Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Why steel?

I read that most posters in the SS&FG forum prefer steel (Cromoly) over aluminum frames but can't find why.

Could someone fill me in? I'm looking at getting my first SS bike to try.

Thanks,
Greg

I don't think that's really true.

Aluminum bikes develop alzheimer's and wander away from home. Steel bikes raid your purse for weed money. Pick your poison.

Don't focus on the material, focus on the ride. Unless you're planning on buying from BD or some other online source, go for some test rides at the LBS.

Only poseurs still ride steel these days. Clearly I am a poseur.

i just don't like the looks of wide al tubes

Here OP, read up on this:

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

/thread.

OK, so a typical mountain of snark. Steel is supposed to be cushier over bumps than aluminum.

I think some of the replies were to indicate, hey, i'm riding Alu and it doesn't suck... but i'm hard pressed to tell.

steal is reel

No feelz in steelz brah.

Steel or Aluminum, whatever as long as it gets me down the road and doesn't disintegrate on me. If it is your first SS bike go with whatever you like, just understand the construction of your bike and what it is intended for. I have steel and aluminum framed bikes and I have no preference for one material or the other. All I know is that I can stick magnets to one and not the other.

Steel is more forgiving for custom builds, you can bend it, you can weld it, and it will most likely hold, where aluminum would probably fail? For example when using a 120mm hub on 130mm steel frame, you can cold set the rear spacing to 120mm.

No big deal one way or the other. A steel or plastic coat hanger will hold up a cheap or expensive suit just the same.
Having a few miles on both, steel is what I prefer. People have lots of reasons why they dont like alu frames, for me its that they sound like a whole bunch of 70's Kung Fu movie or SyFy channel sound effects while in motion.:) Silence Glasshoppah.

I think you misread the forum incorrectly.

We don't prefer steel, we prefer to steal. Subtle. But impactful.

Some of it has to do with price. People with a 3-$400 frame budget can usually get a better quality steel frame. nice steel>cheap alu

Most conversion-worthy horizontal dropout frames are older steel frames. That's how many get started with riding fixed and then stick with the material they know.

Unlike just about any other category of bike out there, the cheapest off the rack FG bikes are steel instead of aluminum.

If there was sudden demand for cheap aluminum track bikes, someone would step up with a bike, but the fashion/trend among fixerati is still predominantly steel. Until and unless that changes, expect to keep seeing lots of steel FG bikes.

Steel and aluminum frames are both cheap to manufacture and are therefore the most common materials from which modern bikes are made.
However steel is the traditional material from which bike frames have been made for more than 100 years. For that reason, steel frames have a classier, more traditional appearance, especially if built with lugs and narrow tubes. Because aluminum is a softer weaker material, the tubes must have wider diameters to achieve sufficient strength and rigidity and therefore do not look like a traditional bike. Many aluminum frames are rather ugly and utilitarian in appearance with big welds, though not all.

Many people convince themselves that steel rides better...but the mythic ride quality of steel that people often wax poetic about is mostly self-deception. Because steel is more resitant to metal fatigue, steal frames can be built to be less rigid than aluminum frames without sacrificing durability. But most riders can't really feel the difference in frame material. (Tire pressure and frame geometry make a lot more difference). The truth is you can achieve a wide variety of ride characteristics from either material depending on how the frame is designed. The noodliest frame I have ever ridden was an aluminum road frame. The stiffest was a steel track bike.

Mostly, peoples preferences are about fashion. In other cycling subgroups other materials (carbon, ti) are more often preferred to steel.

Sometimes I imagine that production-line carbon can be made for about the same money as aluminum or steel when it comes to bikes.

I've yet to verify, though.

Sometimes I imagine that production-line carbon can be made for about the same money as aluminum or steel when it comes to bikes.

I've yet to verify, though.

Or less, I suspect.

steal is reel

/thread

Sometimes I imagine that production-line carbon can be made for about the same money as aluminum or steel when it comes to bikes.

I've yet to verify, though.


Or less, I suspect.

I concur. Hardly any waste in terms of raw materials if you don't screw up. But if you do screw up you cant undo like you can with metal (taking things apart). So once you get production figured out its money. Chinese money, but money.

thin tubes=sexy tubes.
aesthetically, i prefer the look of a thin steel tube vs that of a thick aluminum tube.
also, dampening qualities of steel > aluminum.

thin tubes=sexy tubes.
aesthetically, i prefer the look of a thin steel tube vs that of a thick aluminum tube.
also, dampening qualities of steel > aluminum.

re-bar bike ftw?

It's also nice to be able to repair a steel frame. I've added cantilever posts, re-brazed a seat stay back onto a seatlug, and am currently preparing to replace a broken head tube on my Motobecane townie. Aluminum would be a lot harder to repair and would then have to be heat treated again. Not too feasible for most.

and...
generally when you dent a steel frame, you can still (steel?) ride it.
aluminum, it's a different story....people do, but it would gimme the heebie-jeebies.

re-bar bike ftw?
Yes

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m72jj1orAW1rb5cnyo10_1280.jpg

Carbon can be repaired, it's very nice.

Yeah, but his point was that YOU can't repair it.

That's not entirely true.

I'd wager it takes about the same knowledge/capital costs to repair carbon as it does steel. It's just perceived as being more difficult since almost any community college will teach someone the basics of brazing, welding and other forms of steel fab while very few deal with fiber/composite fab or repair.

So it's an issue of perceived barriers to entry, not actual availability of material or knowledge for repairing carbon.

IMO.

IIRC: aluminum is more expensive to mine than it is to recycle

not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in china

^^^ This is true. Much more energy intensive to turn Bauxite into Aluminum than to simply recycle.

Also, carbon fiber repair seems too meticulous and boring. Give me some fire and hot metal to work with! I have a carbon hardtail MTB with a broken seat stay I've considered repairing but carbon fiber frames have very little appeal to me as a total retro grouch.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WRDEu1rrcM&feature=share&list=UUL4VnldL36a5cRT-78wyNYQ

I was bummed to be working on a Chinese GT in the shop the other day. It was a pretty sweet little steel MTB, especially for the MSRP of only $259. Crappy Altus triggers were toast, so I put some olde shimano thumbshifters on there.

HiTen fork and rear triangle, CrMo mains. And Jou Yu hubs!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8500/8256986764_f43b7fc6f9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lesterofpuppets/8256986764/)
2012-12-08_13-17-14_157 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lesterofpuppets/8256986764/) by Lester.L. (http://www.flickr.com/people/lesterofpuppets/), on Flickr

It's true that I prefer steel because of its workability and repairability. Two of my steel frames are modified - one had track ends added in place of dropouts and one had the rear widened to take a fatter tire. When my trusty road bike finally cracks (Columbus SLX might outlive me) I'll get it repaired. Try that with Aluminum.

I will never ride an aluminum bike. I prefer steel to any other material. I just got into my third accident since summer, and my bike made it fine. If I had an aluminum frame, it might not have.

wut

I had an Aluminum Trek. That thing was tough as nails.

Thanks for the replies.

My question comes from reading the sticky threads for newbie SSFG riders concerning entry level bikes.

Baxtefer posted:
Specialized Langster
it's aluminum.
people here hate aluminum

I'm looking at getting an ENTRY level SSFG to see if I like it so, I had been lurking in the sticky advise threads.

It looks like I'll probably end up with something from SGV or someone like them. If not Bikes Direct. Looking at under five hundred bucks. None of the 600 folks in my town owns a bike shop and CL is filled with nothing but big box bikes so your input is what I have to go on.

Thanks, Greg.

In that case material probably doesn't matter.

I have an aluminum mountain bike that rides fantastic. I have two steel mountain bikes (one lugged) that ride awesome. I had an aluminum roadie with carbon fork/ rear triangle that road great. I had a carbon fiber roadie that made me feel sexy and road great. Now my main roadie is cromo with lugs and it a joy to ride.
I think my favorite bikes are my lugged roadie and lugged mtb. I could hop on the bandwagon and talk about ridalility, durability and workability with no problem. I especially feel extra safe when riding a bike with lugged joints. However, the reason I like those bikes is because of their aesthetics. I just think lugged steel bikes look elegant and refined when compared to the cartoonish look of carbon fiber.
I think that the majority of the folks on this forum are incredibly passionate about their biking. I would go so far to say that each time we go out to ride we go out and "represent"- what are we saying about the bike we ride and the stuff that's on it.

Who am I kidding? My philosophical digression means nothing in the end. Get a bike and ride it!

BTW, do not be afraid of Bikes Direct. I got my alum mountain bike through them and it's been awesome. Their bikes are just generic packages of similar name-brand bikes. For example: my Windsor Comp 29er is really the Fuji Comp 29er only it costs like $500 less.

My Langster(Aluminum) is my rain bike. Living in Florida the salty air eats steel bikes and poops sand. Ride both and see which one you like better.

Do you want a bike that absorbs the road or one that vibrates it up into your head? I like the vibrations. :thumb:

I've ridden on double-centuries on a CAAD9-5 and a Handsome Devil. You can feel the difference in the long run between steel and aluminum but you can easily add dampening through other means.

I have 2 cro-mo bikes, sold another one that was 39 years old (and still better than anything I've seen) and can honestly say that I'm just a retro-grouch who always feels like aluminum will fail my fat ass long before a quality steel frame will.

Just my 2c.

Thanks for the replies.

My question comes from reading the sticky threads for newbie SSFG riders concerning entry level bikes.

Baxtefer posted:
Specialized Langster
it's aluminum.
people here hate aluminum

I'm looking at getting an ENTRY level SSFG to see if I like it so, I had been lurking in the sticky advise threads.

It looks like I'll probably end up with something from SGV or someone like them. If not Bikes Direct. Looking at under five hundred bucks. None of the 600 folks in my town owns a bike shop and CL is filled with nothing but big box bikes so your input is what I have to go on.

Thanks, Greg.

Something very passive and consumer-oriented about going out and BUYING a ss/fixie. If you were genuinely cool, you would build your own. There are two approaches:

1. Scrounge up a cheap track frame and put brakes on it. Put on a road bb and cranks, mount the chainring on the inside, fiddle with the rear hub to get 120 spacing and space it to get a decent chainline.

2. Scrounge up an old road frame with horizontal dropouts. Get track wheels and cold-set the stays to get 120mm spacing. Install track bb and cranks, and add brakes.

Or a variation of either. The important thing is that you need to build it yourself. I realize there are a lot of ready-to-roll fixies on dealer showroom floors these days, but it's way more preferable to be riding one you put together yourself. I scoff at these guys who ride these boutique fixies. Bah!

Luis

The important thing is that you need to build it yourself.

Huh???????

I build Stratocasters and my customers love them, that's easy------I put myself through college as a Porsche mechanic and don't have a lot of trouble bolting things together. My Strats are as fine as any built anywhere, and set-up far better than most. But, Fenders are nuts and bolts.

I PLAY Les Paul's. I'm not a luthier so I buy them from Gibson. I don't FEEL any loss of anything having bought the guitar rather than building it. I just tune it and play it. Gibsons are crafted by masters and I am just a mechanic.

I am new to bikes but I fail to see what the difference would be between me bolting one together and the folks at SGV bolting it together other than I don't know how to set it up and I could be riding rather than fiddling with it. Bikes are nuts and bolts and I don't think I could add anything to it by turning the wrench myself.

A single-speed conversion is far from a highly-refined, artisanal instrument. You may not find bicycle mechanics useful, but to many people, like myself, it is a great introduction to general mechanics.

I think the movement of SSFG started as a low-budget, DIY approach to cheap transportation and fun. People converted old steel road bikes into simple, efficient rigs and built a community around it. As with most subcultures, overemphasis of certain aspects (first NJS components, then composite wheels, then color-coordination, etc.) eroded the initial premise and largely ruined the originality, transforming it into an easily marketable commodity. Purchasing a ready-to-go SSFG deprives many kids from being forced to learn much about mechanics, and probably doesn't foster a long-term involvement in bicycling the way converting your own bike might (which I consider the origin of my interest in mechanics and self-empowerment). Having been a BFSSFG member for the past six years, I have noticed the decline in mechanical inquiries and their replacement with questions of aesthetics. I remember [165]'s BB overhaul http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-208402.html, among other DIY repair tutorials, being part of a great resource thread stickied at the top of the forum, along with Sixty Fiver's Gearing Primer, etc. Why did that disappear? Now it seems this forum is inundated with highschoolers asking what we think of Big Shot Bikes and Purefix.

/grizzled rant

Purchasing a ready-to-go SSFG deprives many kids from being forced to learn much about mechanics, and probably doesn't foster a long-term involvement in bicycling the way converting your own bike might (which I consider the origin of my interest in mechanics and self-empowerment). Having been a BFSSFG member for the past six years, I have noticed the decline in mechanical inquiries and their replacement with questions of aesthetics. I remember [165]'s BB overhaul http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-208402.html, among other DIY repair tutorials, being part of a great resource thread stickied at the top of the forum, along with Sixty Fiver's Gearing Primer, etc. Why did that disappear?

It's not that I don't care about the mechanics of a bike, it's that they are quite simple mechanical devices that pose no problems to repair so long as you can remember how three or four screws came out to replace them in the correct order, and there are no adjustments that REALLY require dial indicaters unless one becomes super anal. It's not like you're setting the cam timing on a 930.

The sticky threads are the most useful ones here. The BB example you gave is perfect. To me the list of needed tools is the most helpful------I can have what I need at hand without having to order one and wait to get it.

Your "interest in mechanics and self-empowerment" is a rare trait in these times. Not many of the "kids" around here have any developed mechanical ability beyound that which is required to push buttons on a video game controller.

Actually, I don't know if you are really a kid or not. I'm 58. When I graduated HS in 1973 all of my friends and I changed the oil in our cars, sharpened Dad's lawnmower blades and even cut the grass. I know that it doesn't happen a lot around here anymore.

But, I did not walk three miles to school barefoot in the snow everyday. Those were hardtimes before me!!!

Edit: Woops, I just noticed that the DIY threads are condensed and buried in the "Start Here" sticky. Sorry for being so grumpily sleep-deprived.

I'm 25, Greg. But I guess I'm just preaching to the choir about mechanics.

In all seriousness, most of the SS offerings from Bikes Direct at $300-$400 are adequate entry level bikes. I owned a Windsor Hour a few years ago and it was a fine bike, except for the cheap pedals, and cheesy quill stem with extra wide drop bars. You probably wouldn't notice much difference in ride quality between the steel and aluminum frames on this quality of bike compared to changes in tire pressure. Just make sure you use a fit calculator to get the correct size.

I had always assumed that you need higher end aluminum and maybe a carbon fork to get rid of the harsh ride while cheap steel would generally ride better if a little heavy and less subtle.

Best riding bike I ever had was a 1970s lugged Italvega frame with nice steel Columbus tubing. Too bad it didn't fit.

Fit probably more important than material when it comes down to it but I'd always choose steel over aluminum all other things being equal which they never are.