Bicycle Mechanics - I've designed a locking solution for a Commuting bike, is it worth?

I've noticed that Commuters ("bikers in suits") often are not happy with U-Locks, Cable Locks, etc., as dealing with them can be a kind of embarrasing. Also when you leave your bike for 5 min (like buying that doughnut), messing with e.g. a U-Lock is not appealing at all.

That motivated me to develop a locking solution against occasional stealing that is less messy and quite quicker to use. It also suggests less contact with mud (important for the Commuters and maybe even for some mountain bikers). So I've spent several evenings to shape my thoughts and put the result (code name "BuLLLock") on Coroflot (site for designers):

http://www.coroflot.com/vitgean/The-BuLLLock-locking-solution-for-the-Commuters

Now I'm curious about what other bikers might think about this. Is it worth materializing, or other solutions are still better for the Commuter?

Would you please advise.

Thank you.

Vit

Not bad.

You may be overstating people's frustration with conventional locks though. Reminds me of the infomercial on The Simpsons for the Juice Loosener, where actor Troy McClure is making orange juice by squeezing an orange against his eye, and then says 'I wish there was an easier way!'

Hi,

My dislike for U locks lead me to buy a Masterlock Cuffs lock (http://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-8290DPS-22-Inch-9-Link/dp/B0009V1WQQ). Still has the kryptonite-like anti-theft warranty and is a bunch easier to use.

Cheers,
Charles

I live in Sacramento, California which has a relatively high bike
theft rate per rider...........i would be reluctant to endorse any
locking system that encourages momentary locking that "just
blocks the wheel" for a quick run into a coffee shop.

Just my take on the issue.

Hi,

My dislike for U locks lead me to buy a Masterlock Cuffs lock (http://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-8290DPS-22-Inch-9-Link/dp/B0009V1WQQ). Still has the kryptonite-like anti-theft warranty and is a bunch easier to use.

Cheers,
Charles
One of these days I'll be getting those too, that's my preferred alternative to a U-lock too.

A lot of forks nowadays are made of carbon fiber and have fluted, oversized, and/or aero shape tubing. How is your mounting system going to mount on all of these different sized forks? The one you have pictured has a shape like a steel fork.

Not to pat myself on the back but to give you a basis for evaluating my opinion. I've been a bike accessory distributor for 40+ years, and for many of those was the largest distributor for Kryptonite in the world.

Your lock falls into the Catch-22 middle ground. It isn't secure enough to replace a decent U-lock, and it's too heavy to replace a light "run-in-for-a-minute" anti-grab-and-run lock. There was a lock of a very similar design some 20 years ago, that sold a decent amount (to dealers) in their first year, and now 20+ years later, you can still find them collecting dust among the other locks.

it just like an old Swedish/Finnish wheel lock, which is usually welded to the frame in the rear triangle.

at least 30 years old ... every Monark had one

I agree with all above. + It is the absolutely the most STUPID POS I have ever seen. (Except rod/U brakes)
Rear wheel Ring locks would be far better.

Many European utility bikes have a built-in lock that immobilizes the fork so the concept isn't new. Since this lock only immobilizes the front wheel and does not attach the bike to anything solid, all the thief has to do is pick it up and toss it in a car or truck. Motorcycles also have fork locks but they are generally too heavy to swipe easily.

Many European utility bikes have a built-in lock that immobilizes the fork so the concept isn't new. Since this lock only immobilizes the front wheel and does not attach the bike to anything solid, all the thief has to do is pick it up and toss it in a car or truck. Motorcycles also have fork locks but they are generally too heavy to swipe easily.

The hook part is meant to loop around a stationary object.

The hook part is meant to loop around a stationary object.
It seems to be mostly intended just to go through the front wheel spokes to keep the wheel from rotating. For looping around a stationary object, the object better be small as the hook has a very narrow span.

...........i would be reluctant to endorse any
locking system that encourages momentary locking that "just
blocks the wheel" for a quick run into a coffee shop.

Differing from e.g. Frame Locks, the BuLLLock allows attaching to outside objects as well. Just locking a wheel is not enough. For sure.

Vit

Looks interesting but with an expensive bike I'd be worried that the thief would cut off the fork leg and take the rest of the bike. Replacement forks are pretty cheap.

Based on comments above it looks like your illustrations should show the bike locked to a rack or pole to make it clear how it secures the bike. Kickstarter might be a good way to judge market interest.

It attaches to any pole (at any angle) with thicknes within about 3 inches, so suitable for most parking places.

A lot of forks nowadays are made of carbon fiber and have fluted, oversized, and/or aero shape tubing. How is your mounting system going to mount on all of these different sized forks? The one you have pictured has a shape like a steel fork.

That's an issue indeed. The BuLLLock is problematic to use with this kind of forks (either doesn't fit or can damage the fork), the rest audience remains quite big anyway, I suppose?

I like it, thumbs up:thumb:

Many European utility bikes have a built-in lock that immobilizes the fork so the concept isn't new. Since this lock only immobilizes the front wheel and does not attach the bike to anything solid, all the thief has to do is pick it up and toss it in a car or truck. Motorcycles also have fork locks but they are generally too heavy to swipe easily.

Differing from e.g. Frame Locks (that just immobilize the bike) the BuLLLock allows for attaching to external object. Span of the lock's braket can be quite big, about 3 inches, what suffices in most situations.

Vit

Looks interesting but with an expensive bike I'd be worried that the thief would cut off the fork leg and take the rest of the bike. Replacement forks are pretty cheap.

Based on comments above it looks like your illustrations should show the bike locked to a rack or pole to make it clear how it secures the bike. Kickstarter might be a good way to judge market interest.

The BuLLLock is mostly against a casual stealing (most common and annoying threat). For a "professional" thief it's not a problem indeed, as well as majority of other locks.

Vit

.... Kickstarter might be a good way to judge market interest.

Kickstarter needs a good prototype and handwork. Unfortunately, my hands are made rather from clay :( . If anyone with golden hands would like to explore this opportunity and to invest his time and efforts, he is really welcome to the team (I'm the only one member of that team so far :)).

Vit

I like this concept. But a question: How is the lock secured to the hook? Is there a collar that clamps down when the key is rotated into position, or is there a catch that fits into one of the grooves on the hook?

My u-lock sits in my pannier and stays clean. A lock attached to my fork would get wet and dirty, which would then make my hands dirty when using it.

It seems only marginally easier to use than a u-lock if at all.

I would have to buy one per bike.

No thanks.

I like this concept. But a question: How is the lock secured to the hook? Is there a collar that clamps down when the key is rotated into position, or is there a catch that fits into one of the grooves on the hook?

The hook can be pressed (clicked) into the lock as far as possible to be closely attached to e.g. a pole (so less space for a thief to manipulate with the lock - advantage before many U-locks) and secured there. The key is needed only to get the hook out of the lock. The hook can be inserted into the lock and fixed there at desired position without the key.
This approach decreases quantity of operations and simplifies use of the lock what is really important for a Commuter.

Vit

My u-lock sits in my pannier and stays clean. A lock attached to my fork would get wet and dirty, which would then make my hands dirty when using it.

It seems only marginally easier to use than a u-lock if at all.

I would have to buy one per bike.

No thanks.

A note about dirt is very much reasonable and should be addressed somehow indeed (regular cleaning? Not sure). From other hand you don't have to put the lock through the dirty bike what is an advantage before a U-Lock (even a medically clean one :)).

As for the number of locks, two per bike would be better :) - the BuLLLock for the front fork and a Frame Lock for the rear wheel. This will compile a simple and quick to use solution that will protect frame and both wheels from casual stealing providing ability to attach the bike to an external object at the same time.

Vit

I have watched all the videos and seen so many ideas over the years and it boils down to just a few things. 1. The opportunist who sees a bike unlocked and needs a ride or sees a quick flip and grabs the bike and goes. In this case the newer bike he will take first but will just as well take a beater bike that’s unlocked. 2. Then there are the pros looking for quality bikes and also parts. They have all the powered equipment and can cut a lock or a cable or a frame or wheel in seconds and take whatever they can get. If you are looking to avoid having your frame cut in two you have little chance no matter what the lock is. 3. Is the amateur crook with a 30 buck pair of bolt cutters trying to get some drug money. When he sees he can’t get thru a locking system he’s likely to twist your frame or give it a wack just because.

The biggest thing IMO to safe guard a bike for a short time is crappy looking bike, good visibility, some simple deterrent, and maybe an alarm, silent or not or both built into the lock system that needs the key to kill it.

If stores etc. were bike friendly had indoor parking and or surveillance cams. They would pick up business from the biking community.

It’s sad but true have a crappy bike at least looking a half way good lock and mark down your numbers and add some markings to the bike in the event it’s found.

As to your design I like it. The people here many of them ride and secure some really good quality bikes and that raises some of the concerns you have seen. You could sell a billion of these if the price point was right thru Walmart. People buy kids bikes there every day and kids loose locks. This would work for the kid locking his bike up at school etc. and then he would lose the key. Dad would have the spare and it should come with 4 keys.

Good luck if this was the “Shark Tank” I would be in for 25%. 49% if you add a wireless remote alarm.

WhereI live, I'm OK with the Defender Ring lock and plug in to the lock with a pin chain that AXA (NL) makes .

My other Bike, I have an Abus ChainLock and Bordo Folding link Lock available.

I guess the concept was pulled. The link isn't working today.


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I guess the concept was pulled. The link isn't working today.

There should be some temporary glitch. It's working again: http://www.coroflot.com/vitgean/The-BuLLLock-locking-solution-for-the-Commuters

Vit

I like the concept, but the weak point might be, as stated above, the lock/fork blade interface IMO.

I like the concept, but the weak point might be, as stated above, the lock/fork blade interface IMO.

This observation makes perfect sense, especially when the fork is not cylindrical.

Vit

As for the number of locks, two per bike would be better :)

I mean that I have one U-lock that I use for whichever bike I am riding at the moment. I would have to buy four locks instead of one if the locks are attached to the bike.

I mean that I have one U-lock that I use for whichever bike I am riding at the moment. I would have to buy four locks instead of one if the locks are attached to the bike.

That's right, it's like every bike has got its own seat, though sometimes a single seat for several bikes can make sense. That's rather a matter of personal preferences.

Link worked this AM , a front lock , one issue I see is fork blades are tapered,
so vibration of riding or attempted pulling the wheel out might loosen the lock ,
unless tightened to the extent of crush deforming the tube of the fork blade.

Link worked this AM , a front lock , one issue I see is fork blades are tapered,
so vibration of riding or attempted pulling the wheel out might loosen the lock ,
unless tightened to the extent of crush deforming the tube of the fork blade.

This is a very reasonable observation indeed. The solution should better address this. Maybe some bosses inside the collar could help (though it might leave some marks on the fork blade if the lock is removed).

perhaps an OEM product , fork itself made to fit, bosses brazed on fork, before paint,
rather than clamp-on, an aftermarket part.

perhaps an OEM product , fork itself made to fit, bosses brazed on fork, before paint,
rather than clamp-on, an aftermarket part.

Yeah, sounds very logical as retrofitting might need a visit to a local bike repair shop.

The problem is the OP's lock isn't expensive enough and is not made of titanium..http://www.aspirevelotech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AVT&Product_Code=TL210&Category_Code=TIGR-BIKE-LOCKS

The problem is the OP's lock isn't expensive enough and is not made of titanium..http://www.aspirevelotech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AVT&Product_Code=TL210&Category_Code=TIGR-BIKE-LOCKS

Last few minutes I'm trying to imagine a manager in a suite driving to his bank in Amsterdam and then installing this lock. My imagination fails, sorry.

This observation makes perfect sense, especially when the fork is not cylindrical.

Vit
Seems like a properly sized diamond-shaped clamping surface like you show in the diagram with maybe a half-inch of closed-cell foam (sort of like a workstand clamp) would work for a large range of fork sizes & shapes. That would also protect the fork and minimize rattling. Would just need to be clamped down tightly enough that friction would prevent a thief from just sliding the lock off the fork.

I had a diamond shaped aero Bar clamp, it moves around , slipped,
until it compressed the aluminum handle bar to a shape like itself.

It's a decent idea but I would mount it on the non-drive-side seat-stay instead of on the fork for a few reasons.
1. Security - the bike cannot be stolen by simply removing or cutting the fork (or twisting the mount off of the bottom of the fork if mounted on a tapering fork).
2. Tube protection - seat stays on fewer bikes are made of carbon than are forks.
3. Bike support - most of the weight of the bike is towards the rear, so this is the part of the bike that needs more support to keep it standing up; the support is probably coming from the thing that you're locking it to, so it would be better to have this closer to the rear of the bike.

Non-starter: the lock must be locked by the operator into the stowed position to prevent it from rotating into the front wheel. Look at any place where multiple bikes are locked up and you'll see that many people just don't use locks very well. This design has no fail-safe position to prevent it being very dangerous or even fatal to the operator.

Non-starter: the lock must be locked by the operator into the stowed position to prevent it from rotating into the front wheel. Look at any place where multiple bikes are locked up and you'll see that many people just don't use locks very well. This design has no fail-safe position to prevent it being very dangerous or even fatal to the operator.

Yes, this risk exists. To prevent it there is a rectangular "collar" on the hook which fits into the corresponding deepening in the lock. In this case the hook can't rotate until the key is inserted and the hook is extracted.

I see a number of flaws:
- Forks are conical, not tubular and loaded clamps can work their way down, becoming looser and rotating into the wheel.
-On a crowded "toastrack" style Sheffield stand, you have to remove the whole lock from the mount, thread it through the stand, avoiding other bikes, position your bike to match up exactly the removable part with the mounted part.
-On removing the lock, you have to delve down between the bike and rack (in your suited arm). You cant free the lock from the offside.
-can it be used with lamp posts. U locks can use the thinner , upper section of a post.

I fit my U lock under a bungie chord, on top of my rear rack. It is secure, instantly available and as versatile as any u lock can be.

I see a number of flaws:
- Forks are conical, not tubular and loaded clamps can work their way down, becoming looser and rotating into the wheel.
-On a crowded "toastrack" style Sheffield stand, you have to remove the whole lock from the mount, thread it through the stand, avoiding other bikes, position your bike to match up exactly the removable part with the mounted part.
-On removing the lock, you have to delve down between the bike and rack (in your suited arm). You cant free the lock from the offside.
-can it be used with lamp posts. U locks can use the thinner , upper section of a post.


Yeah, those seem to be substantial flaws indeed. Looks like OEM suggestion by Fietsbob is the way to realize the supposed advantages of the approach with minimal trade-off...

Out of curiosity, what are the downfalls of regular u-locks you're trying to avoid?

Out of curiosity, what are the downfalls of regular u-locks you're trying to avoid?

IMO, the comparison chart below can be helpful (items in red). But apart of the "practical" issues there might be quite an important issue for the commuters - wishing to lock/attach their bikes with more style and dignity and with less risk to get dirty (like the frame lock). As the commuters usually park their bikes in relatively safe places, reasonable protection from casual stealing is enough - no need to carry big and heavy U-Locks or wind the bike with cables. That's what the BuLLLock is about (with all its own flaws :)). The U-Lock can be stored at home just in case of a travel to THOSE blocks.

286138

Out of curiosity, what are the downfalls of regular u-locks you're trying to avoid?

Just a follow-up:

Another point is TIME. Many bikes were stolen when their owners left them "just for 3 minutes" to buy something. I would suggest that one of the reasons was their reluctancy to mess with their U-Locks or Cables (and locking a wheel with e.g. a Frame Lock is not enough).

The BuLLLock is much quicker, so if you have to stop often, that could be a solution for you as well.

The BuLLLock is much quicker, so if you have to stop often, that could be a solution for you as well.
Don't see how the BuLLock is any quicker than a U Lock or cable. In casual locking situations (which is all this is really intended to address), a U Lock or cable around the top tube and whatever rack/post is available seems at least as quick and much more adaptable.

Yes, with some training using the U-Lock or Cable CAN be quick (chain with a padlock can be as quick as well :)). But.....

With respect, I don't get you. You initially post your concept, and ask our opinion about marketability. You get lots of opinions, mostly, like mine, negative, listing a variety of objections. Yet you persist in defending you concept, and arguing with those whose opinions you solicited in the first place.

Let's be straight, we don't have veto power over you going ahead, and if you believe in it enough, you'll probably go ahead if you want. But think about this; you're free to produce it, but if we're not liking it in the hypothetical, what makes you think we'll fall in love once it's made. The reality is that we'll vote with our dollars, and you'll be left hanging (IMO).

As I said in my first post here, there was a similar concept a few decades back. I've since remembered the name --- the Bolt---. I tried finding a photo or link, but it's been too long and I can't find anything. But it was a very short lived failure in the marketplace, probably for the same reasons mentioned here. I urge you to try to track the Bolt down, and compare it to yours, so you don't fall down the same rabbit hole.

If you can't find it on the net, you might call dealers in then Boston area, who might be able to give you real market based info, and possibly even have an old one collecting dust.