General Cycling Discussion - Riding"armed" against dog attacks.......

This is why I believe that all cyclist should carry some sort of 'arms' to protect themselves against a lethal dog attack. Be it a gun,a spring wand, pepper spray or ammonia in a spray bottle you need something to mean business when attacked by any dog.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/10/18/delaware-postal-worker-attacked-by-dogs-dies/

This falls under the helmet argument. Does a helmet save a life once in a while? Probably. But is it necessary for everyone to wear one, every ride? That's up to the rider to decide.

So far, sprinkling a little water in a dog's general direction has been highly effective against the most dangerous dogs I've encountered.

The article does not even try to make a causal link the attack to the death.

Attacked on Friday, treated and released and then died next Wednesday.

This falls under the helmet argument. Does a helmet save a life once in a while? Probably. But is it necessary for everyone to wear one, every ride? That's up to the rider to decide.
.

Did we forget the fact that seat belts save lives?? Like the seatbelt you can't use what you don't have so also like the seatbelt carrying no protection against dogs can't save you.

1. As Keith99 states, there is no connection implied in the article between the attack and the death.

2. What good is a gun going to do? If you're riding a bike and a dog gives chase, it'll be on you before the gun is out of the holster, unless you ride around with the gun out which is crazy dangerous. People who see guns as the answers to life's problems are idiots.

People who see guns as the answers to life's problems are idiots.

"He said 'hey there fella with the hair colored yella,
what you tryin' to prove? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of5aylTtkPU)'"
I'm with you Chickenhead, and with Lynrd Skynrd on this one. :thumb:

Ibtl

I'm thinking it's probably more necessary for some riders than others. I'm convinced that dogs can sense and only harass the riders who are afraid of dogs.

1. As Keith99 states, there is no connection implied in the article between the attack and the death.

2. What good is a gun going to do? If you're riding a bike and a dog gives chase, it'll be on you before the gun is out of the holster, unless you ride around with the gun out which is crazy dangerous. People who see guns as the answers to life's problems are idiots.

A gun is but one choice of self defense weapon.............

Anything under .40 cal just don't have enough stopping power. That's what i say.

That's a pretty gereralized statement calling people idiots who are in favor of using guns.

It's true that they will not fix all of lifes problems. It won't get you a better grade in school, or make the boss give you a raise and so on.

However,it solved some problems in 1776, WW1, WW2 etc. I don't think they were idiots.
A 12 year old girl just shot an intruder during a home invasion. She was scared and defended herself. The same way you would defend yourself agaist an attacking animal.
This doesn't make people carrying a legal firearm an idiot.
The muzzle blast alone would rattle an attacking dog.

It's like my grandpa used to say, "if your gonna get in a gunfight, have a long gun". So I ride with an SKS slung over my shoulder.

That's a pretty gereralized statement calling people idiots who are in favor of using guns.
True. Perhaps "pathetic" is a less generalized and more accurate statement.


However,it solved some problems in 1776, WW1, WW2 etc. I don't think they were idiots.
One could also argue that "it" started those problems in the first place.


A 12 year old girl just shot an intruder during a home invasion. She was scared and defended herself. The same way you would defend yourself agaist an attacking animal.
And recently a father just shot his own son to death, when he thought he was an intruder on his neighbor's property. Darwin is cruel to the individual, but kind to the species.


This doesn't make people carrying a legal firearm an idiot.
The muzzle blast alone would rattle an attacking dog.
No, more pathetic than idiots. If you can't face life in the scary, scary world without a gun, just stay home and watch Clint Eastwood movies.

http://www.pstracks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/the_good__the_bad_and_the_ugly_2.jpeg

Calamari,
Incase you haven't noticed this is a scary scary world.
Because someone doesn't share your views doesn't make them an idiot.
There is no reason to start name calling. I have a right to defend myself any way I can and so do you.
If the military defending our freedoms didn't use firearms to stop oppression, we might be speaking Japanese and German.
This is getting to far off topic, as far as I'm concerned, Nuff said.

Bobn.
It's not that scary for those of us who aren't pathetic. (I never said anyone was an idiot.)
I spent 7+ years in the Army, and seen what bullets do to a body. And I reiterate: the oppression probably wouldn't have been initiated in the first place without guns. Guns are never a solution; they are a reaction, and frequently an unjustified, knee-jerk reaction.
Sorry to drag you away from your TV.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/good-bad-ugly.jpg

Cold dead hands. That's what I say.

Rather than guns I always bring my mother-in-law with me on the bike as a first line of defense as they will bite her first instead of me. http://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

I'm joking ...

... she's not on the bike. She is in the trailer behind

That's a pretty generalized statement calling people idiots who are in favor of using guns.

It's true that they will not fix all of lifes problems. It won't get you a better grade in school, or make the boss give you a raise and so on.

However,it solved some problems in 1776, WW1, WW2 etc. I don't think they were idiots.
A 12 year old girl just shot an intruder during a home invasion. She was scared and defended herself. The same way you would defend yourself against an attacking animal.
This doesn't make people carrying a legal firearm an idiot.
The muzzle blast alone would rattle an attacking dog.

My feelings exactly. However... I take exception to firing at a dog while riding a bike. Remember, if you miss you are still responsible for that fired round. Mebbe a squirt bottle with a little ammonia mixed in would be sufficient. Just sayin'...

In Massachusetts, it's illegal to discharge a firearm within 500' of an occupied dwelling, unless you have the prior consent of the owner/occupant. Since most dogs run out of their owner's yard, it's pretty much the case that you'll be shooting inside that 500' zone. It's also illegal to discharge a firearm from a public way. Firing at a dog is also a good way to lose your carry license. Good luck convincing the chief of police that you had no other viable alternative when you're at the hearing that will be called to decide whether you get your permit back. If a dog has a prior history of biting, chances are that it wouldn't be attacking you, because it probably would have been ordered to be put down.

In Massachusetts, it's illegal to discharge a firearm within 500' of an occupied dwelling, unless you have the prior consent of the owner/occupant. Since most dogs run out of their owner's yard, it's pretty much the case that you'll be shooting inside that 500' zone. It's also illegal to discharge a firearm from a public way. Firing at a dog is also a good way to lose your carry license. Good luck convincing the chief of police that you had no other viable alternative when you're at the hearing that will be called to decide whether you get your permit back. If a dog has a prior history of biting, chances are that it wouldn't be attacking you, because it probably would have been ordered to be put down.


This topic is neither easy or fair since the solutions stumble over a bunch of other laws that give the dog more rights than the rider being attacked!

At the end of the day self preservation is all that matters.

Whoah a gun thread. This is always interesting! :popcorn:

ibtl/ibtm

no need to shot the dog, use the bike as a shield. If there is more than one dog then ... you 're done

I'm thinking it's probably more necessary for some riders than others. I'm convinced that dogs can sense and only harass the riders who are afraid of dogs.

Untrue. Unless they do it by magic. The closest a dog has come to getting me was one who was hiding the the tall grass and lunged at me.

I had no idea a dog was there until the lunge.

My experience has been that there is a lot more of territorialism involved. I cannot recall ever having a dog try to chase me when I was not quite sure exactly wher home was for that dog.

Incase you haven't noticed this is a scary scary world.

I ain't skeered. Wut 'r you skeered uv?

This topic is neither easy or fair since the solutions stumble over a bunch of other laws that give the dog more rights than the rider being attacked!

At the end of the day self preservation is all that matters.

You can discharge a water bottle at a dog whenever you want. And it works.

You can discharge a water bottle at a dog whenever you want. And it works.

Exactly. A spray bottle is a very common tool that professional trainers use to break a dog of bad habits. Most dogs hate getting hit with that spray. Plain water works as well as diluted ammonia.

...and cue the animal behaviorists, dog experts/whisperers! :innocent:

Has anyone tried a tennis ball? Throw it down at the ground right in front of the dog and distract it?

But I already have a water bottle, and don't normally carry a tennis ball. Additionally, if the dog likes to chase tennis balls, it teaches the dog that cyclists may bring tennis balls for them, and will throw them when they chase the cyclist. The next cyclist probably won't have a tennis ball.

I have an aluminum water bottle so the time i finish opening the water bottle, I will be missing one leg and one arm

I have an aluminum water bottle so the time i finish opening the water bottle, I will be missing one leg and one arm

The procedure isn't foolproof, there will be casualty's of course. We will remember you if you don't survive.

Thank you for your support :injured:

...and cue the animal behaviorists, dog experts/whisperers! :innocent:

I would but it would make no difference.

I've spent my adult life traveling around the US on a bicycle. (I haven't spent much time outside the country because I have my own unreasonable fears:rolleyes:) All of my travels have been in areas where I have never been before so I don't know where the problem dogs are like a local would. That said, I've never run across an animal that I couldn't deal with nor have I felt the need to be 'armed' with anything more than the head on my shoulders. I don't pull out my pump, I don't kick at the dog and I certainly don't try to out run it...which isn't something that you can do on a bike that's carrying 50 lb of gear.

And I would never...ever...pull a gun to deal with a dog. That wouldn't solve anything. First there's the issue of discharging a fire arm while trying to ride a bike. I doubt that it's suggested by anyone. Second there is the issue of aiming and hitting a dog while trying to ride a bike. Then there's the issue of what happens if you miss. Contrary to Hollywood myth, a discharged bullet doesn't evaporate. Since most dogs are around people and most people are around houses, I wouldn't want to be responsible for the path of that discharged bullet and what it might hit.

As for chemical means, I, frankly, don't need to carry more stuff when I ride, not when I already carry the weapon that is most effective in dealing with dogs...my brain.

Note: This story (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/19857677/posta) says that the man suffered chest pains and died 5 days later. Not exactly "died in a dog attack" as reported in the first link.

Untrue. Unless they do it by magic.

It's been awhile but I was riding a tandem in southern Illinois with my 13 year old son and a group of 5 other riders who were all on single bikes. As we passed a farmstead, a group of 5 dogs came running out at us. Each of the single bike riders reached for their weapon of choice - water bottle, frame pump, one woman had some kind of ultrasonic thingie. Neither my son nor I did anything. As the situation settled out, each of the armed single bike riders had a dog barking at their heels. My son and I, who did nothing, were left to ride unharrassed.

I don't know how they do it, but I'm convinced that dogs somehow sense fear and home in on it.

FWIW, I fear these threads more than I fear dogs. I've never been bitten while riding a bike. I never carry any kind of dog repellant with me when I ride and, when I carry a water bottle on my recumbent, it would be hard to get at in the event of a dog attack. My fear is jinxing myself like what happens when you brag about never getting flat tires.

I have an aluminum water bottle so the time i finish opening the water bottle, I will be missing one leg and one arm

And if you have a gun, there is the same issue. You carry it in a holster or maybe trunk bag. By the time you get to it, the dog threat is resolved. If you see the dog coming and get your gun out, you're riding a while with a gun out, not the safest thing, especially if you have the safety off. However... in your aluminum water bottle scenario, you *could* open it up as soon as you see the dog, or even before you see it, if you're in an area where you think there might be dogs. There isn't the same risk riding with an open water bottle that there is with an un-safed gun.

Meanwhile in Canada:

No C&C, everyone is eaten by dogs.

But I already have a water bottle, and don't normally carry a tennis ball. Additionally, if the dog likes to chase tennis balls, it teaches the dog that cyclists may bring tennis balls for them, and will throw them when they chase the cyclist. The next cyclist probably won't have a tennis ball.

And that might be yuo on hte way home!

Also overall I'd say about half the time I see a dog loose it is not just one.

There isn't the same risk riding with an open water bottle that there is with an un-safed gun.

Not so sure. Opened water bottles are dangerous too.
Water could spill up to my eyes. Blinded I could reach a fence then died impaled. And the dog could finish what it already started ... eating my other arm and leg :lol:

A city in my state just increased the penalty for dog owners who allow their dogs to run loose. Unfortunately all it does is double the fine from forty to 80 dollars... I don't think that will do much to help us.

A city in my state just increased the penalty for dog owners who allow their dogs to run loose. Unfortunately all it does is double the fine from forty to 80 dollars... I don't think that will do much to help us.

Fines are only as good as the enforcement of the statues as they are written. Finding a cop to enforce animal control is almost impossible. Most of the time the cop just shoots the dog when it snarls at him.

Never without my pepper spray. I carry it clipped in my jersey pocket and have it my hand ready to go long before a dog gets to me. I only spray if it gets near me and I don't wait to decide if he's going to bite or not. Does no harm to the dog and actually does it good. Might keep him off the street and getting hit by a car(for all the bleeding hearts out there that can't figure that out unless they read it somewhere...)

Never without my pepper spray. I carry it clipped in my jersey pocket and have it my hand ready to go long before a dog gets to me. I only spray if it gets near me and I don't wait to decide if he's going to bite or not. Does no harm to the dog and actually does it good. Might keep him off the street and getting hit by a car(for all the bleeding hearts out there that can't figure that out unless they read it somewhere...)

I like the way you think!!

Man these threads are crazy.

Never been 'attacked' my whole life by a dog. Can't even imagine it happening.

Been chased a ton , sure. But to ride 'armed' because of a Dog?

Geez......

Never had a nuclear bomb on your head, nor you bike stolen, nor a virus in your computer, nor a car accident, nor lost a kid, nor got really sick, nor lost your job etc...

Just summing up what security is ...
prepare for something that will probably never happen

You don't prepare for any of those things. You can only deal with it if it ever happens.

However, if a random dog is as eventful for you as a nuclear bomb on you head then I suggest you never leave your bomb shelter. :)

Problem solved in advance.

Good idea. See you in year 2100:50:

good work

From what I see in the posts on this subject
With all the derisive comments
Is that a most of you have never been bit by a dog
you think it is a minor annoyance or somthing
well its not
dogs when they bite will tear ligaments,muscle,veins,and arteries
and that is if they bite you on your arm or leg
if its your face or crotch you can end up without your nose,lips an eye or some other important parts

i myself have been bitten more than once in unprovoked attacks
the pain from stitches bruising ect,ect, is not enjoyable
i dont know if a person has to carry a gun to protect themselves
but you should have somthing

I really hope none of you clowns (ya Im name calling) that are making so lite of this subject are never attacked
but if you are good luck with your water bottles and your dog whispering theories
me I will stick with pepper spray, a club, or a 1911

You don't prepare for any of those things. You can only deal with it if it ever happens.

However, if a random dog is as eventful for you as a nuclear bomb on you head then I suggest you never leave your bomb shelter. :)

Problem solved in advance.

Yeah, I don't carry a ton of tools and spares in case that I have a breakdown either. I'm frequently surprised at the amount of stuff that some people feel they need to carry with them on every ride. I'm typing this from home so I've obviously always managed to get back.

I really hope none of you clowns (ya Im name calling) that are making so lite of this subject are never attacked
but if you are good luck with your water bottles and your dog whispering theories
me I will stick with pepper spray, a club, or a 1911

First let me say that I'm sorry that you've been bitten. Then let me say that I never make light of the subject of dealing with dogs. When I tell you that I deal with dogs in the way that I deal with them, I am trying to be helpful. My method comes from years of experience with hundreds of dog encounters. Most of the dogs I encounter are friendly but I still approach them as if they weren't. By establishing control at the very beginning of any encounter, I'm not going to have a problem with a friendly dog and I'll be in better standing if things escallate.

If you feel you need to carry a weapon, feel free but realize you may have to deal with the consequences of carrying a fire arm and trying to use it from a bicycle, especially in an urban area or around people's house...which is where most of the dogs live. I've never encountered any dog that wasn't within a few hundred feet of a house. I realize that there's the possibilty of encountering a dog miles from no where but it is very small.