Bicycle Mechanics - 20 Darwin Award candidates AKA unscrupulous seller of snake oil

Please observe the perfidity of this snake-oil seller. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1202837765/z-torque-bicycle-cranks-ride-faster-longer-easier) In addition to the fact that his crank offers zero advantage compared to a crank with the same distance between BB and pedal spindles, there's the fact that the products he is about to sell are unsafe and possibly life-threatening!

I tried to warn the powers to be, using the "Report this project to Kickstarter" button at the bottom of the page, but will they listen to one person only?

Or maybe I should leave evolution to take its course and remove or permanently incapacitate those too dumb to understand basic physics?

LOL, "Darwin Award" might be over-dramatic, but it's interesting to see someone re-invent the PMP L-cranks: http://pardo.net/bike/pic/mobi/d.pmp-cranks/index.html

LOL, "Darwin Award" might be over-dramatic, but it's interesting to see someone re-invent the PMP L-cranks: http://pardo.net/bike/pic/mobi/d.pmp-cranks/index.html

If a crank snaps at the wrong moment, the rider might be surprised/startled enough to fall.

Edit: "LOL"

Judging from the video, it looks like it may simply increase your effective gear inches.

Judging from the video, it looks like it may simply increase your effective gear inches.

And maybe, if you look carefully, it might even make you fart rainbows?

And maybe, if you look carefully, it might even make you fart rainbows?
It's well known that rainbow farts have more propulsive energy than the regular ones.

"Scam" is one of the appropriate terms to suck in gullible cyclists.


Judging from the video, it looks like it may simply increase your effective gear inches.

Flunk math ? The video shows a person riding a bike. Gear inches are determines by the gears.

The institutional memory of the bike world is less than 20 years, so every so often the same old nonsense is brought out as the latest and greatest. Z cranks in one form or another have been around, and will be around again in 20 years or so.

One clue to how totally clueless the "inventor" is, is that he's tooling this for obsolete square taper system. (Not a statement about the quality of sq. taper cranks -- I still prefer them, but why bring out a new product mated to a fading star?)

"Scam" is one of the appropriate terms to suck in gullible cyclists.

I like the world of cycling, and cyclists in general, but there is a large minority (or is it a majority?) that will throw money at any and every kind of carp, especially if expensive.


I wish every cyclist were also a smart person like Sheldon Brown or Graeme Obree, who actually understand physics!

But notice the inherent beauty of the "iconic ladder structure of our aluminum Z-Torque crank "
Imagine how your cycling buddies will be awed by the soon-to-come carbon fiber version.

One clue to how totally clueless the "inventor" is, is that he's tooling this for obsolete square taper system. (Not a statement about the quality of sq. taper cranks -- I still prefer them, but why bring out a new product mated to a fading star?)

He's been working on it for 12 years .... :roflmao2:

People have actually given him money :eek:

Let's see ..... I would like a crankset that is heavier than my current crank, and is more flexible .... hmmmm... How can I accomplish that ??

Dang, biggest problem I have with this is I make my living as an ME.

I don't get this crank couldn't someone gain about the same amount of additionl leverage by just buying a 5mm longer stiffer better quality crank.

I don't get this crank couldn't someone gain about the same amount of additionl leverage by just buying a 5mm longer stiffer better quality crank.

That's the point. There is no advantage to them.

I don't think this is a "Darwin Award" candidate as much as a "P. T. Barnum Award" candidate.

I don't think this is a "Darwin Award" candidate as much as a "P. T. Barnum Award" candidate.

It wouldn't be, if the cranks weren't made of drillium or, soon, CF.

But they look cool. I'd like a set to sell on Ebay as a NASA-supported prototype crank set from the 80's that was banned due to the unfair advantage it gave riders who could afford the technology. All Z-cranks were ordered destroyed. This is the only surviving example. Smuggled out of the lab by Nancy Reagan herself during a PR tour.

I'd make a killing.

I emailed him to ask how the scam is coming along.
Does he have to give back the money if the total pledge amount is not met ?

I try not to laugh at my fellow cyclists, but jebus.. I think I would if I saw those on someones bike.

I try not to laugh at my fellow cyclists, but jebus.. I think I would if I saw those on someones bike.

Yeah, but not if he also had oval chainrings.

BTW- It's a good thing I'm a thick skinned New Yorker, or I might be offended by the reference to snake oil.

Yeah, but not if he also had oval chainrings.

BTW- It's a good thing I'm a thick skinned New Yorker, or I might be offended by the reference to snake oil.
That might cause an aneurysm.

Yeah, but not if he also had oval chainrings.

BTW- It's a good thing I'm a thick skinned New Yorker, or I might be offended by the reference to snake oil.

What? Is that the secret ingredient in Chain-L? Ground up snakes? Does Samuel L. Jackson give you a call every time he gets on a plane that has too many snakes on it?

What? Is that the secret ingredient in Chain-L? Ground up snakes? Does Samuel L. Jackson give you a call every time he gets on a plane that has too many snakes on it?

Ya got me. But they're not courtesy of Samual Jackson. They were surplus after production of one of the Raiders... flicks.

I emailed him to ask how the scam is coming along.
Does he have to give back the money if the total pledge amount is not met ?

there is no money if the total is not met

I see people pledging $1 just so they have permission to enter comments about what a stupid project it is !

Oh my.....what unabashed malarkey. The video uses a "Next", and then with his little demo there, he starts the crank in two different places! I find this sort of thing a patently offensive assault on my sensibilities.

What? Is that the secret ingredient in Chain-L? Ground up snakes? Does Samuel L. Jackson give you a call every time he gets on a plane that has too many snakes on it?
Hahahahah.... reference overload, head explodes....

I don't think this is a "Darwin Award" candidate as much as a "P. T. Barnum Award" candidate.

+10,000,000

Holy sh*t... The guy is advertising on BF!

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o197/old_fool/bikeparts/z-crank.png

I guess BF isn't too choosy about their advertisers

Holy sh*t... The guy is advertising on BF!

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o197/old_fool/bikeparts/z-crank.png
More like google ads saw you look them up.

I don't think they're dangerous so much as useless.
Also what bikes would they be for? There's no spider..... which means,,,,, what? BMX? Single-ring cruisers? What kind of bike are you supposed to use these on? Even fixies/track cranks I've seen had spiders.

Also--as for square cranks being obsolete,,, I am converting a bike with a two-piece crank to square taper, after the spindle came loose in the right crank arm.
The other bike I have (both bikes bought in 2006) has a square-taper crank made by the same company that is still rock-solid.

I don't think they're dangerous

Not dangerous... apart from the fact that they're likely to snap, you mean?

Not dangerous... apart from the fact that they're likely to snap, you mean?

We don't know that. Who's to say (though we might infer) what quality or strength standard they're built to. It isn't that they're dangerous (except to pride) but that they're just plain dumb.


BTW- If anybody actually thinks these are a good idea, NYC is getting ready to privatize the East River bridges, as a budget gap closing measure, and to authorize tolls as part of the federally mandated traffic abatement scheme. I tell you this because I'm the exclusive broker and am accepting bids.

We don't know that. Who's to say (though we might infer) what quality or strength standard they're built to. It isn't that they're dangerous (except to pride) but that they're just plain dumb.

This is what we do know: we know that the shape of the crank-arm is an L, and we know that a very significant alternating tensile-compressive stress is applied to it.
We also know that this dolt is going to make them out of carbon fiber. We're talking about a person who couldn't find his own ass-crack with Google Maps. And he's going to make a CF component that has a sharp bend that is subjected to alternating stress.


Are you worried, yet?

This is what we do know: we know that the shape of the crank-arm is an L, and we know that a very significant alternating tensile-compressive stress is applied to it.
We also know that this dolt is going to make them out of carbon fiber. We're talking about a person who couldn't find his own ass-crack with Google Maps. And he's going to make a CF component that has a sharp bend that is subjected to alternating stress.


Are you worried, yet?

I'm not worried at all. I save my worries for stuff that actually matters to me. I agree that there are plenty of clues from which we can infer quality, but my honest expectation is that this crank will never be built. The minute they start producing and testing, they'll be forced through a round of redesigns, and maybe give up before delivering.

I don't know what protections kickstarter offers project supporters, but expect we'll hear more after it's funded.

One thing I'm curious about is the patent claims. There is so much prior art that any patent should have been denied flat out without even considering the claimed benefits.

Years ago I wanted to create a "museum of stupid ideas" for things like this, but this wouldn't make the cut. There are too many better executed examples of the identical concept.

I don't think they're dangerous so much as useless.
Also what bikes would they be for? There's no spider..... which means,,,,, what? BMX? Single-ring cruisers? What kind of bike are you supposed to use these on? Even fixies/track cranks I've seen had spiders.


I was also trying to figure out how you'd put a spider on it, thought I was missing something obvious and decided not to say anything.

As far as kickstarter protections, as far as I'm aware there are none. I've heard of a couple of projects that got funded and then the people 2-3 years on still be waiting for the reward.

I searched around and saw a picture of a spider, so I think these pictures are just 2 left arms.

How much you wanna bet the owner has figured out they're a scam by now and is just persevering to recoup his investment?

One thing I'm curious about is the patent claims. There is so much prior art that any patent should have been denied flat out without even considering the claimed benefits.

Years ago I wanted to create a "museum of stupid ideas" for things like this, but this wouldn't make the cut. There are too many better executed examples of the identical concept.

The "Museum of Bad Bike Ideas" on pardo.net is where I got the link that I posted earlier in the thread. :thumb:

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/mobi/index.html

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/mobi/index.html

Good God! So many "why"s!

What? Is that the secret ingredient in Chain-L? Ground up snakes? Does Samuel L. Jackson give you a call every time he gets on a plane that has too many snakes on it?

275407


No snakes are use in the manufacturing of Snake Oil. The US government tested Snake Oil to see what was in it. It was found to contain:
1. mineral oil
2. beef fat
3. red pepper
4. turpentine
5. camphor

The inventor of Snake Oil, Clark Stanley (the "Rattlesnake King") was fined by the, US District Court for Rhode Island, for mislabeling his product by not having any snake oil in Snake Oil.

Thanks for giving me the idea of using it for a chain lube. Since the patent has run out on Snake Oil, I could bring it back as a chain lube. I will advertise that you can lube your chain and rub your sore joints after a long ride all from the same bottle.

If any of you would like to join me in this endeavor, just send me $19.95, and I will send you a coupon good for one free bottle as soon as I go into production. However, if I fail to go into production your $19.95 is not refundable.

I will be checking my mail box for your checks. Now don’t disappoint me guys. :)

275407


No snakes are use in the manufacturing of Snake Oil. The US government tested Snake Oil to see what was in it. It was found to contain:
1. mineral oil
2. beef fat
3. red pepper
4. turpentine
5. camphor

The inventor of Snake Oil, Clark Stanley (the "Rattlesnake King") was fined by the, US District Court for Rhode Island, for mislabeling his product by not having any snake oil in Snake Oil.

Thanks for giving me the idea of using it for a chain lube. Since the patent has run out on Snake Oil, I could bring it back as a chain lube. I will advertise that you can lube your chain and rub your sore joints after a long ride all from the same bottle.

If any of you would like to join me in this endeavor, just send me $19.95, and I will send you a coupon good for one free bottle as soon as I go into production. However, if I fail to go into production your $19.95 is not refundable.

I will be checking my mail box for your checks. Now don’t disappoint me guys. :)

Will you be using wood turpentine? That actually has some medicinal effects, as does camphor. I haven't seen wood turpentine in the shops here in Finland, in a loooooong, long time. May be different o'er there in yankeeland.

I try not to laugh at my fellow cyclists, but jebus.. I think I would if I saw those on someones bike.Even if they were the fast red ones?

I don't think they're dangerous so much as useless.Since they were clearly not designed by an engineer they might be plenty dangerous.

The inside angle is an excellent place for fatigue to get started.

Older crankarms might have been designed by experience and convention in some cases but this is totally different. Some wacko designed them and he clearly doesn't know much.

The inside angle is an excellent place for fatigue to get started.

Bingo.

Since they were clearly not designed by an engineer they might be plenty dangerous.

The inside angle is an excellent place for fatigue to get started.

Older crankarms might have been designed by experience and convention in some cases but this is totally different. Some wacko designed them and he clearly doesn't know much.

A lot of us understand that--but not having access to the CAD file, the material specs, software that can do finite stress analysis and other typical products to to comparisons with, it is not really accurate to say "I KNOW these cranks will fail."

It is possible that they have some treatment that improves the toughness--not real likely, but possible.

All we might say at this point is that "we think these cranks are dumb, just because cranks bent into an L shape are dumb, even if they were made of a material that would never crack and break".

As for safety I think they would be perfectly safe. There aren't any safety issues for something no one will ever use.