Commuting - Car driver tells me flashing headlight is too distracting

I was stopped by a nice guy today at a stoplight and asked if I could change my front headlight, a relatively cheap $20 led, to stop flashing as it is too distracting.

My thoughts are...mission successful. Yours?

Mission accomplished.

"Thanks! You proved my point that it's working."

If (s)he doesn't understand, end the conversation.

I am inclined to agree, but maybe also think about the angle you have it pointed. Maybe a slight tilt down will do the trick and not annoy people whilst making yourself more visible.

Interesting response given this recent blog posting (http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/) which suggests that use of a flashing light during the day.

Andrew

Visible is good. Blinding is bad. Blinding means a reduced capacity to gauge where things are. When that happens to me, and I have to keep moving, I pick a line on one side of the lane to follow. Usually it's the one that should result in a reduction of risk of hitting big objects that could hurt me, which may turn out poorly for pedestrians and cyclists.

i've heard a flashing light makes it harder to determine the location of an object. but I always run with my lights on flash.

I do tilt the headlight down a bit so as not to blind drivers

actually, this got me thinking ...

when I have to ride on the street (i.e. no segregated bike path), almost all of the streets are segregated with a subway/surface line in between. meaning that a driver couldn't physically stop and say that my headlight is distracting, nor could the driver be distracted (at least by a headlight) and hit me.

i do run the rear on flash, but it seems that most other bikers run them on solid. in fact most riders have dynamos, integrated rear rack/lights with a sunlight sensor to turn the light on automatically. i'm probably one of the few people with a blinky, so maybe i'll convert it solid tonight

thoughts?

maybe i'll convert it solid tonight

thoughts?

i leave it on flash partially to save battery life, but if you've got a dynamo then that doesn't matter i suppose :)

Some strobe lights are "attracting" but others have such a low frequency that they leave big gaps of darkness, long enough for a driver to glance, see nothing and pull out in front of you from the side.

Flashing lights can be noticed but it is very difficult to estimate distance, esp it it is so dark, all you can see is the light.

Flashing lights should be used in poor daylight or dusk where you can be seen if someone looks. In the dark, switch to solid beam.

Some people run 2 flashing lights at different frequencies, much too hypnotic. Run one solid and one flashing.

"You saw my light? Well then it worked--too many cyclists and pedestrians get killed or hurt because drivers 'don't see them'."

I moved my 250 lumen light from my helmet to my handlebars because I was hearing nasty comments from pedestrians...

Two lights, front and rear, brightest on steady, less powerful light set to blinking.

I have a flashlight holder on my bars. I use both a flashing LED lamp, and a strong beam LED headlight that stays constantly on. It is a winning combination for me. During daylight, the flashing LED grabs drivers' attention and they don't pull in front of me. Perhaps they can't judge my speed (it's hard even with a steady light, since bike has a very narrow profile), but they SEE me coming. That's good enough for me.




Just to stress once more that it's hard for the human eye to judge your speed if you're coming toward the beholder, not moving laterally. So light on steady, or flashing doesn't make much difference. With cars it's easy, we subconsciously measure the visible distance between the two front headlights (about 1,5 meters) and by how big it appears and how it increases, we judge speed. With bikes that have lights too narrowly (one, or two mostly 50 cm apart), that's not possible.

Interesting thread.

Personally: I run both front lights on solid. However, there are two areas on the commute HOME that has delayed green lights (which are so stupid to be honest) and in the rain/dark I will use the blinky on the front if I feel the need.

For the back lights, Planet bike blinkies work great for me. I do run two different back lights. One solid and one blinkie.

I would say that if a driver said it was too distracting then it is working however as some say, perhaps point it down a little.

Run one solid and one flashing.

+1.

Part of driving is dealing with distractions. If you can't see well enough to judge whether to move into the bikers lane then wait. Cuss the rider but wait.

That said I ride with the front light solid, rears blinking.

In many jurisdictions, flashing (headlights or taillights) are a code violation. Further, as others have mentioned there is some evidence that they increase the likelihood of collision. On top of that, a flashing HEADLIGHT, reduces a headlights primary purpose--to allow one to see ahead of one. Headlights are not, primarily, about being seen, but about seeing.

And I will note, that by your (OP) own admission, the driver was polite and simply conveying what they believed to be relevent information (which as others have pointed out has some factual basis) and your instinctual response was sarcasm? Very civilized behavior/instincts you have.

I run two MagicShines on the front - steady on the bars, and flashing on the helmet. 2-3 flashers and a solid on the back. Frankly, I don't care if I distract or irritate a driver with my lights - at least they can see me. And I still have two right hooks in the past two days...

I have a flashlight holder on my bars. I use both a flashing LED lamp, and a strong beam LED headlight that stays constantly on. It is a winning combination for me. During daylight, the flashing LED grabs drivers' attention and they don't pull in front of me. Perhaps they can't judge my speed (it's hard even with a steady light, since bike has a very narrow profile), but they SEE me coming. That's good enough for me.

Just to stress once more that it's hard for the human eye to judge your speed if you're coming toward the beholder, not moving laterally. So light on steady, or flashing doesn't make much difference. With cars it's easy, we subconsciously measure the visible distance between the two front headlights (about 1,5 meters) and by how big it appears and how it increases, we judge speed. With bikes that have lights too narrowly (one, or two mostly 50 cm apart), that's not possible.

Completely agree with this. Would simply like to add that there is also a tendency to judge distance to a single light source by brightness and motion. And a slow moving low-powered bike headlight can fool oncoming traffic into believing you are much further away than you are. You might just as well be a distant motorcycle or car with a burnt out headlight - its just a light source.

BRIGHT lights are CRITICAL when driving in traffic and sharing roads with motor vehicles. Properly adjusted, 'bright' doesn't have to mean 'blinding' for oncoming traffic.

. Run one solid and one flashing.

+2. I often leave my cheap Cat Eye 3LED light on flash and then use a Light and Motion Stella on solid. I find the Stella is a little too bright on flash when it's really dark out. I reserve its flash for misty and low light conditions. When it's really dark I augment both with my old BLT halogen helmet light. That really brigthens things! The other day I was complimented by a driver who nearly clipped a wrong way ninja earlier that evening.

Headlights are not, primarily, about being seen, but about seeing.

Gotta disagree, in a well-lit urban area, a headlight is about being seen, rather than seeing. That's why on city bikes over here they only have 20-40 Lux integrated lights.

Two lights, front and rear, brightest on steady, less powerful light set to blinking.

This is my usual strategy on the street.

This is my usual strategy on the street.

Mine too... I'm not out to make friends, I'm trying to make it home alive.

You said he was a nice guy. I would have asked what he meant by distracted..
“Annoyed”or “Blinded”. Big difference in your safety and his.
Thank him for letting you know. Make adjustments on your light angle if necessary.
To respond all snarky as some have suggested is contrary to the respect y’all scream about lacking on the road.

In many jurisdictions, flashing (headlights or taillights) are a code violation. Further, as others have mentioned there is some evidence that they increase the likelihood of collision. On top of that, a flashing HEADLIGHT, reduces a headlights primary purpose--to allow one to see ahead of one. Headlights are not, primarily, about being seen, but about seeing.

I disagree. I believe that the primary function of headlights, both car and bicycle, is to be seen. On a car, brights and fog lights are used to see. Most bicycle lights are only bright enough to be used as "been seen" and not to see.

I do most of my riding during light hours. At these times, I flash both front and back. When it is dark out, I do have a (supposedly) >1000 lumin flash light on front that I turn on solid.

Cheers,
Charles

I have a flashlight holder on my bars. I use both a flashing LED lamp, and a strong beam LED headlight that stays constantly on. It is a winning combination for me. During daylight, the flashing LED grabs drivers' attention and they don't pull in front of me. Perhaps they can't judge my speed (it's hard even with a steady light, since bike has a very narrow profile), but they SEE me coming. That's good enough for me.




Just to stress once more that it's hard for the human eye to judge your speed if you're coming toward the beholder, not moving laterally. So light on steady, or flashing doesn't make much difference. With cars it's easy, we subconsciously measure the visible distance between the two front headlights (about 1,5 meters) and by how big it appears and how it increases, we judge speed. With bikes that have lights too narrowly (one, or two mostly 50 cm apart), that's not possible.

I agree. And your comment about cars is spot on. This is why I really don't like jeeps where they don't place the headlights at the outside of the width of the car. It makes them appear further away than they are.

Cheers,
Charles

I don't see the point of running the front light on flash. Drivers on the other side of the road aren't going to hit you, and you risk distracting them. It doesn't help you see the road at all.

Is the reasoning for front flash to help prevent people pulling out from side streets? I think a bright headlight would do the same coupled with riding farther away from the curb.

I try not to be any more annoying than I have to.

If they are not looking they won't see any amount of light.
We have people around here rear end tractors with a dozen halogen lights flashing.

Also having more than one light close together makes you look like a bigger vehicle that is very far away.

i've heard a flashing light makes it harder to determine the location of an object.



I tend to agree. Last night I observed a cyclist, with a single flashing rear light on his bike, I gauged him to be much closer to me (a good thing) with the type of light that he was using.

Mission Accomplished....

I was stopped by a nice guy today at a stoplight and asked if I could change my front headlight, a relatively cheap $20 led, to stop flashing as it is too distracting.

My thoughts are...mission successful. Yours?

Since he was nice, I would have kindly told him, that is what the light is supposed to do, draw attention. To give you an idea, if he saw me this morning at around 5:45am, dark out, and dealing with 50mph hour traffic, he would have accused me of having searchlights on my bike!! :D I have two 26650 lights up front, they are rated at 1600 lums. Take off the Chinese boost, and I will say that they are an honest 900 to 1100 lums..I have one on blinky, and the other one on high. In addition, I have a 18650 light on my helmet on blinky.. I have found out from experience that the blinking light draws attention.

Example, if car driver is looking the other way, on the phone, or whatever, with my blinkies, he is going to look up and see what this is. Mission accomplished. ;) I am not out there on an MUP, or dilly dally traffic. I am out there where cars pass me in excess of 50mph, and sometimes don't give me my 3 feet. Also, the car driver is only so-called distracted/annoyed, or whatever for a few seconds. However, the flip side is, he doesn't see you and makes contact.

AGain,. my set up is about 5 to 10 brighter than yours, and I am not changing a darn thing. One thing I do, is have the big two up front aimed at about 20 to 30 feet downward to the ground out front. Not up in drivers eyes.. However, I use my helmet light as a safety factor too. Around curves, and this happened this morning. One car, decided to ignore all the other lights and proceeded to try to take my right of way. Ha, he did a jump back big time, as I aimed that 18650 on my helmet dead at him. He jammed brakes and allowed me to pass. He was coming out a drive way, I am on the road, in my lane doing about 22 mph on the flats. :)

In summary, I think you need BRIGHTER LIGHTS.. ;)

I run two MagicShines on the front - steady on the bars, and flashing on the helmet. 2-3 flashers and a solid on the back. Frankly, I don't care if I distract or irritate a driver with my lights - at least they can see me. And I still have two right hooks in the past two days...

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Couldn't be said any better. ;) Also, in another thread like this, somebody posted that they have teenagers to put through college. Didn't want to lose it out there on a humble! Humble=Something that doesn't have to be.. ;)

Glad to see somebody share my exact opinion!! :beer:

That distracting a driver and that puts you in danger of being hit by said driver, is the biggest yarn I have heard in a long time!! ;)

Mission Accomplished.

Two lights, front and rear, brightest on steady, less powerful light set to blinking.
This is what I do in the twilight, or in traffic. I've received many more compliments on my lights than complaints too. I run both on high after dark, and that helped keep me from getting right hooked on the way home last night.

OP - was it dark out when the comment was made?

"You saw my light? Well then it worked--too many cyclists and pedestrians get killed or hurt because drivers 'don't see them'."

I moved my 250 lumen light from my helmet to my handlebars because I was hearing nasty comments from pedestrians...

Two lights, front and rear, brightest on steady, less powerful light set to blinking.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

I disagree. I believe that the primary function of headlights, both car and bicycle, is to be seen. On a car, brights and fog lights are used to see. Most bicycle lights are only bright enough to be used as "been seen" and not to see.

I do most of my riding during light hours. At these times, I flash both front and back. When it is dark out, I do have a (supposedly) >1000 lumin flash light on front that I turn on solid.

Cheers,
Charles

Then I suggest you try riding in the dark without any lights up front on a moonless night. Then tell me that headlights are primarily to be seen. Flashing a headlight during daylight hours is not going to distract anyone, and not likely to be much noticed either.

Headlights are on the opposite side of the road from you... Therefore you don't actually need to see them. If they are turning across your path, then cars at least have turn signals, which you could see. Also regs require headlights on cars to be on the path in front of the car, and not to shine at the vehicles coming in the opposing direction. Which is another indicator that your perception is mistaken...

Acidfast from Germany asks: re seeing steady lights only


thoughts?

I read about the regulation of bike lights is that they not flash, in Germany.


I have German Export lights, only flashing is the taillight,
in senso mode , when i stop, in the dark .

I have yet to see a solid construction warning light or emergency vehicle light. A little flashing from a bike should be manageable for a driver to handle.

I have yet to see a solid construction warning light or emergency vehicle light. A little flashing from a bike should be manageable for a driver to handle.

And those lights are not designed to shine at (or anywhere near) the eyes of vehicle operators. I understand it might be subtle to some, but that is a significant difference...

Theres a difference between noticeable and distracting.
Knee high skirt is noticeable, mid thigh high is distracting.

I want to be seen, but I don't want to annoy. I'd take the comment under advisement and see if I could aim so it is less annoying. Thus far I've had drivers tell me that could see me easily, joking that they didn't know what it was coming at them. But they haven't told me it was too much in their eyes. There are a lot of cyclists who ride in my area and I've only seen one flashing headlight set up among many that I thought would be potentially too annoying. (Saw a guy the other day with a solid light that was bright enough that standing at the end of my driveway looking down the road I thought a motorcycle was coming. I was impressed and wish I knew what he was running.)

Some strobe lights are "attracting" but others have such a low frequency that they leave big gaps of darkness, long enough for a driver to glance, see nothing and pull out in front of you from the side.

Flashing lights can be noticed but it is very difficult to estimate distance, esp it it is so dark, all you can see is the light.

Flashing lights should be used in poor daylight or dusk where you can be seen if someone looks. In the dark, switch to solid beam.

Some people run 2 flashing lights at different frequencies, much too hypnotic. Run one solid and one flashing.
This. Good points all around, and exactly what I do.

winning.

I had that happen once, and in hindsight I wish my response was "better annoying than dead"

that said, these days i angle my flashing light slightly to the right and down, so it's not as annoying but still flashing.

Solid lights after dark, flashing during the daytime.

It's pretty easy to blind other cyclists and motorists with sub-hundred dollar lights these days. I know people here will preach up and down that a blinded motorist at least saw you and isn't that super cool, but please don't do it. I pass multiple cyclists on a dark commute and the ones using solar flairs, aimed up, and flashing are by far the worst.

I don't see the point of running the front light on flash. Drivers on the other side of the road aren't going to hit you, and you risk distracting them. It doesn't help you see the road at all.

Is the reasoning for front flash to help prevent people pulling out from side streets? I think a bright headlight would do the same coupled with riding farther away from the curb.
Agreed. I'm not sure why the OP thinks his mission should be to "distract" drivers. I ride my bike much more often than I drive and I still think flashing headlights are annoying and useless....almost as annoying as hideously bright floodlights which might be good for trail riding at night but have no place on the street. A solid light with a shaped beam will light the road quite nicely without blinding oncoming cars and bikers. And cars coming toward you from the opposite direction are 20 feet or more away from you....small chance they will hit you. As for rear lights I also prefer bright and steady but admit the flashing rear lights are highly visible.

Also, not sure where you are, but I wonder if this driver also has a chat with every person he sees talking on a cell phone, texting, or otherwise driving distracted. It might just be a passive aggressive thing because he's in a car and you're on a bike (might not, but I'd be curious).

Hi,


I don't see the point of running the front light on flash. Drivers on the other side of the road aren't going to hit you, and you risk distracting them. It doesn't help you see the road at all.

Is the reasoning for front flash to help prevent people pulling out from side streets? I think a bright headlight would do the same coupled with riding farther away from the curb.

Yes, the biggest reason is to let people who are pulling out from side streets that you are there. I find a big difference when I am running a front flashing light in the behavior of drivers. It is also important for cars to see you coming (e.g., an oncoming car needs to pass a stopped car on its side).

Flashing has two reasons here: (1) It makes it more obvious to drivers and (2) it saves battery life. I've been driving with my headlights in the day time since the 80s, so I had to ask myself why I'd ride without a front facing light.

And I agree: riding further away from the curb when approaching side streets is a good strategy regardless of whether you have a light or not.

Cheers,
Charles

I don't see the point of running the front light on flash. Drivers on the other side of the road aren't going to hit you, and you risk distracting them. It doesn't help you see the road at all.

Is the reasoning for front flash to help prevent people pulling out from side streets? I think a bright headlight would do the same coupled with riding farther away from the curb.

Gotta have the front blinkie when rolling through some areas. There's one strip of my commute that I call The Gauntlet. It's about a mile long jam packed with driveways. Many of them fast food joint and bar driveways. You wanna be the most obnoxious rolling disco show possible when traversing such driveways. Frequent Airzound blasts probably wouldn't hurt none neither but I don't have one of those. Once I get past the KFC I put my light back to solid, though. I'll often put it back to blinkie if I see a driver coming up to the road from a sidestreet or driveway, just to make sure.

Funnily enough, in my FB feed this morn:


Dear cyclists, We can see you coming with just a normal light on your bike!!! It is completely unnecessary for you to have a bright flashing strobe light going @ 6 am not only on your bike but on your helmet , you people are going to give some one a freaking seizure with that ****!!!!!

And those lights are not designed to shine at (or anywhere near) the eyes of vehicle operators. I understand it might be subtle to some, but that is a significant difference...

Every construction light I have ever seen is pointed directly at traffic letting them know something is up.

Regarding emergency vehicle lights, have you ever been pulled over my a cop? Those flashing lights sure got your attention, huh?

On a side note though, and I mean this seriously, I often wonder how many people on this forum spend time behind the wheel of a car as well as on a saddle. I have 2 kids that I have to cart around and I put a bunch on miles on my wife's car doing so. I see cyclists all the time while I am driving and when I see the flashing lights I know it is a cyclist and I treat them accordingly. Never once have I thought, "Gee I wish that prick would stop with the flashing light business". Perhaps the OP's light was pointed a bit higher than needed and was causing an issue with drivers or maybe the driver was being a smart ass with the comment but I know for sure I have never been distracted by a cyclists light flashing. If people get distracted by such a small insignificant thing then I sure don't want them behind the wheel at all. Who knows what might distract them next.

So tonight when I ride home I will turn on my flashing lights and be on my way.

Dear cyclists, We can see you coming with just a normal light on your bike!!! It is completely unnecessary for you to have a bright flashing strobe light going @ 6 am not only on your bike but on your helmet , you people are going to give some one a freaking seizure with that ****!!!!!:

That's funny.

In many jurisdictions, flashing (headlights or taillights) are a code violation. Further, as others have mentioned there is some evidence that they increase the likelihood of collision. On top of that, a flashing HEADLIGHT, reduces a headlights primary purpose--to allow one to see ahead of one. Headlights are not, primarily, about being seen, but about seeing.

And I will note, that by your (OP) own admission, the driver was polite and simply conveying what they believed to be relevent information (which as others have pointed out has some factual basis) and your instinctual response was sarcasm? Very civilized behavior/instincts you have.



There are headlights to be seen by, and there are headlights to see by. Two different use cases. Flashies are to be seen by, as anyone who's tried to navigate a busy discotheque by strobe light alone has probably discovered.


I see you also responded sarcastically to OP's initial sarcastic response. In your experience, is answering sarcasm with sarcasm an effective method for addressing the problem, or is it more like to continue in the same vein?