Commuting - Road Bike Envy

Ok - I've suffered from road bike envy before, but it's really bad this time.

My co-worker and I biked home the other night together. He has an arsenal of 3 bikes - two hybrids, and road bike (brand new Specialized Allez). When he's riding his hybrids, I can easily pass him and put some distance between us. However, last night he was on his road bike, and it felt like I was riding with Lance Armstrong.

Depending on which path I take, my average speed will run anywhere between 18-22mph on flat(ish) surfaces. When I rode in front, that's about what I averaged, however, when he rode in front - the average speed went up to like 25+mph. The only reason I could keep up was because I was drafting him like crazy. What gives !??!?

I ride a 2011 Sirrus Elite - with tires upgraded from 700x28's to 700x26's, and different pedals which has helped my overall average speed and top speed tremendously. He's running 700x23's and general road bike geometry.

Do I just need to man up and ride harder? Or is it time to buy a road bike and spandex just to keep up with Lance?

One last thought - I always love annihilating roadies on the commute in to work. Especially the ones that are all superman'd/spandex'd out with full carbon everything. I generally ride in an old sweatshirt/gym shorts/big backpack. By switching gears and going all road - is that going start sucking the fun out of commuting - because it will be an all out race?

All input appreciated.

By switching gears and going all road - is that going start sucking the fun out of commuting - because it will be an all out race?


Being on a bike is always fun for me, no matter which bike I use.

you should turn pro.

you should turn pro.

Bad idea, everybody will think he's doped

N+1 is always recommended .. new bike shopping is fun!

you should turn pro.

Yeah right. Those average speeds were primarily for flat surfaces - or slight inclines. Declines, we hauled though.

Upgrading tires (from 28's to 26's) took my top speed (downhill) from 34.8mph to 38.34. "Lance" on his road bike pulled 40.9mph on the same downhill that I max out at 38.34mph.

Plus the commute is no longer than 10.5 miles one way. I can afford to go all out for that short of a distance.

Bad idea, everybody will think he's doped

There's one guy on the bike trail who rides a beater road bike form the 80's, with toe straps. His calves are the size of watermelons and he rides by me almost daily like I'm standing still. It's insane - I don't even try keeping up with him... Which is part of the reason I want to refrain from upgrading. Ultimately, it's the rider, not the bike - responsible for performance. I'd hate to be a spandex'd/superman/logo'd out rider, riding a road bike with 1,000,000,000 different logo's on it - when some dude could come along and pass me on a fixie. lol.

there's always someone faster. if you buy your bikes with that frame of mind, we should all be commuting on beach cruisers.

you should turn pro.

Funny! Good one!

I'd hate to be a spandex'd/superman/logo'd out rider, riding a road bike with 1,000,000,000 different logo's on it - when some dude could come along and pass me on a fixie. lol.

I know what you mean, that's how I felt until this last summer when I finally tried the full kit. I look ridiculus at 215 lbs on my road bike, averaging speeds 20-22 mph (30-35 km/h). But I discovered that it's called cycling short and cycling shirt for a reason: it's a lot more comfortable on a bike than regular clothing. So I stopped worrying about what others think about my appearance and I'm having more fun on my bike.

Tight shorts make one faster.

Ok - I've suffered from road bike envy before, but it's really bad this time.

My co-worker and I biked home the other night together. He has an arsenal of 3 bikes - two hybrids, and road bike (brand new Specialized Allez). When he's riding his hybrids, I can easily pass him and put some distance between us. However, last night he was on his road bike, and it felt like I was riding with Lance Armstrong.

Depending on which path I take, my average speed will run anywhere between 18-22mph on flat(ish) surfaces. When I rode in front, that's about what I averaged, however, when he rode in front - the average speed went up to like 25+mph. The only reason I could keep up was because I was drafting him like crazy. What gives !??!?

I ride a 2011 Sirrus Elite - with tires upgraded from 700x28's to 700x26's, and different pedals which has helped my overall average speed and top speed tremendously. He's running 700x23's and general road bike geometry.

Do I just need to man up and ride harder? Or is it time to buy a road bike and spandex just to keep up with Lance?

One last thought - I always love annihilating roadies on the commute in to work. Especially the ones that are all superman'd/spandex'd out with full carbon everything. I generally ride in an old sweatshirt/gym shorts/big backpack. By switching gears and going all road - is that going start sucking the fun out of commuting - because it will be an all out race?

All input appreciated.
How often do you ride with this guy really? 1 of 3 bikes is fast of his... and you don't like that he's faster then you for once? It'd be most impressive if you'd just HTFU and beat him on the Sirrus Elite.

langsam, Grasshoppa, langsam

How often do you ride with this guy really? 1 of 3 bikes is fast of his... and you don't like that he's faster then you for once? It'd be most impressive if you'd just HTFU and beat him on the Sirrus Elite.

Usually ride with this guy once a week. It's always been friendly competition between us for over a year. Yesterday was the first day I rode with him while he was on the Allez.

It blew my mind how much faster he was once he moved over to a full fledged road bike. I don't mind that he's faster - but I'd like to be able to average the same type of speeds that he's able to, and I'm wondering if a road bike is really the answer - or if I'm just being a materialistic bike commuter.. lol.

Like I said, maybe I just need to man up, and go all out - but it sure seemed like a lot less effort for him to push that Allez..

What's your overall average speed on your 10mi commute because that's what will make a big diffence.

Usually ride with this guy once a week. It's always been friendly competition between us for over a year. Yesterday was the first day I rode with him while he was on the Allez.

It blew my mind how much faster he was once he moved over to a full fledged road bike. I don't mind that he's faster - but I'd like to be able to average the same type of speeds that he's able to, and I'm wondering if a road bike is really the answer - or if I'm just being a materialistic bike commuter.. lol.

Like I said, maybe I just need to man up, and go all out - but it sure seemed like a lot less effort for him to push that Allez..
It is, I went from touring and entry level road bikes to a real vintage road bike this year... I've even considered slimming down from 23's to get even faster.. the geometry and components make it like night and day, that said I still occasionally get passed by a guy on a loaded touring bike that flies past me like lightning.. you just gotta pick which way you're gonna go.

shave your legs.

What's your overall average speed on your 10mi commute because that's what will make a big diffence.

I can usually average 18-19mph over 10.5 miles going the route we went yesterday on my Sirrus.

Flats/slight incline/slight decline - 18-22mph.

Downhill best max is 38.34mph.

If I take a really hilly route - mostly uphill - my average over 9 miles is 15.24mph.


It is, I went from touring and entry level road bikes to a real vintage road bike this year... I've even considered slimming down from 23's to get even faster.. the geometry and components make it like night and day, that said I still occasionally get passed by a guy on a loaded touring bike that flies past me like lightning.. you just gotta pick which way you're gonna go.

Nice - so I guess the bike really can make a difference.

I've considered going down to a 23, but staying at 26 keeps the tubes on my bike interchangeable with my wife's who currently runs a 32. Kinda nice.

Also, just noticed that his chain ring is 50/34, while mine is 48/38/28 - which would explain why he is able to get a higher top speed (not to mention aerodynamics), and why his pedaling seems more effortless at higher speeds.

I can usually average 18-19mph over 10.5 miles going the route we went yesterday on my Sirrus.

Flats/slight incline/slight decline - 18-22mph.

Downhill best max is 38.34mph.

If I take a really hilly route - mostly uphill - my average over 9 miles is 15.24mph.

So are these your overall average speeds or just cruising speeds?

Wind is going to be your biggest enemy over 15mph. Tires not so much. You need drops if you want to keep over 20mph. I can ride 25mph solo over long distances, but I gotta be aero to do that alone. 20mph is a very fast clip for commuting. If you can hold 25 with nothing pushing you (no drafting, tailwind, downhill) you are in shape to race.

So are these your overall average speeds or just cruising speeds?

According to the bike computer:

Route 1 (10.5 miles) average speed over the entire trip is between 18-19mph.

Route 2 (9 miles, mostly uphill) average speed over the entire trip is 15.24mph.

On flats/slight inclines/declines, I have no problem pulling well over 20mph. But the above figures are the averages over the entire duration of the commute. Sorry if I wasn't clear before.

Get a red bike.

According to the bike computer:

Route 1 (10.5 miles) average speed over the entire trip is between 18-19mph.

Route 2 (9 miles, mostly uphill) average speed over the entire trip is 15.24mph.
Is this totaling in stops and slows? I.E. Traffic and lights/signs?

According to the bike computer:

Route 1 (10.5 miles) average speed over the entire trip is between 18-19mph.

Route 2 (9 miles, mostly uphill) average speed over the entire trip is 15.24mph.

On flats/slight inclines/declines, I have no problem pulling well over 20mph. But the above figures are the averages over the entire duration of the commute. Sorry if I wasn't clear before.

That's pretty impressive on a hybrid, on my semi hilly 8mi commute I averaged 17-18mph on my singlespeed converted road bike with a 42/17 gearing setup. I'm sure with a lighter bike you'll do just fine keeping up with him. Is a road bike necessarily? Well that's up to you and what you prefer for comfort.

Is this totaling in stops and slows? I.E. Traffic and lights/signs?

Yes. It's exactly what I get off of the computer from beginning to the end of a trip.

Route 1 has about 6 lights total, 3 miles in light traffic, 7.5 on a dedicated bike path. Much flatter.

Route 2 is mostly uphill, sharing the road with cars, cutting/pushing through several blocked off roads, about 4-6 stop signs, and 6(ish) pretty lengthy lights which I usually catch 2-3 regularly.

Yes. It's exactly what I get off of the computer from beginning to the end of a trip.

Route 1 has about 6 lights total, 3 miles in light traffic, 7.5 on a dedicated bike path. Much flatter.

Route 2 is mostly uphill, sharing the road with cars, cutting/pushing through several blocked off roads, about 8-10 stop signs, and 6(ish) pretty lengthy lights which I usually catch.
Get a road bike and start racing.. :D

You need to get more aero. Try some DIY mods like this.
282470

You need to get more aero. Try some DIY mods like this.
282470
Mr Canoehead has better aerodynamics.

282471

It's possible to ride a road bike and skip the spandex. There are also road bikes that aren't quite so heavy on the logos and the graphics. I think my Allez has about 8 Specialized logos on it and I'm not exaggerating. ;)

Personally, I'm happy to wear cycling shorts and I like the way my Allez looks but it's entirely possible to get something with a more subdued aesthetic.

A headwind and wind resistance make a difference but it sounds to me like the road transmission is also playing a role. The specialized sirrus has a mtb driver train and will always be marginally slower than a similar "engine" on a race-level road bike transmission. IMO, if you upgrade your sirrus to 105/rival or better you will notice a difference. You do have to be very fit to take advantage of the 52x11, however. Also, IMO road transmissions are so much longer lasting than cheap mtb transmissions that it always pays to upgrade.

A headwind and wind resistance make a difference but it sounds to me like the road transmission is also playing a role. The specialized sirrus has a mtb driver train and will always be marginally slower than a similar "engine" on a race-level road bike transmission. IMO, if you upgrade your sirrus to 105/rival or better you will notice a difference. You do have to be very fit to take advantage of the 52x11, however. Also, IMO road transmissions are so much longer lasting than cheap mtb transmissions that it always pays to upgrade.

I've considered going this route many times.

The nice thing about all the components on the Sirrus is that they are super cheap to replace. I think a new crankset was like $28 last time I looked. Whereas my friend just bought a crank for his Bianchi and spent around $200 for it.

Back to topic - it may make more sense just to be another bike if I want the gearing - buying all the components separately often end up running the cost of a new bike. Plus, having two bikes is better than having one.

Get a red bike.

Yellow is even faster

N+1 rules

Bottom line all else being equal (ie you the rider) a road bike is faster than a moutain bike, a hybrid etc.

(in my case the difference between my road bike vs my uprighht commuter utilty is that the road bike is about 2-3 mph faster on same rout for same effort)

Why? Best I can determine (lots or reading, not specific study) aerodynamics and biomechanics. The road bike position (even if not extreme) is much more aerodynamic and it positions the legs to allow more power.

Road bikes are great for dressing up in stretchypants and cruising around in the sun. When It's pitch dark and pouring I'm pretty happy for my "slow" full fendered commuter running 35s.

For commuting you need the best tool for the job. Racing, while it can be fun, is not the job.

Yellow is even faster

And black is the fastest of all :)

OP I commute on my road bike as my main bike everyday unless it's raining when those skinny little slick 23's aren't much fun. If the roads are wet I take the hybrid because the tires are much better in the wet. It is a night and day difference in ride, effort and speed between the two. I say go ride some road bikes see if it trips your trigger.

fasthair

For commuting you need the best tool for the job.

there's more than one best tool for the job of commuting.

on fair weather days, i wouldn't want to be on any bike other than my featherweight titanium road rocket. TOO! MUCH! FUN!

but when the weather is less cooperative, i'm more than happy on my IGH/hydraulic disc brake hybrid with 700x32 tires and full fenders.

and when i have after-work engagements, i'm glad i have a folder to ride to my destination so i can take the bike indoors with me instead of leaving it to the thieves out on the street. the mean, mean streets of chicago are not kind to nice bikes left unattended.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________


to the OP: the bottom line is that more bikes are always better than fewer bikes. get the road bike. you won't regret it. trust me.

A road bike is fun and will be a bit faster, but its not going to be like night and day faster.

joshuatrio, seriously the gearing isn't going to make it any easier to go faster. Lighter isn't going to help much either on your route. The wheels, narrower than 28 maybe at those 25mph+ speeds you're talking about.

Think "air resistance", not anything else. The road bike and, I have to admit it, the roadie costumes, are designed to mitigate air resistance at the expense of convenience and riding comfort in some ways. However, I don't hold with the one best tool for the job paradigm. A road bike with skinny tires, no fender clearance and no rack is every bit as good for a 10.5 mile commute as is any other bike, depending on your predilections. And since your predilection is for more speed it's almost a no-brainer that a road bike is better for your purposes.

Road bikes are awesome, there's no doubt about that.

However... if your *only* purpose is commuting, then I question the usefulness. If you're already going 20 mph excluding stop lights (which is crazy fast, in my world!), and you expect to get up to 25 on a road bike, then you're looking at (10.5/20 - 10.5/25)*60 = a 6 minute time difference. Also, if most of your commute is on a bike path, what is the speed limit? We've got a 20 km/hr limit here, and I don't like to push it much more than 2-5 km over.

On the other hand, if you want a road bike... then get one! They're lots of fun, and no amount of logic can argue with that. I prefer to commute on a slow heavy tourer with full fenders and racks (and now studded tires) - you never know when you might want to stop at the store and buy 40 lbs of groceries - but I also love my road bike and take it on nice days when I know I won't be making any stops along the way.

I think the OP is just trying to make up a reason to get another bike. :rolleyes:

I always thought, "It wasn't about the bike"

I think the OP is just trying to make up a reason to get another bike. :rolleyes:

Seriously. Just get a road bike. Ride that on nice days when you don't need to carry a lot of stuff; ride the current commuterbeast on the other days.

A road bike is fun and will be a bit faster, but its not going to be like night and day faster.

True - it's dependant on the rider. But if I could average another 3-5mph faster than my current commute - that would be SWEET ! If my average speed during commute were in the 21-25mph range that would be great. My friend said he almost never averages under 20mph since he picked up the allez.


joshuatrio, seriously the gearing isn't going to make it any easier to go faster. Lighter isn't going to help much either on your route. The wheels, narrower than 28 maybe at those 25mph+ speeds you're talking about.

Disagree - on the downhill stretches, I was in my highest gear, spinning away, while he was cool and calm with a couple extra rings on the back, and a larger ring on the front - just steadily pulling away from me. I'm running 26's, while he's on 23's - so that probably helps him out a bit as well.


Road bikes are awesome, there's no doubt about that.

However... if your *only* purpose is commuting, then I question the usefulness. If you're already going 20 mph excluding stop lights (which is crazy fast, in my world!), and you expect to get up to 25 on a road bike, then you're looking at (10.5/20 - 10.5/25)*60 = a 6 minute time difference. Also, if most of your commute is on a bike path, what is the speed limit? We've got a 20 km/hr limit here, and I don't like to push it much more than 2-5 km over.

If there is a limit on our bike path - it's not posted.

Too be able to crush my commute time by 6 minutes - would be amazing. Cars take an average of 20 minutes to go from my house to work, while by bike it takes me 27-35 minutes - depending on wind direction, weather conditions and route. 6 minutes could put the commute time equivalent to driving.

Usefulness is getting from point A to B as fast as possible. I never have to carry more than a light backpack with lunch, and some undergarments. We have showers at work, and I keep 3-4 days worth of clothes in my desk so I'm not hauling laundry back and forth.

Bike commuting has morphed into a competition - every day striving to beat the old commute time, average speed, max speed etc... Some people commute with panniers, racks, and gear - but I go with the bare minimum often. It's fun going fast, not paying a gas bill, and getting where you need to go just a few minutes shy of driving a car.


I think the OP is just trying to make up a reason to get another bike.

Good chance (that's what the wife says). I had a chance to look at the Specialized Tarmac's this weekend and almost sold my soul to get one. I like the Allez as well - but don't want to get into the carbon vs. aluminum debate here.


I always thought, "It wasn't about the bike"

Which is the point of this thread. In this case - is it about the bike? Does a road bike in this case equate to a much faster commute, and really give you an edge?

An ordinary steel road bike would probably be faster than what you're riding now. Your chief enemy is wind resistance, even downhill -- you should be able to tuck and coast faster than someone who is sitting up and pedalling.

T Does a road bike in this case equate to a much faster commute, and really give you an edge?
Well I think the question really is, is your current bike actually limiting you? Possible to ask coworker to take his bike for a test spin?

Seriously. Just get a road bike. Ride that on nice days when you don't need to carry a lot of stuff; ride the current commuterbeast on the other days.

This is what I do for the record. Commuting on a lighter, speedier bike is really fun when conditions are right.

Yeah, me too. During the spring and summer I commute on my race bike nearly every day. Either I'm taking a long detour on the way in, doing lunch time intervals, or riding to an evening group ride after work.

After buying new bikes over the last couple of years I finally figured out that getting a new bike will not help - riding the ones you have faster will ;) New bikes are cool though.

An ordinary steel road bike would probably be faster than what you're riding now. Your chief enemy is wind resistance, even downhill -- you should be able to tuck and coast faster than someone who is sitting up and pedalling.

If you are doing a 50 mile stage aerodynamics is the single most important factor. On a short commute/descent where you can go all out, not so much. In these situations the ability of the rider to spin the large ring is the critical factor.

Disagree - on the downhill stretches, I was in my highest gear, spinning away, while he was cool and calm with a couple extra rings on the back, and a larger ring on the front - just steadily pulling away from me. I'm running 26's, while he's on 23's - so that probably helps him out a bit as well.

But, you said, or at least implied, that your commute is mostly flat with slight inclines and declines. Even if you're running 48-13 it should be enough not to spin out.

Granted on a steeper drop you can push it faster with some steeper gearing, but that's not going to help but a few seconds on your overall commute time (which is what you asked about).*


Which is the point of this thread. In this case - is it about the bike? Does a road bike in this case equate to a much faster commute, and really give you an edge?

A few times I've made my 10 mile commute in under 30 minutes on my "hybrid", 30 pound bike with a rack and cargo, 32c tires. It's now 9.5 miles, which with my "road bike" at 21 pounds and 25c tires I can do it in under 28 consistently, a little faster. The hybrid has 48x12 top gear and the road bike is 44x11 (same gear ratio). I've done this commute hundreds of times with each bike, and while I might save only somewhere around 4 or 5 minutes on average with the road bike, I can say that the road bike is more fun and I can go faster in portions of it. But not enough to match the occasional strong rider who swooshes past me at 24mph+

This time of year, neither one is going to be very fast with my engine. Too dark, too cold, too many clothes. So I say a definite "yes" to the road bike, but not urgently.

* and if you do the math, even with those seconds shaved off we're better off putting that power into an uphill portion than expending it at the higher downhill speeds, if the best overall speed is the goal. You could even coast down the steep hills, saving the energy to put out on the harder sections, and will come out with a higher average speed for the power every time. Try it and see.