Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - need to replace my bareknuckle

My bareknuckle frame died (its a long story) and I need a new frameset to slap its parts onto, which includes relatively nice stuff (Sugino 75 crankset, custom 1500gm wheelset, thomson seatpost, etc).

At first I was considering just buying another Bareknuckle (~$700), but after looking around, now I am thinking about just getting a Pake French 75 frameset (~$400). Geometry is similar, and the Pake is probably a lot lighter, mainly because of the carbon fork. And its several hundred dollars cheaper. I also make enough money that I don't need to ride around a crappy Kilo TT, but on the other hand, saving money is always nice. Has anybody ridden this thing?

For this particular bike I am not interested in fenders, big tires, or relaxed geometry. I will mainly be riding this thing on roads, for relatively short, high intensity rides with some hills. I'm mostly interested in stiffness, and to a lesser degree, weight, and I would prefer provisions for front brake and standard round tubes (so I can mount bottle cages). The BK worked well for this, which is why I'm tempted to get another, or something like it.

I'm also considering a Wabi Lighting SE, at a substantially higher cost, although this deviates from the original intent of the bike (lighting fast sprinting bike) toward a more comfy road-oriented bike. I'm willing to consider that, but am hesitant. I have other road bikes after all. But considering the apparently quality of the frame, it may be worth spending the extra money here, although thats about as high as I am willing to go. (links to frames below)

What do you think? What about other options.




Pake...~$400.....http://store.somafab.com/paaltrfrset.html'
Bareknuckle...~700....http://www.retro-gression.com/product/eai-bare-knuckle-track-frameset
Wabi Lightining SE...~775...http://www.wabicycles.com/Lightning-SE_bike_spec.html

Dog, I ride the nicest kilo on the planet. The frame is nice. Ain't nothin wrong with it unless its the brand you don't like.

I've been very happy with my 722 and wouldn't hesitate to put high-end parts on it, but only the Heritage and "LO" versions are available now.

Have you considered the Cinelli Gazzetta? If I were getting another steel bike, I'd probably be torn between the Gazzetta and the BK. I don't like the way aluminum rides though, so I'm increasingly partial to steel.

They have specials on ebay for 325 shipped
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pake-French-75-Track-Frame-and-Fork-57cm-Blue-BRAND-NEW-w-FREE-UPS-SHIPPING-/350638162964?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item51a3a9c414)

I'm also partial to steel frames but I do love my 7003-AL Dodici. The French 75 is a nice ride on smooth roads but can be a bit of a nightmare on bumpy/torn up pavement.

Have you considered a Soma Rush or All-City Big Block?

CogHouse is also selling off remaining US stock of the mass-marketed Dodici Gara frames and matching carbon forks on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=dodici+gara&_sacat=0&_odkw=dodici&_osacat=0&_from=R40) for decent prices.

Have you considered the Cinelli Gazzetta? If I were getting another steel bike, I'd probably be torn between the Gazzetta and the BK. I don't like the way aluminum rides though, so I'm increasingly partial to steel.

OK. Will have to look at the Gazzetta more carefully. The stainless dropouts seem nice, but otherwise cheap cromo. Not sure if its worth the cost over another cheap steal frame. Its been a long time since I frame-shopped, so I don't know much about whats currently available. Maybe I am underestimating it?



I'm also partial to steel frames but I do love my Dodici. The French 75 is a nice ride on smooth roads but can be a bit of a nightmare on bumpy/torn up pavement.

Have you considered a Soma Rush or All-City Big Block?

Thats one of my main concerns with the French 75 although it would be an interesting experiment. The Bareknuckle didn't ride very nicely either compared to a road bike, but it never bothered me much. The main thing I disliked about the BK was the massively heavy, ugly, and stiff fork. The French 75 fork is carbon and looks way nicer overall.

The Rush and Big Block don't have the right geometry I'm looking for....top tubes too long relative to head tube.

The Gazzetta may not be fancy high-end steel but it is a very nice frame. It's also considerably lighter than a BK of a simliar size.

The Gazzetta may not be fancy high-end steel but it is a very nice frame. It's also considerably lighter than a BK of a simliar size.

How about stiffness?

CogHouse is also selling off remaining US stock of the mass-marketed Dodici Gara frames and matching carbon forks on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=dodici+gara&_sacat=0&_odkw=dodici&_osacat=0&_from=R40) for decent prices.

Cool...link to geometry?

It's the same geo as the Italian-made Gara frames:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6142/5929657015_d2921b48f5_z.jpg

How about stiffness?

The only one I've ridden is one that was built up for a customer at the shop and it was too small for me so it was a little tough to get a good feel for it but it seemed very responsive and similar to my BK overall.

It's the same geo as the Italian-made Gara frames:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6142/5929657015_d2921b48f5_z.jpg

Thats the most minimalist geometry chart I have ever seen! 73 degree head tube angle with 30mm fork offset seems like it would be oddly sluggish. (I'm looking at the 57.)

Yeah, when I had my custom 56cm frame made I had them tighten it up a wee bit to be more like my Bare Knuckle.

Dog, I ride the nicest kilo on the planet. The frame is nice. Ain't nothin wrong with it unless its the brand you don't like.

Not worried about the brand...I'm sure the frame is fine. Its not what I want. Geo is also not to my liking.

The only one I've ridden is one that was built up for a customer at the shop and it was too small for me so it was a little tough to get a good feel for it but it seemed very responsive and similar to my BK overall.

LOL...in other words, you have no idea! Anyway, sounds like I should consider it. The geo is in my ballpark.
Damn, now I have to choose between four framesets.

Dog, I ride the nicest kilo on the planet. The frame is nice. Ain't nothin wrong with it unless its the brand you don't like.

I agree, I really like the frame, nothing wrong at all with it.

I agree, I really like the frame, nothing wrong at all with it.

I have a couple BD bikes (not a Kilo tt). I don't dispute that its a nice frame for what it costs, and it certainly doesn't hold anyone back.
But its seems like there a lot of this going around...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

I can point out several things wrong with the Kilo tt...for instance, fender eyelets without room for fenders. What about the countless different models using the exact same cookie cutter frame? And also, how about the evolving geometry chart with no apparent changes ever made to the frame itself? I have absolutely no faith in BD geometry charts.

Van Ness? Or Rush if you want more "track" geometry.

Soma's pages for the Rush and Van Ness have not been loading for me for two days now, so I can't look at the geo. Don't need the lugs, though.

Just so you know.. Scrod is selling the French 75 for $350 right now for today's sale.

http://www.retro-gression.com/product/pake-french-75-frameset

Allow me to live vicariously through you:

http://www.dpmsports.com/dolan/03-track/precursa.html

Just so you know.. Scrod is selling the French 75 for $350 right now for today's sale.

http://www.retro-gression.com/product/pake-french-75-frameset

Yeah, I just noticed that pop up in the last couple hours. Wonder if it had anything to do with post #4?
I'm getting impatient. I probably will just go ahead and order this from Scrod this evening if I don't change my mind.

Ha! Pricing on the whole site has been randomly going crazy throughout the day because it's Monkey Business Monday!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/scrodzilla/MBM-SITE-3.jpg

I see nothing wrong with the kilo TT. I'm about to buy a used complete grape soda kilo TT and throw some tektros on there. Beater status.

Nobody said there was anything wrong with a Kilo TT, it's just that mihlbach is looking for something else (and stated some good reasons why).

It's okay to not ride a Kilo TT.

It's okay to not ride a Kilo TT.

I guess I'll be seeing you in hell.

Nobody said there was anything wrong with a Kilo TT, it's just that mihlbach is looking for something else (and stated some good reasons why).

It's okay to not ride a Kilo TT.


I guess I'll be seeing you in hell.

no He got off that hype train in time

Pretty sure he meant he'll see me in Hell because I don't ride a Kilo either.

Funny how BD's reputation has flip flopped from one irrational extreme to the other on this forum since I joined.
Formerly this place was infested with annoying hipster-snob NJS afficianados. During those days, BD bikes were mostly the butt end of jokes. Now the tide has changed and the forum is dominated by penny pinching BD supporters who irrationally justify their cheapness by endlessly praising and defending their tasteless mass-produced lowest common denominator bikes.
I have always maintained a fairly neutral position on this over the years. The reality is that BD bikes are excellent bikes for the price, and sufficient most of the time (I have a Jury frame and a BD mountain bike, and they are both great bikes).
However, BD bikes are not always the best bike for the price. Also, the bikes and the entire BD coorporate entity are truly tasteless in appearance (although BD is not alone here).
More importantly to me, they persistently have annoying design flaws (e.g. mismatched brake bridges, eyelets without space for fenders, weird and inconsistent geometries etc.). This suggests that the person who designed and speced the various models was either careless or had no idea what he was doing (other than sales).

There's nothing wrong with riding a BD bike, but a little reality check is good from time to time.

^ohhhh ahhhhhh

this will get the forum jump started.

News to me: I'm cheap.

^ohhhh ahhhhhh

this will get the forum jump started.

Yeah, I shoulda just started a new thread.

Damn, he nailed it on the head with BD.

Pretty sure he meant he'll see me in Hell because I don't ride a Kilo either.

I know I meant that you don't ride that train (to hell on a kilo)......I started with a Dawes SST and its nice (all that left is the frame) but I wouldn't own another BD Bike....and I certainly wouldn't buy a Kilo to replace a BK

and I certainly wouldn't buy a Kilo to replace a BK

This!

Probably shouldn't have been mentioned in the OP then.

I was attempting to ward off an endless stream of Kilo tt suggestions, but apparently you didn't get the hint.
Anyway, dog, I'm glad you've convinced yourself that your one-size-fits-all cookie cutter frame is the bestest ever for everyone.

Based on the frame you were riding, and the frames you were interested, and the fact that you aren't some dumbass looking for his first sw8 fixay, a Kilo TT wouldn't have been suggested.... until you suggested it...

Sounds like you have a stick up your ass.

It seems pretty clear that of all your options the Wabi is the best option, and it only comes in at 75 more than the BK. Not sure why OP is still arguing over what he Doesnt want (kilo).

He doesn't want the relaxed geometry that the Wabi has. Also, workmanship is a concern, and IIRC jdg had an issue with his.

I'd honestly pick up another BK if you didn't have an issue with the previous one.

Also, if you're willing to go up to 775 for the wabi, have you considered a Toyo Godzilla?
http://www.retro-gression.com/product/toyo-godzilla-track-frameset

Doesn't really get more baller than that, and it seems to be exactly what you're looking for.

Dammit you guys, I just opened the popcorn. Keep arguing over stupid stuff...

Thanks for all the suggestions. I ended up not changing my mind, but the thread gave me a clearer idea of what I really wanted and needed.
I ordered the Pake French 75. The geometry (59) is about exactly what I was looking for, I am curious about the aluminum and carbon fork (all my FGs have always been steel), and the price was too good. We'll see how it goes. I still have my eyes on a Wabi, but not until I get past my next N+1, which happens to be a new ss29er.

Scrod's sale came a went so fast, I ended up having to go thru ebay.

Dammit you guys, I just opened the popcorn. Keep arguing over stupid stuff...

Yes, this whole website is about stupid stuff...gotta argue about it somewhere. I'm always game for a good BD debate.

Report back when it is done, I am curious about that frame. Although Im not so sure the largest is big enough

You probably could have just asked him and he'd give you a deal anyway.

Unless he wouldn't and I should shut up for suggesting that he gives everybody a deal and ruin his business. :lol:

yeah get back to us on the F75, Looks really solid, but have yet to see one/hear anything about them.

To be honest, I wouldn't doubt Scrod when he says they're nicer than people make them out to be.

It's probably something that'll last more than what most of us here on the forums can put it through.

You probably could have just asked him and he'd give you a deal anyway.

Unless he wouldn't and I should shut up for suggesting that he gives everybody a deal and ruin his business. :lol:

The sale (French 75 for $350 on Retrogression) was up for literally a few hours. Its scrods business, and I would have preferred to buy the frame from Retrogression (despite the greater cost + shipping, compared to $325 shipped from ebay) but that's just not how to run a sale.

What color did you get?

Blue was the only color available in 59cm.