Touring - Ideas needed: On frame Water Bladder

Finishing up a tour in Australia, and I've really found that carrying a lot of water to be a really big pain in the butt. I started out with 3, 2L water bags (which all died, mostly user error) plus 2 water bottles. I've had a hard time putting a lot of water on my bike. So the brain has been thinking hard for awhile.

So what I'm looking for information/ideas on is I want to build a water carrying system that utilizes the the inside frame of Surly Troll. My best idea is getting a custom frame made/build it myself, and throw a big water bladder inside (want about 4 to 6 litres in the frame).

Looking for other ideas/products for the frame bag and water bladder? All I know is Camelback as a brand

Note: 16" Surly Troll, rear rack, 2 water cages mounted to the front fork (water/fuel bottle), a pair of Arkel rear panniers

Why not just strap a hard plastic container to the top of your rack, cushioned with foam?

Something similar to this:

http://www.newwaveenviro.com/bmz_cache/4/488b06480d23f2040047c5247d61f29c.image.250x250.jpg

...So what I'm looking for information/ideas on is I want to build a water carrying system that utilizes the the inside frame of Surly Troll. My best idea is getting a custom frame made/build it myself, and throw a big water bladder inside (want about 4 to 6 litres in the frame)..

That's a bad idea, even here on bf.net touring, where there is an unending supply of fresh and recycled bad ideas.

Try a MSR bladder:

http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/water-treatment-and-hydration/expedition-water-treatment-and-hydration/dromedary-bags/product

Another way would be a basket on top of rack (http://waldsports.qbsoft.com/index.cfm/wald585rearbasket.html) loaded with water or soda bottles.

My front rack has a shelf on the top that I use to hold a (rear) rack bag. I can't use a handlebar bag because of in-line brake levers that protrude into the space where a handlebar bag would sit.

If instead of a bag full of tools, lotions, odds and ends, I decide to fit a camelback bladder into it, I would have what you are describing.

Maybe that would work for you.

Finishing up a tour in Australia, and I've really found that carrying a lot of water to be a really big pain in the butt. I started out with 3, 2L water bags (which all died, mostly user error) plus 2 water bottles. I've had a hard time putting a lot of water on my bike. So the brain has been thinking hard for awhile.

So what I'm looking for information/ideas on is I want to build a water carrying system that utilizes the the inside frame of Surly Troll. My best idea is getting a custom frame made/build it myself, and throw a big water bladder inside (want about 4 to 6 litres in the frame).

Looking for other ideas/products for the frame bag and water bladder? All I know is Camelback as a brand

Note: 16" Surly Troll, rear rack, 2 water cages mounted to the front fork (water/fuel bottle), a pair of Arkel rear panniers
I've found that 1.5 liter PETE bottles (the type often used for spring water) work very well. There are bottle cages that are designed for them. The bottles also fit well in some pannier pockets. I can carry eleven of these bottles on my highest capacity expedition steed (seven on the frame, four in pannier pockets). If I utilize the insides of panniers, there's room for more. These bottles can also be strapped on top of racks.

For reserve capacity, I like wine bladders carried inside panniers.

Using cable ties, extra btl cages can be strapped to many places on a bicycle frame. The bladder out of a wine box can be easy bungied to a rear rack top. When the wine is gone.........

My water carrying problems were solved when I went bent. The seat back frame is a storage area that will hold 4 2 liter bags, wine or water.

in '05 this fellow added an Xtrawheel trailer to allow for space for more water to be carried.

http://wildworks.co.nz/csr/home.php http://www.extrawheel.com/wyprawy_en.php

Lots of people doing ultra races are putting water bladders inside of a frame bag like this with great results http://www.porcelainrocket.com/products/frame-packs/

You can use the MSR bladders or even a camel back bladder and route the hose outside the bag so you can still drink from it while riding.

Just noticed you are riding a troll, these guys do one that does not have to be custom made to fit a troll. https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=store.catalog&CategoryID=1&ProductID=16

Make/buy/steal a frame bag and put a bladder in it?

The ogre has 6 bottle cages. You could always put some cages on the fork. I have a Topeak Modula cage, fits a 1/ 1.5 liter bottle and is adjustable.

For reserve capacity, I like wine bladders carried inside panniers.

Awesome idea!

4-6 liters might be a bit much, but 3-4 is pretty doable. The Troll frame allows enough space for a water bladder plus some other stuff (e.g. some food), although yours is smaller than mine (I have 18 inch). I have a custom framebag from Greg Wheelwright in Boulder, but you can also get the Revelate ones that already fit the Troll. Also, try making use of extra spots for water bottles - bottle cage on top of the stem, bottle cages hoseclamped onto the fork, bottle cage hoseclamped onto the bottom of the frame.

I love having a framebag. It's perfect for day rides and along with a handlebar roll and, in winter, rear rack with stuff on top, becomes a pretty solid "bikepacking" setup.

Yeah, I was thinking 6L is a bit much for inside my frame, likely going to just use a 4L type bag. Really liking the MSR water bag linked here, thanks!

Already have as many water bottle cages as the bike will let me have, the front fork is already holding my fuel bottle and a water bottle.

Ideas, ideas..... So many ideas I want to try!

I'd go with a big hydration pack, 70 oz or 100oz, and carry the rest.

If you really can't stand hydration backpacks, I'd go with a Showers Pass VelEau or a NeverReach. They are bladders that are mounted on the seatpost, and hold 1-2 liters of water.

http://www.showerspass.com/veleau-1

http://www.neverreach.com/NeverReachPro.html

http://www.showerspass.com/sites/showerspass.com/files/tools-gold.jpg

http://www.neverreach.com/i/NeverReach/Paul_Fritzsche_website.jpg

That's a decent volume of water, so you shouldn't need to refill them too often. Keep another 2-3 liters in your Dromedary bags.

4 liters of water weighs roughly 9 pounds. Keep in mind that putting that kind of weight in a frame pack may affect handling.

On the GDMBR I bungied a partially filled 10L dromedary bladder on my rear rack under my tent. I'd fill it with no more than 5 liters and remove any air. This would allow it to conform to the space it had available and the tent nested quite nicely in/on it. During the day I would use a hose from the bladder to refill my much easier to reach bottle(s). I would also use the hose to refill the bladder while it was still on the bike using my MSR filter.

On my initial tour month-long tour of the Mojave desert, I carried a 6L MSR Dromedary on the inside frame of my MTB, plus 2 more 6L dromedaries in the rear panniers, plus a .5L bottle on the inside frame, for a total of about 16 liters (6L MSR Dromedaries can only be filled to about 5.5L without spilling). Carrying a bladder on the inside frame will abrade paint, normally not a problem with aluminum frames, and possibly damage the brake and shifter cables depending on how the bosses are setup. I have since upgraded to a Thorn Nomad MKII touring bike and no longer carry water in the frame since I now have front racks and front panniers for extra water bladders, so my capacity now is 23L (and I sometimes need that much). Be careful with carrying just a single water bladder. Even the MSR Dromedaries, by far the most reliable bladders, can leak. In particular, thorns will go right through the bladder fabric and make a puncture hole. This can be fixed by smearing seamgrip on either inside, outside or both sides of bladder around the puncture (I've tried this method and it works) or possibly with your bike flat repair kit (haven't tried this myself).

Lots of people doing ultra races are putting water bladders inside of a frame bag like this with great results http://www.porcelainrocket.com/products/frame-packs/


Holy Moley!
Those frame bags are pricey!

Holy Moley!
Those frame bags are pricey!

I see sewing machines at Charity Shops often

You can always trust Ortlieb http://www.bikebagshop.com/ortlieb-water-bags-c-36.html