a light without a steady mode is considered approved only if it flashes at a constant rate of between 60 to 240 flashes per minute and has a luminous intensity of at least 4 candela;

The majority of LED lights available are not approved for UK use since they have steady modes that do not conform to BS 6102/3. It is, however, legal to fit additional lights providing that they are of the correct colour, they do not dazzle other road users and that if they flash, they do so at a constant rate of between 60 and 240 flashes per minute.
National cyclists' organisations such as LAB (US) or CTC (UK)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_lighting#cite_note-5) are a source of lighting information.

In Germany is it forbidden by law to use flashing rear lights regardless of the light being used.

But it is a huge controversy which is actually better, steady or flash in regards to bicycles, you're not going to get a "right" answer just opinions. Germany had studies to show that steady was safer and that's why they have that law, UK had similar results as the German study but allowed for high rate flashing, but USA has studies showed that flashing is safer, who's right? The USA law doesn't care if your light is steady of flashing just as long as you have a light, so maybe the US studies were inconclusive as to which was better so they allowed for either? That's why I went with both!! My main is steady and my other less brighter ones flash, I think the flash makes people wake up and the steady gives them a focus point. Like I said before I have no proof if what I'm doing is safer.

Cops know all too well the dangers of flashing lights when they pull someone over, so for someone to say flashing lights attract drunks is a myth is completely off base and has been proven in many studies to be a real phenomenon.

Kindly furnish any information you might have on the names or URLs of these "many studies" that prove "flashing lights attract drunks". Unsubstantiated reference to unidentified "studies" is even more shaky as evidence than claiming that "Cops know all too well the dangers of flashing lights."

Kindly furnish any information you might have on the names or URLs of these "many studies" that prove "flashing lights attract drunks". Unsubstantiated reference to unidentified "studies" is even more shaky as evidence than claiming that "Cops know all too well the dangers of flashing lights."

This is a well known fact, I'm surprised you NEVER read any of this in newspapers? your not very well read are you? They even have safety seminars and training to help officers with this, if it wasn't proven then why do all the training in regards to it? You could do your own internet search of this stuff. This is why there is a constant evolution going on with police car flashing lights in an attempt to reduce this phenomenon, if this was a myth then why would they bother trying to prevent a myth?

Try reading this: http://www.policeusa.com/welcome-to-the-danger-zone/
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/enfstop.htm
And drunks particularly like red flashing lights...which is what cyclists use! see: http://www.i95coalition.net/i95/Portals/0/Public_Files/uploaded/Incident-toolkit/documents/Guide/Guide_Clear_RF.pdf

I don't think that moth effect applies to sober people though. This site has a study on the "moth" effect but it only relates to sober people, but there is some evidence to suggest that a flashing light will with some people give them a tendency to steer closer to the flashing object. See: http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/motheffect.html

This is a well known fact, I'm surprised you NEVER read any of this in newspapers? your not very well read are you? They even have safety seminars and training to help officers with this, if it wasn't proven then why do all the training in regards to it? You could do your own internet search of this stuff. This is why there is a constant evolution going on with police car flashing lights in an attempt to reduce this phenomenon, if this was a myth then why would they bother trying to prevent a myth?

Try reading this: http://www.policeusa.com/welcome-to-the-danger-zone/
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/enfstop.htm
And drunks particularly like red flashing lights...which is what cyclists use! see: http://www.i95coalition.net/i95/Portals/0/Public_Files/uploaded/Incident-toolkit/documents/Guide/Guide_Clear_RF.pdf

I don't think that moth effect applies to sober people though. This site has a study on the "moth" effect but it only relates to sober people, but there is some evidence to suggest that a flashing light will with some people give them a tendency to steer closer to the flashing object. See: http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/motheffect.html

Your first reference is NOT a study but merely articles repeating Urban legends without substantiation..

The slide show is a grab bag of advice for emergency responders whose main point is found on slide 38, "Numerous Vehicles are struck while parked next to the highway every year by these drunk, drugged, elderly, fatigued and confused drivers." Some of them have lights on.

The second main point of the presentation is that amber is a better color than red for emergency lights.

No evidence is presented that flashing lights attract sober or drunk drivers more frequently than non-flashing lights.

An illogical fellow could draw a wacky conclusion that no lights would make emergency responders safer than using any emergency lights, cherry picking this slide show as proof, as you have.

The article about the "moth effect" just restates the issue and draws zero conclusions about a greater risk arising from using a flashing light rather than a steady (or no) light.

For 55mph road, you need a motorcycle and save cycling for slower speed areas.

90% of my riding takes place on roads with speed limits of 55-65 mph, including riding after dark (which is getting earlier every day). I wear a hi-viz jersey or jacket, a silver/white helmet with reflective elements, a 144 lumen headlight, and have a 5-LED very bright blinky on my seat bag. The group and charity rides I participate in also follow routes where the speed limit is 55 or greater. I have no intention on limiting my riding to quiet residential streets and MUPs.
_______________________________

Drunks do stupid things (Instant Idiot - Just add alcohol) so no matter what color, how many, blinking or non-blinking lights you have it won't protect you from an impared driver. Drunks also seem to be attracted to telephone poles, medians, parked cars, sign posts, and the occasional building. I'd rather accept the questionable increase in risk of being hit by a drunk because I had a couple blinkies on my bike, than risk being hit by a sober and competent driver who honestly couldn't see me in stealth mode.

The reference to flashing lights at emergency scenes isn't really a fair comparison with a blinking tail light on a bicycle. An emergency scene typically has numerous very bright beacons, strobes and work lights on multiple vehicles. Drivers are often confused and partially blinded by the light show. There is also a huge problem with rubber necking to see the accident or the person being arrested. Drunk or otherwise impared drivers are also very paranoid and are so busy watching the cops they don't pay attention to traffic cones, flares, traffic, or people directing traffic.

I work in EMS and am well aware of "the moth effect". It is real but isn't limited to just flashing lights. It works in the same way that focusing on a hazard, rather than where you actually want to go, increases your chances of crashing. I assume that being tired, drunk or otherwise impared exacerbates the effect. Nobody has ever come up with a viable alternative so law enforcement, fire, ambulances, and other emergency vehicles still use flashing lights on emergency scenes. Everyone has their opinions as to whether flashing lights, strobes, continuous lights are better but I haven't seen any conclusive proof, mostly theory based on anecdotal evidence.

Your first reference is NOT a study but merely articles repeating Urban legends without substantiation..

The slide show is a grab bag of advice for emergency responders whose main point is found on slide 38, "Numerous Vehicles are struck while parked next to the highway every year by these drunk, drugged, elderly, fatigued and confused drivers." Some of them have lights on.

The second main point of the presentation is that amber is a better color than red for emergency lights.

No evidence is presented that flashing lights attract sober or drunk drivers more frequently than non-flashing lights.

An illogical fellow could draw a wacky conclusion that no lights would make emergency responders safer than using any emergency lights, cherry picking this slide show as proof, as you have.

The article about the "moth effect" just restates the issue and draws zero conclusions about a greater risk arising from using a flashing light rather than a steady (or no) light.

So you know more then all the police agencies? Please show your proof...oh that's right you have none just a bunch of meaningless words, great, next please!

[QUOTE=Myosmith;14813574
I work in EMS and am well aware of "the moth effect". It is real but isn't limited to just flashing lights. It works in the same way that focusing on a hazard, rather than where you actually want to go, increases your chances of crashing. I assume that being tired, drunk or otherwise impared exacerbates the effect. Nobody has ever come up with a viable alternative so law enforcement, fire, ambulances, and other emergency vehicles still use flashing lights on emergency scenes. Everyone has their opinions as to whether flashing lights, strobes, continuous lights are better but I haven't seen any conclusive proof, mostly theory based on anecdotal evidence.[/QUOTE]

Supposedly the studies show that drunks are more attracted to the color red and it has to be flashing, this doesn't seem to effect non drunks who may steer closer but not hit the flashing object. This is not to say that other colors don't do the same thing but the other colors are not as frequently involved in accidents as red. HOWEVER, a lot of people will steer closer to an object that their looking at regardless if day or night or flashing or not because people have a tendency to steer in the direction their looking. Amber is the next best color to have flashing and attract drunks. This is why all state highway patrols recommend that if your car breaks down at night and your waiting for help to arrive that you stay in your car buckled up.

So you know more then all the police agencies? Please show your proof...oh that's right you have none just a bunch of meaningless words, great, next please!
Which police agency doesn't use flashing lights for emergency vehicles?

See msg #33 for guidance on logical thought and shifting the burden of proof.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/849176-Sighted-last-night-excellent-rear-safety-practice?p=14812785&viewfull=1#post14812785

I use a 2nd strobe on my left drop bar. this weekend I had a guy comment favorably on it.

Which police agency doesn't use flashing lights for emergency vehicles?

See msg #33 for guidance on logical thought and shifting the burden of proof.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/849176-Sighted-last-night-excellent-rear-safety-practice?p=14812785&viewfull=1#post14812785


I can't believe I have to spell this out for you. Lets try it again. Show me proof that police agencies have found no unusual or out of the normal problems with flashing lights on their cars and the potential of a drunk hitting them. Do you get that yet? I have a feeling you don't.

I’ve logged well over 20,000 miles of night riding, I use to run Dual DiNotte 140R’s pointing both at the drivers face with NO moth effect and on stormy weather nights I would toss a Super Flash on for good measure. I’ve run 4 Super Flashes with 2 Cateye 1100’s No Moth effect. I now run a DiNotte 400R with 2 Cygolite Hotshots, all on flash and pointing at the drivers face. No moth effect.

I do change the modes and power levels I run them on depending on the road situations.

Now if an emergency vehicle was parked on a dark road running 50 or more higher powered LED flasher with strobe lights that might cause the moth effect by blinding people.

I use a 2nd strobe on my left drop bar. this weekend I had a guy comment favorably on it.

Interesting idea..