Advocacy & Safety - Anti-bike opinion piece in local college newspaper

http://badgerherald.com/oped/2005/01/31/watching_the_wheels_.php

Casey Hoff is going off on the $110,000 budgeted for making a new road development safe for bicyclists. Also note that there there is a feedback form on the page. I have already made good use of it.

Flame it!

Well... looks like that author was quite throughly rebutted.

He reminds of college and those irritating, insipid and persnickety little "know-it-all" college republicans. Glad to see things have not changed much.

Was that you, galen, describing the baltimore area? I'd have to disagree-- Baltimore is pretty good for cyclists compared to many other urban centers.

Well... looks like that author was quite throughly rebutted.

He reminds of college and those irritating, insipid and persnickety little "know-it-all" college republicans. Glad to see things have not changed much.

Was that you, galen, describing the baltimore area? I'd have to disagree-- Baltimore is pretty good for cyclists compared to many other urban centers.


Are you serious? Colleges being full of young Republicans? LOL

Read the guy's other articles, they aren't right wing at all.

He just doesn't want to see the money spent on bike conveniences. Doesn't make him a rapid rightie.

When I lived in Madison, there were more bicycles than a lot of places in China, so it's no wonder the elected officials cater to cyclists. It'd be suicide not to! Right wing or not, the guy sounds like a weenie who's pissed cuz he has to pay for a parking garage.

If you post a comment on the site, be reasonable. Some of the pro-bike comments are obnoxious and unpersuasive. If I had written the column, they would harden my position. Just focus on the ideas, not the author.

When I lived in Madison, there were more bicycles than a lot of places in China, so it's no wonder the elected officials cater to cyclists. It'd be suicide not to! Right wing or not, the guy sounds like a weenie who's pissed cuz he has to pay for a parking garage.


I read his article mocking the sponge bob "gay pants" deal, and he came across as tolerant and funny.

What is "anti-bike" about this editorial?

What he says makes sense to me. Spending $110,000 on a bike lane as a symbolic gesture to cyclists (bike lanes actually do nothing to improve the safety of cycling, and, arguably, make it less safe -- see the opening post of the "My biggest concern with bike lanes" thread for more detail on this) is ridiculous.

What is "anti-bike" about this editorial?

What he says makes sense to me. Spending $110,000 on a bike lane as a symbolic gesture to cyclists (bike lanes actually do nothing to improve the safety of cycling, and, arguably, make it less safe -- see the opening post of the "My biggest concern with bike lanes" thread for more detail on this) is ridiculous.
I generally agree with you about bike lanes, but part of that $110K is to cover up a 1/4" crack. How big a part, I don't know. Fixing a road hazard is a good thing. And the writer ignorantly mocks this very dangerous hazard.

I generally agree with you about bike lanes, but part of that $110K is to cover up a 1/4" crack. How big a part, I don't know. Fixing a road hazard is a good thing. And the writer ignorantly mocks this very dangerous hazard.

You can't negotiate a quarter inch crack?
You shouldn't ride.

Give me a break. The impression I got from the editorial is that this "crack" is a pavement seam parallel to the direction of traffic. If that's correct, it's an accident waiting to happen. Either that, or it forces cyclists to ride far to one side or the other, effectively robbing us of part of the road.

And in cold-weather areas, 1/4" cracks don't stay 1/4" for long. There's one on one of my routes home. It started out as a minimal groove. It is now 1/4" to 1/2". No one can ride if their front tire gets stuck in one of these.

Are you serious? Colleges being full of young Republicans? LOL

Read the guy's other articles, they aren't right wing at all.

He just doesn't want to see the money spent on bike conveniences. Doesn't make him a rapid rightie.


No, not full of college repubs (thank god), just the irritating persnickety part....

Anyways, the responses made some very good points about how no one blinks an eye when truly astronomical sums are paid out for automotive convienences. It really is amazing that someone has the audacity to complain about bike-centric improvements that are literally a drop in the bucket money-wise but whose return on investment is potentially huge.

How cool is it that the mayor of Madison rides in Critical Mass?

Re: The cost. It simply shouldn't cost that much to create a bike lane, unless all the traffic needs to be thoroughly revised. Unless the cost is for repairing the crack, and unless the crack is substantially larger than described (which wouldn't surprise me, the author clearly has an axe to grind), it does seem like this money could be better spent, still on cyclists, in some other way.

I don't know Madison, and I don't know the issues, and I don't know the mayor, so I'm not going to comment on their forums. But for any other mayors out there who want to do good things for cyclists... I recommend consulting with the cyclists to see what's needed. Sometimes it might even be things motorists need too!

If the mayor of Seattle were to ask me what I would want improved, I would point to 8-10 instances of poor traffic-flow engineering: lights that are timed poorly or have strange logic behind them (or that exist where they're not needed, or don't exist where they are); lanes and roads that are consistently dangerous due to debris, speed of traffic on narrow lanes; nasty metal grates in the road with 1" gaps between grate and concrete; railroad lines 2" above the road surface, surrounded by rubble, etc. etc. Fixing many of these things would be good for cyclists and motorists. I imagine the same *could* be true in Wisconsin.

He just doesn't want to see the money spent on bike conveniences. Doesn't make him a rapid rightie.

I think it does, 'cause he can be more 'rapid' in his SUV than on a bike.....

j/k ;)

I think that whatever validity his points may have (and they may have some) was obscured by his inability to refrain from prejudicial comments such as "so that bicyclists don’t ride over the crevice, take a fall at 5 miles per hour, and rip a hole in their spandex or get a boo-boo on their arm" and "the people who eat too much granola and wear those ridiculous spandex shorts". He probably thought he was being funny, but the needless stereotyping undercuts the point he's trying to make, and causes him come across as just a Rush Limbaugh wanna-be with an axe to grind. Which may or may not be the effect he was going for. Furthermore, like Rush's commentary, it tends to promote more divisiveness than persuasion.

BTW, I was not able to read the comments, my browser just spun. Maybe their server's overloaded and I'll have better luck later.

Give me a break. The impression I got from the editorial is that this "crack" is a pavement seam parallel to the direction of traffic. If that's correct, it's an accident waiting to happen. Either that, or it forces cyclists to ride far to one side or the other, effectively robbing us of part of the road.

And in cold-weather areas, 1/4" cracks don't stay 1/4" for long. There's one on one of my routes home. It started out as a minimal groove. It is now 1/4" to 1/2". No one can ride if their front tire gets stuck in one of these.

Hmm, most seasoned commuters I read of go ahead and go to say 30-38mm "armadillo" style tire, or knobby. Much less likely to fall. 1/2 inch is still pretty tiny really.

Its not necessarily the case that a bike lane is always a bad idea. Anyone have satellite pics of the area in question?

Finally, if we are going to _really_ complain about tax money being wasted, we should first check up on pending highway construction projects.

How cool is it that the mayor of Madison rides in Critical Mass?

Re: The cost. It simply shouldn't cost that much to create a bike lane, unless all the traffic needs to be thoroughly revised. Unless the cost is for repairing the crack, and unless the crack is substantially larger than described (which wouldn't surprise me, the author clearly has an axe to grind), it does seem like this money could be better spent, still on cyclists, in some other way.

I don't know Madison, and I don't know the issues, and I don't know the mayor, so I'm not going to comment on their forums. But for any other mayors out there who want to do good things for cyclists... I recommend consulting with the cyclists to see what's needed. Sometimes it might even be things motorists need too!

If the mayor of Seattle were to ask me what I would want improved, I would point to 8-10 instances of poor traffic-flow engineering: lights that are timed poorly or have strange logic behind them (or that exist where they're not needed, or don't exist where they are); lanes and roads that are consistently dangerous due to debris, speed of traffic on narrow lanes; nasty metal grates in the road with 1" gaps between grate and concrete; railroad lines 2" above the road surface, surrounded by rubble, etc. etc. Fixing many of these things would be good for cyclists and motorists. I imagine the same *could* be true in Wisconsin.

I couldn't see the comments...maybe ya have to register? Not gonna

this could actually make the city money. people like to park in bike lanes. they could start issuing tickets for this. now you got a profitable investment.

Its not necessarily the case that a bike lane is always a bad idea. Anyone have satellite pics of the area in question?

Finally, if we are going to _really_ complain about tax money being wasted, we should first check up on pending highway construction projects.

Exactly... what is 110K compared to several millions for asphalt elsewhere.

Its not necessarily the case that a bike lane is always a bad idea. Anyone have satellite pics of the area in question?

Finally, if we are going to _really_ complain about tax money being wasted, we should first check up on pending highway construction projects.

http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=16&X=1529&Y=23859&W=2

The area in question is the square around the capital.

Hey recursive... you live in the area... how do you feel about the bike lanes and bicycle treatment in the area. Is it bike heaven or what?

I don't really see the problem with spending money on a bike path, especially on a college campus where people are poor and active enough to actually use bikes as transportation.

It sounds like there are actually lots of cyclists in that area, which is cool. I could understand his problem if he lived in a place like here where nobody rides bikes.

Any time a government spends money on anything, someone out there is going to think it's a waste. That's just the way it goes.

Hmm, most seasoned commuters I read of go ahead and go to say 30-38mm "armadillo" style tire, or knobby. Much less likely to fall. 1/2 inch is still pretty tiny really.


Not everyone can fit a tire that large on their bike. Neither of mine will take a 700X25 Armadillo.

It's far from the utopia many people say it is, but biking is relatively visible here. However, I still get honks on occasion, which I interpret to be lazy "Get out of the road"s. There are many nice bike trails in the area. Unfortunately, some of them are not plowed. Some are used heavily by rollerbladers and dog walkers and some are not. I don't want to get into an argument about bike lanes, but there are quite a few of them here, although some of them are in the door zone. But there are also quite a few nicely done bike lanes IMO. There are a few that are almost as wide as standard lanes. These are frequently shared with buses, but the bus traffic tends not to be very high in those areas in my experience. I don't know what the normal tendencies are, but I see other cyclists on my daily rides regardless of the weather or time, even in sub zero blizzards. There are also several nice LBSs in the area.

http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=16&X=1529&Y=23859&W=2

The area in question is the square around the capital.

It is probably justifiable-- and it will look nice if they also remove the street-side parking spaces along the square perimeter.

Hmm, most seasoned commuters I read of go ahead and go to say 30-38mm "armadillo" style tire, or knobby. Much less likely to fall. 1/2 inch is still pretty tiny really.
I ride 28's in the summer, 35 Nokians is the winter. I don't know why you think knobbies are better--slicks/road tires give the best traction on pavement.

Back to the subject. When you are dealing with a long pavement seam, the crack gets bigger and smaller. Even if a seam is 1/4" most of the way, a few inches of a 3/4" crack can break your collar bone. And in northern climates, the freeze/thaw cycle makes that inevitable.

Respect pavement seams and avoid them. They are almost as bad as parallel sewer grates.

I generally agree with you about bike lanes, but part of that $110K is to cover up a 1/4" crack. How big a part, I don't know. Fixing a road hazard is a good thing. And the writer ignorantly mocks this very dangerous hazard.
I missed the part about the crack. I agree belittling it was inappropriate, especialy if it is parallel to the path of travel, but I also can't imagine filling is that costly. Around here I see them fill cracks with some black ooze in minutes.

I missed the part about the crack. I agree belittling it was inappropriate, especialy if it is parallel to the path of travel, but I also can't imagine filling is that costly. Around here I see them fill cracks with some black ooze in minutes.
Filling it is one thing. Filling it and leaving a smooth surface is another. The most direct route I could take to work is so covered with rough pavement patches that you need a mountain bike just to go faster than 10-15 mph. When I want to get to work quickly, I take a different, longer route that ends up taking the same amount of time.

Quality work takes time and money.

This guy would never make in Delta House. Reminds me a young P J. O'Rourke who says of bikes:

The Principle Arguments That May be Marshaled Against Bicycles:

1. Bicycles are childish.
2. Bicycles are undignified.
3. Bicycles are unsafe.
4. Bicycles are un-American.
5. I don't like the kind of people who ride bicycles.
6. Bicycles are unfair.
7. Bicycles are good exercise.

This guy would never make in Delta House. Reminds me a young P J. O'Rourke who says of bikes:

The Principle Arguments That May be Marshaled Against Bicycles. . . .
Here's a link to the full O'Rourke essay (http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/misc/menace.html). Demonstrating his brilliance and foresight, O'Rourke, tongue somewhat-firmly planted in cheek, predicted that "the bicycle will be extinct within the decade." He made this prediction in 1987.

The Badger column looks like a third-rate parody of O'Rourke's essay (http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/misc/menace.html), which was itself a second-rate parody of Swift's "A Modest Proposal (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html)."

Here's a link to the full O'Rourke essay (http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/misc/menace.html). Demonstrating his brilliance and foresight, O'Rourke, tongue somewhat-firmly planted in cheek, predicted that "the bicycle will be extinct within the decade." He made this prediction in 1987.

The Badger column looks like a third-rate parody of O'Rourke's essay (http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/misc/menace.html), which was itself a second-rate parody of Swift's "A Modest Proposal (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html)."

Never read the whole essay before. Very funny.

And then, when people complain about the outrageous taxpayer expense of this endeavor, I respond by playing dumb and say that the cost “was a surprise to me when I learned about it a few weeks ago,” but I decide to go through with the expensive plan anyway.

In spite of all the good that was done, this does sound a little fraudulent to me.

If a repairman said something like that to me after fixing something on my home, I'd have him arrested.

In spite of all the good that was done, this does sound a little fraudulent to me.

If a repairman said something like that to me after fixing something on my home, I'd have him arrested.

Oh com'on, he is a politician... they do this all the time... Look at the bill for the war in Iraq as an example... I believe that new funds were just asked for...

In spite of all the good that was done, this does sound a little fraudulent to me.

If a repairman said something like that to me after fixing something on my home, I'd have him arrested.
they do this all the time...
And that makes it less fraudulent or less immoral or less repugnant.... how?

http://badgerherald.com/oped/2005/01/31/watching_the_wheels_.php

Casey Hoff is going off on the $110,000 budgeted for making a new road development safe for bicyclists. Also note that there there is a feedback form on the page. I have already made good use of it.


As a UW Mad grad ('82), in the process of moving back to Madison (still a great place to be), I am really blown away by the change in philosphy/attitude toward bicyclists, pedestrians, mass transit, etc.; my how times have changed in the Mad City. I hope that Casey and all of those near and dear to him(her ?) enjoy the chaotic cesspool that they will grow old in (if they make it that far).

msm
Northern IL

And that makes it less fraudulent or less immoral or less repugnant.... how?

Nope, but it is standard operating proceedure. Best start rounding up all the politicians. You can start with the local mayor and work your way up the chain.

I suppose this is just another item on your list of reforms.

You have a lot of work to do.

I'm going to have to go over to the capital area this weekend and check it out. I ride around the square sometimes when I'm going downtown and have never thought that it was a lacking area, as far as bicycle transportation goes.

As far as the bike paths getting plowed before streets, I haven't found that to be the general case. Perhaps sometimes in some locations, but not often.

Hmm, most seasoned commuters I read of go ahead and go to say 30-38mm "armadillo" style tire, or knobby. Much less likely to fall. 1/2 inch is still pretty tiny really.
Are all cyclists commuters?

Whether you agree with his ideas or not, his op-ed was appallingly bad and immature. The guy's a Rush wannabe.