Advocacy & Safety - elderly driver hits pedestrian - video

Over the summer I was out riding and I came across a chaotic scene in Torrance. A pedestrian had been hit by a car and was in the road badly injured. Witnesses said the driver slowed down after the colision and then just drove away north bound on PCH.

I could hear many police sirens ahead so I biked up the road about 2 miles where police had finally gotten the motorist to stop. It was an elderly woman driver. She claimed she didnt know she hit anyone. The police never had her handcuffed. Police treated her very very very kindly, not like anything I have seen before and not like they would normally treat someone who just did a felony hit and run.

After about 20 minutes they towed her car but let her go.

I called the police many times to get updates and criminal charges and they wont give me any details but she hasnt been arrested and its 5 months later.

The victim apparently suffered critical injuries.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QNQjLig8qQ

In a situation like that I would be happy with a lifetime driving ban. I find it easy to believe that she really didn't know she had hit someone, in which case criminal charges would be hard to make stick, but at the same time it's a clear admission that she should not be allowed to drive anymore.

I think its impoosible to hit a 150lb mass and have it shatter almost your entire windshield and not know you hit something.

I can feel it when I hit a squirel.

Maybe she has dementia? She can probably get behind the wheel, but much like living in the Twilight Zone - no idea what the heck they're going, doing or other.

Let's hope she has been grounded. Hopefully, the ped is better???

That driver needs their license revoked.

That driver needs their license revoked.

Don't forget to have the car sold off to pay for the injuries, or a special key made (like a combo lock) to prevent her from ever moving the thing again (should she not be driving her own car).

last night I was driving and I stopped at a 4 way stop sign. A car to my right slowly drove through the stop sign and came to a stop on the other side of the intersection. Didn't look good, so I didn't go. The driver then drove backwards through the intersection. Do over, I guess. Elderly driver at the wheel. Not sure what was going on, but in a town of aggressive drivers, it was an accident waiting to happen

Was there someone on a bicycle involved with the story...? Other than the witness/narrator...

I used to live in the same area as a retirement village. Sometimes on quick trips to the market, I would wait in the car while the girlfriend went in. The number of elderly drivers who walked out of that store without a clue to their cars location was astounding.

Was there someone on a bicycle involved with the story...? Other than the witness/narrator...

not that i am aware of

Obviously if she couldn't comprehend that she hit something that big, that hard there is a problem and she shouldn't have been driving but don't jump to criminal conclusions too quickly. It is possible the woman did not know or was unable to cognitively process that she had hit anything. Medication side effects, Alzheimers or other forms of dementia, stroke/TIA, hypoglycemia, or mental illness/dual diagnosis issues can all wipe out a person's judgement or ability to process information.

It is a misconception that age related changes are gradual, progressive, universal, and predictable but that is the furthest thing from the truth.

First off, chronological age (the number of years a person has lived) is not a good indicator of physical age (the state of physical and mental ability). There are some individiuals in their 80s and a few in their 90s who are more physically and mentally capable of driving safely than some people in their 50s and 60s. Read about the 100-year-old cyclist who finished a metric century with a respectable time for a person half his age http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/2012/09/28/hundred-year-old-cyclist-rides/Y1OxxN0lGgERtiCjThP8RN/story.html

Secondly, changes can be slow and subtle, can come on rapidly without warning, or can be intermittent. Ask the spouse or children of someone with early stage of Alzheimers. Sundowners are people with early Alzheimers or other dementia who are cognitively intact and seem perfectly "normal" the majority of the time but as they become tired toward the end of the day, sundown, their mental abilities deteriorate much more severely than the average sleepy person. After a night's sleep and a good breakfast, they are their old selves again, at least for another 12 hours or so. My own mother went through this and it was very difficult to get her to stop driving. My sister and I knew she wasn't safe behind the wheel but she refused to give up the keys and her condition was quite intermittent. Even if there had been re-testing for seniors, she was probably able of passing the test 75% of the time but she would have "bad days" when she was confused and had lots of problems with memory and processing information. The same problems that clouded her judgement behind the wheel also clouded her ability to realize she should not be behind the wheel. Her condition has progressed and on her birthday just this year she finally failed when renewing her drivers license. Even though she is in an assisted living facility and in no way mentally or physically capable of driving, I have no doubt she would try if given the chance. She honestly lacks the ability to assess her own level of function and believes that she can drive as well as she could when she was 30.

Recently I took mom to the drivers license office to get a new state ID card with her current address because she wants to vote. While waiting, there was a 93-year-old man in line in front of us (I know his age because he announced it loudly several times). He wanted to renew his drivers license but was unable to pass the vision test (I don't know if he couldn't see or couldn't understand the instructions) or even fill out the forms. The DMV employee explained to him that his license was expired but they couldn't issue him a new one so he could not legally drive. He launched into a tyrade about how he had been driving since Henry Ford was still alive and how "stupid" the employee was and how ridiculously complicated they made everything and how no *&%#$@ computer was going to tell him he couldn't drive. He pushed his way through the crowd behind him still rambling, crossed the parking lot, got into his car and drove away clipping the curb as he left.

Medical conditions can affect people of any age and can temporarily or permanently affect cognitive functions. I've seen a hypoglycemic person (low blood sugar) clip a car in a parking lot and then get hung up on the median. After treatment they had no recollection of the incident. There are types of seizures that can be completely missed as they don't cause the grand mal muscle activity but result in brief altered consciousness that looks more like daydreaming or an "Alzheimers moment". The person experiencing such a seizure may exhibit unusual behavior or just drift off for a bit only to startle back to alertness with no memory for the last few moments or even minutes, kind of like when a computer has a glitch and you have to give it a minute to catch up. Once quite a few years ago, I wasn't feeling well at work and clocked out to go home early. I vaguely recall telling my co-workers and boss I was leaving and getting in my pickup but I don't remember the drive home and woke up on my livingroom floor with my jacket still on and a dried up bloody nose. I had a high fever and lost about an hour from memory including the 8 mile drive. Scared the crap out of me but there was no damage to my vehicle and no reports of a hit and run.

Was there someone on a bicycle involved with the story...? Other than the witness/narrator...

Some BF posters have favorite "bicycling advocacy" punching bags: cell phone users, Walmart, SUVs, soccer moms, fast food joints, etc. The OP hit on two - elderly people and big bad police force.

Some BF posters have favorite "bicycling advocacy" punching bags: cell phone users, Walmart, SUVs, soccer moms, fast food joints, etc....

Don't forget Forester or the Dutch; depending on religious affiliation.

Don't forget Forester or the Dutch; depending on religious affiliation.

But at least those two are bicycling related punching bags. :thumb:

Don't forget Forester or the Dutch; depending on religious affiliation.

Especially those old Dutch cops... I hate them.

Especially those old Dutch cops... I hate them.

I hear they like to beat confessions out of young bicycling enthusiasts who dare to wear helmets or Spandex on the streets of The Netherlands.

I hear they like to beat confessions out of young bicycling enthusiasts who dare to wear helmets or Spandex on the streets of The Netherlands.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Only if the edited video version shows up on YouTube, eh?

The embedded link didn't appear in my browser, so I'll assume that it shows where an elderly driver nailed a cyclist, and was found to be incapable of competently operating a motor vehicle.

I'm a pilot, and I am a strong proponent of applying pilot recurrency standards to motorists. They are these: 1) Every 24 calendar months all pilots are to undergo a flight review with an instructor or examiner and demonstrate competency in the air, and knowledge of all aspect of general aviation in the classroom; and 2) Every six, 12 or 24 calendar months (depending upon which class of medical certificate desired) all pilots are to pass a medical exam administered by an Aviation Medical Examiner. Further, most violations of the law must be reported to the FAA (including arrests & DUIs) which may determine that an investigation is warranted or the pilot's privileges suspende or revoked.

These same standards should be required for motorists, and I challenge anyone who disagrees to say why.

I called the police many times to get updates and criminal charges and they wont give me any details but she hasnt been arrested and its 5 months later.

Why is it any of your business?

The embedded link didn't appear in my browser, so I'll assume that it shows where an elderly driver nailed a cyclist, and was found to be incapable of competently operating a motor vehicle.
The video does NOT show that an elderly driver nailed a cyclist, nor who was the driver, nor if anybody was elderly or found to to be incapable of competently operating a motor vehicle.

The embedded link didn't appear in my browser, so I'll assume that it shows where an elderly driver nailed a cyclist, and was found to be incapable of competently operating a motor vehicle.

I'm a pilot, and I am a strong proponent of applying pilot recurrency standards to motorists. They are these: 1) Every 24 calendar months all pilots are to undergo a flight review with an instructor or examiner and demonstrate competency in the air, and knowledge of all aspect of general aviation in the classroom; and 2) Every six, 12 or 24 calendar months (depending upon which class of medical certificate desired) all pilots are to pass a medical exam administered by an Aviation Medical Examiner. Further, most violations of the law must be reported to the FAA (including arrests & DUIs) which may determine that an investigation is warranted or the pilot's privileges suspende or revoked.

These same standards should be required for motorists, and I challenge anyone who disagrees to say why.
We do have a dumbed-down version for commercial drivers. We have to have an ineffective medical exam every two years. I think the presence of a pulse and a temperature that exceeds that of the clinic is sufficient to pass and continue motoring down the road with 80,000 pounds (105,500 in OR).

At some point in the past year, I read an article (I think it was in the NY Times) about a new approach that some insurance companies were considering. They were basically testing for people's sense of entitlement. Those who scored highest also had the highest rate of collisions. Maybe something like this should be incorporated into the requirements for a license to drive.

The embedded link didn't appear in my browser, so I'll assume that it shows where an elderly driver nailed a cyclist, and was found to be incapable of competently operating a motor vehicle.

I'm a pilot, and I am a strong proponent of applying pilot recurrency standards to motorists. They are these: 1) Every 24 calendar months all pilots are to undergo a flight review with an instructor or examiner and demonstrate competency in the air, and knowledge of all aspect of general aviation in the classroom; and 2) Every six, 12 or 24 calendar months (depending upon which class of medical certificate desired) all pilots are to pass a medical exam administered by an Aviation Medical Examiner. Further, most violations of the law must be reported to the FAA (including arrests & DUIs) which may determine that an investigation is warranted or the pilot's privileges suspende or revoked.

These same standards should be required for motorists, and I challenge anyone who disagrees to say why.

Easy. There aren't 50,000,000 pilots. Unless you want to make drivers pay for the additional testing personnel (maybe not a bad idea), it'd cost too much and be too hard to administer between 50 state DMV's

Like the concept though.

These same standards should be required for motorists, and I challenge anyone who disagrees to say why.

It would cost hundreds of billions of dollars. Even if you could make the case that it would offset that much losses due to not killing people or disabling them, Americans seem much happier with $10 in delayed costs instead of $1 in immediate costs (just look at mobile phone contracts).

Easy. There aren't 50,000,000 pilots. Unless you want to make drivers pay for the additional testing personnel (maybe not a bad idea), it'd cost too much and be too hard to administer between 50 state DMV's

Like the concept though.
50,000,000?
In 2006, there were nearly 203 million licensed drivers in the United States. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/pl08021/fig4_3.cfm

But why be concerned about the costs? A bicyclist has a "good idea" about how to put it to those evil low down good-for-nothing motorists so it must be worthy regardless of cost, practicability, or any proven (or likely) effectiveness in improving cyclist safety.

Just for laffs, who is going to write the tests for establishing driver fitness (including where will driving near cyclists fit into the testing)?

The police? the AAA? the Federal or 50 state DOT's? or a gaggle of cycling Drama Queens? And who will grade the tests? Bet the OP won't like the idea of it being his/her local police department.

50,000,000?
In 2006, there were nearly 203 million licensed drivers in the United States. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/pl08021/fig4_3.cfm

But why be concerned about the costs? A bicyclist has a "good idea" about how to put it to those evil low down good-for-nothing motorists so it must be worthy regardless of cost, practicability, or any proven (or likely) effectiveness in improving cyclist safety.

Just for laffs, who is going to write the tests for establishing driver fitness (including where will driving near cyclists fit into the testing)?

The police? the AAA? the Federal or 50 state DOT's? or a gaggle of cycling Drama Queens? And who will grade the tests? Bet the OP won't like the idea of it being his/her local police department.

If such a proposal was implemented and increased safety on our roadways, it would mostly affect motorists' safety, since they are the ones suffering most of the highway deaths and injuries.

Of course, if we had an actual skills and knowledge test for a license to drive that required better than D-student performance to pass, we would either have far fewer motorists or we would have a better grade of motorist.

Why is it any of your business?

Its my business if I make it my business.

We have a problem in America with elderly drivers and society at large doesnt take it seriously. People are being killed and injured every day.

My local corporate media doesnt report stories like these so I try to.

The video does NOT show that an elderly driver nailed a cyclist, nor who was the driver, nor if anybody was elderly or found to to be incapable of competently operating a motor vehicle.

My video shows the elderly driver.

I dont know what your definition of "competently" is but when you strike a pedestrian and then lead police on a 3 mile chase not pulling over for 20 cop cars with lights and sirens then I would say she is "incompetent".

Its my business if I make it my business.

We have a problem in America with elderly drivers and society at large doesnt take it seriously. People are being killed and injured every day.

My local corporate media doesnt report stories like these so I try to.
How do you find the time for all your various crusades for freedom?

Its my business if I make it my business.

We have a problem in America with elderly drivers and society at large doesnt take it seriously. People are being killed and injured every day.

My local corporate media doesnt report stories like these so I try to.

Okay, Mrs. Kravitz

http://heddalettuce.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Mrs-kravitz-bewitched-300x232.jpg

Its my business if I make it my business.

We have a problem in America with elderly drivers and society at large doesnt take it seriously. People are being killed and injured every day.

My local corporate media doesnt report stories like these so I try to.

I'd like to add that the video you posted is about a PEDESTRIAN vs a cyclist. If you were to post this information on a ped-friendly site you'd probably get more traction with regards to the indignation you seem to feel regarding elderly drivers.

That said - any information on the health of the critically injured pedestrian?

Cheers,

Essex

50,000,000?
In 2006, there were nearly 203 million licensed drivers in the United States. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/pl08021/fig4_3.cfm

But why be concerned about the costs? A bicyclist has a "good idea" about how to put it to those evil low down good-for-nothing motorists so it must be worthy regardless of cost, practicability, or any proven (or likely) effectiveness in improving cyclist safety.

Just for laffs, who is going to write the tests for establishing driver fitness (including where will driving near cyclists fit into the testing)?

The police? the AAA? the Federal or 50 state DOT's? or a gaggle of cycling Drama Queens? And who will grade the tests? Bet the OP won't like the idea of it being his/her local police department.

Also - who is going to volunteer to drive those elderly drivers whose privilege is removed? Who is volunteering to run errands, pick up groceries, etc.

Logan's Run :rolleyes:

Easy. There aren't 50,000,000 pilots. Unless you want to make drivers pay for the additional testing personnel (maybe not a bad idea), it'd cost too much and be too hard to administer between 50 state DMV's

Like the concept though.

Not a bad idea at all, except I want to see progressive fees for this test...

I'd like to add that the video you posted is about a PEDESTRIAN vs a cyclist. If you were to post this information on a ped-friendly site you'd probably get more traction with regards to the indignation you seem to feel regarding elderly drivers.

That said - any information on the health of the critically injured pedestrian?

Cheers,

Essex


Elderly drivers hit cyclists too.

How do you find the time for all your various crusades for freedom?


There are 24 hours in my day. How many are in yours ?

Elderly drivers hit cyclists too.

You're missing the point. Posting and getting ticked off about elderly drivers on this forum does very little in the aggregate. I'd focus my energy on local laws. As a start I would suggest you hit up some people who have the ability from a administrative perspective to change local law. That said - I don't remember Torrance as an exceptionally progressive city.

I'd try hitting up some council members, or people in the traffic commission:

http://www.torranceca.gov/1928.htm

http://www.torranceca.gov/2412.htm

You're missing the point. Posting and getting ticked off about elderly drivers on this forum does very little in the aggregate. I'd focus my energy on local laws. As a start I would suggest you hit up some people who have the ability from a administrative perspective to change local law. That said - I don't remember Torrance as an exceptionally progressive city.

I'd try hitting up some council members, or people in the traffic commission:




Well I make my videos to show to the public so they can become aware of problems they might not be aware of. Then when enough people feel strongly about it they can lobby to their politicans for change.

When corporate media wont expose things then I try to do it.

Licensing for driving is a state issue, not municipal.

Well I make my videos to show to the public so they can become aware of problems they might not be aware of. Then when enough people feel strongly about it they can lobby to their politicans for change.

When corporate media wont expose things then I try to do it.

Licensing for driving is a state issue, not municipal.

Good on you. I think municipal leaders might be interested in how their local police followed up too.

Elderly drivers hit cyclists too

Perhaps you should consider using "drivers with diminished capacity" instead of "elderly" as the two are not synonymous and the former is less likely to cause offense. As I mentioned in my other post, chronologic age is not the determining factor in physical and cognitive ability. You don't have to look very hard to find numerous cases of individuals in their 50s and 60s who are significantly more impared behind the wheel than some drivers in their 70s and 80s. There are a good number of drivers in their 20s and 30s whose ability behind the wheel scares the hell out of me.


I called the police many times to get updates and criminal charges and they wont give me any details but she hasnt been arrested and its 5 months later.

I dont know what your definition of "competently" is but when you strike a pedestrian and then lead police on a 3 mile chase not pulling over for 20 cop cars with lights and sirens then I would say she is "incompetent".

You are showing your own incompetence when it comes to the law. If someone is found to be incompetent to understand the consequences of their actions or to participate in their defense they cannot be criminally charged. It then becomes a civil matter for the court to determine if the person needs to be committed or to have a guardian appointed. There may be court ordered treatment if treatment is available which may restore competency.

Finding someone incompetent to stand trial does not necessarily release them or their insurance company from civil liability for damages, but since you were not an involved party, in the eyes of the law civil proceedings are none of your business. For all you know the woman lost her drivers license and has a court ordered guardian and her insurance company is paying for the damages.

The embedded link didn't appear in my browser, so I'll assume that it shows where an elderly driver nailed a cyclist, and was found to be incapable of competently operating a motor vehicle.

I'm a pilot, and I am a strong proponent of applying pilot recurrency standards to motorists. They are these: 1) Every 24 calendar months all pilots are to undergo a flight review with an instructor or examiner and demonstrate competency in the air, and knowledge of all aspect of general aviation in the classroom; and 2) Every six, 12 or 24 calendar months (depending upon which class of medical certificate desired) all pilots are to pass a medical exam administered by an Aviation Medical Examiner. Further, most violations of the law must be reported to the FAA (including arrests & DUIs) which may determine that an investigation is warranted or the pilot's privileges suspende or revoked.

These same standards should be required for motorists, and I challenge anyone who disagrees to say why.

Because the cost of said proposal is much higher than I am willing to pay. The potential for the damage a commercial pilot may cause through poor flying is much greater than that of a poor driver. So is the cost worth the benefit? Not to me, nor apparently the various state legislators.

I'm a pilot, and I am a strong proponent of applying pilot recurrency standards to motorists. They are these: 1) Every 24 calendar months all pilots are to undergo a flight review with an instructor or examiner and demonstrate competency in the air, and knowledge of all aspect of general aviation in the classroom; and 2) Every six, 12 or 24 calendar months (depending upon which class of medical certificate desired) all pilots are to pass a medical exam administered by an Aviation Medical Examiner. Further, most violations of the law must be reported to the FAA (including arrests & DUIs) which may determine that an investigation is warranted or the pilot's privileges suspende or revoked . . . .

Make it med exams by any physician every and I'm with you. The license fee would go way up but likely worth the price. A boom in driving training programs could be a boost to the economy.