Advocacy & Safety - Never enter between two vehicles close by (esp. if they are long) - my experience tod

Tonight I had a small scare. I was riding to the right side of a parked, very long box truck unloading for a supermarket. A bus, also quite long, came along on my right, passing me, continued forward and slightly tilted to the left, getting closer to that box truck, so I was sandwiched between the two long vehicles shaped like /\ , with very narrow gap between them (gap getting narrower forward). I got off, stood still to wait for the bus to pass, praying that it would not touch me, and that the box truck, wholse wheels were extremely close to me, would not suddenly start moving. Thank the Lord there was a red light and the bus was very slow (or perhaps the driver saw me? I don't know). As soon as the last portion of the bus passed me and I started riding, the box truck started moving, too. Perhaps the box trucker driver also saw me and waited? No idea. But this was a lesson for me to avoid such situation in future. Long vehicles are dreadful.:twitchy:

Should have taken the lane in that situation, would have avoided the problem.

Daven

Should have taken the lane in that situation, would have avoided the problem.

Daven

not really. bus drivers pass in all sorts of ill advised situations and seem to all have a lack of awareness of the rear ends of their vehicles while passing cyclists. clear at the front, all good! seems the driving style i see by bus drivers.

Many drivers are in much more of a hurry than bicyclists to get to stops, too. Many take a bicyclist slowing and coasting to an intersection as an invitation to pass.

I've even had bus drivers miss a stop and start letting people out in the middle of an intersection because he misjudged my speed while passing. Didn't want to wait to get to the bus stop, but cut a bicyclist off to discharge passangers in an intersection

not really. bus drivers pass in all sorts of ill advised situations and seem to all have a lack of awareness of the rear ends of their vehicles while passing cyclists. clear at the front, all good! seems the driving style i see by bus drivers.

Many drivers are in much more of a hurry than bicyclists to get to stops, too. Many take a bicyclist slowing and coasting to an intersection as an invitation to pass.

I've even had bus drivers miss a stop and start letting people out in the middle of an intersection because he misjudged my speed while passing. Didn't want to wait to get to the bus stop, but cut a bicyclist off to discharge passangers in an intersectionNone of your post refutes the wisdom of taking the lane to prevent a bus from improperly passing and endangering the OP.

good point, but :rolleyes: the OP didn't mention lane position.

i add to the discussion, CBHI, that taking the lane doesn't always stop this type of traffic maneuver.

Lane position may discourage but certainly doesn'tprevent buses giving cyclists the squeeze. Prevailing wisdom in the bicycling community is that some bus drivers operate negligently around bicyclists, and that transit vehicles regularly put the squeeze play on bicyclists as they pull around.

I think it has something to do with the length of their vehicle, but who HASN'T had passenger cars do the same thing even while controlling the lane and coasting to a stop?

It's pretty common. Motorist sees bicyclist slowing ahead, motorist speeds up to attempt a pass approaching the stop. As soon as the front end passes the cyclist, a common motorist misconception is they then have right of way to squeeeze back into the lane.

No misconception on the squeeze play by many motorists, just plain impatience using "might is right".

I have had mixed experience with buses. I'd say that most drivers are good about not passing me when they approach a stop, but they will roll along side. Deciding when to take the lane is difficult. You shouldn't be taking the lane anytime a bus comes up behind you - it may have no planned stops. It is a good strategy, though, when you can reliably anticipate an upcoming stop. This does require some experience on the route.

School buses are the worst for me in terms of driver behavior - I had one force me over into a crowd of waiting students once (and in that case, my video cam freed up that driver's future). Their stops are much more predictable, however; and I generally will stay in front of them

-G

I have had mixed experience with buses. I'd say that most drivers are good about not passing me when they approach a stop, but they will roll along side. Deciding when to take the lane is difficult. You shouldn't be taking the lane anytime a bus comes up behind you - it may have no planned stops. It is a good strategy, though, when you can reliably anticipate an upcoming stop. This does require some experience on the route.

School buses are the worst for me in terms of driver behavior - I had one force me over into a crowd of waiting students once (and in that case, my video cam freed up that driver's future). Their stops are much more predictable, however; and I generally will stay in front of them

-G

Can you give more detail on this?

Ive had mixed experiences with busses. I encounter a few of them every day here in Louisville. Just like anything else, some are OK, some are aggressive and dangerous. But, the worst by far are school busses. Mostly negative interactions with them. I dont have issues with them because I go out of my way to avoid them when I hear/see them coming. I'm pretty thick skinned these days, but a School bus driver in Florida that repeatedly buzzed me on A1 was the only time I called an organization and reported someone that was a hazard.

None of your post refutes the wisdom of taking the lane to prevent a bus from improperly passing and endangering the OP.

I've seen quite a few examples of helmet cam videos - in particular, I think, from GB - of cyclist taking the lane being squeezed by cars, lorries, or buses.

Should have taken the lane in that situation, would have avoided the problem.

Daven
not really. bus drivers pass in all sorts of ill advised situations and seem to all have a lack of awareness of the rear ends of their vehicles while passing cyclists. clear at the front, all good! seems the driving style i see by bus drivers.

Many drivers are in much more of a hurry than bicyclists to get to stops, too. Many take a bicyclist slowing and coasting to an intersection as an invitation to pass.

I've even had bus drivers miss a stop and start letting people out in the middle of an intersection because he misjudged my speed while passing. Didn't want to wait to get to the bus stop, but cut a bicyclist off to discharge passangers in an intersection

I definitely agree with taking the lane. Because, Last week, a county school bus driver was 'sitting on their horn', trying to make me get out of the way on a two-lane blacktop not wide enough for passing ing the first place(as if a cyclist had nothing important to do). I didn't budge. I reported the driver to the school system, when I got home. That school bus driver has not bothered me again.

Tonight I had a small scare. I was riding to the right side of a parked, very long box truck unloading for a supermarket. A bus, also quite long, came along on my right, passing me, continued forward and slightly tilted to the left, getting closer to that box truck, so I was sandwiched between the two long vehicles shaped like /\ , with very narrow gap between them (gap getting narrower forward). I got off, stood still to wait for the bus to pass, praying that it would not touch me, and that the box truck, wholse wheels were extremely close to me, would not suddenly start moving. Thank the Lord there was a red light and the bus was very slow (or perhaps the driver saw me? I don't know). As soon as the last portion of the bus passed me and I started riding, the box truck started moving, too. Perhaps the box trucker driver also saw me and waited? No idea. But this was a lesson for me to avoid such situation in future. Long vehicles are dreadful.:twitchy:

Take the lane.

I was taking a lane, though not in the middle of the lane (on the left part). It's a one-way street. Box truck on the leftmost lane parked, unloading merchanise; I was on the 2nd lane from the left. The bus just left the bus stop and seems to be trying to enter my lane in front of me, but got too close to me too early:

|_\
| o \
| __\
truck me bus

I was taking a lane, though not in the middle of the lane (on the left part). It's a one-way street. Box truck on the leftmost lane parked, unloading merchanise; I was on the 2nd lane from the left. The bus just left the bus stop and seems to be trying to enter my lane in front of me, but got too close to me too early:

|_\
| o \
| __\
truck me bus


Sounds like the possibility that you may have been overlooked, what measures do you use "to be seen"?

I couldn't have been overlooked. I had both bright headlight and bright flashing taillight, both are new lights with new batteries. The bus was going slow, having just departed a stop behind me on my right.

Sounds like the possibility that you may have been overlooked, what measures do you use "to be seen"?

I'm not sure you can force anyone to see you no matter what you do. Some motorists, particularly bus drivers, just refuse to engage their brains while driving.

It takes effort to see cyclists and pedestrians. As long as there are almost no consequences for terrorizing uncaged humans, why should motorists put out the extra effort to drive attentively?

I've seen quite a few examples of helmet cam videos - in particular, I think, from GB - of cyclist taking the lane being squeezed by cars, lorries, or buses.Is that why you hide on the MUP. If you start out in the lane and a motorist starts to squeeze a cyclist, the cyclist at least has room and time to react for their safety. If the cyclist starts out at the edge of the road when the squeeze starts, there is NO room or time to react before your off the road without other options.

Is that why you hide on the MUP.

Eh? Very, VERY few MUPs round here. Bike paths, of course. No squeezing (except in the few places where cyclists share lanes with motorized traffic, like right turn lanes, and those are being (slowly, slowly) phased out)*


If you start out in the lane and a motorist starts to squeeze a cyclist, the cyclist at least has room and time to react for their safety. If the cyclist starts out at the edge of the road when the squeeze starts, there is NO room or time to react before your off the road without other options.

True. But as always there are compromises involved. Taking the lane has its advantages (at times) and its disadvantages. I've pointed out the disadvantages several times, so I don't think this is the thread to go over it once more.


*: This is on urban streets, where most right turns are sufficiently sharp for a squeeze to be relatively harmless unless it's a bus or a lorry. The latter have been tha cause of a relatively high percentage of the (relatively very few) fatalities in Copenhagen bike traffic during the last 5-10 years, but most of the dangerous intersections have now been reorganized, and the squeezing fatalities now seem to be mostly a thing of some smaller towns in poor municipalities.

I'm not sure you can force anyone to see you no matter what you do. Some motorists, particularly bus drivers, just refuse to engage their brains while driving.

It takes effort to see cyclists and pedestrians. As long as there are almost no consequences for terrorizing uncaged humans, why should motorists put out the extra effort to drive attentively?

It happens everywhere, I think, strict liability or not. Here, too. Drivers obviously seeing you without noticing.

School buses are the worst for me in terms of driver behavior - I had one force me over into a crowd of waiting students once (and in that case, my video cam freed up that driver's future). Their stops are much more predictable, however; and I generally will stay in front of them

I'd like to see that video, do you have it posted somewhere?

I'd like to see that video, do you have it posted somewhere?

The result was that the Director of Transportation found it appalling enough to can the driver. I agreed to their request not to post the video, which in light of their swift and decisive action, I thought completely reasonable.

-G