Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Why do they fear us?

Today I was practicing trackstanding outside of my apartment in the street and some dude honked his horn at me so I turn around and gave him a good hard stare and he freaked out waving his hands fearfully as if I was holding a gun to his head.

This has happened to me several times riding my fixie. Someone will have a healthy display of road rage and I give a little bit back to them and they freak out and run scared. Why do motorist fear us? What is so scary about a skinny black guy wearing a tiny yellow hat with the bill flipped up, wearing a t-shirt and shorts?

the large heavy metal security devices we all love are efficent at damaging cars body work?

They fear freedom

dude well honestly we fear poor people, and well most of you black folks are kinda poor so we just asume your are poor and fear you...

Insane people are obviously to be feared. I'd probably run you over preemptively.

They fear freedom

Didn't Nicholson say the same thing in 'Easy Rider?'

l.a. roadrage sunday vol. 2:

this didnt happen to me.. jsut in front of me.. i was biking on hollywood and a passat wagon with a hippy-ish older guy andn wife in it was cruising the cross street..the light was green.. but in the cross walk was a woman.. walking across the streeet.. if the disheveled clothes didnt give enough hint to her mental state.. the fact she was carrying an umbrellaa on a beautiful day should have.. so this dude.. cuts in front of her, slowing down and honking the whole way ..and when hes right in front of her.. he unleases the most aggro middle finger/explative combo towards her that ive seen in a while... i dont know what this has to do with anything.. but i think the people are just pissed and unsatisfied.. all around.. this american dream thing sometimes isnt all its cracked up to be.. and nothing like a car ride to really stew those angry juices.. so.. in long.. maybe he didnt fear you..maybe his gut reaction scared him.. and you brought him back with a well placed mad dog.

oh.. and be glad youre on a bike

Damn, I thought your avatar WAS your picture-I was already pretty scared....

it was probably that hard stare you gave him...shudder...hard stares...

I think this road rage thing has something to do with people realizing, and not wanting to realize, how they have made themselves prisoners in their own cars.
They've spent huge amounts of money on their cars; worked at a job they hate to make the money; they've lost their health and their self-respect; and, to see "a skinny black guy wearing a tiny yellow hat with the bill flipped up, wearing a t-shirt and shorts," who has no money, no big car, no job he hates, no big gut, and who seems to have fun acting like a kid, well, that would just bring out the anger in anyone.
And then, to have this nobody on a bike dare to look right back into the eyes of a man with a big car, as if the big car didn't even exist, well, what a chilling experience.
Why, to allow that kind of look to go unchallenged would mean big cars and jobs have no real meaning.

When I first started riding in earnest, about a year and a half ago, people would say rude things out their windows as they passed in their cars.
They didn't know me, I hadn't done anything to them, and I think they just saw me as someone they could abuse without fear of consequence.
"Ha, Ha! I have a big, fast car, and he has a silly little bike; and, besides, he looks a little wobbly and unsure of himself. I can treat him like dirt and get away with it. That will make me feel big and strong and important inside the armor of my car."

Now I've gotten a lot more sure of myself and I don't wobble so much.
I don't get too many insults anymore.
I might have the legs and lungs to catch them at the next light and embarass them - maybe even give them the look.

I make an effort now to cultivate good realtionships with drivers.
I used to make rude gestures to the really mean ones, but not anymore.
Or at least, not so much, anymore.

This road rage thing has gotten serious.
People get killed.
If I really make someone mad, the next bicyclist could pay for my short term self-gratification (it feels good to give people the look).

I'd like to share a story told about Morihei Ueshiba by Mitsuge Saotome.
Some folks might laugh, and I don't mind.

-----

Once in Ayabe, when O Sensei was perhaps fifty years of age, he was visited by a very accomplished kendo master.
Anxious to test himself and to prove a point, the kendo master challenged O Sensei.
They walked into the garden together, the kendo master carrying his katana (sword), O Sensei empty-handed.
The sun flashed off the brightly polished steel as the kendo master moved into his kamae (preparatory stance), O Sensei standing quietly before him.
And they stood.
Sweat began to break on the kendo master's forehead, rolling down his cheeks like tears.
It fell like a thousand prisms from the strained and glistening muscles of his powerfully developed forearms.
And still they stood.
O Sensei, calm and detached, aware but not waiting, only reflected the image of the man and the glittering steel before him.
Five, seven, maybe ten minutes passed.
Exhausted from the struggle...the kendo man surrendered...

-----

I could substitute the phrase a skinny black guy for the title O Sensei, and the story would still make sense.

He may have thought that he knew you.

Ken. You are far too literate for this forum. People expect posts like ' Wazup with my pedALS'.
Back off on the intelect or you will offend.

Why do motorist fear us? What is so scary about a skinny black guy wearing a tiny yellow hat with the bill flipped up, wearing a t-shirt and shorts?

most motorist are too busy to give a s&*t about any cyclist...road rage is more often than not is carried out by cowards, bully types, and people who used to get their lunch money taken...and are now "not going to take any s*(t from anyone" until you check em'.....but really do you want to check em' i find it best to leave them to that person that will not simply ride away....because that person will do more to them than i will...

part 2 of that sadly even in california you are black afterall and they probably did think that you have begun to grow tired of the bike that you just stole and are down for a little carjack...
:D

Ken. You are far too literate for this forum. People expect posts like ' Wazup with my pedALS'.
Back off on the intelect or you will offend.


Ken has yet to ellaborate on "pie" ;)

I'd like to share a story told about Morihei Ueshiba by Mitsuge Saotome.


any story about the founder is a good story!

Ostro wrote:

"Ken has yet to ellaborate on 'pie'."

Pie?
Like cherry pie?
Or the number?

I like cherry pie.
I have a great recipe for cherry pie anyone can make.
Ya gotta have an oven, and a pie tin, and some cherries and a store bought pie crust, but other than that, anyone can make a cherry pie that will knock the socks off their girlfriend or boyfriend.

every tuesday is free pie day @ the coffeeshop i work at.....i think this week its pecan pie

Mincemeat pie actually has meat in it!

Pithy sarcastic answer: drivers suck
My actual guess: I've heard some people ask me why
bikers are always "goofing" off at traffic lights. I bet
drivers are just pissed we aren't dismounting and
bowing at the alter of the red, yellow, & green x-mas tree.

jeff

People in general suck. People in cars think people on bikes suck, people on bikes think people in cars suck. people like to beleive that what they do is the best, therefore anyone doing something opposite to what they do sucks. people who like to drive fast think people who drive slow suck because they don't drive fast, people who ride fixed gear think people who ride multi-speed recumbants suck (ok, recumbants do suck, but you get my point)...

Everyone just needs to learn about contentmant, be happy with what you have and what you do, and understand that others are alowed have the right to enjoy what they have and do, also. Violently enforcing your happiness (or lack there of) is pretty lame.

that's my two cents.

Morihei Ueshiba

never thought I'd see that name here! :eek:

Morihei Ueshiba, either instructing his students on the proper number of gears on a bike or answering the question, "How many tiny yellow hats does it take to instill fear in the common motorist?"

Actually I think I know what it was. I was wearing my green beanie, not my yellow cycling cap, I forgot I broke the bill..snapped it in half. That would explain the fear I'm instilling in the masses. Black guy in beanie means trouble.

Excellent posts, junioroverlord, Ken Cox, et al.....this thread rules!...... ;)

I say we need a fixie tour that ends at Pie Town (http://www.pietown.com/), NM.

Morihei Ueshiba, either instructing his students on the proper number of gears on a bike or answering the question, "How many tiny yellow hats does it take to instill fear in the common motorist?"

Mmmmmmm.....the "Yellow Hat" koan.

They fear us because they cannot control us. They resent us because we ride a different wavelength - comfortably sitting outside their frame of mind and logic set. They cannot understand us, nor can they happily accept the notion that just maybe we understand something they do not and are better off for it. So long as we remain faceless and nothing but a target, receiving information but not transmitting, they manage a certain level of personal security. The instant our eyes meet theirs and we become three-dimensional, active personalities with the full potential to act in reply to their actions, the base of that personal security drops out from under them and they are filled with a mixture of ignorant fear and irrational anger. When their bitter signals start bouncing back at them, panic sets in. Trapped in their cages, they cannot act out but through fundamentally empty and misdirected gestures and noises, growing ever more frustrated when we do not submit to their simulated fury. Blessed to be slippery, we eventually disappear from their vision and leave them to settle down again, as confused as they started.

It is a matter of a fatal insecurity.

JoL, maybe just a look in the mirror might answer the question...?

it was probably that hard stare you gave him...shudder...hard stares...

Definitely the stare. The term of art for that, by the way, is "ice grill," as in, "My ice grill strikes fear into the hearts of herbs."

Were you literally out in the middle of the street practicing your trackstand? Didn't your mother tell you NOT to play in the street?

seriously, if i say a grown man trying to do a trackstand in the middle of the street, I'd be wondering what was going on

I that you?

http://www.bikemenu.com/photos/famous/Raising%20Arizona01z.jpg

Mrs. Smith quivered as she approached O Sensei. After years of study at the Sorbonne, Mrs. Smith thought she was prepared to make a delightful pie. O Sensei was aloof....

i don't bother with the stare anymore. i give drivers a big smile if they're looking in my eyes, or throw them a peace sign. i find this even works when someone almost *accidentaly* runs me over. it pretty much either deflates them, or makes them even more mad when they realise they are wrong and i'm still happy, not miserable like they are and they want me to be. plus, i figure it could be someone i know trying to say hello but i don't know their car.


"good living is the best revenge."
-someone

i must say all bets are off if someone is deliberately assaulting me with a vehicle.

black man in a yellow hat. eh? anyone remember how many diff't colnago caps wesley snipes rocked in "white men can't jump"?

http://espn.go.com/i/page2/poster/poster_15.gif

black man in a yellow hat. eh? anyone remember how many diff't colnago caps wesley snipes rocked in "white men can't jump"?

http://espn.go.com/i/page2/poster/poster_15.gif


That's why that man is my hero.

Pithy sarcastic answer: drivers suck
My actual guess: I've heard some people ask me why
bikers are always "goofing" off at traffic lights. I bet
drivers are just pissed we aren't dismounting and
bowing at the alter of the red, yellow, & green x-mas tree.

I agree. Where I live I have to fight to keep my place on the road and not get railroaded by buses and cars. This generally means that if I can, I'll run a red. From my experience drivers envy the obvious freedom and joy cyclists have and this makes many of them angry in our direction. I have been subjected to mindless abuse from drivers for absolutely no reason other than, as has already been mentioned in this thread, they feel that they are superior in their little tin cages. Its sad really.

my favorite part of this thread? the fact that you were wearing shorts. i'm sitting here post-ride wearing capeline, silk long underwear, and smartwool socks.

You know, I used to not believe it. It seems like a pile of self-serving dimestore psychology. But I was relating to my wife about a guy who went absolutely ape when I was squeezing my way between two lanes of stopped cars and I bumped his sideview mirror with the outside corner of my bag.

I thought maybe it was a bigger deal than what I was crediting, but my wife, as a non-cycling disinterested 3rd party, told me I was right to think that it wasn't any big thing. She figures just like many of you that he's just angry because I'm zipping (well, more creeping, but you know...) along while he sits there probably far enough back that it's going to take two cycles to make it through the intersection.

Weird.

people in yell things and get pissed when I ride by... So, I give them a nice thank you wave and say have a nice day, it scares the bejesus out of them! I think they are scarred of us because the envy us!

generally from what i've gathered riding my bike in socal when i am home is: people don't really see the bike as anything more than a nuisance. i don't know how it is in other areas, but orange county i have had plenty of close calls. people honking at me for riding through an intersection on a green. ok, what gives there? to the time in newport beach someone drove their car into the bike lane and slammed on the brakes to tell me: 'don't ever *@#!#@ touch my car again or i will kill you.' i thought a polite tap on the hood for him to pay attention was sufficient after he pulled into the bikelane while i was midway in a sprint.

i think half the problem is people are cultivated in a society where the car is essential. now after living in denmark for the past six months, going home and driving was hard. it sucks. yes riding my bike might take longer in some instances and heavy downpour is never too fun, but i always have freedom. the four times i drove while i was home for christmas, i felt like i was rotting away in my car and killing braincells. everytime i saw a cyclist i wanted to honk and scream: 'your my hero!' but that might scare them. i think the only way to know the feeling is to commute more and more on a bike for errands. hell, i just moved to my new place in copenhagen solely on my bike and a bus trip since i needed to move the rest in a day. (pictures to come).

with a bike, you have the freedom to go wherever you want. go down oneway streets if your edgy. see buildings and places you would otherwise miss in a car as your eyes stick to the road. my favorite thing to do now is when i get a car horn is to just wave back and smile. it really confuses people in their moment of rage. show them how good of a time you are having. and then catch a quick glance as they cuss themselves out in their cars due to confusion. oh....if only i had a camera to capture those moments.

What is so scary about a skinny black guy wearing a tiny yellow hat with the bill flipped up, wearing a t-shirt and shorts?

Same here except replace skinny with big and yellow with red. I don't even yell at bad drivers (often). Eye contact is normally all it takes to have them changing lanes or speeding off.

I agree. Where I live I have to fight to keep my place on the road and not get railroaded by buses and cars. This generally means that if I can, I'll run a red. From my experience drivers envy the obvious freedom and joy cyclists have and this makes many of them angry in our direction. I have been subjected to mindless abuse from drivers for absolutely no reason other than, as has already been mentioned in this thread, they feel that they are superior in their little tin cages. Its sad really.

Drivers do not envy your freedom. As both a driver and a cyclist, I can say that "cyclists" raise my ire when I take care to pass them on a busy narrow road, only to have them split a lane, run the light, then slow everybody who already passed them down AGAIN. If you are such a cyclist, you deserve all the "mindless abuse" you endure. You can rationalize your behavior all you want, but if you habitually run reds in traffic, you deserve no respect from motorists. Flame away...

Drivers do not envy your freedom. As both a driver and a cyclist, I can say that "cyclists" raise my ire when I take care to pass them on a busy narrow road, only to have them split a lane, run the light, then slow everybody who already passed them down AGAIN. If you are such a cyclist, you deserve all the "mindless abuse" you endure. You can rationalize your behavior all you want, but if you habitually run reds in traffic, you deserve no respect from motorists. Flame away...

By split a lane do you mean riding in the middle of a lane? I do when the situation calls for it. I don't care if I slow people down behind me. If not taking the lane creates a dangerous situation for me, I put my well being over the convenience of those behind me.

Drivers do not envy your freedom. As both a driver and a cyclist, I can say that "cyclists" raise my ire when I take care to pass them on a busy narrow road, only to have them split a lane, run the light, then slow everybody who already passed them down AGAIN. If you are such a cyclist, you deserve all the "mindless abuse" you endure. You can rationalize your behavior all you want, but if you habitually run reds in traffic, you deserve no respect from motorists. Flame away...

Huh, when I do that the cars almost never pass me again. Is it only the slow bikers you hate so much?

No, splitting lanes is creating a lane where none exists. ie, taking that little dashed line for your own, riding between two forward moving lanes of traffic.

As a cyclist who splits lanes and passes drivers and sometimes runs lights, here are my thoughts on the subject:

- The road is meant to be shared. If I'm going slower than the prevailing speed, I'll move right whenever possible to allow faster traffic to pass.

- I will not stay behind a column of cars. Often I pass a car and never see them again. I don't see why it's my responsibility to not pass a car just because they MIGHT pass me again in the future. Bikes pass cars in congestion, cars pass bikes on the straightaway. Often you have no idea what the exact mix of those two factors will be.

- I will run a light but only under the conditions that it does not put me unduly at risk and does not impede anyone's right of way. Sorry if I'm not solidarizing myself with people stuck at red lights, I'm not too worried.

When I'm splitting lanes the usual situation is that I'm not going to see the fellow again and no one has ever given me grief for it. Now that is in thick inner city traffic where most of these motorists already know they aren't going anywhere in a hurry. I only do it on the one way roads as there is always plenty of room on the two ways to claim 3 feet to the right or claim the parking lane. I'd rather be as fast as I am between lights than run them and misrepresent my community, plus I got that whole "Live Forever" urge working. I figure if i haven't been meat-wagoned in 12 years and a quarter mil miles that my number must be up and the only thing keeping it back is mindful riding.

No, splitting lanes is creating a lane where none exists. ie, taking that little dashed line for your own, riding between two forward moving lanes of traffic.

As a cyclist who splits lanes and passes drivers and sometimes runs lights, here are my thoughts on the subject:

- The road is meant to be shared. If I'm going slower than the prevailing speed, I'll move right whenever possible to allow faster traffic to pass.

- I will not stay behind a column of cars. Often I pass a car and never see them again. I don't see why it's my responsibility to not pass a car just because they MIGHT pass me again in the future. Bikes pass cars in congestion, cars pass bikes on the straightaway. Often you have no idea what the exact mix of those two factors will be.

- I will run a light but only under the conditions that it does not put me unduly at risk and does not impede anyone's right of way. Sorry if I'm not solidarizing myself with people stuck at red lights, I'm not too worried.

Word.

I run red lights when I feel it is necessary, not just because I can. If I'm sitting at the lights and I just know that the driver behind me is gonna cut me up then I will take steps to prevent that. Especially as the bike lanes in Glasgow are also the bus and taxi lanes and bus drivers are VERY unforgiving of cyclists. I'm not paranoid - it happens all the time. I live in a city where there are very few cyclists and lots of drivers who are always in a hurry.
The way I see it, if a driver thinks that he has more right to the road than I do then I won't give him an inch (I won't purposefully slow him down or get in his way but I sure as hell won't slow down and move onto the kerb to let him pass). And for the record I have never had a crash involving a car, nor have I ever caused and accident with a car.

stoping at redlights is for suckers. If people in cars won't respect the law that I'm allowed to ride my bike on the road free from harm, then I'm not gonna respect the law that says I'm supposed to stop at stop lights

a lot of drivers treat bikers like dirt because a lot of them realize that if either party screws up, the biker could very easily be dead, and if it's in any way what so ever the cars fault, that means jail time. when i ride through center city (philly) at rush hour, i don't trust any of the drivers not to cut into that empty spot in front of me and slam on their brakes, so they probably feel the same way. also when you ride, you tend to be more relaxed, you're doing something you love, not rotting away in a car. it's like having a picnic outside of a prison.

I run reds all the time but never at the risk of my life or the impedance of traffic just as quite a few of us have already said, but how does that give motorists the right to be angry at me for doing so?

Stopping on a bike is much more inconvient than stopping in a vehicle, I just keep moving as much as possible. If it was as simple as apply pressure to a pedal, I'd be more prone to stopping at every light. Its much more of a process though, I have to brake or skid depending on the situation, or maybe apply back pressure (my point is expend physical energy), clip out and then dismount, or trackstand. Then to get started man oh man, I have to expend energy again getting back up to speed.

Now if its one of those silly traffic control lights (as most are in my neighborhood) what harm am I doing running it? Pedestrians do all the time, why don't we get angry at them? Oh because if they mess up its thier life. Such is the freedom of being a cyclist. We get to do certain things that we would never do in a car because the risks are every so much higher and much more grave when you're playing with two tons of steel going at 60 mph.

Are motorist envious? I know I am when I'm in a cage. And yeah, I may be a cyclist but during the summer I'm a van driver for summer camp, I have a commercial drivers license. What I'm saying is I have a good view of both sides. Traffic sucks and when you see someone totally bypassing a traffic jam you've been stuck in for twenty minutes, its gets your ire up, I understand that. What gets to me is why is it that because I'm a cyclist people assume, I'm a criminal or I'm poor?

I that you?

http://www.bikemenu.com/photos/famous/Raising%20Arizona01z.jpg
No that's Crunkologist. Seriously, yo, wassUP with my pedals, dawg? LOL LMFAUPD! RoR LoTR!