Advocacy & Safety - My greatest danger is from ............

I was riding to work earlier than normal on Friday. I was going up a slight hill and keeping to the correct side of the bicycle path (path is about 6-8 ft wide and I was no more than 1 ft from my side).

A gang of roadies came up fast from behind and began passing whilst in their pack mode (2-3 abreast). This meant that the ones closest to me were way too close to me. I started to wobble and as one guy passed we were within feeler gauge of each other. He got a fright and said "oh oh oh #@$%". When they had passed me I thought a comment was appropriate so I yelled out loud "GET OVER".

One of the gang turned around and looked and gave me this hand expression we have in Australia that says "What are you going on about?" I glared at him. None of them wanted to get left behind so they pedaled away in gang format still.

After a number of not dissimilar incidents to this I am now firmly of the view that the greatest danger to me is from other cyclists!! On my way home on Friday a friendly guy tried to ride beside me and wanted to even shake hands. Whilst I wasn't terse with him I spelled it out that I wanted none of this. What do you expect those roadies were thinking? Did they think I would just run off the path into the bush for them?

Locally, cyclists are not even close to my greatest danger, matter of fact, a 200+ lb cyclist and bike has never really been a danger to me. If you don't use a mirror, maybe getting one is in order.

I was riding to work earlier than normal on Friday. I was going up a slight hill and keeping to the correct side of the bicycle path (path is about 6-8 ft wide and I was no more than 1 ft from my side).

A gang of roadies came up fast from behind and began passing whilst in their pack mode (2-3 abreast). This meant that the ones closest to me were way too close to me. I started to wobble and as one guy passed we were within feeler gauge of each other. He got a fright and said "oh oh oh #@$%". When they had passed me I thought a comment was appropriate so I yelled out loud "GET OVER".

One of the gang turned around and looked and gave me this hand expression we have in Australia that says "What are you going on about?" I glared at him. None of them wanted to get left behind so they pedaled away in gang format still.

After a number of not dissimilar incidents to this I am now firmly of the view that the greatest danger to me is from other cyclists!! On my way home on Friday a friendly guy tried to ride beside me and wanted to even shake hands. Whilst I wasn't terse with him I spelled it out that I wanted none of this. What do you expect those roadies were thinking? Did they think I would just run off the path into the bush for them?

I would be more specific than just saying 'roadies'. Because that means all roadies.

depending on how confident you are in your bike handling, someone gave me a pretty good suggestion for this situation. Put a hand on their jersey and give a firm but slow push away from you. Or chop their handlebars, your choice

Greatest danger is yourself -- majority of bicycle crashes involve only the cyclist.

Greatest danger is yourself -- majority of bicycle crashes involve only the cyclist.

And how many of those said crashes lead to nothing more than skinned knees?

And how many of those said crashes lead to nothing more than skinned knees?

Most of them. But then again, half of all cycling accidents involving other vehicles are the cyclist's fault, too.

Greatest danger is yourself. Greatest way to stay out of danger is riding experience. Riding is safe. Even though you might be the greatest danger to yourself, you're generally a safe rider, not likely to crash in the first place.

I too find myself the greatest cycling danger and take that as good news because I can control my own behavior.

Stupidity

In all my years and miles of cycling... I have NEVER managed to put myself into a hospital. Seems it takes others to do that.

They probably expected you to be able to ride in a straight line. Improving your bike handling skills will keep you safe in this, and many other situations.

Of course, they should not have passed so close nor without warning.

I will agree, a cyclist's greatest danger CAN BE themselves. But an equally great danger is the 'errant traveler' that isn't the cyclist. From a jaywalking pedestrian, or a motorcyclist who thinks they can easily get by within the same lane at high speed. To a motorist, who could care less about a cyclist's right to be on the road, and refuses to share the road with a cyclist.

I was riding to work earlier than normal on Friday. I was going up a slight hill and keeping to the correct side of the bicycle path (path is about 6-8 ft wide and I was no more than 1 ft from my side).

A gang of roadies came up fast from behind and began passing whilst in their pack mode (2-3 abreast). This meant that the ones closest to me were way too close to me. I started to wobble and as one guy passed we were within feeler gauge of each other. He got a fright and said "oh oh oh #@$%". When they had passed me I thought a comment was appropriate so I yelled out loud "GET OVER".

One of the gang turned around and looked and gave me this hand expression we have in Australia that says "What are you going on about?" I glared at him. None of them wanted to get left behind so they pedaled away in gang format still.

After a number of not dissimilar incidents to this I am now firmly of the view that the greatest danger to me is from other cyclists!! On my way home on Friday a friendly guy tried to ride beside me and wanted to even shake hands. Whilst I wasn't terse with him I spelled it out that I wanted none of this. What do you expect those roadies were thinking? Did they think I would just run off the path into the bush for them?

1. Get a rear view mirror.

2. When you see a peleton approaching from the rear, weave randomly. They will scatter around you. Once they get up to you, follow a predictable, straight line.


I'm increasingly a fan of being unpredictable. People leave you lots of space, both other cyclists and motorists.

I agree with weaving a little, but it's not always possible to tell that cyclists are overtaking you. Cue the mirror advocates

I understand the OP's point but I wouldn't go so far as to say other cyclists are "my greatest danger". Denver has a large network of MUP's and, like any multi-use pathway, you see all sorts of skill levels and judgment calls. Invariably, some are less skilled than others and some are prone to make poor judgments. I don't have a problem passing others or being passed but there are some riders who simply refuse to slow down for anything. This includes high traffic areas where pedestrians, skaters, kids and dogs may be present. Also, our paths tend to follow rivers so we have many blind corners leading to or exiting from underpasses. It doesn't happen often, but every now and then a rider moving too fast for his/her skill level will take one of these turns too wide or try to pass a slower bike when they obviously cannot see more than a few feet in front of them. I've been sent to the weeds once or twice when an oncoming rider was out of his/her lane for whatever reason and, I have to say, I really don't like it. I've also seen some pretty serious crashes but, fortunately, haven't been involved in any.

Every group has its share of bad judgment or stupidity. I'll take a dumb cyclist over a road-raged Hummer any day though.

Greatest danger is yourself -- majority of bicycle crashes involve only the cyclist.

I was thinking the same.

I vaguely remember my Scuba class (45 years ago). It is the same for Scuba, the greatest danger is yourself.

They probably expected you to be able to ride in a straight line. Improving your bike handling skills will keep you safe in this, and many other situations.

Of course, they should not have passed so close nor without warning.

The passer has the responsibility to make a safe pass. A hybrid at 12 mph will wobble a bit. It's not skill. It's physics.

The passer has the responsibility to make a safe pass. A hybrid at 12 mph will wobble a bit. It's not skill. It's physics.

:lol:

They probably expected you to be able to ride in a straight line. Improving your bike handling skills will keep you safe in this, and many other situations.

I hope that is your response when a cyclists complains about motorists passing too closely... After all you wouldn't want to be accused of being a hypocrite would you?

I don't believe I have seen a single bicycle race without at least one crash, presumably caused by cyclists getting too close who should be able to 'ride in a straight line'...:bang:

I hope that is your response when a cyclists complains about motorists passing too closely... After all you wouldn't want to be accused of being a hypocrite would you?

I don't believe I have seen a single bicycle race without at least one crash, presumably caused by cyclists getting too close who should be able to 'ride in a straight line'...:bang:

The fact that you equate a three ton car passing you too close to a 20lb bicycle, and a bit of a close pass on a MUP to a road race is...let's just say, 'instructional' as to your state of mind.

The fact that you equate a three ton car passing you too close to a 20lb bicycle, and a bit of a close pass on a MUP to a road race is...let's just say, 'instructional' as to your state of mind.

We recently had a death of a cyclist caused by a 20 lb bicycle passing (or riding) too closely to another 20 lb bicycle... So care to explain how the result can be any worse then that when passed to closely by a car? I suggest that you get over your prejudices. The situation the OP described is just as unacceptable as being passed closely by a car, and like a car the responsibility is solely that of the operator of the vehicle doing the passing...

My greatest danger - as in most severe - is the surface road hazard remaining on a short stretch of the 4-lane road that I take to work. It's an abrupt 3-inch drop from the road surface to the gutter, no shoulder narrow lanes with high speed traffic. If you fall off and then hit that ledge you're going down.

My greatest danger as in most likely to cause an injury greater than road rash, are the mup cyclists who swing wide around blind turns (into me, head-on from the other direction), when they're either passing someone or going faster than their cornering skills would dictate.

We recently had a death of a cyclist caused by a 20 lb bicycle passing (or riding) too closely to another 20 lb bicycle... So care to explain how the result can be any worse then that when passed to closely by a car? I suggest that you get over your prejudices. The situation the OP described is just as unacceptable as being passed closely by a car, and like a car the responsibility is solely that of the operator of the vehicle doing the passing...

I assume you don't honestly believe that a bike has similar capability to create mayhem as a car, and surely you don't believe that a cyclist has the same responsibilites as that of a car driver in this area. Also, solely the responsibility of the vehicle doing the passing? I suggest you don't try that defense should you find yourself in court explaining why you suddenly veered your car left as a car overtook you.

You must just be trying to start an argument here, predicated on that frankly hilarious idea that you find the 'ability to ride in a straight line' a completely unacceptable requirement.

Possibly you just have too much time on your hands...like me, waiting for this machine to finish its cycle.

when this same thing happened to me recently, the people doing the passing had absolutely no idea how we were riding. I ride with a couple of people that will occasionally make a sketchy move when they aren't being passed by a car. I don't ride inches away from them, and I don't think it's really a safety requirement that you ride a straight line to the degree that it is in a race. The close pass the other cyclists made was entirely unnecessary and could easily have ended up with us in a pile with multiple broken bones or worse on a busy road. I used to be a fast, arrogant roadie, but I have always valued my own (and other's) health enough not to pass someone within inches if they didn't know that was a possibility. In fact, I'm pretty sure the crowd I used to race with would have put some people in the ditch as a preventative example for the rest of the club. As it was, I chased them down and blew up their paceline (passing safely first, mind you)

... A&S trolls.

while cyclists can certainly cause fatal injuries, I wish that they were my biggest safety concern. Even if I stuck to the few mups we have around here, there are still intersections. In fact, the closest I have gotten to being a hood ornament recently is while I was crossing a street in a crosswalk on the mup and someone almost broadsided me. Of course, our mups are specially designed in a way that increases the danger to cyclists as much as possible, they curve away from the intersection so motorists are already up to speed by the time they cross the crosswalks

Careless cyclists. Especially group rides sporting LBS colors and logos.

I learned from experience that a good practice is to give a customary "on your left" as I come to pass people. As I was riding through a local area here I happened on a group of three cyclists riding the same route I was.

So I hung back for a couple minutes and realized these guys were not really pushing too hard. So I called "On your left" to these guys to let them know I was coming around. I bet I gave them at least 3 or 4 feet as I made my way around. I called on your left to let the first guy know I was coming as I began to pass the second guy, So number 2 decides that I must have said move to your left, because he moved to his left and swept my front wheel taking me down as I was accelerating.

It didn't hurt me too bad, I skinned my leg and the side of my wrist (incidentally which was sore for about a week...) It messed up one of my skewers and my rear derailleur, my right pedal and my bar tape.

The worst part was they all kept right on going. Didn't even bother to stop to see if I had been hurt or not. I know the guy that swept my wheel, and the guy that were behind me knew what had happened.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought this was a pretty crappy thing to do to someone. Sure I wasn't hurt and I could still ride the bike home. I would have stopped and at least asked if I was alright.

So fast forward to last Saturday...I'm on my way to jam with some friends of mine, and I was coming up to the same road where this happened. I turn on my signal to make a left turn, and here comes the Saturday morning peloton. This girl was leading the group, and she bolts right out in front of me, causing me to slam on my brakes. There was probably 10-15 riders in the group. I would say about 2/3rd's of the group didn't bolt along with her.

So she waves at me (knowing I'm a cyclist because of my bike rack) as if to say thanks. SO I shook my finger at her and mouthed to her you know better...

So, I ask...Do you think I should call the bike shop whose jerseys they were all wearing and let the owner know about this? I'm sorry, but a LBS sponsored ride should not be blowing across Lawerenceville-Suwanee road at the Brogdan intersection. Very dangerous for those of you that know the area. Seems to me that an organized bike ride that everyone who is riding has the shop jerseys on is actually putting the shop in a pickle. What if someone who isn't the leader gets hit because of the stupidity demonstrated on the ride?

There are 3 distinct cycling clubs in my area. I'm a member of one of them. I have a club kit as well even though I don't ride with them nor do I even wear the fancy jersey very often either. I have seen a lot of this bad behavior coming from people in these clubs. Running stop signs, redlights, bolting across busy streets etc.

I don't care to be affiliated with groups of riders who take too many risks. If your going to do stupid things, it may be a good idea to leave the fancy jersey at the shop.

Is it bad if me to think in this manner?

I'm finding that when riding in pace lines, we tend to blow more red lights than when I'm riding alone. All it takes when we hit a yellow is for one guy to shout rolling and we're committed. The people in front don't want to suddenly stop for fear of causing a crash, and the people in the back don't want to get dropped. It's never caused a problem, but I'm not saying it's right.

I assume you don't honestly believe that a bike has similar capability to create mayhem as a car, and surely you don't believe that a cyclist has the same responsibilites as that of a car driver in this area. Also, solely the responsibility of the vehicle doing the passing? I suggest you don't try that defense should you find yourself in court explaining why you suddenly veered your car left as a car overtook you.

You must just be trying to start an argument here, predicated on that frankly hilarious idea that you find the 'ability to ride in a straight line' a completely unacceptable requirement.

Possibly you just have too much time on your hands...like me, waiting for this machine to finish its cycle.

I provided you an example of one cyclist causing the death of another cyclist... How can a car cause any more harm than the death of the cyclist? And at least in the US, cyclists have the same rights and RESPONSIBILITIES as motorists; hence, in the OP's situation the 'roadies' were the only ones at fault for unsafe passing.

As to 'veering' movement side-to-side of even several feet is actually fairly common among vehicles in my area... We get pretty strong winds. It is normal for an operator to 'weave' slightly, as long as they stay in their lane; however, none of that matters since it is ALWAYS the responsibility of the passer to do so safely...

I tend to ride pretty quickly relative to some of the other commuters that I pass (not that I'm that fast, but I have a short commute and do it on a road bike). I pick a safe time to pass, give plenty of room, but I never announce myself. It seems that just gets a head turn which usually coincides with drifting to the left. If you make the pass quick, you're by them quickly before they can react.

I think what happened to the OP may be because the "roadies" were comfortable riding very close to each other and didn't feel they were passing that close. Not saying it's right, but it's easy to forget that not everyone is comfortable riding in close proximity.

I agree reshp1 I think there is a clear danger in announcing your presence. I also think there are people out there who don't know what "On Your Left" really means. Even on our local path, The Silver Comet Trail, you really have to be careful. I think some people think "On Your Left" equals to them "Oh he must want me to move to my left"

Can't tell you how many times I've had that happen to me.

Dave not here, I know what you mean about not stopping in pace lines. And out in rural areas, where there is light traffic, then I would say it's not as bad. But to start from a stop where everyone is already at a stop, and just bolt across traffic because you see someone with a bike rack on their car...

Riding is great fun, and training is even better. I love to ride hard, but IMHO, I really think you have to use common sense, no matter how experienced you are. (Speaking of the dimwit who bolted out in front of me..) that was really bizzaro.

I think what happened to the OP may be because the "roadies" were comfortable riding very close to each other and didn't feel they were passing that close. Not saying it's right, but it's easy to forget that not everyone is comfortable riding in close proximity.

I think the other mistake the roadies might make is to not realize that my "roadie" has flat bars which are a good 3 inches wider each side than their droppies.

I agree reshp1 I think there is a clear danger in announcing your presence. I also think there are people out there who don't know what "On Your Left" really means. Even on our local path, The Silver Comet Trail, you really have to be careful. I think some people think "On Your Left" equals to them "Oh he must want me to move to my left"

I generally don't speak up unless it's required to stop someone who is drifting over, or if there is a tight squeeze. Otherwise, I try to pass with same clearance I would want a motorist to give - 3 feet or more. Same thing with the "car back" thing - unless I see an imminent collision brewing, I figure people don't need the announcements.

Here's a rule that I live by: No matter how smart or stupid you might be, there are a lot of people running around who are dumber than you are.

The biggest threat to my personal safety is invariably that I momentarily forget this rule and presume that I and the people around me know what we're doing. Every near miss that I've experienced this year can be attributed to this phenomenon, whether it involves people on bikes, people in cars, livestock, pedestrians, or my own failure to observe basic safety rules for one reason or another.

If, for example, I see an oncoming car signaling a left turn, I know I have the right-of-way but I also know that a fairly large percentage of those drivers either don't know this, disagree, or think they can perform their turn before I hit the intersection.

I've done about 1,000 miles on rail-trails this year and I've seen a lot of troubling things. People love to pick on the roadies, but as a group they're no better or worse than any other, just different. Their frequent presumption that they have superior rights to the trail because they have cooler outfits and more expensive bikes isn't inherently more dangerous than the rollerbladers insisting on using the wrong side of the trail, the old people riding side-by-side five feet apart, or the clueless little kids on Batman bikes with training wheels riding 100 yards behind their parents. Had I presumed that they all possessed common sense and both knew and observed basic rules of etiquette, I'd be in a body cast.

Defensive biking doesn't differ much from defensive driving, but it's more intense and the stakes are a little higher. I dream of a world where everyone has a brain and cyclists actually enjoy the rights they're supposed to have, I just don't live there.

I think people are more annoyed by roadies because they think the roadies should know better. It's easy to forget there are a lot of people in good shape that can go fast but have not ridden that much. All it takes to look like a roadie is a credit card.

I think people are more annoyed by roadies because they think the roadies should know better. It's easy to forget there are a lot of people in good shape that can go fast but have not ridden that much. All it takes to look like a roadie is a credit card.

Not my credit card, Doctor. These are tough times.

I think people are more annoyed by roadies because they think the roadies should know better. It's easy to forget there are a lot of people in good shape that can go fast but have not ridden that much. All it takes to look like a roadie is a credit card.

Of course it could just be because those who ride in pace lines simply behave poorly, regardless of what they are called... Like the OP, I routinely have unsafe encounters caused by those riding in pace lines; however, I only rarely have unsafe encounters with single riders, even those in full kit...

1. Drunk Drivers
2. Salmon
3. Groups of pedestrians spanning an entire MUP.

My answer would be:

...idiots

Seriously, and this is a serious answer to the OP.

He was right, and as has been mentioned already, it is the responsibility of the party doing the over-taking to make a safe manoeuvre.

In the interests of road safety it is accepted that cyclists are unpredictable and unstable. This means that anyone overtaking a cyclist can reasonable expect them to wobble or move without signalling - simply the nature of the beast. Therefore you should give a cyclist a wide berth (3-4 feet) and if you cannot, you do not overtake.

Even a skilled rider will be moving about a bit so the argument about lack of skill is rubbish (and if the OP were wobbling that much, the passing riders would have instinctively given more space). There is also the factor of personal space - if everyone you passed on the street brushed past you, you would feel imposed upon and it is no different on the road. You need a certain amount of personal space on the road to feel comfortable (just think about when someone tail-gates you).

So quite simply the group of cyclists passing the OP were in the wrong. My advice to the OP would be to shout out nice and early and very loud, and to keep going straight, but slow down if they are too close.

... keep going straight, but slow down if they are too close.

there you go. It's not so hard, really.

I generally don't speak up unless it's required to stop someone who is drifting over, or if there is a tight squeeze. Otherwise, I try to pass with same clearance I would want a motorist to give - 3 feet or more. Same thing with the "car back" thing - unless I see an imminent collision brewing, I figure people don't need the announcements.

Agreed. That seems to be the best thing. Announcing your passing is probably asking for trouble.

However when ever I'm in a pace line, provided everyone knows what they are doing..for the most part seems to flow quite well.

If I see pedestrians coming up, I usually call out way before I get there just to alert them I'm coming. This makes most people look back and see you.