Tonight while out on my regular exercise ride in a residential area with streetlights, a small truck blew through a stop sign at the intersection to my right and ran into me nearly head-on, stopping just in time to keep me from performing the superman-in-flight manuver. Drivers are always blowing this sign, i have had a similar collision here once before, but the dude's bumper merely left a clean spot on my front tire in the earlier incident. So, I'm always looking down this sidestreet for the next jackaszz, and i completely saw this one coming, but this guy didn't even do the stop-pause, instead let off the throttle for an instant, hard left turn cutting the corner and almost straight into me. Nothing i could do, i was nearly stopped when he hit me.
There were no other vehicles within sight on the road at the time of the accident, so there were no distractions.
The driver was completely at fault, and due to his youthful naivete he openly admitted this to the officer who responded to my accident call. The driver was cited for failing to stop for stop sign.
My bike was lit in the front with an amber flasher, 20w 15 degree halogen MR11 headlamp (6v nominal overvolted to 7.2 v, with fresh charge), and 1w Luxeon headlamp flasher. The rear was lit with 2 Vistalite Eclipse red flashers attached to seatpost and rear of helmet. So i was fairly visible (for a bicycle) from front and rear, and not so much from the sides, since those LEDs are very directional with their effective illumination.
I demonstrated the lighting to the officers, they were satisfied that i was properly illuminated.
Thankfully I was uninjured, but my bike was damaged. The steel fork is bent backwards slightly and swayed a little to the right. The front wheel is in fair shape, probably salvageable with a good truing. The wheel is built with tied and soldered spokes, so maybe new spokes and hub are needed. Maybe a new wheel is in order. She's a little old, must have 17k mi on her. Rim probably getting old too.
I can't see any evidence of frame damage in the area of the top tube/head tube/down tube/. No misalignment or ripples in tube wall. I wonder if the headtube is twisted out of line with the main triangle frame, but can't tell since the fork is twisted to the right. I'm guessing some sort of frame alignment guage is necessary to determine if the headtube was tweaked.
Question: does a headset normally get damaged in this sort of collision? The headset is aluminum, C King. Feels like a slight play in headset when i lock the front brake, sit on top tube and rock back and forth. This could be due to stem slipped to the right in accident, and possibly loosened headset adjustment. I can see a slight gap between the top cup and the cap thingy, with fresh green Park grease filling the void. Might just be loose, but these things cost too much to just let it go without consideration.
Handlebar is kevlar, no cracks evident but i have not removed the stem plate for inspection. I believe these things have a good bit of give to them before they snap.
Did i miss anything in my inspection? Any additional areas that i should inspect for damage? Its dark here so i can't see so good until am.
Also, any advice from you that have had experience dealing with automobile insurance adjusters on a damaged bicycle? Don't wanna cheat them, but i don't wanna be cheated either.
Thanks in advance for any good advice.
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
You need to take it to a good shop and ge it fully inspected. they will be able to give a estimate to the insurance company. when I got hit the insrance company just paid the value of my bike if I sold it befroe it got hit. they did not want to risk the bike having problems down the line. but of course I just had it fixed as it just needrd a new fork and new front rim.
becnal
So i was fairly visible (for a bicycle) from front and rear, and not so much from the sides, since those LEDs are very directional with their effective illumination.
My advice is about lighting. You mentioned that you have lights on your bike, front and rear, as all bikes should.
You should also consider wearing a light on your head, like the kind that hikers use. It shines whereever you look. In the situation you were in last night, the driver would have seen you much better if you'd had one on. I got mine from a guy on ebay for about 15 bucks. It has 9 LED's, and also has a blinking mode. of course, I also wear a BRIGHT FLUORESCENT yellow jacket and blinking red LED's around my left arm. Wish I had a camera to show you how "attention-grabbing" my set up is.
I even got blinking blue LED's that screw onto my tire valves and blinking red LED's on the back of my baseball hat!
SamHouston
The simplest thing for the insurance company (and thereby you) is to cover the cost of the bike. Also better for raising junior stopsign blowers premium
powers2b
The insurance company will be very happy to cover the cost of a new bike in exchange for your signaure on a waiver that states you will forego your right to make later claims.
Just let them know how much a new bike will be (anything under 2K is usually not questioned).
This information is from personal experience and confirmed by fellow riders that have had similar incidences.
Enjoy
Joe S
Be aware of potential hairline frame fracture. This (may have) happened to me, and I didn't notice it for nearly 2 years, at which point the frame failed (no injuries). (Closer inspection may have revealed it sooner, but then again, maybe not.)
operator
Anytime a frame is involved in an accident. Especially like the one described and for the posters reason above (hairline fracture, stress etc.) i'd get it replaced. Especially if it's covered under insurance.
billh
I concur with the advice to take the bike to a shop and have a professional mechanic write up an estimate. This is analogous to damage to a car in an incident, you wouldn't write an estimate for your car, would you? When my bicycle was damaged in an accident, the drivers insurance also covered the cost of a rental bicycle until mine was fixed. In my case, I spoke directly with the drivers insurance adjuster (naively?). Later, I was told this is pretty risky to do without your own lawyer. However, I felt like I received a fair settlement. My understanding is that it's important to have your own lawyer if ther is substantial damage to your body, ie. medical claim. Also, it's not too uncommon for the driver to sue you for "damage" to the car, in which case, you would also need a lawyer.
If you have any soreness in your body at all, go see your doctor as soon as possible and have them document it. This isn't trying to scam insurance, it's protecting yourself. In the off-chance that injuries appear later, and they sometimes do, then you will have documentation.
Helmet-Head
Just curious. Help me understand how this happened.
You say he was doing a hard left, yet "cut the corner". Was he on a one-way street? If not, how did he "cut the corner" if he was turning left, from, presumably the right side of the road?
Were you approaching the intersection perpendicular to his approach, or oncoming?
If perpendicular, was he on your right, or left?
Was your street one-way or two-way?
Which side of the street were you on?
Assuming you were both on two-way streets, and he was turning left, approaching from a direction perpendicular to yours, how did the collision happen head-on?
2manybikes
All good suggestions. I agree.
If you are a new cyclist you need to adopt the attitude that you are invisible to cars. You need to assume that they will not see you at intersections even if they are looking right at you. When you finally reach a point where that is sub conscious and automatic you will be much safer. I would have assumed the guy was going to hit me, or at least run the stop sign, and waited until he passed by if it was at all possible. This is the same for motorcycles in traffic, it has taught me to be a better car driver too. From the motorcycle I had to finally assume at an intersection that everyone is going to drive right into me. It is has saved me countless times.
Helmet-Head
If you are a new cyclist you need to adopt the attitude that you are invisible to cars.
With all due respect, I strongly disagree with this advice, or at least the wording of it. Do not assume drivers see you. But assuming that you're invisible - that they can't see you and won't no matter what - is something else again. To illustrate the difference, consider riding at night dressed all in black from head to foot, on a black bike with no reflectors or lights and think about whether you would even get on the road, much less if you would ride any differently than you do, say, riding in daylight in bright clothes.
In the first case (dressed in black at night), I agree it's reasonable to assume that you're invisible, and to ride accordingly. But in normal conditions, including at night when you're properly equipped (lights/reflectors), I most certainly do not. But not assuming invisibility does not mean you can assume visibility either. Here, lane positioning plays a critical role, particularly with respect to choosing lane position such that you are riding where motorists are looking (not off to the side, especially at intersections, where motorists are not looking). Note that if you assume you are invisible, it makes no sense to ride where you are more likely to be noticed (if you assume you are invisible, you must assume you will not be noticed even there).
Serge
2manybikes
With all due respect, I strongly disagree with this advice, or at least the wording of it. Do not assume drivers see you. But assuming that you're invisible - that they can't see you and won't no matter what - is something else again. To illustrate the difference, consider riding at night dressed all in black from head to foot, on a black bike with no reflectors or lights and think about whether you would even get on the road, much less if you would ride any differently than you do, say, riding in daylight in bright clothes.
In the first case (dressed in black at night), I agree it's reasonable to assume that you're invisible, and to ride accordingly. But in normal conditions, including at night when you're properly equipped (lights/reflectors), I most certainly do not. But not assuming invisibility does not mean you can assume visibility either. Here, lane positioning plays a critical role, particularly with respect to choosing lane position such that you are riding where motorists are looking (not off to the side, especially at intersections, where motorists are not looking). Note that if you assume you are invisible, it makes no sense to ride where you are more likely to be noticed (if you assume you are invisible, you must assume you will not be noticed even there).
Serge
My wording was really poor. I do agree with riding in the visible part of the lane and lots of other points where you need to do something like that. Like not moving over out of sight to the right in a space when going along next to a row of parked cars on your right. I am a vehicular cyclist. I do ride in a more visible place when it is appropriate. I also have about 40 years driving a motorcycle in traffic. Many of the problems carry over into bicycling. I should have said something like.
Assume that you are invisible at intersections until you know otherwise.
Sometimes you can read a drivers actions and understand that he does or does not see you. Sometimes you get acknowledgement from a driver on his intentions. Sometimes you have to show your own intentions by deliberate easy to understand actions for the driver too. I also let the car go if there is no other circumstance that is a problem. In other words if there is no one around, you can't see the driver, and there's no one on your road, just stop and let him go if it's going to be close, especially if drivers usually run that stop sign. As usual a more complete explanation from Serge.
As I lurk these forums I see a lot of disagreements that start from incomplete information. It seems to me that a lot of the disagreements with Serge , end up being agreements when more details surface. It's hard to give lots of details in this format, a lot of typing is involved, and sometimes a long post turns people off. they just don't want to read it. I think this is true in life in general too.
I'm now thinking about one where the guy was going straight past a truck stopped on his right at a pretty fast pace through the intersection. I would have slowed down a little based on the stopping power of my bike or, stopping distance of my own vehicle, no other reason. I think that was what Serge was trying to get at? He questioned the riders speed at that time. It seemed that all the other cyclists disagreed. I tried to imagine myself actually doing that in my head, I wanted to slow and be ready for that guy to possibly shoot out in front of me. I would have at least put my hands on the brakes Is that about right Serge?
Helmet-Head
Thanks for the clarification 2manybikes. We agree 100%. That "assume you are invisible" advice is very popular. But if you think about the ramifications of riding accordingly (as if you really are invisible), it ironically encourages unsafe behavior. That's why it's a pet peeve of mine.
Serge
2manybikes
You remind me of another point.
I noticed the other day someone clearly stated they were a beginner asking for help. They just needed clarification. They recieved a lot of advanced cyclists points of view.
I am just as guilty of this as anyone.
It pays to be aware of your audience too.
Any way, good save Serge. I do not want to give the wrong impression.
Helmet-Head
I noticed the other day someone clearly stated they were a beginner asking for help. They just needed clarification. They recieved a lot of advanced cyclists points of view.
Like what?
We don't talk about good safety advice for advanced drivers that is not appropriate for beginning drivers, do we?
What cycling traffic safety advice would not be appropriate to give to beginning cyclists that is appropriate for "advanced" cyclists?
Dchiefransom
Thanks for the clarification 2manybikes. We agree 100%. That "assume you are invisible" advice is very popular. But if you think about the ramifications of riding accordingly (as if you really are invisible), it ironically encourages unsafe behavior. That's why it's a pet peeve of mine.
Serge
Maybe we should use "assume you're invisible" to really mean "assume the driver may not see you even though you're riding with dynamic lane positioning with bias toward center". :D
Helmet-Head
Hey, get with the program. I've condensed the name of the practice to "center-biased dynamic lateral lane positioning" (CBDLLP)! :)
2manybikes
Like what?
We don't talk about good safety advice for advanced drivers that is not appropriate for beginning drivers, do we?
What cycling traffic safety advice would not be appropriate to give to beginning cyclists that is appropriate for "advanced" cyclists?
Oh no. Nothing to do with this subject or your posts or anything connected. It was actually a mechanical question. Your better explanation of my post just reminded me that I need to be more careful in case a beginner is reading my post in other subjects as well. I was reading something the other day where an experience racer was giving a point of view to a beginner, there can be a big difference in point of view, and what to say. That's all.
"we" including me, have to be clear.
auroch
Don't forget when you are making your claim for other things
that may have been damaged in the accident. I had the ins.
co. pay for:
helmet (you never know)
jacket (scuffed on the elbow)
pants (scrapped knee)
shoes (paint from her car)
and a new bag (which got dirty)
all were significantly less than if I had been injured
Common ploy by the adjustor is to offer you 50% of
your claim. Remember the driver broke 100% of the law
and should pay accordingly. Good luck.
jeff
Dchiefransom
Hey, get with the program. I've condensed the name of the practice to "center-biased dynamic lateral lane positioning" (CBDLLP)! :)
I am SOOOOOO out of touch lately !!! :eek:
seeker333
becnal
i had 2 flashing lights on my head (helmet) at the time of the accident, in addition to 2 other flashers attached to f + r of bike and a pretty decent halogen headlamp rig.
a 1 watt luxeon LED flashing headlamp. this sucker will absolutely blind you at close range in the dark and projects a strong reflection off of stop signs ~100 yds distant in the dark. its main limit is the spread of the beam, leds, and luxeons in particular have a narrow beam width. i use this to "wake up" drivers who aren't seeming to move out of the center of the road.
also a vistalite eclipse red led flasher. i have tried 3 red blinkies and this one is the hands down brightest of them all.
i use nimh batteries in all lights and recharge every night for maximum output.
sitting on my workbench is a amber lensed xenon strobe that i intend to rig up to a new 13.2v system with MR16 headlamp (s). it take 5-14 vdc so could work on 6-7v systems too. check it out. it weighs nothing, plus you can pop off the amber lens for a clear xenon flash. this is a 360 degree radiation light. not the rotating reflecting dish type. so its mechanically simpler, and cheaper, plus gives it variable power input capability. i'm not strong electrically, but i imagine it takes more juice to power a little motor to spin the light. this strobe will obsolete my rear flashers, but i'll probably continue to use one on my helmet anyway.
http://www.seco-larm.com/SL126.htm
i have hooked it up for test, she's brighter than leds AND 360 degrees. i got this specifically due to the revelation that LEDS arent worth a hoot from side view, ie intersections. i intend to mount it to a seatpost mount or on top of a trunk bag (but i need a good rack first).
for headlamp i'm gonna try philips masterline 20w MR16. they claim it outputs equivalent to 35w. they also have a nominal 35w MR16 they claim is equivalent to 50w. i have seen specs on the lumens, it looks like this is true if you believe published specs. these come only in 8 and 36 degree beam, so i'll use 8.
also might try solux 35w 4700K MR16. dont have enough amp-hrs to run this sucker long though.
so, i've given this lighting thing a lot of thought, guess i was a bit slow in implementation.
my ultimate wish list is for a water bottle sized fission reactor power supply and a declassified military electromagnetic pulse weapon to scramble the cpu in these ****in motor vehicles. please let me know if you see any deals for them on ebay.
seeker333
serge
the accident occurred on 2 way road, at the intersection to another 2 way road. so no one ways here.
the intersection was ahead on my right. so motorist approached me generally to my right side, but collision actually occurred before i reached intersection.
motorist ran stop sign making a left turn. but instead of merging onto "my" road onto the normal right side (i'm in the states btw), he was aimed on the left side of my road, thus after he "cut the corner" he was heading straight for me, on the wrong side of road.
this is simpler to draw but difficult to explain.
seeker333
serge
seeker333
2manybikes
i DO assume i am invisible when i am riding. there have been several occasions where motorists approached me within a foot, at slow speed, basically on the wrong side of the road, and this all happened slow enough that i got to see their face, study their expression, and observe their sudden shock when they realized i was close enough to reach out and touch them, which i what i was stongly inclined to do at the time, but not in a friendly, loving manner.
to them i am certain it appeared that i was some sort of bicycling alien with super vanishing powers.
i ride the same 5.3 mile route through 3 adjacent residential subdivisions, crossing 2 highways each twice in this loop. the speed limit is 25mph. i ride 5 of every 7 days, usually 10 laps to hit my 50 mile goal. i average 11-14 mph, top speed 26mph down the big hill, so i'm not really flying around the neighborhood.
i ride in the afternoon and night. i try to take a pee break at twilight time, cause my pathetic lighting system only becomes effective when its dark, and at that time of day, also being when the 9to5ers race home, low winter sun etc, is extra risky.
i have been doing this for over 3 years. so anyone who lives here has probably seen me. from the rear. many times. cussin the whole time probably.
the young man who hit me has undoubtedly seen me many times, since he lives on my "loop". he had actualy passed me twice last night before the accident, both times in a somewhat reckless manner. shocking huh?
i dont try to be confrontational or impede their progress in any way. however, i do take the lane many times, as i feel it is the only way to guard my safety. i am certain motorists regularly misinterpret this action as some sort of aggressive posture.
i have had several verbal confrontations over the years, more than half of these folks never bother me again, so even though i think cussin someone out is unpleasant, it is effective in the long run for some people. many times i find these folks have the opinion that bicycles have no legal rights to the road (at least thats what they say). i always offer to call a sheriff's deputy to help educate them of the laws pertaining to bicycle use of roads, if they are not interested in hearing it from me. they usually run in their house and close the door. but they never bug me again.
i have been right hooked a couple times at the highway interesections, but no damage, except to the motorists ears. for some reasons drivers won't pass you in the 300 foot straigtaway that is 4 car-widths wide which precedes the upcoming highway intersection, but will go like mad to pass in the last 2 car lengths before the stop sign (uh, that is when they intend to stop). anyone who rides much is completely familiar with this craziness. so i take the lane at intersections, curvy sections and rough pavement areas.
well i could go on but its kinda pointless. i think 95% of regular bicyclists share the exact same body of knowledge on this subject, which was all learned through riding experience. so theres not much new to really say, is there?
Helmet-Head
Seeker, your drawing indicates the impact happened before you reached the intersection, and the driver was traveling on the wrong side of the road. If so, did he get cited for that too?
Where were you riding relative to the right edge (right next to it, a few feet away, out in the middle of the lane?)
seeker333
serge
your interpretation of drawing is correct.
driver was cited for failure to stop for stop sign only.
he was driving on wrong side of road immediately prior to collision.
i did not actually reach the intersection before collision occurred.
i normally ride in center of my lane. edge of roadway in residential areas is not maintained like highways, so it tends to have more dips/holes/cracks. also trash, glass, al cans, pet feces. also cars park on side of road at irregular intervals.
i want to maintain a line-of-sight between my lights and drivers eyes, so for all these reasons i normally ride in center of my lane. incidentally there is normally almost no traffic when i'm riding at night. typically i encounter 2-3 vehicles per 20 minute lap.
so i imagine i was in center of my lane at time of collision, although i may have headed for the curb at the last moment. frankly it happened so fast i just don't know.
i was expecting the driver to at least slow/pause at the stop sign. also expected him to turn right instead of left, which leads to highway 100 feet further down the road (in the direction i was travelling). i was wrong on both points. i also "hold back" some when i am approaching and i see those guys flying towards the sign to give them an opportunity to get by me. no point in pissing off a driver in a big hurry.
2manybikes
2manybikes
i DO assume i am invisible when i am riding. there have been several occasions where motorists approached me within a foot, at slow speed, basically on the wrong side of the road, and this all happened slow enough that i got to see their face, study their expression, and observe their sudden shock when they realized i was close enough to reach out and touch them, which i what i was stongly inclined to do at the time, but not in a friendly, loving manner.
to them i am certain it appeared that i was some sort of bicycling alien with super vanishing powers.
i ride the same 5.3 mile route through 3 adjacent residential subdivisions, crossing 2 highways each twice in this loop. the speed limit is 25mph. i ride 5 of every 7 days, usually 10 laps to hit my 50 mile goal. i average 11-14 mph, top speed 26mph down the big hill, so i'm not really flying around the neighborhood.
i ride in the afternoon and night. i try to take a pee break at twilight time, cause my pathetic lighting system only becomes effective when its dark, and at that time of day, also being when the 9to5ers race home, low winter sun etc, is extra risky.
i have been doing this for over 3 years. so anyone who lives here has probably seen me. from the rear. many times. cussin the whole time probably.
the young man who hit me has undoubtedly seen me many times, since he lives on my "loop". he had actualy passed me twice last night before the accident, both times in a somewhat reckless manner. shocking huh?
i dont try to be confrontational or impede their progress in any way. however, i do take the lane many times, as i feel it is the only way to guard my safety. i am certain motorists regularly misinterpret this action as some sort of aggressive posture.
i have had several verbal confrontations over the years, more than half of these folks never bother me again, so even though i think cussin someone out is unpleasant, it is effective in the long run for some people. many times i find these folks have the opinion that bicycles have no legal rights to the road (at least thats what they say). i always offer to call a sheriff's deputy to help educate them of the laws pertaining to bicycle use of roads, if they are not interested in hearing it from me. they usually run in their house and close the door. but they never bug me again.
i have been right hooked a couple times at the highway interesections, but no damage, except to the motorists ears. for some reasons drivers won't pass you in the 300 foot straigtaway that is 4 car-widths wide which precedes the upcoming highway intersection, but will go like mad to pass in the last 2 car lengths before the stop sign (uh, that is when they intend to stop). anyone who rides much is completely familiar with this craziness. so i take the lane at intersections, curvy sections and rough pavement areas.
well i could go on but its kinda pointless. i think 95% of regular bicyclists share the exact same body of knowledge on this subject, which was all learned through riding experience. so theres not much new to really say, is there?
I could not really picture what happened until you explained, and your diagram helps. Wow! What an incredibly bad driver. That's one of the worst maneuvers of all time. It's also clear that you were well lit up and easy to see too. I hope you recover all the damages you need to and it's not to much trouble on your part. Good luck.
noumena9
does anyone have links for where I can score blinky led valve covers too? WRT the accident, take the bike to a friendly shop and imply that you'd buy the replacement there... that should help.
billh
Don't forget when you are making your claim for other things
that may have been damaged in the accident. I had the ins.
co. pay for:
helmet (you never know)
jacket (scuffed on the elbow)
pants (scrapped knee)
shoes (paint from her car)
and a new bag (which got dirty)
all were significantly less than if I had been injured
Common ploy by the adjustor is to offer you 50% of
your claim. Remember the driver broke 100% of the law
and should pay accordingly. Good luck.
jeff
Personally, I think this sort of info is very interesting, ie. what sort of offers insurance adjustors have made for damage in cyclist v auto collisions. Maybe this deserves a thread on its own. I'm not that crazy about having to get my own lawyers every time I get hit. Be nice to know what the negotiation process is like if I want to deal with adjustors on my own.
MassBiker
With the help of Attorney Andrew Fischer, and expert bicycle mechanic Sheldon "Not the Guy on the Philadelphia Eagles" Brown, I wrote an article about what to do if you should crash that's been posted on the Massachusetts Bicycle Coalition's website.
You can read it at http://www.massbike.org/howto/crash.htm .
I tried to cover every base -- hope this helps!
seely
Something that REALLY helps visibility from the side for future reference is those "Tire Flies" that you see a lot of kids put on their cars on the valve caps. They are super bright flourescent lights activated by motion that screw onto a Schraeder cap. Get em at Autozone for like $3.99