Mountain Biking - Anything special about Specialized frames?

Hi, I am comparing mtn. bikes in the $300-800 range and notice that Specialized bikes look different than those from the other big makers. Specifically, the top and down tubes on the Specialized bikes now have boxed cross-sections and also start bigger at the headset and get smaller at the seat tube. An example is
http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/2005/bikes/05Rockhopper_Yellow_l.jpg

Is there any benefit to this design or is it just a gimmick?

Thanks

Strength....

HARO's have had a similar design as well....

http://www.harobikes.com/2005/mtb/bikes/large/werx_7.jpg

Strength....

HARO's have had a similar design as well....

I imagine Specialized would justify that as the reason but shouldn't round tubes be stronger per weight and size?

My HARO doesn't have a round nor boxed toptube.... I suppose that's up to the designer's.

Bottom line is that you won't have anything to worry about with a Specialized bike frame (nor anyother big company brand IMO), although a friend of mine cracked his Santa Cruz Blurr frame near the rear shock about 3 weeks ago. That's what they offer warranties for, Dude....

Go 4 it!

BTW, I don't have an agenda against Specialized. In fact, I like that their Hardrock and Rockhopper are different from the other frames in the low-end segment - it's a good differientiator from all the clones. Just wanted to make sure this difference is an added value, not merely a non-functional design to get attention.

"non-functional design to get attention"

Unfortunately that happens alot nowadays....

Wow, Haro sure have stepped up this year.

Hi, I am comparing mtn. bikes in the $300-800 range and notice that Specialized bikes look different than those from the other big makers. Specifically, the top and down tubes on the Specialized bikes now have boxed cross-sections and also start bigger at the headset and get smaller at the seat tube. An example is
[IMG removed]
Is there any benefit to this design or is it just a gimmick?

Thanks
Here's a visual aide I cooked up. Bear in mind that the black bike is steel, but the used to do the same sort of thing with Aluminum all be it that the tubes were a bit fatter.
http://img175.exs.cx/img175/9083/Headtubewelds.jpg

Here's a visual aide I cooked up. Bear in mind that the black bike is steel, but the used to do the same sort of thing with Aluminum all be it that the tubes were a bit fatter.


Raiyn, it seems that already on most of the frames now, the top and bottom tubes touch and are welded together in addition to being welded to the head tube, though perhaps not to the same degree as the Specialized frames.

OK, I know Specialized bikes have a lifetime guarantee against defects, like most other big name brands, so I'm sure their frames are tough enough. But does this new design make them lighter than frames in comparable prices. For instance, the Hardrock's frame isn't listed as being butted but many of its competitors' frames are butted. So does this new design make the Hardrock's frame as light as a butted frame?

Raiyn, it seems that already on most of the frames now, the top and bottom tubes touch and are welded together in addition to being welded to the head tube, though perhaps not to the same degree as the Specialized frames.

OK, I know Specialized bikes have a lifetime guarantee against defects, like most other big name brands, so I'm sure their frames are tough enough. But does this new design make them lighter than frames in comparable prices. For instance, the Hardrock's frame isn't listed as being butted but many of its competitors' frames are butted. So does this new design make the Hardrock's frame as light as a butted frame?
The Yellow Rockhopper frame that you showed IS butted. The weight penalty on the Hardrock won't be much, and at this price point you're looking more at strength - not weight.

The Yellow Rockhopper frame that you showed IS butted.

I know the Rockhopper is butted. That's why I specified the Hardrock was not butted. And while it's good and all that I'm paying for "strength" at this price point, Specialized's Hardrock's competition nevertheless uses butted frames, hence the question on what does Specialized's frames offers.

Come on, doesn't any of Specialized's employees lurk in this popular cycling forum? Here's your chance to espouse, anonymously if desired, how great your company's frames are. I really want to know.

Wow, Haro sure have stepped up this year.

In my opinion, they are just throwing fancy new parts on old technology. Single Pivot frames? Thats old school but if they claim it works...i guess it does.

AusTai,

In reality, with the small market this offers, why should they bother. For the most part specialized, especially in the range you are looking at, offer value. There isn't anything really special about the frames (in reality, butted is as common as aluminum, its more or less a standard for good mid range frames).

You asked the benefit. Pure strength. It is stronger than most cheap frames. What more do you want. A whole essay on the design and welds of frames and their purpose compared to what?...For the price point the hardrock is built stronger than MOST in that pricepoint.

Personally, it reads like you are just looking for things wrong with specialized, not looking for answers. And really, look around a touch closer. Most companies have comparible frames with that type of weld, it is NOT a 'specialized' thing. Norco, Kona etc...



In my opinion, they are just throwing fancy new parts on old technology. Single Pivot frames? Thats old school but if they claim it works...i guess it does.


As long as they keep the price down...its worth it. The minute I see those bikes jump in price to be equal to a builit, they will once again become a joke.

Funny Mindbog....you do know that Konas are a faux bar single pivot right? Funny how old technology is so bad...thats why Steve Peat doesnt win on a SP or anything.

I have a Hardrock Pro Disc and I looked around at a few other brands... didn't really find anything quite as well-equipped for the money I spent. So yes, I agree that Specialized offers value at this price point and that they're trying to give the image of strength by doing the welds the way they do.

...
You asked the benefit. Pure strength. It is stronger than most cheap frames. What more do you want. A whole essay on the design and welds of frames and their purpose compared to what?...For the price point the hardrock is built stronger than MOST in that pricepoint.
I haven't kept up with the market in a while but I was under the impression that all bikes are pretty built strong, strong enough for just about anyone, since companies don't want to be replacing frames all the time. What you get with more expensive frames is the strength AND light weight, i.e. extra butting and shaping to remove weight where it's not needed. So saying a frame is more strong than another doesn't mean much unless Specialized's competition's frames are always breaking.




Personally, it reads like you are just looking for things wrong with specialized, not looking for answers. And really, look around a touch closer. Most companies have comparible frames with that type of weld, it is NOT a 'specialized' thing. Norco, Kona etc...
Actually, I'm looking for things right with Specialized frames but I'm frustrated by the vague answers so far, which isn't yours or anyone's fault really since Specialized hasn't done a gone job on their web site explaining why their frames are special, beyond the looks. I actually like the different look of their frames but the left brain in me wants to be sure I'm not buying into marketing only.

The frame is made like that for 2 reasons...

Asthetically pleasing to most people (including me who owns one)

And the larger area of the headtube, top tube and down tube welded together makes it much stronger, this design isnt uncommon, and they must be doing something right, because on most aluminium frames this technique is being brought more and more into practise.

Your not gonna get a better bike for the money..

I haven't kept up with the market in a while but I was under the impression that all bikes are pretty built strong, strong enough for just about anyone, since companies don't want to be replacing frames all the time. What you get with more expensive frames is the strength AND light weight, i.e. extra butting and shaping to remove weight where it's not needed. So saying a frame is more strong than another doesn't mean much unless Specialized's competition's frames are always breaking.


Ahhh detailed questions will get a semi detailed answer.

The reason for the new butted look (since like 2001) isbecause of a bad habit of headtubes being ripped off of bikes. On hardrocks etc kids were using them with the new fangled 4 and 5 in forks which was puttng to much pressure on the headtube area. That butting on almost all bikes today has saved many a dead rider :) You will find that butting is on aluminum frames built for urban/freeride or downhill. Otherwise the butting is really pointless as the pressure of an 80mm xc fork doing xc things, is far less.

I definately don't think the hardrock is the strongest thing out there. For newbie riders getting into drops and jumps it is adequate. But it isn't the cats meow :)

Hope that helps, you just have to remember it isn't made for pure xc. Its a littler stronger and heavier for a slightly different discipline. The p series takes that strenght/ weight ratio one step further.

...
The reason for the new butted look (since like 2001) isbecause of a bad habit of headtubes being ripped off of bikes. On hardrocks etc kids were using them with the new fangled 4 and 5 in forks which was puttng to much pressure on the headtube area. That butting on almost all bikes today has saved many a dead rider :) You will find that butting is on aluminum frames built for urban/freeride or downhill. Otherwise the butting is really pointless as the pressure of an 80mm xc fork doing xc things, is far less.

I definately don't think the hardrock is the strongest thing out there. For newbie riders getting into drops and jumps it is adequate. But it isn't the cats meow :)

Hope that helps, you just have to remember it isn't made for pure xc. Its a littler stronger and heavier for a slightly different discipline. The p series takes that strenght/ weight ratio one step further.


...
And the larger area of the headtube, top tube and down tube welded together makes it much stronger, this design isnt uncommon, and they must be doing something right, because on most aluminium frames this technique is being brought more and more into practise.


Ahhh... that explains a lot. So it isn't a marketing thing (not completely anyway), after all. Thanks for clearing that up!

Actually....you could find a much better bike for the money if you actually looked. All the people on here have the specialized rules all aspect on their mind.

Very true. I don't think the hardrock is the endall bike in that range. Lots of companies make similar style bikes for similar pricing.

Funny Mindbog....you do know that Konas are a faux bar single pivot right? Funny how old technology is so bad...thats why Steve Peat doesnt win on a SP or anything.

I never said that the Single Pivots were bad, but I think that riders would benfit from the other technologies. Ive ridden a Haro Extreme with the single pivot and definetly enjoy the 4 bar linkage over it. Definelty a smoother ride over it.

And the bike has nothing to do with the riders ability. I know plently of people that can smoke me riding a deparment store bike.

true 4-bars are nice.....but the Kona is a faux bar(fake four bar) with qualities of a single pivot. I do enjoy riding bighits and other horstlink bikes, and they respond pretty well....but a single pivot with a floater is very similar, and saves weight.

So the kona faux 4 bar = decent?

true 4-bars are nice.....but the Kona is a faux bar(fake four bar) with qualities of a single pivot. I do enjoy riding bighits and other horstlink bikes, and they respond pretty well....but a single pivot with a floater is very similar, and saves weight.
Single Pivot, didn't some guy place first who rode this design?? It was thrown up in another gread.

Just about every dhiller for the past few years. Its light, simple, laterally stiff...everything you need for dh racing (steve peat might be who you are thinking of)

I'll put my 2 cents in here, I have a Hardrock and like it. I have a Haro X2 single pivot and I like it. SP is just a simple system unlike say, a Demo. I have ridden a Demo and that flippin' thing is awsome. For the kind of riding I do the SP is fine, no need for me to pay more $$. I like all cool bikes not just one brand.

Just about every dhiller for the past few years. Its light, simple, laterally stiff...everything you need for dh racing (steve peat might be who you are thinking of)
Thanks. That is who I'm thinking of...do they show downhill stuff on TV? If so when...only thing to do with bike I've ever seen on TV is like the tour de france or w/e

In canada they do. :D