Touring - Any other Queer bike tourists "out" there?

I have posted this on crazyguy, but got little response. I am six months into a tour of Latin America (from California) and finding that continually passing for straight is getting somewhat old. I wonder if other queer (lesbian, gay, transgendered, etc.) bike tourists have been out on tour in countries other than the U.S.
It's not that I feel the NEED to declare my sexuality to every guy (it's usually guys) that ask about the wife, or where I think the most beautiful women are, but part of me is just plain fed up with passing, letting it slide, not saying anything, or making up some lame response. Not sure I will ever find myself brave enough to come out on tour in Latin America, but definitely would like to know if others have dealt with this.

I think you would be able to find more responses on other sites. Sorry you are having difficulties. Part of it might be your choice of words. In some subcultures the q word is accepted. But for the large majority it does not seem to be as acceptable as the word gay. That just seems to be the way it is.
I have run into several who are gay on tour. Hetero males in general are unappreciative of aggressive advances by gay males (some very). Most are appreciative of advances by hetero females.
My suggestion would be to go by your sensitivity to specific cases and situations, and not to come across as aggressive.
Case by case awareness seems better than blueprints applied generally.
Hetero Latino culture has a strong or very strong element of machismo. I don't think most of them are terribly open to people who cross certain lines with them. Roberto Duran was flagship machismo, and the Latinos loved him for it. There are some great comments by Burt Sugar about his machismo and his place in their culture and hearts -- and another, more subtle side of machismo -- in a short documentary about Duran. You can find it on youtube.com.
Why do you have to make it an either-or--either pass/pretend (which feels dishonest or like you are hiding) or declare? It seems possible to find other ways.

There aren't too many places in Latin America which are gay-friendly. Off the top of my head, I can think of Mexico City, Puerto Vallarta, and Buenos Aires. San Jose, Costa Rica isn't too bad, either, I suppose. And then there's Brazil. Other than perhaps those places, it's unfortunately safest to pass unless you've gotten to know the person and have judged the situation. I went to a language school in a small town in Costa Rica for a few weeks and I lived with a local family. There was no way I was going to come out to anyone in that particular family. One of my teachers, however, was cool. She asked me one day, "tienes una novia...o un novio"? (she wasn't born yesterday.) So I answered her honestly, which led to some great conversations. But she also recommended that I NOT tell another teacher there, because that one was super religious. She also agreed with me that I shouldn't come out to my Tico family.

I have a little rainbow sticker on my helmet. I was sitting on a park bench next to my bike in a city in Chile's Lake District, when it became clear that a guy was cruising me and was being urged on by his friends. We eventually started chatting, and I learned that he had noticed my sticker.

I toured in Mexico once with a straight friend (in the Yucatan), and once with a gay friend (in Michoacan/Jalisco). When we got to the Caribbean coast in the Yucatan, my straight friend wanted to go to some awful gringo bar/restaurant (Senor Frogs, I think) in Playa del Carmen, which had lots of tourist chicks imbibing too much alcohol. I begged off and went to eat by myself in a hole-in-the-wall in the non-tourist part of town and had a better meal for 1/3 the price. My friend did not get lucky.

A few years ago, I noticed a "Companions Wanted" ad in the Adventure Cycling magazine. The guy mentioned that he was gay. I contacted him just to find out what sort of response he had gotten, and whether he got any nasty homophobic responses. If I recall correctly, he told me he hadn't received any responses at all.

I'm gay and toured the length of South America and then across Canada (crazyguyonabike.com/vagabondingsa (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/vagabondingsa)). I met lots and lots of touring cyclists but I didn't come across any gay ones. Or I may have met some but I didn't make it a habit to ask about their tires, panniers, and then their sexuality. I experienced the same thing as you though. Lots of questions about where the hottest girls can be found and girlfriends, etc. I'd come out to people I hung out with a lot but in general I didn't feel any need to tell everyone I was gay.

In January my fiance and I will be touring Southeast Asia (>hojobiking.com (http://www.hojobiking.com)). Southeast Asia is supposed to be very gay friendly but as oppose to here where we make plenty of PDAs, in Asia we're planning on keeping a low key.

Thanks huie and axolotl, those are the kinds of replies I am hoping to get; input from others who have had the experience.
I definitely don't feel the need or even desire to come out to everyone I meet, and this isn't about hooking up, either. It's just that, after six months of basically pretending I'm straight, it has gotten really stale. I'm tired of posing as something I'm not. And I think a lot of people would be better off having their stereotypes shattered.
I long for a world where sexuality is a non-issue, though I know that world might not exist in this universe any time soon.
I do realize it isn't the worst thing to ever happen to me, and I am not letting it ruin this terrific adventure. Just hoping to commiserate, I guess.

I can see how that would be a drag. While I don't talk about my family, I guess it is possible that I would let out the fact I had one, and then move on to other stuff, having put up the wall. I never discuss any of the topics you mention with casual contacts. I guess it is still a big ask to want a non-sexual context to live in were one blathers on endlessly about sexual identity and the possible outlets for it. I guess you could shut people down by saying you are gay, but the other alternative is to let it be known you don't want to talk about sex when it come up, because apparently you don't. Think of yourself as Mormon, or something. People with strong religious beliefs, or "conservative" dispositions, manage not to talk about where to pick up folks, and normally it is with some subtle cue like a frown. I've never taken drugs, and somehow I manage not to have a lot of discussions with people about drugs either. I'm sure other folks hook up and talk endlessly about where they can score and how hammered they were, etc....

Your perception of Latin America in regard to gay/lesbian/bisexuals might change quite a bit once you cross the border. Certainly, you wouldn't want to advertise it in big letters as you might still encounter bigotry in certain areas/countries. My partner and I have been happily living here in Mexico for the past two years, although we have been coming down here for the past five years (since we bought our house.) I can only speak for Mexico, but everyone (locals and expats) have been more than welcoming - more so than in many places in the U.S. We have traveled extensively to many parts of Mexico with the same positive experience. We are straight-acting and never show public display of affection, but if we ever get asked, we don't hide it (that rarely happens and if it does we've realized by then that that person is gay-friendly.) Every year we see more and more gay people from all ages (mainly from North America) who move down here and love it.

Having said the above, there are still places you might want to be a little cautious or keep a low profile. Remember that you will cover a lot of territory quickly on a bike, so things will change by the day. Definitely be careful in villages and rural areas where people tend to be very conservative and narrow-minded. I would not carry a rainbow flag/sticker on my bike! I have read reports of bigotry in certain places of Central America (I believe it was in Honduras/Nicaragua, but not sure) where straight males wearing spandex (bike touring) have been verbally harassed by ignorant guys with a "macho man" attitude (they normally hang out in groups.) Panama (lived there for a long time) is like Singapore - so modern in so many aspects but still pretty backwards in regard to gay rights and viewed as "wrong" by many (Yes, the Roberto Duran macho and anti-gay attitude described above is very much alive there.) Most of South America seems to be up-to-speed vis-a-vis gays, especially in larger cities. You will get a feel for every place and adjust accordingly. Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Argentina and Uruguay (Costa Rica, Colombia and Ecuador apparently are not that far behind) are gay friendly places. YMMV.

There is another possibility that might be of help: exercize your right to select good environments and situations to a greater extent.

We aren't always able to select; but in many cases one can select -- and it seems possible to extend or expand that as well.

If I had selected my living and study situations (for example) more carefully and thoughtfully or insightfully, it would have made a huge difference for years of my life. Instead of judgmentalism, interference, misunderstandings, and various forms of difficulties and even hostilities, it could have been accepting, enjoyable, mutually enriching, full of life and goodwill and friendship.

Wouldn't it be possible to take extra care to put yourself in more of these sorts of good environments and fewer of the others?

Dubzo, thanks for starting this thread. After I replied to you, I was wondering if anyone else would come out. I thank all of you. For the small number of replies so far, there have been a relatively large number of views. Curious straight people or GLBT folk wondering whether to post?

For your current travels, my suggestion is to feel grateful that you're able to do what you're doing, and also know that you'll be able to return home to a society where you can much more easily be yourself than is possible in most of Latin America. (But there are certainly still parts of the USA which aren't more enlightened than much of Latin America, and even at home we're continually being used as a punching bag by various politicians and others.) Also realize that what is a temporary frustration for you, is the permanent state of affairs for those GLBT folks who grow up in the places you're passing through.

I don't think that most straight people realize that coming out is a continual process which never ends. Every time we are interacting with others, there are routinely moments when we have to decide whether to self-censor. I've been posting on this forum for nearly 8 years, and there certainly have been times when I self-censored. It gets old. It got old.

Hey - I'm one of the viewers/not-posters. I'm a gay-friendly straight person, if it matters. I don't have anything particularly helpful or relevant to add, other than, man it SUCKS that you have to think about such things, and I hope the world keeps getting more accepting, that you can tell whatever truths you feel like, and no one gives you any grief for it.

Anyway, I guess I clicked on this because last month, on tour on the Oregon coast, I met a guy who was out in a very casual way, to me and to other random touring folks. He was just like 'blah blah blah my boyfriend blah blah blah' ... and it was just part of the conversation.

I thought about writing something earlier, but Oregon Coast <> Latin America, so that little snippet of experience is irrelevant, and I don't know anything about Latin America (which is a huge continent, so probably can't really lump it all together, yeah?) - so I didn't write anything. So, yeah, nothing particularly helpful.

One of the things that I find kind of awkward about touring is that usually every conversation is a first (and last) conversation, so it's hard to have deeper, meaningful connections with people - which might lead in your case to know whether you could share your queer status and connect further vs. needing to protect yourself from prejudice by staying quiet about that facet of yourself.

That experience of being not-all-yourself is actually not one that is completely particular to your queerness. I personally have a rather black sense of humor and can be sarcastic, but I find myself dialing that part of my personality way back on tour, because most people don't "get" me -- I realize it's not the same as your situation, but, just drawing a little parallel, that might help you re-frame what you are going through in a hopefully helpful way.

Anyway. Hope your tour goes well.

Your average Joe probably considers all bike tourists to be queer.

We should all just accept it.

Turn down the flame and just ride the bike, w no expectation of affairs,
and not seeking them, is likely to not have you stick out .. blend in..


there is 'Out' ,and there is just keeping your own council,
and just riding your bike to see the countryside..

Many times people have same sex travel partners,
separate sleeping bags.. and perhaps tents , to go separate ways..


Having Lived in San Francisco in The 80's,
there are as I note various amounts of showing the preference..
'Full Castro, to J Edgar Hoover

I don't want any more Matthew Sheppards , Be safe. and careful .

have a nice memory of a GF, a NZlander I met in Scotland,


But it was just serendipity.. i made 2 prior tours no expectations..

now 65, my hormones are in Remission..

Turn down the flame and just ride the bike,
You're responding like it's a choice.



w no expectation of affairs, and not seeking them,

Really?



is likely to not have you stick out .. blend in..


In a society where simply choosing to travel by bicycle is often seen as aberrant behavior, exactly how much blending can a person do? Besides, it's not like it's the prerogative of every homosexual on a bike to roll into town shirtless, proudly displaying their nipple-ring steering acumen.

This....

Your average Joe probably considers all bike tourists to be queer.

...probably not this.

Even the rural US is unhealthy, if you get targeted.. Matthew Sheppard..

I would guess most folks are happy enough to leave you alone... especially if you have the aroma of 3 days' laundry wafting...

Turn down the flame and just ride the bike, w no expectation of affairs,
and not seeking them, is likely to not have you stick out .. blend in..

"Turn down the flame..." Flame? Who mentioned flame? You wouldn't think I was queer if you met me. (And no, telling a gay man he "doesn't seem gay" is not a compliment.) "...expectation of affairs..." I have already stated clearly that this is definitely NOT about hooking up. This is about being able to be myself while interacting with others. The best part of these last six months has been the connections I have made with people, and I am not referring to sexual connections.

And blending in? I don't expect to blend in on tour in Latin America. I want people to stop assuming I am straight, or Christian, or rich, or whatever. I want to feel comfortable enough to correct people, very matter of factly and casually, when they assume I am straight, without fear of reprisal. That's all. I know, it's a lot to ask. I posted this hoping to hear from other queer bike tourists, if they have had similar experience, and learn how they dealt with it.

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10-19-12, 09:42 PMjwbnyc
Your average Joe probably considers all bike tourists to be queer.



And no, being on a bike does not usually lead to the same kind of discrimination that being labeled queer often does. Equating the two, while I understand the sentiment, is insensitive and offensive to queer people.

Whew! There, I've said my piece.

how did you twist bicycle touring and sexuality together in your head? Get out and ride more. There's introspection and then there's that. . . waaaay beyond in the distance somewhere.

If your problem is people accepting you for who you are, then that isn't a biking issue. You can either lie, or buck up and be proud of who you are.

I don't have anything particularly helpful or relevant to add, other than, man it SUCKS that you have to think about such things, and I hope the world keeps getting more accepting, that you can tell whatever truths you feel like, and no one gives you any grief for it.

Totally agree.

I'm neither gay nor male but I kind of know where you're coming from - being a single female biking alone I am constantly asked if or assumed that I am married etc. I much prefer to be honest and say I'm single, but it leads either to the same questions (why not? being the main one. In many cultures 30 is old to still be single) or to unwanted advances. So I sometimes I say I'm married just to make it simpler/safer. It's really rather tiresome sometimes.

how did you twist bicycle touring and sexuality together in your head? Get out and ride more. There's introspection and then there's that. . . waaaay beyond in the distance somewhere.

If your problem is people accepting you for who you are, then that isn't a biking issue. You can either lie, or buck up and be proud of who you are.
You clearly don't get it. Try re-reading Dubzo's original post. And as hard as it is, trying putting yourself in someone else's shoes, because you're being pretty flippant about other people's personal safety and well-being.

If this were an ideal world, there would be no danger in always answering questions honestly and not self-censoring in normal conversation. But it's not an ideal world, and I routinely have to gauge each conversation and each situation to quickly decide what I feel I can safely say. Increasingly I feel I can speak honestly and matter-of-factly at home (the USA), but it's not true yet in most of Latin America.

Dubzo, have you been to Uruguay? It's one of the most progressive countries in Latin America, and I imagine you'd be able to be yourself there.

how did you twist bicycle touring and sexuality together in your head? Get out and ride more. There's introspection and then there's that. . . waaaay beyond in the distance somewhere.

If your problem is people accepting you for who you are, then that isn't a biking issue. You can either lie, or buck up and be proud of who you are.
Like it's been said you do not get it. Have you ever been on a bike tour before? Have you ever interacted with another person before? Often times people ask questions to get to know someone a little better. People may ask if you're married, have a girl friend, what you do for a job, etc. The original post is not about how best to gay up his bike but how to deal with situations when an honest answer may not be well received.

Like it's been said you do not get it. Have you ever been on a bike tour before? Have you ever interacted with another person before? Often times people ask questions to get to know someone a little better. People may ask if you're married, have a girl friend, what you do for a job, etc. The original post is not about how best to gay up his bike but how to deal with situations when an honest answer may not be well received.

If it's an issue of personal safety, then I wouldn't really want to bother with the person anyway.I would avoid the topic first of all, and I would lie or divert and move on. I am accepting of others but my one exception is those who don't have acceptance for others.

I understand the difficulties, but I wonder why Dubzo would subject himself to those people. It seems the larger issue is coping with strangers whether on or off the bike. Perhaps I am naive as to how often sexuality comes up on tour vs any other time. Maybe there is something about being on the road and meeting strangers that invokes that kind of response in them, but I haven't experienced it.

All of my tours haven't been about meeting people, they've been about getting away from people, and I know that's not what everybody goes out touring for.

Would you all have the same reaction about someone who was Hindu going through Latin America? Do you think the topic would come up that often? Do you think they would feel the need to tell everybody that they were Hindu or divert religious questions? I'm more curious than anything. Is there something about sexuality that is different? What about political views?

You do have to consider that nobody is intentionally attacking you here, and you're the one that is feeling the need to withhold information about yourself for one reason or another. If you have a good reason, then why is that such a bad thing? It gets old pedaling up those hills too, but it's worth it. I think that the part that bothered me is that Dubzo is viewing his sexuality as a curse or a burden, and that it should affect other (seemingly unrelated) aspects of his life.

You clearly don't get it. Try re-reading Dubzo's original post. And as hard as it is, trying putting yourself in someone else's shoes, because you're being pretty flippant about other people's personal safety and well-being.



Truthfully I hadn't considered personal safety, and I apologize for coming off abrasively. Hopefully my other response doesn't sound like that.

Truthfully I hadn't considered personal safety, and I apologize for coming off abrasively. Hopefully my other response doesn't sound like that.
Thanks, juggleaddict. I appreciate that.

Re: your reply to huie:
It's not that specifically sexuality comes up that often with strangers (but heterosexual men do sometimes bring it up, such as when making lewd comments about an attractive woman). Most straight people don't realize how frequently entirely innocent questions are raised when talking to strangers while traveling. (Yeah, I like to talk to folks when I travel. I also like practicing foreign languages.) I have often been asked if I'm married or if I have a girlfriend. If I simply answer "no", you'd be surprised how often I'm then asked "why not?". Or sometimes be told, "you should meet my sister" or something similar to that. Sometimes it's said as a joke, but not always.

Think about how often people have banter in the workplace about what they did over the weekend, with casual mentions of spouses or girlfriends/boyfriends. Think about the simple action of putting up a photo of your significant other. (I have been out at all of my recent jobs)

Religion can occasionally be as problematic as sexual orientation, but I've found it doesn't come up with the same frequency, either overtly or inadvertently. Also, in most places, it's not as risky to be honest about religion.

I've had many political discussions when touring, but I never bring it up first. I had a memorable discussion about American politics with a man in Thailand. It was rather extraordinary for a Thai person to bring up something like that in a somewhat confrontational manner. His daughter was translating for us. But when I told him my honest opinion, which was in complete agreement with him, it was wonderful to watch his facial expression change to a big smile as his daughter was telling him what I had just said.

I guess I just don't see the problem.

If they ask where is your wife, a simple "I don't have one" should be enough.

If they ask where to p/u hot chicks a "I don't know" should do it.

Sexuality and gender issues are the farthest things in my mind while I am riding.

Am I missing something?

Totally agree.

I'm neither gay nor male but I kind of know where you're coming from - being a single female biking alone I am constantly asked if or assumed that I am married etc. I much prefer to be honest and say I'm single, but it leads either to the same questions (why not? being the main one. In many cultures 30 is old to still be single) or to unwanted advances. So I sometimes I say I'm married just to make it simpler/safer. It's really rather tiresome sometimes.




I'm with you guys. No one should have to be who they are not.

Unfortunately, though, you'll always find someone out there just looking for an excuse, be it ethnicity, sexuality, gender, or just because you don't fit. I've never toured South America, so can't comment on that, but I'd would advise simply trusting your senses and playing it by ear.

I believe the majority of humanity to be friendly, helpful and generous. Just watch out for the knuckleheads.

All the best and hope it goes smoothly.

I'm with you guys. No one should have to be who they are not.

On the one hand I get it, absolutely. On the other:

1) Nobody ever gets "you" or gets the real "you". They may identify with you, but it usually means something different to them.

2) There are thousands of years of people doing their best to avoid being real, from manners on. It is part of the self indulgent culture since the 60s that we assume people want to take us on for what we are. That lasted for a while as the pretence one cared was fashionable. The internet is a lot more raw, with a whole lot more about people coming out both nasty, and worse.

3) People don't know the real them, let along show it to anyone else.

4) 80% of people don't give a toss about you, and the rest actually wish you harm. Or it could be the other way around...

You're responding like it's a choice.


I have no view on this, but there are increasing reports in the popular press to which I am exposed, like Yahoo, I think, a few days back, of new research, that undermines the gay gene high five moment, which was pretty preposterous, and political, in the day.

1) The original picture was oversimplified, some recent arousal pattern studies indicate women are basically bisexual. Just to take one example. So that would mean both states are genetic and chosen? For women.

2) Gay gene was used to bully and pass through a lot of rights legislation here, but in parts of the world where it is illegal to be homosexual, and may remain so for a while, how good is the news that there is a gay gene? The characterization would not be so life affirming, in those cases.

3) So lets say it is a choice, none of the recent politics really changes, demographically the changes are baked in. They aren't going back. Shouldn't people's choices be respected?

Do a search on new research on gay gene, we are talking the peer reviewed non-crazy stuff.

On the one hand I get it, absolutely. On the other:

1) Nobody ever gets "you" or gets the real "you". They may identify with you, but it usually means something different to them.

2) There are thousands of years of people doing their best to avoid being real, from manners on. It is part of the self indulgent culture since the 60s that we assume people want to take us on for what we are. That lasted for a while as the pretence one cared was fashionable. The internet is a lot more raw, with a whole lot more about people coming out both nasty, and worse.

3) People don't know the real them, let along show it to anyone else.

4) 80% of people don't give a toss about you, and the rest actually wish you harm. Or it could be the other way around...

I see your point, and agree totally that people are much more complex than the character they project (whether they are aware of it or not).

I suppose a better way of putting my original point would be, it would be great to live in a world where such things didn't really matter, and not one felt pressure to be something they thought they were not. After all, if I were a Buddhist, I wouldn't like to have to pretend I was a Catholic whenever the subject of religion came up.

Of course, if the subject of religion never came up, I would be happy to leave it that way. But that's just me.

Also, I suspect it's a lot more than 80% of people who don't give a toss, and a tiny minority who actually wish you harm. I've read enough accounts of the kindness of strangers to our fellow cycle-tourists, even in places usually perceived as dangerous (Iran springs to mind) which is ever encouraging and inspiring. But despite all that, being gay in South America would make me very wary of revealing it. But then again, maybe that's just my prejudice towards your average South American man.

It's a funny old world, isn't it?

In my many years in the closet I learned that the question, "Are you married?" can be hostile or the start of a pass. It requires a quick assessment.
Good luck. A tourist in a foreign culture is vulnerable. Be careful.

Hey - I'm one of the viewers/not-posters. I'm a gay-friendly straight person, if it matters. I don't have anything particularly helpful or relevant to add, other than, man it SUCKS that you have to think about such things, and I hope the world keeps getting more accepting, that you can tell whatever truths you feel like, and no one gives you any grief for it.

+1. I am not gay, but I was raised by an interracial couple. On more than one occasion I have had to deal with racial prejudice on tour. It first popped up on the third day of my first tour, which was a group x-country trip. I was sitting around a fire with another member of the group. A couple of black kids were riding their bikes around the camprgound not bothering anyone. Their parents were close by outside their RV. The guy turns to me and says with a smirk "I guess we have to lock our bikes up tonight, eh." Then he pressed me for an answer by repating himself. I responded "I think we'll be o.k. when what I really wanted to do was shove his face in the embers. I remember thinking that I didn't want to have to deal with that [insert explative] for three months. He had some choice things to say about "Japs" as well. I ended up trying to avoid interacting with the guy unless it was absolutely necessary, like when we were paired to shop and cook, but the drag was still there.

I have no view on this, but there are increasing reports in the popular press to which I am exposed, like Yahoo, I think, a few days back, of new research, that undermines the gay gene high five moment, which was pretty preposterous, and political, in the day.

1) The original picture was oversimplified, some recent arousal pattern studies indicate women are basically bisexual. Just to take one example. So that would mean both states are genetic and chosen? For women.

2) Gay gene was used to bully and pass through a lot of rights legislation here, but in parts of the world where it is illegal to be homosexual, and may remain so for a while, how good is the news that there is a gay gene? The characterization would not be so life affirming, in those cases.

3) So lets say it is a choice, none of the recent politics really changes, demographically the changes are baked in. They aren't going back. Shouldn't people's choices be respected?

Do a search on new research on gay gene, we are talking the peer reviewed non-crazy stuff.

I don't fully understand what you're trying to say and this is getting off-topic, but I want to raise an important point. Many people do not understand the difference between "genetics" and "biology". Also, recent research about so-called "junk DNA" reveals that it is not junk at all. Twin studies indicate that there is likely a significant genetic component to sexual orientation, but that other biological factors appear to be part of the equation. For example, one of these possible biological factors may be hormonal activity in the womb.

In any event, virtually all gay men will tell you that there is absolutely no matter of choice regarding emotional and sexual attraction. (Frankly, straight men would say the same thing, but some of them seem to find it hard to accept that it's innate for gay men, too.)

Emotional and sexual attraction in women appear to be different than in men.

So, since there have been others responding positively,
the 'are there others' question was answered..

now just go ride your bike and enjoy the bike trip.. be safe..

.. just don't feed the Bears [actually and metaphorically]

"Turn down the flame..." Flame? Who mentioned flame? You wouldn't think I was queer if you met me. (And no, telling a gay man he "doesn't seem gay" is not a compliment.) "...expectation of affairs..." I have already stated clearly that this is definitely NOT about hooking up. This is about being able to be myself while interacting with others. The best part of these last six months has been the connections I have made with people, and I am not referring to sexual connections.

And blending in? I don't expect to blend in on tour in Latin America. I want people to stop assuming I am straight, or Christian, or rich, or whatever. I want to feel comfortable enough to correct people, very matter of factly and casually, when they assume I am straight, without fear of reprisal. That's all. I know, it's a lot to ask. I posted this hoping to hear from other queer bike tourists, if they have had similar experience, and learn how they dealt with it.

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10-19-12, 09:42 PMjwbnyc
Your average Joe probably considers all bike tourists to be queer.



And no, being on a bike does not usually lead to the same kind of discrimination that being labeled queer often does. Equating the two, while I understand the sentiment, is insensitive and offensive to queer people.

Whew! There, I've said my piece.
These are two things that have caused me great confusion about your thread and comments.

In the first instance, you visit another place, another culture, then want those people in that culture to conform to your outlooks on life. That is a significant conundrum for me. You are a guest in other people's countries and you want them to change their attitudes because you have graced them with your presence?

Frankly, if you aren't comfortable with what people in other cultures think about you, maybe you should withdraw and go somewhere else where you are more comfortable.

In the second instance, just who is doing the labelling here? As I see it, the thread has the word "queer" in it and you started the thread. You cannot have it both ways. People get really tired of being accused of attaching labels to others who claim to shun those labels, but then use those labels themselves.

FWIW, women have been facing these same issues for decades... nay, centuries. They have had to manipulate the truth to maintain their sense of security. Read Josie Dew's books as an example. I haven't read Dervla Murphy's books, but maybe they contain some clues. Read journals on CGOAB by single women and see how they handle the situations they encounter.

Indeed, men, including me, have had to do some quick recalibrations of the truth when circumstances have felt threatening, whether they were in fact threatening or not. Sometimes that has meant missing out on some other more pleasant experience on a tour, but then that leads me to say:

Take notice of your gut feeling. If something doesn't feel right, it more often than not isn't.

It's advice that applies to any gender of cycling tourist.

By the way, out of eight or so years and touring and randonneuring in various places around the world, I don't recall getting into any conversations about my sexuality or marital status. I did, however, talk a lot about cycling, touring and where I came from.

Odd how many straight people (I am one) have zero empathy on this issue. To regard the reappropriation of the word queer by LGBT people as "labelling" does rather indicate a lack of understanding of the issues.

Having said that, OP, you need to resign yourself to doing what is necessary to keep yourself safe. Very many communities, including a great many in supposedly liberal and enlightened countries, don't subscribe to a "live and let live" approach to human sexuality, and don't take kindly to having their prejudices challenged. Look after yourself, and console yourself, if necessary, with the knowledge that most people live their whole lives in what Sartre would have called "bad faith", and don't even know it. At least you know when you're wearing a mask.

These are two things that have caused me great confusion about your thread and comments.

In the first instance, you visit another place, another culture, then want those people in that culture to conform to your outlooks on life. That is a significant conundrum for me. You are a guest in other people's countries and you want them to change their attitudes because you have graced them with your presence?

The OP would like to be treated like a human being even though he's in a foreign land. What cheek! Right, Owen?

Edited by Moderators

The OP would like to be treated like a human being even though he's in a foreign land. What cheek! Right, Owen?

Funny how you pick and choose only certain passages from Rowan's post. One of the points made by Rowan is that when you visit a foreign land you should not try to impose your mores on the people there. That is an excellent point and one that we should all keep in mind when we travel to other parts of the world.

BTW, I also agree with Rowan in one other area: I have been riding my bikes forever and have logged many 1000 of miles. In all that time and in all those miles no one has ever quizzed me about my marital status, sexuality or other related subjects. If they had, I imagine that a polite but firm, none of your effing business, would suffice as an answer.

It's all about the bike!

Edited by Moderators

I don't understand this whole thread. For anyone to expect anyone to accept them as they are seems pointless. You accept me or you don't. I have no control over that.

BTW, I also agree with Rowan in one other area: I have been riding my bikes forever and have logged many 1000 of miles. In all that time and in all those miles no one has ever quizzed me about my marital status, sexuality or other related subjects. If they had, I imagine that a polite but firm, none of your effing business, would suffice as an answer.

It's all about the bike!
For me, it's not all about the bike. I enjoy interacting with people when I tour. I often tour outside my home country because I especially enjoy experiencing different cultures, different foods, and different landscapes. I speak 4 languages to varying degrees and like to use them when I travel. Some of my touring has been with friends, and some has been by myself. I have been asked many, many times about my marital status or if I have a girlfriend. My two most recent trips to Latin America were off the bike. I was visiting Mexico with a female friend, and we were often off the beaten track. We traveled on local and long distance buses. The type of questions I was asked were often very different from when I've traveled alone or with another guy. Nobody ever asked me if I was married or had a girlfriend.

This from the smart guy who didn't catch that Rowans name is not "Owen".

Sorry to Rowan for getting his name wrong.

ok boys and girls, here's the deal. you go on tour, you get questions. you're something out of the ordinary
and unusual to break up the monotony of the day-to-day same-same in some exotic location.

the locals don't have (or maybe they do) much in common with you, so they ask the typical questions when
you make a pit stop for water or snacks. "how far ya go in a day?", "you get a lotta flats?", "how much did
yer bike cost?", and "where ya sleep at night?"

they're just making conversation - your basic chit-chat. it don't mean nothing. they don't actually CARE
how many flats you get. it's just something you would normally say to a cyclist. you've heard it a thousand
times, but you can't let it annoy you.

same with the more personal questions. they're just making small talk to pass the time. they're asking
questions they would normally ask of normal people. problem is, some folks aren't normal. that's not a
judgement, just a fact. 99.999% of the world's population is straight. others not.

in the normal world, a healthy 20-30 year old would be gittin' hitched, starting a career, and makin' babies.
that's normal. cycling across the country is not normal. 'alternative lifestyles' as well. not normal.

the locals can't tell. if you don't have a cornucopia of rainbow stickers, and don't seem like the human
torch, they'll naturally assume you're, ummm, normal. longer conversations will have them asking "how'd you
get so much time off from work?", "what does your family think about this?", and (oh my lady gaga!) "are
you married?"

if these questions are starting to bug you too much, then you need a break from cycling. return to wherever
it is that you feel comfortable for a while to cool off, and you can continue the tour later.

I have an experience that in some first, second and third world countries people aren't really prepared to face that sexual orientation might be different from theirs and that it means nothing. It doesn't mean that they are true homophobes, but you need to invest time in discussions and they might change their opinion afterwards. Clearly most of them would prefer to have a queer nice neighbor than a straight but aggressive idiot. And since you probably don't have time for this sort of discussions with each and every guy who actually doesn't really care, why waste the time and nerves and not just cut it?

Sorry if i'm saying/repeating something obvious.

This thread is closed for a moment for clean-up. Thanks for your patience.

--Juha, a Forum Mod

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problem is, some folks aren't normal. that's not a
judgement, just a fact. 99.999% of the world's population is straight. others not.

in the normal world, a healthy 20-30 year old would be gittin' hitched, starting a career, and makin' babies.
that's normal. cycling across the country is not normal. 'alternative lifestyles' as well. not normal.


Wow. Where to start with this one? I suspect you are using the word "normal" in place of "prevalent in the majority", but just because most people aren't something, doesn't mean that that something isn't normal, in terms of being something typical in human behavior across different populations. You should be more careful with your words.

Also, your 99.999% figure is at least four orders of magnitude off: Studies vary, but rates of homosexuality are typically estimated to be between 1% and 5% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation), so a better number would be 95%, not 99.999%. I.e., if you're in a room with 20 people or so, odds are pretty good that one of them is gay. Higher if you're in Rio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation#Brazil) or at a roller derby (http://wftda.com/sponsors/2012-demographic-information). That sounds pretty "normal" to me.

I did a 7 month tour through South America, I was regularly asked if I had a girlfriend or was married. I'd say at least 50% of conversations that were longer than, "where is this place", they asked. Dudes also asked me many many times what I thought of the women in their country. I took a cab ride with a guy that beeped his horn at almost every woman on the street, giving me a "am i right!" look. I can see how that would be difficult to deal with. I always just sort of play along in those situations, even though it makes me uncomfortable. It's very different than when touring in the US.

I'm vegan, and I do have a similar issue of when to bring it up in touring situations. People often offered me meals, so it could get tricky, not wanting to offend anyone. I think it's much easier to tell someone you don't eat meat in Latin America than you are gay though, unfortunately it is not widely accepted outside of certain cities, as I'm sure you know.

Maybe it's because I was speaking Spanish (not my first language), but I never felt quite like myself on that tour, I was always adapting to the people around me. Usually it was less of a headache to just roll with things. It was great to come home and be able to just be myself again. I think that's a component of traveling in a foreign country regardless of who you are, you're always out of place in one way or another.

I took a cab ride with a guy that beeped his horn at almost every woman on the street, giving me a "am i right!" look. I can see how that would be difficult to deal with. I always just sort of play along in those situations, even though it makes me uncomfortable. It's very different than when touring in the US.

That sounds pretty uncomfortable. Just wondering if this experience was the norm or if you usually ran into people who were pretty much the opposite. I've only traveled in Mexico, but found most people to be pretty reserved and respectful.

That sounds pretty uncomfortable. Just wondering if this experience was the norm or if you usually ran into people who were pretty much the opposite. I've only traveled in Mexico, but found most people to be pretty reserved and respectful.

No, this guy was an extreme case, he certainly doesn't represent all the people I met.

I took a cab ride with a guy that beeped his horn at almost every woman on the street, giving me a "am i right!" look. I can see how that would be difficult to deal with. I always just sort of play along in those situations, even though it makes me uncomfortable. It's very different than when touring in the US.


That sounds pretty uncomfortable. Just wondering if this experience was the norm or if you usually ran into people who were pretty much the opposite. I've only traveled in Mexico, but found most people to be pretty reserved and respectful.

As a straight male, I don't think I'd enjoy that situation either. I'm glad to hear (as I expected) that isn't very common.

Cheers,
Charles

By the way, out of eight or so years and touring and randonneuring in various places around the world, I don't recall getting into any conversations about my sexuality or marital status.

Aren't you married to someone you met on tour?

There are definitely pockets of queer-friendly spaces in Latin America. The trick is finding them. I totally empathize with you- as a young woman who's often traveling alone in Latin America. Marriage it's always the first question that comes up and I always feel threatened. I started out lying- saying I am married. But recently I have just come out and said, No, not married. I live with my boyfriend. (Not as scary and difficult to say as coming out, but I'm still breaking a bunch of cultural norms by having an inter-racial relationship and living together before marriage.)

I've found that the conversations go better when I'm honest. I feel better about it, they feel better about it, and if they disagree they usually keep their opinions to themselves.

One thing I can say, maybe not all of Latin America but at least Guatemalans- they are OVER polite. They will take a million routes to try not to offend you.

If anyone is looking for LGBT spaces in Guatemala I can point you in the right direction!