Commuting - close call

I have had plenty of people turn in front of me right after passing (right hook) and turn in front of me when turning left across my lane (left hook), but today may have taken the cake. I had just passed a city bus, and was 1/4 mile from my work place. One more street to pass, and I turn onto the property. That last street has a stop sign, and a large white truck is rolling up to it, like I have seen 1000s of vehicles do before. I am going 23 mph, trying to keep ahead of the bus that is back there somewhere. As I enter the intersection, I realize this truck is not stopping, but turning right in front of me. Fortunately, no cars are coming in the 2nd lane, so I am able to go around this clod and not get hit from behind. Also Fortunately, the bus likely stopped at the bus stop a block back, so he was not there to run me down either. I got the feeble wave from the driver and off he goes. I wish I had a picture of my outfit, but I am wearing a high viz reflective vest (xinglet) and have my magicshine knock off headlight on flash. Can't understand how I was not seen, but I know that is how it goes sometimes.

Glad to be alive and in one piece still, just had to vent a bit.

No rear view mirror? Glad you're okay. I can't stand City traffic even in a car; I don't think I could ever work up the courage to ride fast, or even ride at all in the City... The suburban "Cities" where I live don't count! ;)

Its happened to me in the urban areas so I try to keep my speed down so I can stop quickly if needed. I don't think that they don't see us but they are preoccupied and just have turning right on their mind after we are out of view behind them. As for those left hooks, no excuse for that whatsoever, they can plainly see us coming down just like a car would be.

Had a genius nearly run me over after he ran a stop sign. Guess it's time to invest in an extra 350lumen of light.

Glad you're ok. These incidents tell us not to be complacent and think that all drivers will behave as expected. I know what you mean about being distracted by a bus that is catching you up.

-G

Do you have a helmet light? Mine has saved me several times when drivers haven't seen my bar mounted & fork crown mounted lights. They've even commented on how they would not have seen me except for the helmet light. All 3 are similar brightness as far as being seen.

No rear view mirror? Glad you're okay. I can't stand City traffic even in a car; I don't think I could ever work up the courage to ride fast, or even ride at all in the City... The suburban "Cities" where I live don't count! ;)

Interesting. Here, I'd rather ride downtown than in the subburb any day, any time. There's a whole different mindset between them. In the burb, I run lights and flashers, Hi-Viz, and cameras.. downtown I don't bother except for the basics.


OP, glad you're safe.

Do you have a helmet light? Mine has saved me several times when drivers haven't seen my bar mounted & fork crown mounted lights. They've even commented on how they would not have seen me except for the helmet light. All 3 are similar brightness as far as being seen.

Thanks for pointing this out. I do not have a helmet light, and I can see how this could have helped, especially with the guy sitting so high off the ground in a truck. Not sure I would have had it on during the day time though, I would have thought a flashing BRIGHT light on my handlebars would be sufficient during the day.

Glad you're ok. These incidents tell us not to be complacent and think that all drivers will behave as expected. I know what you mean about being distracted by a bus that is catching you up.

-G

Yes, that is part of the reason I posted this, is to not get complacent. 99% of the time I am not, but this 1% nearly cost me dearly.

Interesting. Here, I'd rather ride downtown than in the subburb any day, any time. There's a whole different mindset between them. In the burb, I run lights and flashers, Hi-Viz, and cameras.. downtown I don't bother except for the basics.


OP, glad you're safe.
Thanks, me too. My "downtown" is nothing like a real big city. Everything here is more suburbs of LA than anything. I am actually more cautious in the high density areas, just because there are so many other things for drivers to look at. Where I was today, there is really no distractions, just an open field on one side, and hedges blocking the airport on the other side.

Thanks, me too. My "downtown" is nothing like a real big city. Everything here is more suburbs of LA than anything. I am actually more cautious in the high density areas, just because there are so many other things for drivers to look at. Where I was today, there is really no distractions, just an open field on one side, and hedges blocking the airport on the other side.

A cell phone could provide sufficient distraction for a driver to do what happened. Have you read The Art of Urban Cycling (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/242240.The_Art_of_Urban_Cycling)? You probably already know most of this, but it's a good read just to remind yourself of what can/will happen.

For myself in your situation, I might have let the bus stay ahead of me rather than be concerned about staying fast enough so he won't run me down. (But then I can't do 23mph either ...)

A cell phone could provide sufficient distraction for a driver to do what happened. Have you read The Art of Urban Cycling (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/242240.The_Art_of_Urban_Cycling)? You probably already know most of this, but it's a good read just to remind yourself of what can/will happen.

For myself in your situation, I might have let the bus stay ahead of me rather than be concerned about staying fast enough so he won't run me down. (But then I can't do 23mph either ...)
thanks for the tip on the book, to bad it is not available anywhere close by at the library. Seems like it may be worth the investment to buy though, cheaper than a headstone. - edit - Kindle edition of The Art of Cycling is very available . . .

I agree, in most every close call I have had, I am a part of the problem. Had I not been going hard, I would have been more cautious around the truck and avoided the close call all together. Just part of my humanity I guess. . . .:(

If you think that you need a flasher on your seat post, both seat-stays AND the back of your helmet along with a highway flaggers safety vest to the rear you are thinking like the typical cyclist. Most of my cycling friends think like this. I have been riding longer since before flashers were invented than since and I have never been hit or hooked. If you think that is because no one has ever tried you would be wrong. If you think it is because they didn't see you, you would be wrong. They SEE you! What they DO with that knowledge depends heavily on the vehicle culture there. In NYC it is a given that a motorist with a green light or arrow is going to go charging across the intersection. He will hit you if you are anywhere in his path. Don't be there. In Portland and the suburbs, drivers wait when they see cyclists. Cyclists get used to this and... along comes a driver having a bad day or an out of towner and... blammo... don't trust them. I wear bright stuff and I have the minimum requirement of things that flash on my bike but I also have developed that sixth sense that says that that car sliding up on your left side is going to try and cut you off at the turn... right hook you in other words. He SEES you, he also thinks he can get around you because he is so much faster than you. Don't let it happen. If they get to the corner before you do, even if they don't, be very prepared to scrub off a lot of speed. It doesn't seem that hard. I do it automatically but just the other day a couple of friends of mine trashed their very expensive Santana tandem plowing into an SUV that right hooked them. They have as much experience as I do and their tandem cost 10x what either of mine cost. Ya think they'd be invested on keeping themselves safe. A drunk running a stop sign is something I worry about now and then. Sadly that isn't how many of you got taken down. Right and left hooks just shouldn't take down as many of us as they do. Remember. They see you! They may turn anyway. Don't let that throw you.

H

thanks for the tip on the book, to bad it is not available anywhere close by at the library. Seems like it may be worth the investment to buy though, cheaper than a headstone. - edit - Kindle edition of The Art of Cycling is very available . . .

I agree, in most every close call I have had, I am a part of the problem. Had I not been going hard, I would have been more cautious around the truck and avoided the close call all together. Just part of my humanity I guess. . . .:(



Least you are aware of your side :)

A lot of it comes down to speed, They see bike and they don't factor in the speed at which we can move. Have had some close calls in the past where i have been told . They saw me coming but didn't think i was traveling that fast .

Glad you're ok. These incidents tell us not to be complacent and think that all drivers will behave as expected.
-G

Agreed on this. A few weeks ago, had a car blow through a 2-way stop sign at ~40 mph. I had the right of way and no stop sign, but kept the speed down as I approached the intersection - grabbed the brakes and stared at him in disbelief as he shot through the intersection. Have seen enough distracted drivers on my commute that I just assume every car I see isn't paying full attention to their surroundings. Has saved me several other times as well...

I've had the same experience, although I have always managed to simply brake out of trouble since I anticipate that the motorists I encounter are either stupid or full of malice. When I have caught up to the truck drivers who have done this, invariably the reason they pulled out was that they misjudged my speed. They're used to cyclists who toodle along at 10 mph, and someone riding 20-30 mph just doesn't register for them.

I've even had car drivers do this to me when I'm driving a truck. Yes, they pull out in front of 80,000 pounds of death because they are not able to accurately judge the speed.

I've had the same experience, although I have always managed to simply brake out of trouble since I anticipate that the motorists I encounter are either stupid or full of malice. When I have caught up to the truck drivers who have done this, invariably the reason they pulled out was that they misjudged my speed. They're used to cyclists who toodle along at 10 mph, and someone riding 20-30 mph just doesn't register for them.

I've even had car drivers do this to me when I'm driving a truck. Yes, they pull out in front of 80,000 pounds of death because they are not able to accurately judge the speed.

Its worse than that. I think they pull out because they want to leave, and assume that the other guy will slow down.

I have had plenty of people turn in front of me right after passing (right hook) and turn in front of me when turning left across my lane (left hook), but today may have taken the cake. I had just passed a city bus, and was 1/4 mile from my work place. One more street to pass, and I turn onto the property. That last street has a stop sign, and a large white truck is rolling up to it, like I have seen 1000s of vehicles do before. I am going 23 mph, trying to keep ahead of the bus that is back there somewhere. As I enter the intersection, I realize this truck is not stopping, but turning right in front of me. Fortunately, no cars are coming in the 2nd lane, so I am able to go around this clod and not get hit from behind. Also Fortunately, the bus likely stopped at the bus stop a block back, so he was not there to run me down either. I got the feeble wave from the driver and off he goes. I wish I had a picture of my outfit, but I am wearing a high viz reflective vest (xinglet) and have my magicshine knock off headlight on flash. Can't understand how I was not seen, but I know that is how it goes sometimes.

Glad to be alive and in one piece still, just had to vent a bit.OP glad you're OK! The cool thing is that you are very aware of what's going on around you while you're riding. Good job. Those trucks are gonna keep pulling out, and those buses are gonna keep trailing us but if you stay sharp you'll tilt the odds. :)

t Just part of my humanity I guess. . . .:(

Yes, isn't it? I've been in that situation and worse, kicking myself for not having avoided an accident. You won't avoid these things completely, but if you are willing to take each near-miss, miss or complete disaster as a learning lesson... well that's all you can hope for.

Live and learn.

Interesting. Here, I'd rather ride downtown than in the subburb any day, any time.

+1

I feel much safer elbow to elbow with traffic downtown (New Orleans) where cyclists are generally considered part of the traffic flow than in any suburb where bikes are considered toys. Also, motorists in The Grid at rush hour have places to go, so the inconvenience of actually hitting a cyclist or ped is greater than some blue-hair driving home from the hair salon or coffee shop.

For the OP I have a tip. Many motorists brains compartmentalize objects encountered on the road into two mental files: Moving and Non-moving. Cars, buses, trucks, and motorcycles are considered "moving" objects to a distracted/sleepy brain while fire hydrants, lamp poles, pedestrians, and cyclists are stored in the "non-moving" neuron file drawer. So the dude in the truck glances your way and his brain "sees" a non-moving object and he pulls out. Then you go to pass him and he realized you were actually a moving object so he waves "my-bad" and speeds away. Except for the blinky light up front (day and night) your lane placement can make a difference. At intersections I move far left as possible when a vehicle is waiting to cross. If you are heading straight toward someone your forward speed is harder to judge than if you are moving PAST someone. Motorists get hit by fast passenger trains all the time because even a huge train running 80 MPH does not look like it is moving very fast coming straight at them. If the same train was four sets of tracks farther away, the speed of the train would be more apparent.

So how do I easily move far left every intersection possible? Helmet mounted rear view mirror is the answer. Given your exact same scenario, I would have already been at least one lane over to the left and the turning truck would have been a non-incident.

Glad U R OK!

when i am riding at 25+ i take the whole lane. moreover, prior to an intersection i often ride in the left portion of the lane to discourage c*gers who try to race past me.

when i am riding at 25+ i take the whole lane. moreover, prior to an intersection i often ride in the left portion of the lane to discourage c*gers who try to race past me.
Unfortunately, the speed limit on that road is 45, so doing 25 is going really slow. But if I had a mirror . . . I could take the lane and move over to the right as appropriate.

I have used mirrors in the past, and it may be time for one again. My biggest complaint against them is they constantly need adjustment, but adjusting a mirror is easier than adjusting a broken face.

Thanks for the tips all, the most valuable one I have gained is the mirror for sure. Right up there is my attitude and awareness on the road, which in general is very high, but certainly does slip from time to time. Those are the times when the run stop sign morphs from a nuscence to a near or real accident.

At least I get to go out and practice again today. :)

Interesting. Here, I'd rather ride downtown than in the subburb any day, any time. There's a whole different mindset between them. In the burb, I run lights and flashers, Hi-Viz, and cameras.. downtown I don't bother except for the basics.


OP, glad you're safe.

I must live in an unusually nice suburban area here. Nice shoulders that might as well be a bike lane, and drivers that look out for me more often than not, with only the occasional "You go first. No, you go first." politeness tussle at the stop signs, and more side road routes than you can shake a stick at. Traffic is rarely all that heavy here, either.

I must live in an unusually nice suburban area here. Nice shoulders that might as well be a bike lane, and drivers that look out for me more often than not, with only the occasional "You go first. No, you go first." politeness tussle at the stop signs, and more side road routes than you can shake a stick at. Traffic is rarely all that heavy here, either.That has been happening to me too - since about last Summer I've had very peaceful experiences on the roads, with very friendly drivers. In other threads I theorize that it's because I'm riding with rack and panniers now, but who knows? I ain't complainin'!!

That has been happening to me too - since about last Summer I've had very peaceful experiences on the roads, with very friendly drivers. In other threads I theorize that it's because I'm riding with rack and panniers now, but who knows? I ain't complainin'!!
I have actually had greatly reduced incidents with drivers since I have been wearing a high viz vest and using my front light during the day. But yesterday was a different story, hopefully an isolated one. But I am preparing, bought a mirror this morning so more prepared next time.

I have had plenty of people turn in front of me right after passing (right hook) and turn in front of me when turning left across my lane (left hook), but today may have taken the cake. I had just passed a city bus, and was 1/4 mile from my work place. One more street to pass, and I turn onto the property. That last street has a stop sign, and a large white truck is rolling up to it, like I have seen 1000s of vehicles do before. I am going 23 mph, trying to keep ahead of the bus that is back there somewhere. As I enter the intersection, I realize this truck is not stopping, but turning right in front of me. Fortunately, no cars are coming in the 2nd lane, so I am able to go around this clod and not get hit from behind. Also Fortunately, the bus likely stopped at the bus stop a block back, so he was not there to run me down either. I got the feeble wave from the driver and off he goes. I wish I had a picture of my outfit, but I am wearing a high viz reflective vest (xinglet) and have my magicshine knock off headlight on flash. Can't understand how I was not seen, but I know that is how it goes sometimes.

Glad to be alive and in one piece still, just had to vent a bit.

First off, glad no incident and you are okay.

Now for the substance. That wouldn't have happened to me.. I could have been on the same street, with that same truck at that intersection, doing 25 mph, and the truck would not have pulled out in front of me. Why??? Because I got strong front blinky on doing the daytime, and strong front lights at night. If you had a strong blinky on the front, 98 out of 100, the truck would have stopped.

Had a genius nearly run me over after he ran a stop sign. Guess it's time to invest in an extra 350lumen of light.

Now you talking. It works. The respect I get with strong light up front is nothing short of amazing. Whereas, with the OP, the truck cut him off. With my strong lights, even when a car in the truck's spot got time to pull in front of me without me getting close, they still wait because of the lights. Nobody has told me this, so on all my commutes, I am packing up front..

I wish I had a picture of my outfit, but I am wearing a high viz reflective vest (xinglet) and have my magicshine knock off headlight on flash. Can't understand how I was not seen, but I know that is how it goes sometimes.



First off, glad no incident and you are okay.

Now for the substance. That wouldn't have happened to me.. I could have been on the same street, with that same truck at that intersection, doing 25 mph, and the truck would not have pulled out in front of me. Why??? Because I got strong front blinky on doing the daytime, and strong front lights at night. If you had a strong blinky on the front, 98 out of 100, the truck would have stopped.

Not sure your definition of strong, but my blinking headlamp is a CREE XML LED, according to the data sheet it flashing on at about 550 lumens. Or this was the 2/100 you referenced. Oh, and yes this was during the day time.

Not sure your definition of strong, but my blinking headlamp is a CREE XML LED, according to the data sheet it flashing on at about 550 lumens. Or this was the 2/100 you referenced. Oh, and yes this was during the day time.

That is a strong light. It looks like this would fall under that 2/100. Because from what have experienced the strong light up front during the daytime, gives more more respect than driving my car..

IMO, you made all the right moves, and I can say that was bad luck, but you overcame it.. Great stuff...:beer:

...this truck is not stopping, but turning right in front of me.

This clip illustrates a subtle move I make five times a day at least to help prevent such a move by crossing traffic. When a vehicle arrives at a stop sign to my right I automatically want to move as far left as possible (after checking my helmet mounted rear-view mirror) for a number of reasons:


1. I get unhidden from behind parked cars at the curb to my right as soon as possible. (00:06)


2. The van at the stop sign sees me sooner.


3. The van at the stop sign can better judge my speed from this angle, as opposed to cycling directly at him if I stayed right next to the parked cars.


4. By moving to the left curb the van operator at the stop sign has less of a chance of thinking "I can make it" in front of me because he now has much farther to travel to get past me.


5. If the van decides to ignore my presence altogether and proceed I have a better angle to turn onto the street he came out of as an evasive maneuver. This move by me would be nearly impossible if I were closer to the right curb AND the van would not have to move very far to nail me. So I have a few more seconds to react if I stay far left.


This van actually turns to follow me (00:10), which is why I do not move left when two blocks later a car approaches from the right (00:25). The van is just behind me very visible to the car. Finally, when I get a chance to let the van go by I move right and wave him past (00:45) - you can see my left hand leave the handlebars as I motion him to go past me.


(00:54) We all live happily ever after!




http://vimeo.com/56132202
http://vimeo.com/56132202

Nice lesson here, thanks for posting this video and the explanation. I am really looking forward to getting the mirror I ordered this morning. Commuting to work is done for the year, but I will still be riding to run errands and for fun. I have been riding without a mirror for way to long.

BTW, how fast are you traveling in the video?

I had a truck driver cause an accident years ago. Then he said to me "Do you know how hard it is to drive one of these things in the city". Wait for it..........he was driving something like a 5 tonne flat bed, no articulation. I have driven larger trucks in the city and was astonished to think this guy thought he was a legend and everyone should give him special privileges in his measly 5 tonne flat bed.

When his Mum told him he was "special" I think he misunderstood what she meant.

Nice lesson here, thanks for posting this video and the explanation. I am really looking forward to getting the mirror I ordered this morning. Commuting to work is done for the year, but I will still be riding to run errands and for fun. I have been riding without a mirror for way to long.

BTW, how fast are you traveling in the video?

18-22 MPH in general without killing myself.

Give the new mirror a fair chance. Some folks seem to take a while to really get used to them.

18-22 MPH in general without killing myself.

Give the new mirror a fair chance. Some folks seem to take a while to really get used to them.
I have used them off and on in the past. Never replaced the last one that broke. I bought the take a look one that mounts on glasses, not tried one of those before. I hope since it is off my bike it will last longer.

Nice lesson here, thanks for posting this video and the explanation. I am really looking forward to getting the mirror I ordered this morning. Commuting to work is done for the year, but I will still be riding to run errands and for fun. I have been riding without a mirror for way to long.

BTW, how fast are you traveling in the video?

It seems the video was speeded up!! ;) Doubt if I could matched that speed on my motorcycle! ;)

It seems the video was speeded up!! ;) Doubt if I could matched that speed on my motorcycle! ;)

Video speed was not changed. The wide angle lens is to blame for any speed illusions.

I must live in an unusually nice suburban area here. Nice shoulders that might as well be a bike lane, and drivers that look out for me more often than not, with only the occasional "You go first. No, you go first." politeness tussle at the stop signs, and more side road routes than you can shake a stick at. Traffic is rarely all that heavy here, either.

Except it's narrow, usually one way streets, your experience sounds more like downtown Nashville. I enjoy riding downtown.

Every unpleasant experience I've had (save for one cab driver) has been on a suburban stretch that I'm on literally about 1 minute but unfortunately can not avoid. I turn on to the street in order to cross a bridge, then turn into a neighborhood as a cut through. It's two-lane, no bike lane or shoulder, in fact the fog line crumbles into the ditch in spots [see pic below]. The speed limit is 45mph, most are wanting to go faster. When I first started commuting, I was hugging the fog line and had my mirror brushed twice. After that I started moving out into the lane. That improved things dramatically on this stretch, now I may get honked at or yelled at, but that's OK.

The strange thing for me is, I turn onto this road from a really wide street, wide enough for safe semi-truck/bike lane sharing, that has both a bike lane plus a parking lane. The speed limit on THAT road is only 35mph. It's as if the suburban planners have the speed limits confused/backwards.
The good news is, the bad stretch is on a high priority planning for a bike lane. The question is only when.

289580

Video speed was not changed. The wide angle lens is to blame for any speed illusions.

My bad then!! :beer: I was looking at that, and I said, wow! They got to be flying!! :D

With my bad old eyesight, it appears to be about 35+mph.. :D

Anyway, nice vid, and you be kickin it too.. :beer:

If you had a strong blinky on the front, 98 out of 100, the truck would have stopped.

Really? That's good to know. But do you think they really don't see you if you don't have the blinky during daytime, or is that the strong blinky just give an emphasized announcement: there is a bike here! Don't hit me!

p.s. Some of those drivers running stop signs are probably on the run after just committing a crime.

Really? ...do you think they really don't see you if you don't have the blinky during daytime...

I truly believe that less motorists pull out on me when running my bright white strobe up front during daylight hours. I can't be sure about the science of why this happens. Does the flashing catch their eye better? Does the signal from eye to brain get translated better? Does the eye see blinking and the brain see a potential cop or ambulance and react by freezing motorist actions?

If you flip the question, I think you will find the answer easier: "If I always run my bright flashing light up front, will fewer motorists notice me if I remove it? I give this question a resounding YES...fewer motorists will notice me without the light. It only takes one motorist to ruin your day, or your life. THAT is the one you want to notice you. Run the flasher.

Really? That's good to know. But do you think they really don't see you if you don't have the blinky during daytime, or is that the strong blinky just give an emphasized announcement: there is a bike here! Don't hit me!I've always thought that they see you whether you have a light or not, but in my experience they pull out a lot less if you are using a flashing light on the front.

pretty sure I saw this article posted in this forum, but either way it is a good read. It certainly supports that a blinky light will help you be seen day or night. In general I do get more respect now that I am wearing high viz and running a light always. It just did not help me in this one case, which WILL happen again I am sure.

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/

I use a double LED on strobe when riding. Day or night. It is mounted on the helmet. I have tried both helmet and handlebar mount but the helmet mounted follows the way you look. I look the drivers in the eye if possible. Hard to miss the strobe. The rear has strobing yellow LEDs. My road bike uses a red triple LED on strobe. Use the left 1/4 of the lane, wear high vis clothes, and watch out for the dain bramaged cell phoners and all other cagers. It only takes one to knock you all over. Which is more deadly the 5000 pound cager or a bullet? I do armed transportation of felons at work and am on high alert at all times on the job. But I am in more danger each day commuting with cagers.

I do armed transportation of felons at work and am on high alert at all times on the job.

:eek: Salute!

This is a great thread that may save my or someone else's life some day.