Winter Cycling - PSI for Studded Tires

I got the w240 aggressive all purpose tire

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp

How much psi should I use? I normally use 120 psi. Do I do the same with the studded tires?

How much psi should I use? I normally use 120 psi. Do I do the same with the studded tires?

120psi?? Wow - I'm not sure what would happen if you tried putting 120psi in that tire. Check the sidewall. It probably says something around 65psi.

I would follow the manufacturer's specifications. It's normally a range of minimum to maximum.

120psi makes sense for 700x23s but not 700x40s. Check the sidewall markings and use your best judgment. Google "frank berto psi" for a somewhat scientific guide.

Talking commuter bike: My Nokian W106 max sidewall rating is 65psi, That's where I run them when it's dry which is a lot of days in the winter. There may be small patches of ice which never go away all season but the studs still work fine, It helps a bit to decrease overall rolling resistance. But in real wintery icy conditions with lots of ice I'll run them at 35-45psi. The lower pressures really make grip improve due to a bigger contact patch and more give in the sidewalls. Of course they are slower on the dry parts, but that is the tradeoff.

I built my own "homemade" studded tires with a reasonably stud free center section.
On mostly clear roads I run at full (65psi) pressure. This gives a minimal stud contact, and wear, on the straight, any turn, and contact enhances.
Nasty weather prompts me to reduce tire pressure, (~40 psi) for solid contact from both center rows and outer row grabbing on any turns.
Very nasty? I lower seat ... allowing "skiing" with both feet.

Click on picture

http://www.ebikeforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=914&stc=1&d=1293733177 (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/494562-Making-Your-Own-Studded-Tyres?p=14911226&viewfull=1#post14911226)

Nokian mount and ground W 2" wide 26" can be run pretty soft because of their substantial sidewall.
not far off the above pattern but the tungsten steel studs
will not wear down. For my occasional use, still OK 20 seasons on.

But to prevent torque creep, Alaska based Allweather Sports suggested tubasti,
aka sew up tire glue, and glue 1 bead to the rim, so the tire wont slip, and take the tube with it
and shear the stem out of the tube,

Then 30~40 psi is OK.. but NB: Im on 26" wheels, not 700c...

reading linked page, PW says 45psi for the 26" & 200# rider.

my SnowCat rims are 45mm wide, tire is 50mm wide, so tire cross section is more D shaped
than the rounder profile of my fair weather wheels.

the D shape at low pressure puts more contact surface footprint down,
as well..

Nokian home page (http://www.suomityres.com/specs.htm) says 58/65 PSI (min/max) for W240 in 700x40C size. Same info should be printed on the tyre sidewall.

--J

glue the tire to the rim...not necessary for normal comuting but I can see it for situations where you might put on a serious amount of torque. it's hard to grasp the question. Anyone that normally runs 120psi is on a bike with decent tires and if that person is now running studs I have to believe he/she knows how to read the manufacturers' recommeneded pressure rating on the sidewall so I think the question was tongue in cheek.
that said I'd comment that even without gluing the tire to the wheel it's safe to run most tires well below the stated rating. Once winter hits I don't swap my studs out till spring so gluing in a few spots probably wouldn't hurt. I don't hesitate to run my Nokia 294's at 30lb and I weigh in around 250, but then again I'm typically just road riding on ice, not talking about offroad trail riding which puts a lot more torque on the wheel and greatly increases the chances of bottoming out the rim. Flat icy road riding allows a person to inflate at a lower psi than you would need if you're pushing through hilly trails.

I built my own "homemade" studded tires with a reasonably stud free center section.
On mostly clear roads I run at full (65psi) pressure. This gives a minimal stud contact, and wear, on the straight, any turn, and contact enhances.
Nasty weather prompts me to reduce tire pressure, (~40 psi) for solid contact from both center rows and outer row grabbing on any turns.
Very nasty? I lower seat ... allowing "skiing" with both feet.

Click on picture

http://www.ebikeforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=914&stc=1&d=1293733177 (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/494562-Making-Your-Own-Studded-Tyres?p=14911226&viewfull=1#post14911226)

This is one of my favourite tread designs for DIY studded tyres... it was originated by Tom Ritchey and then widely adopted by other makers with slight variations.

I run my 26 by X tyres at 55 psi in the winter for a plusher ride and when it is dry up the pressure to 65 psi... when it gets really nasty I will drop them to their minimum to get constant engagement from the studs.

I ride those. The recommendation is 58-65PSI and have never felt any need to go past that. The rubber is a soft compound that maximizes grip in low winter temperatures (much like automotive winter tires). They work fine. The high pressures normally found in skinny roadracing tires are an effort to minimize contact patch and rolling resistance - in winter you want as large a contact patch and as much grip as possible.

65 psi max on dry roads...less depending on conditions when they are not so dry.

Nokian home page (http://www.suomityres.com/specs.htm) says 58/65 PSI (min/max) for W240 in 700x40C size. Same info should be printed on the tyre sidewall.

--J

Interestingly, the set of 26"x1.9" Mount and Grounds that I received in the mail today are marked "Inflate to 200-300kPa (30-45psi)", even though the webpage says 58-65. That didn't stop me from taking them up to 60psi to seat the beads, but I wonder which spec is wrong...

That's weird. Shoot them an e-mail and ask?

--J

Yeah, hopefully they get back to me. If only because I'm curious.

I took my new Mount & Grounds for a 4.5 mile stud-seating ride and there were no explosions or lost studs @ 60psi. And they feel way more comfortable and easy to propel than my Kenda Klondikes were at any pressure. :D

Several posters here have referenced: 'on dry roads'. My understanding is that studed tires were primarily aimed at snow and ice and that nonstudded winter tires perform better on dry roads so I swap wheelsets according to the road condition and temperature. Anyone else doing that?

IDK about your location, but here there are year round springs draining out of hillsides
and across the pavement, when Its below freezing
you have a icy surprise in store.



30 psi works for me.. if the temperature is above freezing ,
as it typically is, ..

I'm on a different Bike.

I tried multiple Methods.

Studded tire on front only.
Swapped studded for mountain as roads cleared.

Front and rear studded.
Swapped front studded for mountain as roads cleared.

External geared motor on rear wheel, so swapping was too much of a hassle.
My method-objective was to keep the best traction on the front, for any weather condition.
Rubber does better on any non-iced surface.

Finally settled on 2nd eBike for better conditions, mountain bike treads, best for "dry" streets ... with the occasional sand residue on curves.

Several posters here have referenced: 'on dry roads'. My understanding is that studed tires were primarily aimed at snow and ice and that nonstudded winter tires perform better on dry roads so I swap wheelsets according to the road condition and temperature. Anyone else doing that?

You are right and I swapped wheelsets for a couple of years when I was rolling a single speed set up. It worked okay but eventually that got tiring too.

The thing is my commute has a few short sections that are in the shade almost all the time due to the low angle of the winter sun and they just don't melt off with any regularity, These are 100- 300 feet long, some downhills that can be shear ice all winter. The remaining 7 miles of the commute is dry blacktop a lot of the time. So not having the studs is treacherous, but only in a couple of areas. I've been on the ground in those spots more times than I care to mention, so... when the majority of my commute is dry, I roll with high presssures, when the weather turns and most of it get's covered I soften them up. But I keep the studs on and just grin and bear it.

You are right and I swapped wheelsets for a couple of years when I was rolling a single speed set up. It worked okay but eventually that got tiring too.

The thing is my commute has a few short sections that are in the shade almost all the time due to the low angle of the winter sun and they just don't melt off with any regularity, These are 100- 300 feet long, some downhills that can be shear ice all winter. The remaining 7 miles of the commute is dry blacktop a lot of the time. So not having the studs is treacherous, but only in a couple of areas. I've been on the ground in those spots more times than I care to mention, so... when the majority of my commute is dry, I roll with high presssures, when the weather turns and most of it get's covered I soften them up. But I keep the studs on and just grin and bear it.

Yeah, in the DC area the bike path that parallels I-66 is next to big sound-deadening walls that help preserve the ice even though the area is not super cold. In Germany many of the bike paths are shoveled & salted after snow. A few years ago we got a big blizzard & was happily riding a friend's mountain bike with 2-1/4" no-stud knobbies & was amazed how easy riding over snow was compared to my touring bike...1 block from home hit black ice & had a little spill.

Do studded tires help a lot over ice? I've read about auto non-studded snow tires...decades ago most folks would mount snow tires for the winter but when "all season" tires became popular they became much less popular. But now there are special rubber compounds that have tiny cells that create a lot of "stick"...however so many folks have SUV's or AWD cars they don't even consider snow tires & often wind up slipping & sliding. Jeez, after spending $50K on a vehicle one would think an extra $1K for snow tires wouldn't be so daunting.

Studded tires come in different varities for different conditions. I have them on both wheels and they stay on all winter till the end of march. I am always on good plowed roads and a short section of offroad so I use what was recommended by http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp . They are the Nokian W106 which have tungsten carbide studs down the middle and none on the sides. This is for road riding with some snow at times and alot of ice and / or black ice. So, use the recommended inflation pressure printed on the tire always.

Several posters here have referenced: 'on dry roads'. My understanding is that studed tires were primarily aimed at snow and ice and that nonstudded winter tires perform better on dry roads so I swap wheelsets according to the road condition and temperature. Anyone else doing that?

Main streets around here are "dry", secondaries are "frosty" with patches of black ice, and the sides, alleys and MUPs are rutty frozen messes.
So you can see my dilemma regarding swapping out wheelsets.

Nope, I'll just be a slow, buzzing (those studs make a lot of noise!) crazy guy on a bike until the spring thaw.

Several posters here have referenced: 'on dry roads'. My understanding is that studed tires were primarily aimed at snow and ice and that nonstudded winter tires perform better on dry roads so I swap wheelsets according to the road condition and temperature. Anyone else doing that?

I do that with my fat tires vs studs but once winter hits there's nothing but icy roads locally so non-studded tires on the road are worthless to me. If you are on good dry road most of the time and just find a small patch of ice here and there you might get away without studs but ice is very, very hard to negotiate without falling if you don't have studs so in that event I'd be using a less aggressive studded tire. They come in all flavors with various counts of studs and various types of knob but if the road is dry there's no need for studs. In my case the fat tire swap is to go out on trails in winter.

Chefisaac,

I have the same one in 700cx40. I read the link someone provided and see that the table offers "suggested" and "maximum" tire pressures. Is suggested the minimum?

The way I interpret the english language I would think that Nokian suggests running at 58 psi for most users of the W240, but that you can safely run pressure up to 65 psi for heavier bicyclists. But the question of "how low can you go" is perhaps intentionally left unanswered.

I'm thinking that it might not be a bad idea to run higher pressure in the rear tire since that is the one bearing most weight. And based on my ride to work today it seems like my front tire needed the most help. Kept trying to follow wheel ruts and/or slip off them.

Chefisaac,

I have the same one in 700cx40. I read the link someone provided and see that the table offers "suggested" and "maximum" tire pressures. Is suggested the minimum?

The way I interpret the english language I would think that Nokian suggests running at 58 psi for most users of the W240, but that you can safely run pressure up to 65 psi for heavier bicyclists. But the question of "how low can you go" is perhaps intentionally left unanswered.

I'm thinking that it might not be a bad idea to run higher pressure in the rear tire since that is the one bearing most weight. And based on my ride to work today it seems like my front tire needed the most help. Kept trying to follow wheel ruts and/or slip off them.

I like your idea of lower pressure in front and max in back for certain situations. I will probably try that tomorrow. I have been riding studded A10's for a few weeks, but no real ice until this storm tonight - I've been riding dry roads for the most part, or cold and rainy. I'm a larger rider (250 pounds), so I will probably run the A10's at 65 rear (max) and 55 or so in front tomorrow.

read the sidewall. pump to their max and adjust only a tiny tiny bit depending on conditions. those monsters will be fine at max pressure I'm sure. and I'm also sure max pressure is somewhere around 60 lbs, right? read the sidewall ...