Advocacy & Safety - The root of distracted driving

I have figured out the root cause of distracted driving, cars today are easy and boring to drive. Drive an older car with a lively engine and a manual transmission and you'll see the difference. It doesn't even have to be that old, one of my last cars before going car free was an 89 Renault Alliance. That car was a hoot, nice gear box and a lively little 4 banger that put out less than 100hp. It was great fun revving the hell out of that car and rowing the gears while zipping in and out of traffic. It had 4 wheel independent suspension and it made me feel like a race car driver at a whopping 35mph. The fact is it's more fun to drive a slow car "fast" than it is to drive a fast car slow. It had power nothing except for the brakes. No power steering even, for entertainment I had an AM/FM radio that would spontaneously change stations. It was great, no distractions kept my eyes on the road and my mind focused on the task at hand.

On the other extreme I've had the pleasure and privilege of owning and building several vintage muscle cars. A couple approached 500 horsepower. When you're driving classic American iron, with classic American suspension and brakes, with more power on tap than some semi's your attention is definitely focused on the task at hand. Especially if you get caught in rain with DOT slicks and drum brakes. State of the art in 1968 is wholly outdated today. Forget about talking on your phone, with both feet working pedals and one hand on the wheel and the other hand on the shifter doing anything but driving is virtually impossible. Even with a Bluetooth the cockpit noise is enough to loosen the fillings in your teeth.

In the middle fall trucks, I've had a few muscle trucks, they're squirrely at best with little to no weight over the drive tires and a ton of power under the hood. It was easy to get careless and get sideways through a corner. Big 4x4's present their own set of challenges as the truck gets higher and the tires get bigger. Towing a heavy load with a 460 and a 5 speed in the 3 dimensional driving this area offers requires constant thought and attention. You'd better be looking a ways down the road to be safe.

So what we need is cars that are not boring to drive, if drivers weren't bored they wouldn't need distractions. We need to get back to simple cars that are fun to drive. Once the driver is actively engaged in the process of driving they'll be less distracted.

"Spoiled lazy American driving automatic transmission" - Smug Euro accent

"Spoiled lazy American driving automatic transmission" - Smug Euro accent

Pretty much, drive a Toyota Camry. The damn thing will put you to sleep. With adaptive cruise control you don't even have to touch the brake when you hit traffic!

I have a 2001 Subaru Outback with a manual transmission. It's not a sports car but it's fairly snappy and responsive. I don't even like to hunt around for a radio station while driving it, much less look at my phone.

Sometimes at work I drive one of the company vehicles, either a Ford F150 or a newer Toyota 4Runner, both auto trans. It doesn't even feel like driving. I'm just sitting in a flying chair. Way too easy to drive these and fiddle around with gadgets.

I bet folks would stop driving distracted if we replaced the air bags that protect the driver with sharp knives.

Maybe it's just me but I drive a hell of a lot more these days. More time in car= less time to do other things= more temptation to multitask.

I agree there are too many "creature comforts" inside of a car that make driving way too easy.


I have figured out the root cause of distracted driving, cars today are easy and boring to drive. Drive an older car with a lively engine and a manual transmission and you'll see the difference. It doesn't even have to be that old, one of my last cars before going car free was an 89 Renault Alliance. That car was a hoot, nice gear box and a lively little 4 banger that put out less than 100hp. It was great fun revving the hell out of that car and rowing the gears while zipping in and out of traffic. It had 4 wheel independent suspension and it made me feel like a race car driver at a whopping 35mph. The fact is it's more fun to drive a slow car "fast" than it is to drive a fast car slow. It had power nothing except for the brakes. No power steering even, for entertainment I had an AM/FM radio that would spontaneously change stations. It was great, no distractions kept my eyes on the road and my mind focused on the task at hand.

On the other extreme I've had the pleasure and privilege of owning and building several vintage muscle cars. A couple approached 500 horsepower. When you're driving classic American iron, with classic American suspension and brakes, with more power on tap than some semi's your attention is definitely focused on the task at hand. Especially if you get caught in rain with DOT slicks and drum brakes. State of the art in 1968 is wholly outdated today. Forget about talking on your phone, with both feet working pedals and one hand on the wheel and the other hand on the shifter doing anything but driving is virtually impossible. Even with a Bluetooth the cockpit noise is enough to loosen the fillings in your teeth.

In the middle fall trucks, I've had a few muscle trucks, they're squirrely at best with little to no weight over the drive tires and a ton of power under the hood. It was easy to get careless and get sideways through a corner. Big 4x4's present their own set of challenges as the truck gets higher and the tires get bigger. Towing a heavy load with a 460 and a 5 speed in the 3 dimensional driving this area offers requires constant thought and attention. You'd better be looking a ways down the road to be safe.

So what we need is cars that are not boring to drive, if drivers weren't bored they wouldn't need distractions. We need to get back to simple cars that are fun to drive. Once the driver is actively engaged in the process of driving they'll be less distracted.

What exactly are you jokers advocating?

What exactly are you jokers advocating?

Steering wheel spikes, no dash padding, no airbags, no seatbelts or headrests, no collapsible steering columns...

Steering wheel spikes, no dash padding, no airbags, no seatbelts or headrests, no collapsible steering columns...

I believe some of these jokers ARE serious about their anti-motorist (counter culture) proposals, and in turn are recognized as flaming silly boys by the general public and not taken seriously at all about any issue.

I believe some of these jokers ARE serious about their anti-motorist (counter culture) proposals, and in turn are recognized as flaming silly boys by the general public and not taken seriously at all about any issue.

Yeah, there's that... A motor vehicle black box might be an alternative, but that would get the 4th/5th amendment adherents frothing at the mouth.

What exactly are you jokers advocating?

That we return to the good old days when a 30mph crash would likely be fatal. Give the drivers some incentive to be careful. :D I'd say more than half the vehicles I've owned in my life were old enough to not have seat belts. It sure made me pay attention to what I was doing.

I would call this thread tongue-in-cheek, but we can get serious if you want.

I suggest that one look up the term 'moving meditation' Any repetitive activity (which includes cycling and driving) can induce a state where one is distracted...

If your aim is to eliminate the distracted operation of any vehicle, the only course of action is to eliminate the human operator...

How about a shock collar for driver's ed students? You make a mistake and zap. Keep making the same stupid mistakes and the voltage gets turned up. For the real hardcase's 5 minutes alone in a room with a traffic cop that just spent all night working a gruesome accident scene.

It is not the cars. It is the roads that are to good. Designed for 80 mph and the speed limit is 55. Go back to gravel or start adding potholes and bumps to the road. Then the drivers have to both slow down and pay more attention to what they are doing. As an added plus, since the drivers would be going slower the accidents won't be as severe, which mens fewer fatalities.

I don't even like to hunt around for a radio station while driving, much less look at my phone.

Every motorist should be like this!! Great ethic!!!


Sometimes at work I drive one of the company vehicles, either a Ford F150 or a newer Toyota 4Runner, both auto trans. It doesn't even feel like driving. I'm just sitting in a flying chair. Way too easy to drive these and fiddle around with gadgets.

While I don't have a drivers' license, I do recall, when I was a teen, sometimes riding in my aunt's Toyota Camry and thinking how simple an automatic transmission seemed to drive. Almost too easy.

How about a shock collar for driver's ed students? You make a mistake and zap. Keep making the same stupid mistakes and the voltage gets turned up. For the real hardcase's 5 minutes alone in a room with a traffic cop that just spent all night working a gruesome accident scene.

Excellent idea!!!!!

What exactly are you jokers advocating?

What are you advocating?

I don't know if it's so much the 'older' cars, but the mentality I see far too much is people expect to be able to multitask behind the wheel, and vehicle manufacturers keep adding more gadgets to help people do so. I'm all for safety systems (anti-lock brakes, rear-view cameras in vehicles with poor rear visibility, and the like), but I hate convenience features which seem to lead many drivers to not think.

I have mixed feelings about blind spot warnings on side-view mirrors. To me they're a sign that drivers decide not to turn their heads, even knowing their cars have blind spots. All-in-one dash systems are a huge pet peeve of mine. The same monitor needs to be navigated via a series of menus in some cars, to access navigation, stereo systems, vehicle status indicators, etc. "But that's OK! The car has sensors that will brake automatically if I'm about to rear-end someone, so I don't have to look at the road. OH S*** I drifted out of the lane!"

In short, I think drivers need to stop taking everything for granted. Safety features are wonderful, but safety starts with the driver.

Excellent idea!!!!!

Thank you sir.

I will now regale you with a true drivers education story. Years back when I was living in Boise I taught the neighbors kid how to drive. Her parents were workaholics and didn't have time. They had bought her a POS minivan to drive. After a couple of lessons it became obvious she had no respect for the power of a vehicle or how dangerous it was. With her parents permission I took her down to the "Run What You Brung" night at the dragstrip. I strapped her into my Mustang and dumped a helmet on her head. She was scared ****less after the burnout and when the light turned green she started screaming. :roflmao2: I purposely got a little close to the wall (her side of the car :D ) and let the tail end hang out. For me it was 11 seconds of sheer bliss, for her it was an 11 second look into terror she couldn't comprehend. :eek: When she finally stopped screaming and crying I said "Now you know what it feels like for other people when you do something stupid while driving". I still keep in touch with her parents and she is a model driver. Very safe and courteous. Scared straight works. :thumb:

What are you advocating?

That bicycling advocates don't come across as juvenile morons.

Mandatory ride alongs with EMTs for new drivers wouldn't hurt. Maybe then they would understand and remember the consequences of hazardous driving.

I think you ae all way off base. I think the true cause of distracted driving is the wealth of efficiency experts telling people how they can best multi-task. True that modern cars enable the false feeling of being in control while multi-tasking, the real problem is people feeling like they need to do two or three things at once, and that they can do all of them well enough.

Distracted driving is nothing new. Long before the advent of cell phones and texting people were eating out of fast food bags, headbanging to metal bands while messing with the bass on their new amp/equalizer, combing their hair or putting on lipstick in the mirror, trying to read then refold that #*&%! map, looking up "pregnant rollerskate" on their cheatsheet of CB lingo, or attempting to disentangle the cassette that their boom box just ate.

Those of you with confused looks on your faces, go ask your mother!

How about a shock collar for driver's ed students? You make a mistake and zap. Keep making the same stupid mistakes and the voltage gets turned up. For the real hardcase's 5 minutes alone in a room with a traffic cop that just spent all night working a gruesome accident scene.


This could be fun, But add in to all cars a System that asks a simple question (give it like 20k worth of questions) and if you don't answer correctly with 30 Secs it assumes you are distracted and politely zaps you back to attention .

Oh we can dream :p

Distracted driving is nothing new. Long before the advent of cell phones and texting people were eating out of fast food bags, headbanging to metal bands while messing with the bass on their new amp/equalizer, combing their hair or putting on lipstick in the mirror, trying to read then refold that #*&%! map, looking up "pregnant rollerskate" on their cheatsheet of CB lingo, or attempting to disentangle the cassette that their boom box just ate.

Those of you with confused looks on your faces, go ask your mother!
Back in the '80s, I used to commute from Davis, CA to Sacramento. Eventually, they put a bike path in along the infamous causeway between east Davis and West Sacramento. Since it was on the north side of the freeway and I was heading east, I got a very clear view of what the morning car commuters were doing while they drove. About one in five were applying make-up, reading a book, reading paperwork, shaving (sometimes wet!) or eating.

Yeah, this problem has been longstanding.

Bring back double clutching! :D

JMO, I think the root cause of drivers inattention/multitasking is that they feel/the people who do it, feel that driving isn't as hard/demanding as most people make it out to be... After all "they" are more coordinated, smarter, and just basically BETTER at doing anything, than the average person... :rolleyes: So they can safely get away with it, where "other people" maybe can't and shouldn't be doing it in their opinion. :twitchy:

looking up "pregnant rollerskate" on their cheatsheet of CB lingo,

If anyone is wondering what a pregnant rollerskate is, here ya go:
279817
I had to look it up.:o

JMO, I think the root cause of drivers inattention/multitasking is that they feel/the people who do it, feel that driving isn't as hard/demanding as most people make it out to be... After all "they" are more coordinated, smarter, and just basically BETTER at doing anything, than the average person... :rolleyes: So they can safely get away with it, where "other people" maybe can't and shouldn't be doing it in their opinion. :twitchy:

Right. But, I have seen evidence that those same distracted drivers don't believe they can walk and talk on a phone at the same time.

A few years back I stayed in the (L)East Bay and took BART every day to The City for a chess camp my son was attending. While we waited for a ride home from the BART station, I watched scores of people get off the trains, walk to their cars, get in their cars, and start driving. As soon as the wheels were rolling, they pulled out their phones and initiated calls. It seems that they didn't trust themselves to walk and talk, but they sure thought they are capable of driving and yakking.

I always wonder about those who cannot drive w/o picking up the phone. What are they calling about that cannot be done before they leave? Reminds me of years ago when I could not start driving without a cigarette. Suppose cell phones are addictive? I see evidence like the way people carry them in their hands all the time.

Suppose cell phones are addictive? I see evidence like the way people carry them in their hands all the time.

Take one away from a 16-year-old sometime. They go from fighting you like a crack addict protecting his stash to rocking in the corner, sucking their thumbs and mumbling incoherently. "But how am I going to find out if Justin Beiber tweeted what he had for lunch?" Oh, the days when we used to average maybe 2 or 3 phone calls a day and they lasted maybe five minutes and were actually about something.

"What are you doing now?"
"Talking on the cell phone with you and updating my Facebook page."
"What are you posting on Facebook?"
"That I'm talking with you on the cell phone."

:rolleyes:

The only way to put an end to distracted driving is to make it against the law, and then to enforce the laws that are written. And the penalties have to be tough enough to force the public into compliance. Especially in the event of a serious injury, or a death.

Then there needs to be ad campaigns to inform people that they could face stiff fines or incarceration if they are involved in an accident that can be proven to be a distracted driving incident. These ad's have to be based on incidents that have happened, and then the victims/families have to be put on the air too. Just like some of the texting PSA's that have already been running.

They've been doing it with DUI's already. (Over the limit - Against the law) I wonder if this has actually decreased DUI's...


The idea of removing features from new cars is ludicrous. That will never happen, it's just a pipe dream. These comfort features, and the marketing of such, is exactly what gets people into the dealerships to buy a car in the first place.

IMHO, integration of smart technology into car radios and on board phone systems that truly become hands free is most likely what we will see become more common in the future.

The idea of removing features from new cars is ludicrous. That will never happen, it's just a pipe dream.
IMO, the ludicrous proposals and wacky pipe dreams that continually surface from some deluded bicycling "advocates" will poison any bicycling advocacy discussion if brought forth as serious proposals outside the wackadoodle club.

We all know distracted driving is an issue but what about distracted riding?

Lately I've been seeing cyclists riding while looking down and using their phones, for what I have no idea but I've been seeing an awful lot of it. I told my son if I catch him doing it he won't see his phone for a few months.

I think “we” Americans look at driving not as an engaging or interesting pursuit in itself, but a tedious method or getting from point A to B (I know I do). Add in long commutes and annoying traffic issues and people are going to try and distract themselves. I don’t know if there is really an answer other than what was already mentioned about stiff penalties for distracted driving.
I also believe things have changed for the worst. There are too many more things that can cause distracted driving. There’s a difference between fiddling your stereo verses looking at a phone to send a text message. The latest touch screen tech they are adding to cars is frightening. At least with a stereo knob you can have a tactile feel of the control that doesn’t necessarily involve having to look at it. I don’t see how you can use a touch screen without taking your eyes off the road to navigate the menus. Pure insanity.

We all know distracted driving is an issue but what about distracted riding?
What do you KNOW about "distracted riding"? What IS the issue?

IMO, the ludicrous proposals and wacky pipe dreams that continually surface from some deluded bicycling "advocates" will poison any bicycling advocacy discussion if brought forth as serious proposals outside the wackadoodle club.

Wow, it's about time... what took you so long?

For those of you that want a commercial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMYKXSPgaIw

IMO, the ludicrous proposals and wacky pipe dreams that continually surface from some deluded bicycling "advocates" will poison any bicycling advocacy discussion if brought forth as serious proposals outside the wackadoodle club.

We are a minority. Although we *may* see more of the obvious negatives that any form of distraction brings to the roadways, it will be upward swings in traffic fatalities that will eventually force change, or cause new tougher laws to be passed in an attempt to curb the rise in fatal accidents that are attributed to distraction.

I really don't think that a call to reduce technology is sound, nor would it last the light of day in the real world. However, IMHO, I would like to think that tougher laws, or maybe even bans on use of certain technology is likely. This would force companies that produce technology that is safer.

Thing is, we already have this technology at our disposal. I think it would be better, if there were a dock in your car that utilizes the sound system in your car to interface with your phone as if you were talking to a passenger sitting next to you.

For example; you could say "phone" then give a person to call or state a number, and the smart software does that for you and you never even have to look down from the road, or take your hands off the wheel. If you say "Text" then you speak it, a small heads up displays it on the lowest part of your windshield, then you say "send". It may not be the best way, but it's better than completely taking your focus off the road to text. The same thing should be done with GPS systems.

I see this kind of thing coming to pass quicker than trying to ban cell phones or GPS units.

[http://www.economist.com/node/21564214]: [T]his truck feels at once unstoppably powerful yet absurdly easy to drive. It is like a sort of remorseless sofa.

Steering wheel spikes, no dash padding, no airbags, no seatbelts or headrests, no collapsible steering columns...

How about a carrot as well as the very badly needed stick--a car that feels and drives like an MGBGT or an Alfa Alfetta from the 70's but with seat belts and airbags? A car that demands a driver's attention in a pleasant way.

For those of you that want a commercial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMYKXSPgaIw

I want a commercial that is NOT BANNED in the USA... where is that? Do such "distracted driving commercials" even exist in the USA?

Or are the automobile and the cell phone lobbies just too strong here in the US? After all, it's always about the bottom line... and gee what is one more dead person compared to the profits of cell phones and automobiles?

Oddly I hear "safe boating" commercials all the time on local radio stations... I don't believe I have heard (or seen) a safe driving ad since the days of "buckle up for safety, buckle up... "

That's pretty graphic and makes you think. But the general public doesn't like this kind of shock-commercials. It's too bad this kind of thing happens all too often though.

IMHO, it's just as good to speak of tragedy in the past-tense and the implications of the behavior. I don't know if displaying gory details is really a good way to get the point across. I think it makes people look more at the gory intent of the producers, and may even be detrimental to the desired point the PSA is trying to make.

I want a commercial that is NOT BANNED in the USA... where is that? Do such "distracted driving commercials" even exist in the USA?

Or are the automobile and the cell phone lobbies just too strong here in the US? After all, it's always about the bottom line... and gee what is one more dead person compared to the profits of cell phones and automobiles?

Oddly I hear "safe boating" commercials all the time on local radio stations... I don't believe I have heard (or seen) a safe driving ad since the days of "buckle up for safety, buckle up... "

When the cell phone while driving ban was initiated here in Nova Scotia (2004 me thinks), there was a group of businesses and buisness people that were claiming it would "destroy the economy."

How about a tiered system? When you first get your license it's only good for say 90 horsepower. Can't have a car over 90 horsepower. Then as you take classes, log hours, don't accrue points/fines and generally show civilized driving behavior you get to move up in stages. I think Britain has something like this for motorcycles to keep 16 year old studs off liter bikes.

I definitely see better driving from manual transmission drivers. I think needing two hands to shift and steer and two feet to work the pedals engages your brain more and you focus more on the road.

How about a tiered system? When you first get your license it's only good for say 90 horsepower. Can't have a car over 90 horsepower. Then as you take classes, log hours, don't accrue points/fines and generally show civilized driving behavior you get to move up in stages. I think Britain has something like this for motorcycles to keep 16 year old studs off liter bikes.

Not too bad of an idea.

There have been a few accidents that have left me scratching my head. I don't for the life of me understand why teenagers are driving cars like,
GT Mustang, a 350Z, an Impala SS, and Range Rover.

I'm sorry, but I'm of the belief that driving in of itself is dangerous. Throw in excessive horsepower, I think for an unseasoned driver it's a recipe for tragedy.

When the cell phone while driving ban was initiated here in Nova Scotia (2004 me thinks), there was a group of businesses and buisness people that were claiming it would "destroy the economy."

Wow, makes me wonder how the economy fared back before cell phones....

Horsepower does play a factor, the only close call I ever had (on the street, track is a whole nother animal) was when I was testing out a new mod on my (barely) street legal drag car. I was out cruising and just generally shaking things down when I got caught in an unexpected rain shower. Between the power, the drag slicks, and the rain I couldn't get going from a stop very well. I was maybe 3 miles from home when the car started to slide all over the road and I nearly went into oncoming traffic. Rather than push the situation I pulled into the next McDonald's and waited out the rain shower. A less mature driver might have pushed those last 3 miles and caused a very bad accident. Throwing a 16 year old behind the wheel of such a car would have been lunacy. I live near a university and there are some very, very, fine machines in the student parking lot. I wonder if the parents ever ponder that it may have been safer to send the kiddo to college in a Chevy Sonic rather than a Chevy Camaro. Or perhaps that a 7 to 9 passenger Yukon XL might be a bad choice because there will be more hooligan friends in the car to cause distraction.

I'm proud to say that I've only had one ticket despite all the fast cars I drove. The ticket I did get was for no seat belt. I tried explaining to the officer that Henry Ford didn't install seat belts in cars in 1961. He didn't believe me, but the judge did.