Advocacy & Safety - front and rear video cameras - excessive ?

For the last year I have been riding my bike with my Go pro mounted to the front. Now that the new Go Pro 3 is out and I HAVE to have one, I am considering mounting it as well. I think it would be great for documenting great rides but also for bad car behaviour.

I have thought about this, I think it's a good idea

I have thought about this, I think it's a good idea

+100

Given the resources, I'd have front, back, helmet, and left side coverage (right if I was back in the UK) to cover the most likely angles of a collision.

Given the resources, I'd have front, back, helmet, and left side coverage (right if I was back in the UK) to cover the most likely angles of a collision.



Don't plan on archiving, sounds like a ton of downloading/storing.

If one's commute is pretty docile, running with any camera is excessive unless one want's to record the scenery.

I run front and rear cams in order to get a better chance at getting a license number and detailed info on any motorist that severely endangers my personal safety while I'm riding my bicycle.

Don't plan on archiving, sounds like a ton of downloading/storing.


When I record with my Go Pro I usually dont download the video from a days ride unless something interesting happened. I just delete.

When I record with my Go Pro I usually dont download the video from a days ride unless something interesting happened. I just delete.



I archive all my videos, there's always something interesting going on my commutes, even after reviewing each one several times, I'm amazed at some of the things that I missed.

So many changes have happened on my commutes, that it's great to see how things looked before and after.

IMO not excessive at all, in fact I think kind of necessary. Consider the situation that made me decide this:

I was riding over an expressway overpass in the very wide (about 8 feet) shoulder. I continued straight as it turned into a right turn lane into the onramp (riding slightly to the right of the lane divider line). In my mirror I observed a driver starting to drift right in behind me, following the beginning of the lane. I assumed that he wanted to take the onramp, so I moved left to the right tire track of the rightmost straight through lane.

Then the driver woke up or looked up from his phone or whatever he was doing and veered back to the right, was quite close to me by then and laid on his horn at me for being "in his way."

I realized that with front only video, had I been hit the video would have shown me moving unexpectedly to the left, into the main traffic lane for no apparent reason then getting hit. Since it's common for short term memory to be lost after an accident I probably would not be able to contest this.

In that case front only video could have actually been detrimental to my case without rear facing video as well.

I definitely do not archive my video, as two high def cameras for 2 hours a day generate about 12GB per day which would be 3.6 terabytes per year. Generally when I get home, if nothing happened I format the cards in camera and plug the cameras into chargers. 99% of my video never gets viewed.

The other day I was riding, with a new go pro mounted to my bike using their handlebar mounting system. The plastic mount failed and caused the camera and its housing to bounce across the street. I was going about 20mph. Fortunately traffic was very light and I was able to retrieve the camera with no additional impacts from cars.

The relevant portion for those of you using these cameras for evidence in the event of collision. The camera had turned itself off when I picked it up, presumably from the crash. When I later viewed the saved video, I discovered that the video stopped about fifteen seconds (give or take) before the camera went flying. I am guessing that the camera has some kind of internal memory buffer, and that when a collision occurs the relevant video will not actually end up recorded on the SD card...

Something to consider.

Given the resources, I'd have front, back, helmet, and left side coverage (right if I was back in the UK) to cover the most likely angles of a collision.

How would you position a camera to do side coverage?

This did remind me of a driver that passed me. Only to end up PIT'ting themselves. When they hit an SUV in the next lane.

How would you position a camera to do side coverage?

Many cameras have 170 degree coverage. Doing front and rear and tipping them to favor the traffic side would cover that side, if the cameras could be mounted appropriately (so the helmet isn't in the way, for instance).

The other day I was riding, with a new go pro mounted to my bike using their handlebar mounting system. The plastic mount failed and caused the camera and its housing to bounce across the street. I was going about 20mph. Fortunately traffic was very light and I was able to retrieve the camera with no additional impacts from cars.

The relevant portion for those of you using these cameras for evidence in the event of collision. The camera had turned itself off when I picked it up, presumably from the crash. When I later viewed the saved video, I discovered that the video stopped about fifteen seconds (give or take) before the camera went flying. I am guessing that the camera has some kind of internal memory buffer, and that when a collision occurs the relevant video will not actually end up recorded on the SD card...

Something to consider.

This is why, when I finally do get a GoPro camera, I am also going to get a Chest Mount Harness.

Many cameras have 170 degree coverage. Doing front and rear and tipping them to favor the traffic side would cover that side, if the cameras could be mounted appropriately (so the helmet isn't in the way, for instance).

Great, I won't need three camera's. That is a relief.

I don't need any, should I be concerned?

This is why, when I finally do get a GoPro camera, I am also going to get a Chest Mount Harness.

I have one, and it's not too bad, but let me give you some food for thought.

Check out how the camera mounts to the plate, then it's held firmly to your chest. The angle isn't too bad, but for me, I seem to get more road than traffic I may need to ID. The prominent position of the camera is facing downwards.

This is why I made a mount to connect the camera to the stem on my steer tube. Works perfectly. I just have to make one for the SS now.

On another note, I saved my video for awhile, but I delete it now too. Unless there is something cool I want to keep.

I don't need any, should I be concerned?

Probably not. I don't know what traffic is like there, but here, I like to have one. Just one. Would be nice to have one for the rear...

Care to make a donation?

Hey myriddin, here's the way I mounted the camera to my bike. I didn't trust the adhesive tape...
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=279282&d=1350616961

Probably not. I don't know what traffic is like there, but here, I like to have one. Just one. Would be nice to have one for the rear...

Care to make a donation?
OK, how about a tip?


Buy low, sell high; and enjoy your camera.

This is why, when I finally do get a GoPro camera, I am also going to get a Chest Mount Harness.


How does a chest harness prevent the camera from experiencing the shock of an impact (accident) and thus not actually save video of the impact event? For other purposes, I found a company that offers machined aluminum mounts that are much studier for both the handlebars as well as the seat (front and rear facing).

It seems that the camera (Gopro at least) can only provide video of events while riding that do not include collision with the bicycle or the rider with the camera... Which in my mind makes the OP's question moot for this camera at least.

Hey myriddin, here's the way I mounted the camera to my bike. I didn't trust the adhesive tape...
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=279282&d=1350616961

That is the same mounting device that failed for me. Take a look at the reviews on Amazon for it. Turns out the failure I experienced is fairly common for that mounting device.

The camera had turned itself off when I picked it up, presumably from the crash. When I later viewed the saved video, I discovered that the video stopped about fifteen seconds (give or take) before the camera went flying. I am guessing that the camera has some kind of internal memory buffer, and that when a collision occurs the relevant video will not actually end up recorded on the SD card...

Something to consider.

One would think that a activity type camera such as the GoPro would be designed for impacts/shocks, and to keep on videoing. I have a complete video of my bike falling over and landing squarely on my Contour(the Contour still bears the scars), and having me walk over and picking up the bike.

I want a camera...especially for commuting. If more of us used cameras, I think a lot of poor auto behavior would stop. It sends a strong message if drivers think that guy might be recording me, do I want to throw that soda? Should i do my Easy Rider impersonation?

I want a camera...especially for commuting. If more of us used cameras, I think a lot of poor auto behavior would stop. It sends a strong message if drivers think that guy might be recording me, do I want to throw that soda? Should i do my Easy Rider impersonation?

At a stop sign or stop light, a motorist might spot your camera and may think differently in exhibiting poor personal behavior, but while you and the motorist are at speed, not so much in behavioral changes occur. While at speed, getting the most detailed info with your camera that you can get on certain motorists, so it can be reported to law enforcement or media, usually gets much better results than just strapping a camera to the bike alone.

One would think that a activity type camera such as the GoPro would be designed for impacts/shocks, and to keep on videoing. I have a complete video of my bike falling over and landing squarely on my Contour(the Contour still bears the scars), and having me walk over and picking up the bike.

I would have thought so as well; however, my experience as described says not. Even with your contour, I think there is a difference between falling over, and crashing to the ground at 20mph, much less being hit by a car at 45+ mph...

Of all the cycling videos posted to the web of 'offensive drivers' do any show an actual collision? If so, what cameras were being used...

OK, how about a tip?


Buy low, sell high; and enjoy your camera.


LOL, Thanks for the tip!

Well, nothing ventured nothing gained my friend... :D

How does a chest harness prevent the camera from experiencing the shock of an impact (accident) and thus not actually save video of the impact event? For other purposes, I found a company that offers machined aluminum mounts that are much studier for both the handlebars as well as the seat (front and rear facing).

It seems that the camera (Gopro at least) can only provide video of events while riding that do not include collision with the bicycle or the rider with the camera... Which in my mind makes the OP's question moot for this camera at least.

In the event of a collision and camera failure, damaged files(although not very common) are easily recoverable short of total memory card destruction. We've damaged some of these cameras while jumping out of perfectly functioning aircraft and we have yet to see a damaged file due to impact.

My experience has been that the video stops recording at the moment of impact once the battery or some other part gets dislodged. And there are times (though, not a lot) it keeps recording a few minutes after impact.

Just noticed that you can't really see the gizmo I made for the stem.

Essentially, I made an adapter that followed the contour of the stem and fastened the mount by small screws to the adapter. Then I zip-tied the attachment to the stem.

I'll take it off tonight and get a couple photos. Works pretty good. The o-ring you see around the button holds the camera up against a piece of rubber to keep it from falling down, and to dampen the road vibration. So far so good...

In the event of a collision and camera failure, damaged files(although not very common) are easily recoverable short of total memory card destruction. We've damaged some of these cameras while jumping out of perfectly functioning aircraft and we have yet to see a damaged file due to impact.

My experience has been that the video stops recording at the moment of impact once the battery or some other part gets dislodged. And there are times (though, not a lot) it keeps recording a few minutes after impact.

Do you have any video of a collision (or of the camera falling from the bike), note I am not talking about the normal bumps it would experience? My understanding of how these function (buffer before writing) would seem to indicate that when a power failure occurs, the buffer would not be written to the memory card...

Just noticed that you can't really see the gizmo I made for the stem.

Essentially, I made an adapter that followed the contour of the stem and fastened the mount by small screws to the adapter. Then I zip-tied the attachment to the stem.

I'll take it off tonight and get a couple photos. Works pretty good. The o-ring you see around the button holds the camera up against a piece of rubber to keep it from falling down, and to dampen the road vibration. So far so good...

This is what I have replaced the mount with, only time will tell if it works any better, but the material (machined aluminum) gives me hope.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005YVTKT2/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00

This is what I have replaced the mount with, only time will tell if it works any better, but the material (machined aluminum) gives me hope.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005YVTKT2/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00

Darn right! That's pretty cool. I didn't know they were available before I made my setup. Pretty slim profile too. That may be what I'll have to make for the SS.

It seems like you can mount the camera directly to the bracket. This will prevent the camera from falling due to having so many extensions to route it to where I would need to have it.

Tad bit pricey though...

One would think that a activity type camera such as the GoPro would be designed for impacts/shocks, and to keep on videoing.You might think that, but unless the camera is explicitly designed for such it's going to be a crapshoot.

The GoPro is made to be small, cheap and perform reasonably well. It's not made to "take a hit and keep working". Same goes for the Contour. If you want that, what you need is some sort of padded case, and even then it's not going to be 100% reliable.


I have a complete video of my bike falling over and landing squarely on my Contour(the Contour still bears the scars), and having me walk over and picking up the bike.My GoPro mount has failed the same way that others here have mentioned -- and when it finally failed, I was just riding down a smooth rode. I've got video of me riding along, then the camera starts getting "wiggly" as the mount fails, and then as the camera falls off, hits the spokes and goes flying as it goes rolling down the road at 20 mph, and then me walking up and picking it up. I guess it's just luck about if it stays on or not.

But certainly, any video camera with any sort of compression better than MJPEG (and maybe even if it is a crappy camera that uses MJPEG) is going to have a buffer and if it just loses power without warning (such as if the battery is knocked a bit loose, for example) it's going to lose the contents of this buffer. Or maybe the data was written to the sdcard but the metadata hasn't been updated yet so the OS won't see the additional data (though if that's the case, you might be able to recover it.) In any event, they could add a capacitor to help prevent this (by giving it a few seconds power even after a shock), but it would make the camera bigger.

Side note: if you drop a GoPro on concrete, the odds are about 80% that it's going to scratch the lens due to the way it sticks out. If it's in the case, you'll scratch the case's lens cover instead, but it's the same difference, except that you can get two replacement covers for $20. That's one advantage of the Contour -- the lens is recessed and protected a bit. And it looks like the GoPro3 might be better in this respect as well.

Do you have any video of a collision (or of the camera falling from the bike), note I am not talking about the normal bumps it would experience? My understanding of how these function (buffer before writing) would seem to indicate that when a power failure occurs, the buffer would not be written to the memory card...

Yes, we had a few of those when the camera slips off a harness or a helmet during training. We have footage that stops right at the moment of impact. I do understand your point with the buffer not writing due to power failure. We have a few of those as well. I guess it's a hit or miss??

only two cameras? i'd feel naked with only two cameras ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uAQ18gCz8w

multi-cam bit starts at 0:38

For those of you worried about losing video capabilities on impact, you might try what I did.

I discovered that the GoPro could stop recording if the memory card jiggled loose during recording, and one of my cards would often just quit on a relatively smooth ride, with no significant bumping at all. Long story short, after lots of testing and troubleshooting, I discovered that the minor tolerances in the plastic housing, combined with the tolerances in the SD cards, sometimes allow the card to slide just enough to disengage.

So, what I did was wedge a dime into the side of the GoPro case, which keeps the card firmly in place. I have had several....significant....impacts while using my GoPro (all of my own making, on my mountain bike) and not had it come loose since then.

For the last year I have been riding my bike with my Go pro mounted to the front. Now that the new Go Pro 3 is out and I HAVE to have one, I am considering mounting it as well. I think it would be great for documenting great rides but also for bad car behaviour.

Just wrap yourself in bubble-wrap, and you won't have issues.

So, what I did was wedge a dime into the side of the GoPro case, which keeps the card firmly in place. I have had several....significant....impacts while using my GoPro (all of my own making, on my mountain bike) and not had it come loose since then.
:twitchy: try some different cards, and if they come loose, you may need to get a warranty replacement on the camera.

those cameras are made to be attached to rally cars, model rockets, and just about anything that crashes or jumps. the problem you're describing isn't normal. this is a high-impact camera.

try some different cards, and if they come loose, you may need:twitchy: to get a warranty replacement on the camera.

those cameras are made to be attached to rally cars, model rockets, and just about anything that crashes or jumps. the problem you're describing isn't normal. this is a high-impact camera.Can you point to the promotional literature or section in the documentation that says this? Certainly, the manual (http://gopro.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/HD2_UserManual_ENG1.pdf) simply says "Damage resulting from use, accident, or normal wear and tear is not covered by this or any warranty" and that's about it. (Though they do talk about their "locking plug" to help prevent "accidental housing release from mounts.")

Their mounts are made of plastic and are known to fail. They show video of the camera being mounted to surfboards, helmets, cars, etc. -- but I don't recall any demolition derby videos on their web site. I don't really recall any of their videos including actual impacts at all -- probably because even if the camera itself didn't fail, the sudden movements would accentuate the rolling shutter issue.

And really, the impacts on the camera are likely to be worse in a bicycle that actually crashes and the camera itself hits the concrete than in a rally car that goes flying over some rough terrain. (Of course, a high speed car crash could easily be even worse.)

:twitchy: try some different cards, and if they come loose, you may need to get a warranty replacement on the camera.

those cameras are made to be attached to rally cars, model rockets, and just about anything that crashes or jumps. the problem you're describing isn't normal. this is a high-impact camera.

I tried several cards (I have 3 cards that I swap out on long rides) and it occurs with any of them, somewhat randomly if there's a good jostle (which happens enough on motorcycle/bike rides). And the camera I have is the second GoPro, after thinking the first one I had was faulty. It's just normal manufacturing tolerances that can occur. It's not necessarily normal, but it's also not difficult to remedy.

this guy is lucky he had a rear cam... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZAWcymOWmc

@dougmc - unless the gopro hits the ground, or something else solid, from a great height and/or great speed, anything you're doing with it mounted to a bike shouldn't hurt it... at least not without causing damage to the bike.

@dougmc - unless the gopro hits the ground, or something else solid, from a great height and/or great speed ...Yes, but that's exactly what we're talking about -- about it's ability (or inability) to keep working in the event of a crash. For example, this post (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/853053-front-and-rear-video-cameras-excessive?p=14858119&viewfull=1#post14858119).

I've had mine go flying down the road when the mount broke -- it kept taking video. Others have had similar things happen and it lost the video.

If you're relying on your GoPro(s) to provide documentation of what happened when you're hit by a car (presumably hard enough to be seriously injured) -- you may find yourself disappointed, when the saved video stops a few seconds before the collision. Or maybe not -- it'll probably boil down to luck.

(That said, if you are so disappointed -- don't give up so easily. It might be that there's more data recoverable on the card than you will find just by putting the card in your computer and copying over the file.)

this guy is lucky he had a rear cam... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZAWcymOWmc



I'm not a fan of passing motorists then quickly cutting back in front of them, only increases the possibility of making some bad motorists even more dangerous. Hopefully, law enforcement has since contacted this particular motorist about this incident.

this guy is lucky he had a rear cam... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZAWcymOWmc


I've gone through that video several times and it is clear that the car he claimed hit him was well in front of his camera BEFORE HE WENT DOWN... There is no indication on the video as to why he went down, but the rain and resulting slick surface could well have something to do with it. It is also obvious from his video that the cyclist was riding pretty recklessly (weaving in and out of slow moving cars while under adverse weather conditions) Indeed at one point he comes fairly close to an oncoming car while cutting around other vehicles that were going to slow for him...

I've gone through that video several times and it is clear that the car he claimed hit him was well in front of his camera BEFORE HE WENT DOWN...The guy says the car hit him seconds after he fell in the video. If anybody would know, he would. (Unless we're suggesting that he altered the audio track to add that?)

It may be that the car did hit him and made him lose control, and it just took a few moments before he went down. Perhaps it hit his handlebars, turned them all the way to the left and sent the front wheel skidding (due to the wet roads) so the fall took a bit.

Did you watch the entire video? He had a rear camera too, and at 3:45 you see the car hit him from the vantage of the rear camera. It's hard to be certain, but it does look like the car hit his handlebars which made the bike try to turn left and fall to the right. Certainly, the car was very close.

(Of course, If he had a camera on the handlebars too, we'd know for sure. So I guess the magic number of cameras is three?)

Why stop with two cameras?

http://1x57.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/google-street-view-bicycle-bike-trike-googleplex-camera-dan-ratner.jpg

I am about to buy two GoPro Hero3 cameras. My company is paying for one. I intend to have a default front and rear mount for my rides to record not only my rides but driver behavior in case I do need it. I know it may sound a bit unnecessary as I don't have many incidents with motorists here in New Orleans, but its that one time you wish you did that its too late. The technology is affordable and simple, and I enjoy recording rides anyway (I have an Archos media player with a lipstick cam that I used to use). For every ride, there is usually one little highlight clip you would like to keep.

I have video surveillance cameras on my home. One of them is monitored by a group called projectnola, and they have used footage from my camera, unbeknownst to me until recently, to ID a vehicle driving to a shooting scene. It was the perps car and led to their arrest.

Just this Sunday, I foolishly forgot my messenger bag on my porch, and it had my wallet and car keys in it. Guy stole it at 8:12 AM. He didn't see the cameras. Fool came back at 4 PM acting like a good Samaritan with my d/l and credit cards (sans wallet, keys and bag), looking for a reward. I had camera printouts in my hand because I was working the neighborhood. I showed him the printouts of himself and he bolted on his bike. I chased him in my truck, called 911 and followed him around until the cops intercepted and caught him. He had a warrant for him and a long rap sheet. I had to re-core the locks on my truck, but the cameras helped catch the guy.

So I am all for using cameras for your protection. The technology is pervasive and cheap now, and there's a lot of mal-intent out there, ready to prey on you or abuse you. Cameras catch people in lies.

Edit: just for giggles, here's the guy approaching my porch to steal the bag, then returning with my stuff, and his booking photo after the arrest:

281365281366281367

I'm not a fan of passing motorists then quickly cutting back in front of them, only increases the possibility of making some bad motorists even more dangerous. Hopefully, law enforcement has since contacted this particular motorist about this incident.

I am inclined to agree. Because, That is just a form of 'aggressive cycling'.

I am about to buy two GoPro Hero3 cameras.

Thanks for jogging me into checking this out.

At their website, the new GoPro Hero3 basic "white edition" is now $199 with waterproof case and basic mounts. I ordered one last night. Once I get a chance to confirm what I already am pretty sure of, that it's a very nice camera, I'll get a second.

I'm returning the Sony HDR-AS15 that I bought less than a month ago. Honestly its video is not very clear and its still frames are horrible. I was expecting far better. I can't recommend it at all especially since the GoPro with WiFi (now standard) is $199, the Sony without is $199 and they charge another $70 for WiFi.

One thing about GoPro that people should know. If you intend to purchase one and use it underwater, you will be disappointed.

Ther is a design flaw with the aspect of the lenses, so underwater photography will be blurry. I have heard that there are some jury-rig fixes for this, but I don't know if I would trust taking apart the camera case. I would be concerned that it would flood.