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Frankfurt, Germany - At 300kph (186mph) the ride is silky smooth, the noise level subdued and the handling literally on rails. Outside my window, the pleasant countryside is zipping by, I just bought a cup of coffee from the cafe and my laptop's open on a work desk. While theoretically I could be driving a car at such a speed on a suitable stretch of German autobahn, the laptop and coffee don't fit the picture.
What I am doing is enjoying one of Germany's express trains between Frankfurt and Cologne. The 100-mile journey takes just under an hour (we make one brief stop on route) and I arrive rested, having caught up on work.
The experience is a vivid reminder of something we lack in America; clean, efficient, high-speed trains. For those of us living in the Detroit area, the train I just used would be perfect for connecting our city and Chicago. Imagine being able to travel in comfort from one downtown to the other in just two hours.
Unlike the painful preamble of a plane trip where so much time is wasted in security and safety procedures, with a train (at least in Germany) it's simplicity itself; you get on and go - really fast. For door-to-door elapsed time and lack of stress on a journey like the Detroit to Chicago hop, a high speed train would be unbeatable.
Think of the advantages of such a connection. For us 'Detroiters' the attraction of easy access to a 'real' city like Chicago would be irresistible, but on the other hand I bet it would help make people more willing to visit Detroit.
In reality I know the likelihood of economical and political forces ever coming together to support such a rail link is remote. So in the absence of the train, how about we do the next best thing and make the automotive connection more effective?
As I see it, there are certain point-to-point trips around the US, where freeway connections could be adapted to make high speed automotive travel faster and more efficient. In the case of Detroit to Chicago, my concept would be to upgrade I-94 so that it's capable of supporting a true high speed lane. This would echo the concept of Los Angeles' high-occupancy lanes, which only permit vehicles with two or more occupants. But instead of occupancy, the criteria would be high performance vehicles and specially trained and licensed drivers. To counter those who would complain about catering to the elite, there could be a sizable fee for usage. For the privilege of driving cars perfectly capable of speeds well in excess of 100mph, I'm sure you'd have plenty of takers.
John McCormick is a columnist for Autos Insider and can be reached at jmccormick@detnews.com
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
I'm fortunate enough to have a train station within walking distance of my house and use it frequently to travel to two cities instead of driving. Many people use it daily for commuting. It has the nice feature of allowing people to bring bicycles aboard during commuter hours without a permit.
My area used to be served by four rail lines (the ones in the Monopoly game), but due to the popularity of the automobile (among other things), only the one remains. The right-of-way of one of those defunct lines was sold off to the public. The other two have been converted to multi-use trails. The area suffers from heavy traffic and frequent gridlock & I wonder if the other trains were still running if they would have helped ease the congestion.
It's unfortunate so many railroad ROW's were sold off. Securing land for new rails is a royal pain. That's one of the reasons I'm a big advocate for rails-to-trails. In addition to providing great places to bike/hike, they also preserve that valuable ROW for the future.
Roughstuff
I'm fortunate enough to have a train station within walking distance of my house...
I use the train to visit big cities. Why on earth would ANYONE want to take their car into a NYC, Boston, Philly, etc? I just park at a train station not far from where I live, hop on the train to Boston, and I have the whole city to myself all day without worrying about parking, fines, theft, you name it. It helps that Boston's south station has been so renovated and has coffee shops, newstands, etc so that it actually is relaxing to sit there and wait for your next train back home.
roughstuff
nycm'er
The writer started off well, then got stupid really quick. But it is in keeping with car culture. Me, faster, and at the expense of others and other things. i.e. Because I can afford it, it's my privilige. (to drive 100 miles per hour)
The economical and political forces that he speaks of are the lobbyists paid by the massive corporations headquarted in Detroit. Look no further.
FXjohn
The writer started off well, then got stupid really quick. But it is in keeping with car culture. Me, faster, and at the expense of others and other things. i.e. Because I can afford it, it's my privilige. (to drive 100 miles per hour)
The economical and political forces that he speaks of are the lobbyists paid by the massive corporations headquarted in Detroit. Look no further.
Why is it so stupid? He said there would be a price to pay, and it is a similar concept to the autobahn.
Listen up, Detroit only builds what people will buy, not a tough concept.
teadoggg
I'd love a high-speed train system in the US. I don't know how we became so behind the times in that regaurd.
Oh, and remember, many of the railroad right-of-ways were turned into bike paths. :)
Dahon.Steve
When the train makes the most sense
By John McCormick / Autos Insider
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Frankfurt, Germany - At 300kph (186mph) the ride is silky smooth, the noise level subdued and the handling literally on rails. Outside my window, the pleasant countryside is zipping by, I just bought a cup of coffee from the cafe and my laptop's open on a work desk. While theoretically I could be driving a car at such a speed on a suitable stretch of German autobahn, the laptop and coffee don't fit the picture.
What I am doing is enjoying one of Germany's express trains between Frankfurt and Cologne. The 100-mile journey takes just under an hour (we make one brief stop on route) and I arrive rested, having caught up on work.
The experience is a vivid reminder of something we lack in America; clean, efficient, high-speed trains. For those of us living in the Detroit area, the train I just used would be perfect for connecting our city and Chicago. Imagine being able to travel in comfort from one downtown to the other in just two hours.
Unlike the painful preamble of a plane trip where so much time is wasted in security and safety procedures, with a train (at least in Germany) it's simplicity itself; you get on and go - really fast. For door-to-door elapsed time and lack of stress on a journey like the Detroit to Chicago hop, a high speed train would be unbeatable.
Think of the advantages of such a connection. For us 'Detroiters' the attraction of easy access to a 'real' city like Chicago would be irresistible, but on the other hand I bet it would help make people more willing to visit Detroit.
In reality I know the likelihood of economical and political forces ever coming together to support such a rail link is remote. So in the absence of the train, how about we do the next best thing and make the automotive connection more effective?
As I see it, there are certain point-to-point trips around the US, where freeway connections could be adapted to make high speed automotive travel faster and more efficient. In the case of Detroit to Chicago, my concept would be to upgrade I-94 so that it's capable of supporting a true high speed lane. This would echo the concept of Los Angeles' high-occupancy lanes, which only permit vehicles with two or more occupants. But instead of occupancy, the criteria would be high performance vehicles and specially trained and licensed drivers. To counter those who would complain about catering to the elite, there could be a sizable fee for usage. For the privilege of driving cars perfectly capable of speeds well in excess of 100mph, I'm sure you'd have plenty of takers.
John McCormick is a columnist for Autos Insider and can be reached at jmccormick@detnews.com
The dream of being able to drive over 100 mph on todays highways is a dream. Today's highways are getting more congested because we are putting a million new cars on the road each year and it's outpacing road development. Furthermore, you're never going to get law makers who will dedicate special lanes for cars (Ferraris) that go over 100 mph while traffic a few feet away are traveling 40 or 30 mph! Quite dangerous if you ask me. There are not many people who can afford a 186 mph car so the lane would be empty for the most part at the cost of hundreds of millions in construction costs per mile! I can just see all the accidents happening to those high speed motorists during rush hour once it begins to rain or snow and the road becomes slippery. You just have to deal with the fact that transport by motorcar will get worse as the population grows and there is no cure for traffic congestion.
We do have high speed rail in the U.S. It's called Amtrak's Accela Express. That's All Folks!
I think Amtrak's days are numbered as the Republican administration will not subsidize rail transport like the Europeans. Amtrak does not make a profit but neither does this highspeed line in Germany! We subsidize road construction to the tune of billions of dollars but rail transport must make it's money at the fare box. Unbelievable.
There was a highspeed line on the ballot in Florida but the Republians have all but destroyed any hopes of that ever happening. It would have been the first and only high speed rail line capable of speeds exceeding 125 mph! Instead, they are going to continue wideing lanes until they run out of space or money because what they are doing will not resolve their need for rail transport. California is spending billions reconstructing many of the rail lines dismantled 40 years ago becase they realized massive highway construction was not going to resolve their congestion problems.
nklatt
Why is this in Advocacy & Safety? Why is this on Bike Forums at all?
teadoggg
does anyone know if there is any pro-train legislation or petitions here in the US? Dahonsteve makes an excellent observation : the gov't keeps pouring millions of dollars into updating the roadways, but nary a dollar to rail.
why can't we foolish americans realize we're planning our own demise? Why are we so dependant on cars? I know we like our freedom, but still.. I really doubt Europeans don't want freedom - i think they're just smart enough to realize that there have to be compromises in order for society to thrive - hell - even survive!
When I had a car (i don't anymore - i'm a public transis/bike guy) I loved being able to drive to the store at a moments notice, and be able to stay warm, safe, and listen to good music in volkswagen, but now that I don't do that anymore, i'm much happier. Sure, i've given up a little of my freedow, but life is just easier now. I don't think people realize how much of a burden an automobile can be. We need to get more "euro" and realize a car is a luxury, not a necessity. Treat it as such.
FXjohn
Why is this in Advocacy & Safety? Why is this on Bike Forums at all?
Why wouldn't it be?
isn't part of this section about people driving less??
Dahon.Steve
I'm fortunate enough to have a train station within walking distance of my house and use it frequently to travel to two cities instead of driving. Many people use it daily for commuting. It has the nice feature of allowing people to bring bicycles aboard during commuter hours without a permit.
My area used to be served by four rail lines (the ones in the Monopoly game), but due to the popularity of the automobile (among other things), only the one remains. The right-of-way of one of those defunct lines was sold off to the public. The other two have been converted to multi-use trails. The area suffers from heavy traffic and frequent gridlock & I wonder if the other trains were still running if they would have helped ease the congestion.
It's unfortunate so many railroad ROW's were sold off. Securing land for new rails is a royal pain. That's one of the reasons I'm a big advocate for rails-to-trails. In addition to providing great places to bike/hike, they also preserve that valuable ROW for the future.
Good one.
All the original poster needs to do is get a different job that's within walking/cycling distance from his home. It's as simple as that and you won't need to speed billions for this high speed highway network. You can forget traveling 186 mph on a highway risking your life and the lives of others just to go to work. That's just plain insanity.
There is plenty of rail transport and millions use it each day for work. The original poster can become a part of these millions by simply moving an changing jobs. I'll be honest and state there really is no need for 186 mph high speed rail lines either and I'm pro-rail! The system today works fine but you have to change jobs and move to close to or inside New York City, Boston or Chicago to take advantage of the rich railroad systems. I don't live in NYC but use rail transport all the time.
Why in the world would you want to drive at 186 mph?? Doesn't he see what happens to those Nascar/Indy car drivers when they crash at those speeds? I can see if the poster was going to make 1 million dollars at the end of the race but this is just for a 9 to 5 job for Christ sakes!
FXjohn
Why in the world would you want to drive at 186 mph?? Doesn't he see what happens to those Nascar/Indy car drivers when they crash at those speeds? I can see if the poster was going to make 1 million dollars at the end of the race but this is just for a 9 to 5 job for Christ sakes!
where did you dig up 186mph? he said 100mph in the article
Dahon.Steve
Why wouldn't it be?
isn't part of this section about people driving less??
John is part of the pro-auto group and if you listen to them, they tend to follow the same ideals when it comes to traffic congestion.
1. Spend billions on road construction
2. Dismantle rail lines/light rail for road construction
3. Increase highway speeds to 75mph or more
4. No increases in gas taxes
5. Toll freeways and spend the money on additional road construction
6. Dismantle rapid bus lanes or bus service in general
It's the same song and dance but it will never, I repeat never resolve their never ending need for highway construction.
FXjohn
John is part of the pro-auto group and if you listen to them, they tend to follow the same ideals when it comes to traffic congestion.
1. Spend billions on road construction
2. Dismantle rail lines/light rail for road construction
3. Increase highway speeds to 75mph or more
4. No increases in gas taxes
5. Toll freeways and spend the money on additional road construction
6. Dismantle rapid bus lanes or bus service in general
It's the same song and dance but it will never, I repeat never resolve their never ending need for highway construction.
HUH?? LOL, I just posted a pro train article!!! :eek:
Dahon.Steve
where did you dig up 186mph? he said 100mph in the article
You got a point.
Let me tell you. I've driven lots of American cars and while some can reach 100 mph, most will NOT drive safely at that speed. In fact, at 75 mph, many cars will be all over the road and quite unstable. Just because you have a Corvette, does not mean that car will be safe at 100 mph or more.
Dahon.Steve
HUH?? LOL, I just posted a pro train article!!! :eek:
You have a point.
I still believe the system we have today works. It works for millions who live next to those rail lines and we really don't need to spend billions on a high speed network for cars or trains. Those high speed rail lines in Japan have come under attack because the fare box comes no where near of covering the cost to operate those trains. Speed comes at a tremendous price.
Our only high speed line (Amtrak's Accela) will never be profitable considering high fare box!
What is needed are livable communites where one can work, shop and live within walking distance. That is the ideal and it's far more affordable and realistic than building a high speed railroad or highway.
FXjohn
You have a point.
I still believe the system we have today works. It works for millions who live next to those rail lines and we really don't need to spend billions on a high speed network for cars or trains. Those high speed rail lines in Japan have come under attack because the fare box comes no where near of covering the cost to operate those trains. Speed comes at a tremendous price.
Our only high speed line (Amtrak's Accela) will never be profitable considering high fare box!
What is needed are livable communites where one can work, shop and live within walking distance. That is the ideal and it's far more affordable and realistic than building a high speed railroad or highway.
Sooo..get rid of airplanes and ships too then, right?
r8ingbull
What is needed are livable communites where one can work, shop and live within walking distance. That is the ideal and it's far more affordable and realistic than building a high speed railroad or highway.
Exactly. Why anyone would choose to live so many miles from work (or work so many miles from home) just amazes me. In the winter when the leaves are down, I can actually see my house from work. Being able to ride home for lunch and see the boys is one of my favorite parts of the day. I don't think I could ever give it up.
FXjohn
What is needed are livable communites where one can work, shop and live within walking distance. That is the ideal and it's far more affordable and realistic than building a high speed railroad or highway.
Exactly. Why anyone would choose to live so many miles from work (or work so many miles from home) just amazes me. In the winter when the leaves are down, I can actually see my house from work. Being able to ride home for lunch and see the boys is one of my favorite parts of the day. I don't think I could ever give it up.
What if you are forced to change jobs? What is the maximum acceptable distance away from home?
Is having a nice place to build your home more important than proximity?
Do you move, hoping your job will last you the rest of your life?
HOW FAR IS TOO FAR AWAY??
nklatt
isn't part of this section about people driving less??
I assumed the "advocacy" part was advocating the riding of bikes which could result in less driving but that (driving less) isn't the focus, is it? Aren't there anti-car and car-lite forums elsewhere for that kind of stuff?
Dahon.Steve
Sooo..get rid of airplanes and ships too then, right?
There is a place for everything. I never said get rid of airplanes and ships.
However. We saw the end of supersonic British air travel. It was a luxury that for the most part was unnecessary just like high speed rail. We will always need air transport but low price per ticket will drive many competitors out of business. At that point, we may very well see prices increase to cover operating costs.
You came to a forum where the humble bicycle is probably the slowest vechicle for commuting considering the alternatives. I don't consider my life any less poorer because my life travels at 12 mph. In fact, it's richer. This race for hyper mobility may sound romantic but it comes at a tremendous price.
Your post made me think about my position on high speed rail. I was all for it and now find myself on the side of Jeb Bush! lol
r8ingbull
Sooo..get rid of airplanes and ships too then, right?
That's not even close to what a liveable community is. Imagine if for your daily needs you never had to use a car, since your house, groceries, shopping, and work are all within a few miles of each other. You would use your car, airplanes, ships and trains for the extras (vacations, business trips, etc). Can you honestly say you wouldn't want to live in a place like that?
Dahon.Steve
What if you are forced to change jobs? What is the maximum acceptable distance away from home?
Is having a nice place to build your home more important than proximity?
Do you move, hoping your job will last you the rest of your life?
HOW FAR IS TOO FAR AWAY??
These are important questions.
I can only speak for myself. There is no job out there that can pay me enough money to drive 100 mph on the highway each day. I would take a large paycut as it is if I can work from home. Living in the New York Metro area, I've found many beautiful livable communites within walking/bicycling distance of commuter rail lines. I'm not concerned if my job will last the rest of my life because there are thousands of high paying jobs within 15 miles of my home. In fact, you should know there are no jobs guranteed for life anymore. What determines my ability to remain employed are my education and updated skill set. My commute is about 15 miles and many people at work think I commute too long!
I do feel sorry that you have to need to travel such long distance. I wouldn't keep my expectations on I94 becoming a high speed super highway. You can dream all you want about technology resolving your gridlock problems but I've found my solution and it works well.
FXjohn
These are important questions.
I can only speak for myself. There is no job out there that can pay me enough money to drive 100 mph on the highway each day. I would take a large paycut as it is if I can work from home. Living in the New York Metro area, I've found many beautiful livable communites within walking/bicycling distance of commuter rail lines. I'm not concerned if my job will last the rest of my life because there are thousands of high paying jobs within 15 miles of my home. In fact, you should know there are no jobs guranteed for life anymore. What determines my ability to remain employed are my education and updated skill set. My commute is about 15 miles and many people at work think I commute too long!
I do feel sorry that you have to need to travel such long distance. I wouldn't keep my expectations on I94 becoming a high speed super highway. You can dream all you want about technology resolving your gridlock problems but I've found my solution and it works well.
Actually I don't live that far from work...25 miles. I live out in the country, and my drive is very easy with only 3 traffic lights. To me this is great, when I get home I have beautiful countryside to ride in, not just a bunch of city. I have a great high paying job too, and I hope to retire earlyso i can start biking like crazy.
r8ingbull
What if you are forced to change jobs? What is the maximum acceptable distance away from home?
Is having a nice place to build your home more important than proximity?
Do you move, hoping your job will last you the rest of your life?
HOW FAR IS TOO FAR AWAY??
If forced to change jobs you can work to find a job closer or move closer to your work. Please don't start with how it isn't that easy, jobs aren't that easy to find. Maybe it takes a reduction in standard of living, but jobs are available to those willing to do it. Even if you do take a 20% cut in pay, won't dropping those auto expenses make up for some of it? Not to mention the extra hours you gain each day for the important things in life. I hear people talk about the 45 minute drive to work and I just think about the extra hour and a half I got to spend doing things I love.
Whats the maximum distance for work? For me, 15 minute walk. For others, I have no idea.
Is having a "nice place to build" more important than time spent with your family and protecting our natural assets for your childrens enjoyment?
I know most people don't stay at the same job all their lives, but how many people stay at the same house all their lives?
Your questions are good, but they just go to show how messed up things are. The "good" places to live are in the suburbs, and the places to work are in the downtown area. Maybe it takes some creative thinking to rejuvenate downtown for more than just commercial uses.
FXjohn
If forced to change jobs you can work to find a job closer or move closer to your work. Please don't start with how it isn't that easy, jobs aren't that easy to find. Maybe it takes a reduction in standard of living, but jobs are available to those willing to do it. Even if you do take a 20% cut in pay, won't dropping those auto expenses make up for some of it? Not to mention the extra hours you gain each day for the important things in life. I hear people talk about the 45 minute drive to work and I just think about the extra hour and a half I got to spend doing things I love.
Whats the maximum distance for work? For me, 15 minute walk. For others, I have no idea.
Is having a "nice place to build" more important than time spent with your family and protecting our natural assets for your childrens enjoyment?
I know most people don't stay at the same job all their lives, but how many people stay at the same house all their lives?
Your questions are good, but they just go to show how messed up things are. The "good" places to live are in the suburbs, and the places to work are in the downtown area. Maybe it takes some creative thinking to rejuvenate downtown for more than just commercial uses.
Welll..if you are walking 15 minutes to work one way, you only actually have an extra hour per day, not an hour and a half. No matter what you do to downtown you will have people stacked up in apartment buildings living in rabbit hutches. Ask yourself if you wouldn't rather have a yard, and a lake, and wildlife, if that isn't worth an hour a day. It is. Quality time inisde an apartment building compared to a rural setting? I don't think so. I don't plan on living in debt and wil have my house paid off soon, people that move a lot will never have that option. I drive paid off cars, so my expense is only like 500 dollars per year in insurance....I will keep my 20% of pay, THANK YOU :)
KrisPistofferson
Some of us don't live in Hobbiton! It sounds real nice, walking a few minutes to work, but that's not the reality for most people, and I think it's more profitable to look for solutions to existing problems than to expect people to all of the sudden end commuting altogether, that's incredibly unrealistic. I'm glad you can walk to work each day, it sounds nice, but don't let it give you tunnel vision. I advocate bicycle commuting, but if you NEED an automobile to get to your job, I won't condemn you 'cuz you don't live my way. Most of the people with the luxury of living close to work either own their own business or work from their computer at home, but then there's the WORKING class!
r8ingbull
Welll..if you are walking 15 minutes to work one way, you only actually have an extra hour per day, not an hour and a half. No matter what you do to downtown you will have people stacked up in apartment buildings living in rabbit hutches. Ask yourself if you wouldn't rather have a yard, and a lake, and wildlife, if that isn't worth an hour a day. It is. Quality time inisde an apartment building compared to a rural setting? I don't think so. I don't plan on living in debt and wil have my house paid off soon, people that move a lot will never have that option. I drive paid off cars, so my expense is only like 500 dollars per year in insurance....I will keep my 20% of pay, THANK YOU :)
I walk 6 minutes to work, and that's just because I have to use a bridge to cross a river. You might noticed I said it takes creative thinking, not rabbits in a hutch. I have been places were people have yards and lake access and they still have shopping and work close by. I have 2 acres and a river. I had deer eating trees in my yard last night.
As far as your expenses go, you are WAY off base. I figure a 50 mile roundtrip as a one hour drive, so right their is an automatic 12.5% pay cut (assuming an eight hour day), plus $1500 in gas (if you get 20mpg, which must be close to the average), plus $500 insurance and wear and tear on your car of $1800 (12 cents per mile). I make a good living too, but now that pay cut is starting to look a little bit attractive. Add in the value of time with my family and it blows the money out of the water.
r8ingbull
Some of us don't live in Hobbiton! It sounds real nice, walking a few minutes to work, but that's not the reality for most people, and I think it's more profitable to look for solutions to existing problems than to expect people to all of the sudden end commuting altogether, that's incredibly unrealistic. I'm glad you can walk to work each day, it sounds nice, but don't let it give you tunnel vision. I advocate bicycle commuting, but if you NEED an automobile to get to your job, I won't condemn you 'cuz you don't live my way. Most of the people with the luxury of living close to work either own their own business or work from their computer at home, but then there's the WORKING class!
Nice. You have no idea of the kind of town I live in or the type of job i have. I work in a hardware store. You know, the guy you take broken toilet parts and busted drill bits too. I can't think of many jobs more working class.
You say "if you need an automobile to get to your job", most people don't NEED an auto to get to work, some need one for work, but who really needs one to get to work?
Have you ever been outside the US, ever noticed the masses of people walking and biking?
FXjohn
I walk 6 minutes to work, and that's just because I have to use a bridge to cross a river. You might noticed I said it takes creative thinking, not rabbits in a hutch. I have been places were people have yards and lake access and they still have shopping and work close by. I have 2 acres and a river. I had deer eating trees in my yard last night.
As far as your expenses go, you are WAY off base. I figure a 50 mile roundtrip as a one hour drive, so right their is an automatic 12.5% pay cut (assuming an eight hour day), plus $1500 in gas (if you get 20mpg, which must be close to the average), plus $500 insurance and wear and tear on your car of $1800 (12 cents per mile). I make a good living too, but now that pay cut is starting to look a little bit attractive. Add in the value of time with my family and it blows the money out of the water.
Way off base? I never said anything about gas expense, and I do my own maintenance and it only comes to about 700 dollars every 2 years. Gas is about a hundred a month. Add it all up.
Not EVEN close to 12% of my pay. No traffic, easy drive, takes me about 25 minutes. That's 50 minutes a day verses most peoples' half hour. Whoopppeee, a whole 20 minutes extra you have for your kids to ignore you. It doesn't matter if shopping is close by if you just do your shopping as you commute or once or twice a month on weekends. My job is worth driving to. My home is worth driving to.
FXjohn
Nice. You have no idea of the kind of town I live in or the type of job i have. I work in a hardware store. You know, the guy you take broken toilet parts and busted drill bits too. I can't think of many jobs more working class.
You say "if you need an automobile to get to your job", most people don't NEED an auto to get to work, some need one for work, but who really needs one to get to work?
Have you ever been outside the US, ever noticed the masses of people walking and biking?
So what, that is outside the US. Some people don't like to be crowded in urban areas.
The fact is, most of this country is still sparsely populated.
teadoggg
woah woah woah! come on people!
let's lighten up a bit.
we're all cyclists here, right? let's just be happy about that.
LittleBigMan
Trains are great for catching up on a nap.
Dahon.Steve
It just go to show how messed up things are. The "good" places to live are in the suburbs, and the places to work are in the downtown area. Maybe it takes some creative thinking to rejuvenate downtown for more than just commercial uses.
Downtowns are being rejuvenated all over the country. In New Jersey, real estate developers have run out of room in the burbs are are focusing their efforts in the inner city. The same is happening in the New York and in major cities! Homes are being built everywhere including the slums as abondoned lots are targeted by developers.
In my small neck of New Jersey, they rejuvenated land that was an abondoned rail yard and converted into a mixed use community with a large shopping mall, luxury condos and nice resturants. I've seen large open spaces in the South Bronx (a slum) developed with rows of single family homes. It's incredible what's happening in our life times as cities are being recreated all over again.
There are those that have homes in the burbs with short commute times. Wonderful. Unfortunately, that liftstyle is coming to an end as subdivisions and urban sprawl have created massive gridlock. It used to be that buying a home in the burbs was an inexpensive alternative to the high cost of city living. Not anymore. The price of real estate in the burbs often equals or exceeds new homes in the city!.
We are looking at a major shift in land use within the next 25 years as people reclaim the cities as their ancestors did 100 years ago. These are exciting times.
nycm'er
The article IS stupid. A 12 year old's car fetish wet dream, and I don't think I am being rude in saying so. The article is not a pro high speed train article, it is a Robert Moses car utopia pipe dream article. It does not explain how many people will not be able to afford the vehicle to use on such an unimportant upgrade at the public's expense. I haven't owned a car for 11 years now- I luckily haven't needed to. I don't buy gas, but I pay for it everyday, it is called the U.S. Defense Budget. The Republican government is killing Amtrak, which employs thousands and raises millions in tax revenue. Dahon.Steve my hat is off to your very good pro-train points.
John, tell me about your suburban hell community where everyone has a lake and large yards? Where you have to drive everywhere just to get anywhere, and when you get there the stores are box or franchise garbage. Just think, are those stores there because that is what people want, (as in Detroit) or because that is what people get? I envy the poster who can meet his kids for lunch. I live in the largest metropolis in the country, yet I am a country boy, but this is where I can make a living. So I have to make this choice to live here in a "rabbit hutch". The city isn't for everyone, but is suburban sprawl the answer? Now I have to pay for Suburbanite luxuries like gas, and their privileged ability to drive in my town ( and stress municipal services) when they could have taken a train or bus. But taking a train or a bus is such a hassle isn't it? The "Freedom of the Road" is going to kill all of us if we keep it up, keep driving and sprawling.
Dahon.Steve
Welll..if you are walking 15 minutes to work one way, you only actually have an extra hour per day, not an hour and a half. No matter what you do to downtown you will have people stacked up in apartment buildings living in rabbit hutches. Ask yourself if you wouldn't rather have a yard, and a lake, and wildlife, if that isn't worth an hour a day. It is. Quality time inisde an apartment building compared to a rural setting? I don't think so. I don't plan on living in debt and wil have my house paid off soon, people that move a lot will never have that option. I drive paid off cars, so my expense is only like 500 dollars per year in insurance....I will keep my 20% of pay, THANK YOU :)
I live in the city where there are plenty of single family homes available with yards. We also have luxury condos and coops if that's the lifestyle you want. We don't have a lake but the park has a nice pond and we are just two blocks away from the river where you can see the Statue of Liberty. I guess we don't have wildlife but you can't have everything. It seems like you have it made. Good for you.
FXJohn, Let me ask you something.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you're the one who created this post about high speed railroads and highways? Am I correct?
If things were so great in your part of the woods, why would you want something so costly? Why would you want the government, city and state to spend billions of tax dollars for an expensive transit or highway super system? These are luxuries that cities and states across the nation can no longer afford. Furthermore, they are not necessary because the current rail system is enough for those who want to take advantage mass transit. It may require relocating or changing jobs but you'll find the initial sacrifice well worth it in the long run. I had the feeling you were located in a remote area so far removed from the cities, you needed an expensive transport system. I see that I'm wrong.
Personally, I don't want to see such wasteful transit/highway systems built ever in my lifetime. Cities and states have far more needs that must be addressed like affordable housing for the elderly than moving people at incredible speeds. States need to focus on Smarth growth development in and around cities so that we don't need to hit 125 mph on the freeway to reach home at a decent hour. If someone needs a bullet train to go home from work, they're doing it all wrong. They're just doing it wong.
FXjohn
The article IS stupid. A 12 year old's car fetish wet dream, and I don't think I am being rude in saying so. The article is not a pro high speed train article, it is a Robert Moses car utopia pipe dream article. It does not explain how many people will not be able to afford the vehicle to use on such an unimportant upgrade at the public's expense. I haven't owned a car for 11 years now- I luckily haven't needed to. I don't buy gas, but I pay for it everyday, it is called the U.S. Defense Budget. The Republican government is killing Amtrak, which employs thousands and raises millions in tax revenue. Dahon.Steve my hat is off to your very good pro-train points.
John, tell me about your suburban hell community where everyone has a lake and large yards? Where you have to drive everywhere just to get anywhere, and when you get there the stores are box or franchise garbage. Just think, are those stores there because that is what people want, (as in Detroit) or because that is what people get? I envy the poster who can meet his kids for lunch. I live in the largest metropolis in the country, yet I am a country boy, but this is where I can make a living. So I have to make this choice to live here in a "rabbit hutch". The city isn't for everyone, but is suburban sprawl the answer? Now I have to pay for Suburbanite luxuries like gas, and their privileged ability to drive in my town ( and stress municipal services) when they could have taken a train or bus. But taking a train or a bus is such a hassle isn't it? The "Freedom of the Road" is going to kill all of us if we keep it up, keep driving and sprawling.
I don't live in a suburban hell community. More like a small house in the woods on a lake.
This has nothing to do with store or franchise garbage. They don't have any where you live huh? Wherever that is. The guy who meets his kids for lunch works at a hardware store, is that something you can't do unless you live in the country's largest metropolis? Do you really think you get the most for your money there? I guess you either don't own a house, or flush your money down the drain in rent?
Now you're saying "take the train" but the article sucked? LOL
Nice try trying to paint me with a broad brush and into the target of your hatred.
I do not live in the suburbs and I am not responsible for walmart. I am sure you buy the same mass produced crap the rest of us do
FXjohn
I live in the city where there are plenty of single family homes available with yards. We also have luxury condos and coops if that's the lifestyle you want. We don't have a lake but the park has a nice pond and we are just two blocks away from the river where you can see the Statue of Liberty. I guess we don't have wildlife but you can't have everything. It seems like you have it made. Good for you.
FXJohn, Let me ask you something.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you're the one who created this post about high speed railroads and highways? Am I correct?
If things were so great in your part of the woods, why would you want something so costly? Why would you want the government, city and state to spend billions of tax dollars for an expensive transit or highway super system? These are luxuries that cities and states across the nation can no longer afford. Furthermore, they are not necessary because the current rail system is enough for those who want to take advantage mass transit. It may require relocating or changing jobs but you'll find the initial sacrifice well worth it in the long run. I had the feeling you were located in a remote area so far removed from the cities, you needed an expensive transport system. I see that I'm wrong.
Personally, I don't want to see such wasteful transit/highway systems built ever in my lifetime. Cities and states have far more needs that must be addressed like affordable housing for the elderly than moving people at incredible speeds. States need to focus on Smarth growth development in and around cities so that we don't need to hit 125 mph on the freeway to reach home at a decent hour. If someone needs a bullet train to go home from work, they're doing it all wrong. They're just doing it wong.
Why could we not use hybrid trains, or alternative energy trains instead of smoke belching semi trucks.
You are as responsible for them tooling up and down the road as I am.
Why would not the bullet train be good for traveling city to city, or across the country in lieu of airplanes?
How many people in NJ have 2 hour commutes? That is not the fault of people who live in rural areas and drive 20 miles or less to work. The elderly has nothing to do with this LOL
Good news to hear that you are staying in the cities. It would suck if I lost my peace and quiet.
r8ingbull
I don't live in a suburban hell community. More like a small house in the woods on a lake.
This has nothing to do with store or franchise garbage. They don't have any where you live huh? Wherever that is. The guy who meets his kids for lunch works at a hardware store, is that something you can't do unless you live in the country's largest metropolis? Do you really think you get the most for your money there? I guess you either don't own a house, or flush your money down the drain in rent?
Now you're saying "take the train" but the article sucked? LOL
Nice try trying to paint me with a broad brush and into the target of your hatred.
I do not live in the suburbs and I am not responsible for walmart. I am sure you buy the same mass produced crap the rest of us do
Your view of things around you seems very sheltered and shallow. "that's not the US, so who cares". You honestly don't seem like you have a clue about the way things work. I strongly recommend that you read a booktitled "Collapse" by Jared Diamond. He is a pullitzer prize winning author, in this book he shows the ways that a society can be destroyed by many factors, the main ones being poor land/resources managment, environmental change, abandonment by trading partners, and wars. Do any of those things sound familiar to you? I know someone is going to say how that has nothing to do with trains or living in the suburbs, but it does. Your over use of resources and abuse of our economic system is doing incredible harm to you, me, and everyone else.
I don't know you, or your family, but I think you might want to print this thread and show it to your wife and kids. I know I would be shocked if my dad wrote something about not wanting to see his kids because they just ignore him anyway. Maybe that extra 50 minutes could really come in handy to make an attempt to reconnect to the inportant things.
r8ingbull
I am not responsible for walmart. I am sure you buy the same mass produced crap the rest of us do
No, I don't. I have actually never bought anything from a Walmart, or K-mart, or Target. I wear mainly quality american made clothes (since I feel they last longer, not because of where they are made), eat mainly fresh food purchased at a local farmers market/small grocery or from local restaurants, every piece of furniture in my house is second hand, and you know what? I still feel like a very rich man.
You sound like an educated person. Like you went to a nice college. Did you stop learning after you got out? Do you just not care about anyone else? Do a little research on the damages your lifestyle causes, I think you would be amazed.
FXjohn
No, I don't. I have actually never bought anything from a Walmart, or K-mart, or Target. I wear mainly quality american made clothes (since I feel they last longer, not because of where they are made), eat mainly fresh food purchased at a local farmers market/small grocery or from local restaurants, every piece of furniture in my house is second hand, and you know what? I still feel like a very rich man.
You sound like an educated person. Like you went to a nice college. Did you stop learning after you got out? Do you just not care about anyone else? Do a little research on the damages your lifestyle causes, I think you would be amazed.
Just because you bought your furniture secondhand, does not mean it was not made in a sweatshop.
I'm sure if I looked in your cupboards I'd find the same mass market processed food that everyone buys, from crackers to spices. You're condemning everyone who lives in this whole state excluding perhaps Indianapolis.
I know my lifestyle is not the culprit. I save more money than anyone else I know. I'll be retired in 10 years, house paid off in 2. I don't go to Walmart because I don't think the food looks good.
If I wanted to buy paint or something there, I wouldn't feel guilty. I live in a small house on a couple acres and drive a car with 200,000 miles on it. My furniture is almost all inherited from my grandparents.
I'm not the bad guy you're looking for.
FXjohn
Your view of things around you seems very sheltered and shallow. "that's not the US, so who cares". You honestly don't seem like you have a clue about the way things work. I strongly recommend that you read a booktitled "Collapse" by Jared Diamond. He is a pullitzer prize winning author, in this book he shows the ways that a society can be destroyed by many factors, the main ones being poor land/resources managment, environmental change, abandonment by trading partners, and wars. Do any of those things sound familiar to you? I know someone is going to say how that has nothing to do with trains or living in the suburbs, but it does. Your over use of resources and abuse of our economic system is doing incredible harm to you, me, and everyone else.
I don't know you, or your family, but I think you might want to print this thread and show it to your wife and kids. I know I would be shocked if my dad wrote something about not wanting to see his kids because they just ignore him anyway. Maybe that extra 50 minutes could really come in handy to make an attempt to reconnect to the inportant things.
The fact of the matter is I'm single by choice. You missed a very important factor that is detroying the earth that no one wants to talk about and that i am not contributing to.
Overpopulation.
cicadashell
The fact of the matter is I'm single by choice. You missed a very important factor that is detroying the earth that no one wants to talk about and that i am not contributing to.
Overpopulation.
uh oh...please let's not go there.
the article really wasn't pro-train - the writer acknowledged that trains were a good idea, but dismissed their application in the states without any real analysis. then he proposed his silly idea about high-speed lanes with super-drivers in super-cars, and made the laughable statement about countering claims of elitism by charging high fees. that actually bolsters the claim of elitism, doesn't it? anyway, i don't want to fight about where you should be living, fxjohn. maybe you stopped reading the article before you got to the end.
FXjohn
uh oh...please let's not go there.
Oh, I see, let's take potshots at someone for destroying the environment, but let's not identify the real problem.
r8ingbull
Overpopulation.
your barking up the wrong tree here. My girlfriend and I are having a kid. Just one, no more. I told her if she really wants more, we can think about adoption.
You really seem like a nice guy, I hope you don't take any of these post as an attack on you. Now that guy talking about hobbittown and working class people kinda pissed me off.
FXjohn
your barking up the wrong tree here. My girlfriend and I are having a kid. Just one, no more. I told her if she really wants more, we can think about adoption.
You really seem like a nice guy, I hope you don't take any of these post as an attack on you. Now that guy talking about hobbittown and working class people kinda pissed me off.
The overpopulation wasn't a shot at you, it was stating what the real source of stress on environment and resources are.
teadoggg
Overpopulation? You heard it here first, folks!
Honestly! It's beyond me how anyone can go along with that BS. It's not overpopulation, it's mis-management of the space we are currently using. Look how much of the world is still empty. We need to just start making better use of our space, and train ourselves to conserve our resources better, not limit our baby-making.
bkbroil
I probably live closer to work than anyone. I work from home.......I actually increased my standard of living after leaving my position as a Vice President of a software firm......but....I do travel about once every two weeks for a day or two....and when I travel I must use planes, trains or automobiles... I use the Accela Express line all the time and I love it....
My former job was a 1 hour commute each way in high traffic just to get to a high stress job in which I would start at 7:00am and return home after 9:00pm (daily)...This was at a time when my children were 2 and 3 years old.... I was used to this lifestyle because it was all I knew, and the people that I worked with all were in the same situation. It was like a cult. You were considered "weak" if you had family things to attend to instead of staying and "working hard". You were rewarded for working at home in the off hours and staying at work extremly late.
Then.....one weekendI decided to build a retaining wall in my backyard to create a garden and the only time that I could work on excavating the ground (with just a mattock and shovel) was after I got home from work. I started at 9:00pm every night and dug and dug until 11:00pm every night. It took me 2 months to complete this small project but the outcome was something that changed my life......
One night as I was digging and doing this physical labor when I realized that I absolutely couldn't wait to get home every night to work on this project. I used this work as a psychologists couch. :) The physical labor became a stress reliever and allowed me to think about life. Yeah, I was working hard...but there is not alot of thought required when repetitively digging or chopping....so my mind would go off and think about the things that really needed attention... Like -- "How far is too far to work from home?" -- "What is really important in regards to money, family and career?" That's when I decided....I'm going into business for myself!
It wasn't an overnight thing....it took me months of building up the guts to attempt it..(that's what I thought about most while building my retaining wall / garden).. ("How am I going to do this? Am I off my rocker?")
It's not easy -- at all! But, I can say after a 10 year layoff from the bicycle..I now ride my bicycle each and every day (mostly), I'm healthier today than I have been in 10 years, I have full control over the hours that I put in to work and when I put them in.....but most importantly --- I know my wife and children better than I could have ever imagined.
The funny part about my children is that they don't really remember a time when I used to leave for work every morning (they're 5 and 6 now)...All they've ever known is that Dad is always at home....and sometimes we have to be very quiet while he is on a "work" phone call...:)
I realize that I am very fortunate and that this situation could change any day...so I look forward to every day that I am able to do this and try to make the most of it...because before I realize it....I may be back in that 1 hour commute and wondering about what it would be like to "ride today"
One thing that won't change, no matter the situation....I will never have a 10 year layoff from the bicycle again!
Boy -- was that a ramble or what? LOL :)
FOG
I'm fortunate enough to have a train station within walking distance of my house and use it frequently to travel to two cities instead of driving. Many people use it daily for commuting. It has the nice feature of allowing people to bring bicycles aboard during commuter hours without a permit.
My area used to be served by four rail lines (the ones in the Monopoly game), but due to the popularity of the automobile (among other things), only the one remains. The right-of-way of one of those defunct lines was sold off to the public. The other two have been converted to multi-use trails. The area suffers from heavy traffic and frequent gridlock & I wonder if the other trains were still running if they would have helped ease the congestion.
It's unfortunate so many railroad ROW's were sold off. Securing land for new rails is a royal pain. That's one of the reasons I'm a big advocate for rails-to-trails. In addition to providing great places to bike/hike, they also preserve that valuable ROW for the future.The railroads probably would not be in such a hurry to abandon lines if the lines were not subject to real estate taxes. Under the law the communities are not supposed to tax railroads at a higher rate than other land, but they still do. In one merger case, a community objected to the merger because it said the railroad might abandon its line and that line was the largest single source of revenue for the county! Instead of subsidizing railroads, which may be a dubious idea, we tax them to death, an incredibly stupid idea, and then wonder why our railroads don't do all the things that European railroads do. It is amazing what our railroads do in spite of the existing burden. They carry as much freight in a day as Europe's railroads carry in a year, at rates seventy percent less than those of European railroads. We would need to double the number of trcks in this country if we were to haul all the freight without railroads. Maybe they don't haul passengers, but they sure do get a lot of trucks off the roads.
FOG
The dream of being able to drive over 100 mph on todays highways is a dream. Today's highways are getting more congested because we are putting a million new cars on the road each year and it's outpacing road development. Furthermore, you're never going to get law makers who will dedicate special lanes for cars (Ferraris) that go over 100 mph while traffic a few feet away are traveling 40 or 30 mph! Quite dangerous if you ask me. There are not many people who can afford a 186 mph car so the lane would be empty for the most part at the cost of hundreds of millions in construction costs per mile! I can just see all the accidents happening to those high speed motorists during rush hour once it begins to rain or snow and the road becomes slippery. You just have to deal with the fact that transport by motorcar will get worse as the population grows and there is no cure for traffic congestion.
We do have high speed rail in the U.S. It's called Amtrak's Accela Express. That's All Folks!
I think Amtrak's days are numbered as the Republican administration will not subsidize rail transport like the Europeans. Amtrak does not make a profit but neither does this highspeed line in Germany! We subsidize road construction to the tune of billions of dollars but rail transport must make it's money at the fare box. Unbelievable.
There was a highspeed line on the ballot in Florida but the Republians have all but destroyed any hopes of that ever happening. It would have been the first and only high speed rail line capable of speeds exceeding 125 mph! Instead, they are going to continue wideing lanes until they run out of space or money because what they are doing will not resolve their need for rail transport. California is spending billions reconstructing many of the rail lines dismantled 40 years ago becase they realized massive highway construction was not going to resolve their congestion problems.Northeast Corridor service is at speeds up to 150 mph today, on Acela, between Boston and NEw York, with speeds up to 135 mph between New York and Washington.