Commuting - Winter Biking is a skill.

I've tested my new commuter bike (with its new studs) in a variety of conditions--blizzard helped--and I now know winter biking is tricky! There are numerous variables at play--slush, snow, and ice-- with every ride and conditions change as temp drops. Add cars, trucks,and buses to this stew and this is challenging scheise. I walked some sections of my ride just to be safe.

But when the bike trail is packed or its just icy and those studs dig in, I love it! I've always taken biking for granted, but this is different. This requires a new skill set.

I've tested my new commuter bike (with its new studs) in a variety of conditions--blizzard helped--and I now know winter biking is tricky! There are numerous variables at play--slush, snow, and ice-- with every ride and conditions change as temp drops. Add cars, trucks,and buses to this stew and this is challenging scheise. I walked some sections of my ride just to be safe.

But when the bike trail is packed or its just icy and those studs dig in, I love it! I've always taken biking for granted, but this is different. This requires a new skill set.

:thumb:

I just picked up my first pair of studded tires (Hakkapelittas) from a Craigslist seller today. I'm excited, now I want it to snow! We usually only get a handful of days that I'd need them for, but I want to be able to ride everyday. Besides, relying on the buses here when it snows is iffy at best.

Winter biking is a skill? Tell me about it!! One time here in West Texas it was actually below 60 degrees F on a winter day! A few years ago, there was an actual snowflake; but most of us think it was probably a feather. One time (and I ain't kidding here) I actually had to wear a light jacket. Yes, winter bicycling in El Paso takes a lot of skill! :rolleyes:

Tractorlegs, I'd welcome you to come up to Sioux Falls and we'll go for a ride. Once you get the hang of it it's kind of fun to "read" the snow so you know what set of skills will come into play. Trouble is, sometimes there's ice or other nasties lurking under the snow so you get a chance to develop new skills like recovering from a front wheel skid!

Winter biking is a skill? Tell me about it!! One time here in West Texas it was actually below 60 degrees F on a winter day! A few years ago, there was an actual snowflake; but most of us think it was probably a feather. One time (and I ain't kidding here) I actually had to wear a light jacket. Yes, winter bicycling in El Paso takes a lot of skill! :rolleyes:

:eek: If you've never seen a real igloo or built a snowman - you just haven't lived! So ..... does Santa wear shorts and sunscreen in your area? :lol:

:eek: If you've never seen a real igloo or built a snowman - you just haven't lived! So ..... does Santa wear shorts and sunscreen in your area? :lol:I don't know, because I've never seen him - but I do know he uses a helicopter instead of a sleigh! :love:

Burton and labrat, I grew up and bicycled for years and years in the Denver area. I lived in a little tourist-trap mountain village called Idaho Springs, Colorado and so I have a lot of bicycle/cold/snow experience. But now I'm in the desert so I like to make fun of my snow-bound friends! Ride Free!

with every ride and conditions change as temp drops.

Think of it as the cure for your boring three-season commute. :thumb:

It does take practice and like anything else, the more you do it, the better you get at it.

As long as I can see the ice, I am comfortable riding across it without studs. It gets me once or twice a winter if it is under uncleared snow and I don't know it is there. This almost always happens under difficult conditions at a slow speed. I'd much rather have a thump or 2 than use studded tires.

I also don't like fat knobby tires. The best ones for me year round have been the cheaper ones with some rubber on them, not slicks.

good info to me ,Think of it as the cure for your boring three-season commute,thanks you ,Merry Christmashttp://www.okhealthy.com/youjie/images/6.gif

It may require certain skills to keep the bike upright but I still do not biking in snow, ice or slush. Actually, I would enjoy it if it were not for the damn cars. On my way home last night, I thought it would be such a bikers paradise if there were no cars to worry about. In my paradise, cars would be banned. Snow plows could make a single pass and bikes would not turn everything into a sloppy, dirty, mess as cars do.

Yes, it demands more of me too, both in terms of skills as well as effort. When there's fresh snow, it is harder to plow through. Today, the footprints on the paths were "hard" so the ride was like cobble stones. I'm very slow going around corners because I know I'm going to lose it, almost did on my first day in the middle of the street turning on to my street (no cars so I'd just end up with a bruise and embarrassment).

I feel like studs solve 95% of the skill issues, the rest is just will power.

LOL I have just discovered that I completely lack both the skill or will power required to navigate unplowed streets with a foot or more of fresh snow on them. I got no more than a few blocks before deciding 'these boots were made for walking.'

Funny - but futile. There's just too many of those funny little white crystalline thingies and they swarmed the wheels! The studs just made it take a little longer for me to realize I wasn't gonna win this one!

I can do the wet, but that white stuff usually wins.

I feel like studs solve 95% of the skill issues, the rest is just will power.

I dunno. I think winter technique differs in at least three ways with studded tires.

1) You're not going to carve corners with them, wet, dry, snowy, or icy. So just forget that.
2) High cadence and light pedal effort works best for me in both the moving forwards and the staying balanced departments.
3) When it gets dicey, I shift back on the bike, unloading the front--just the opposite of what you ordinarily do on a roadie. This lets the front float and wander a bit, finding its own path. Otherwise it tends to follow ruts, or if the ice or hardpack is loose on the street, it will plow it along on the street. Plus, if the bike breaks through hardpack, it always causes a sideshift. It's easier to recover from the rear sideshifting rather than the front.

I feel like studs solve 95% of the skill issues, the rest is just will power.

^ has obviously never ridden in extreme winter conditions.

Hmmmmmmm ..... so after managing to do a couple blocks and then checking the news and confirming that it wasn't my imagination - that this storm actually broke all records for snow accumulation - I'm thinkin' the most important skill is knowing when to stay home!

Wait! I still have to shovel the parking lot! :eek: I feel sore already!

3) When it gets dicey, I shift back on the bike, unloading the front--just the opposite of what you ordinarily do on a roadie. This lets the front float and wander a bit, finding its own path. Otherwise it tends to follow ruts, or if the ice or hardpack is loose on the street, it will plow it along on the street. Plus, if the bike breaks through hardpack, it always causes a sideshift. It's easier to recover from the rear sideshifting rather than the front.

Interesting. So you keep weight to the back.

So what happens when you hit something you can't go through?

I'm usually back there, sort of ready to have feet hitting the ground. Usually that means a forward slide off the saddle.(We've had some heavy snow lately and a lot of remnants around. Lucky to do 5-6 miles in an hour and even then it's quite a workout.)

LOL I have just discovered that I completely lack both the skill or will power required to navigate unplowed streets with a foot or more of fresh snow on them. I got no more than a few blocks before deciding 'these boots were made for walking.'
!
You discover you aren't Superman. Winter cycling can sometimes be a humbling experience... at least IMHO.

Interesting. So you keep weight to the back.

So what happens when you hit something you can't go through?

I said I do this when it gets "dicey". "Impassible" is something different entirely. For that, I re-route.

Hmmmmmmm ..... so after managing to do a couple blocks and then checking the news and confirming that it wasn't my imagination - that this storm actually broke all records for snow accumulation - I'm thinkin' the most important skill is knowing when to stay home!

Wait! I still have to shovel the parking lot! :eek: I feel sore already!

I'll ride in just about anything and I took the bus today. Just too much snow to plow through for a 13km ride. My neighbourhood hadn't been plowed yet this morning with about 10-15cm on the ground with more to come. We broke records here too with 25cm of snow.

I'll ride in just about anything and I took the bus today. Just too much snow to plow through for a 13km ride. My neighbourhood hadn't been plowed yet this morning with about 10-15cm on the ground with more to come. We broke records here too with 25cm of snow.

We just got 40 in one shot with another 5 expected overnight. Anyone wanna come up and help dig things out? Started shovelling yesterday and already have snow piled higher than the six foot fence. Had to quit - apparentky one guy my age already collapsed while shovelling and I don't wanna mess up my chances of making it to 601!!! :roflmao:

I use the bike for fitness, stress relief, and to save money. I'm into winter number six and enjoying it. Wouldn't mind having a melt for the ridges of ice though. New snow on top of those old ridges is quite interesting. Y'all have a safe and prosperous New Year. Blues Froggie

^ has obviously never ridden in extreme winter conditions.

Six years of Rochester winters, but mostly on roads.

Interesting. So you keep weight to the back.

So what happens when you hit something you can't go through?



Yes, you want to unload the front wheel. For really deep snow, you are almost constantly doing a wheelie...a little one. For the stuff you can't get through, you walk. I find that I can ride in snow from 6" to 12" with it getting progressively harder as the depth increases. That's Colorado snow, however. Our snow tends to have a low moisture content and is pretty easy to ride in.

^ has obviously never ridden in extreme winter conditions.

I don't find it's that much different than the skills used in mountain biking. It's a lot more difficult than riding on pavement, yes, but they're not really special skills.

I don't find it's that much different than the skills used in mountain biking. It's a lot more difficult than riding on pavement, yes, but they're not really special skills.

While I agree with you, I also think MattH has a point although inelegantly stated. Studded tires are great for ice but for unpacked or packed snow their utility isn't as great. A good set of knobbies does a good job on snow.

While I agree with you, I also think MattH has a point although inelegantly stated. Studded tires are great for ice but for unpacked or packed snow their utility isn't as great. A good set of knobbies does a good job on snow.

Isn't that what studded tires are? Knobbies + Metal?

riding through and over ice, snow, slush and all of their various textures and combinations is absolutely a special skill compared to riding on dry pavement.

from my experiences, studded tires have made a tremendous difference (marathon winters), but i live in chicago where ice is the main winter riding obstacle i face as opposed to deep snow. chicago's fleet of plow trucks is MASSIVE and vigilant. streets rarely stayed filled with snow for long.

Isn't that what studded tires are? Knobbies + Metal?

Some are knobbier than others. Marathon winters, for instance, are pretty knobless. They work great on ice, well on plain pavement (though slow and loud), not so hot in snow. Something like the Nokkian extreme is a full out mountain bike knobbie with studs.

While I admire all those who ride through the winter and in the snow, the streets sometimes get so slick here in the winter it is hard to stand let alone ride a bike. Slipping and falling off the bike happens so fast there is no time to react. For me, if there is packed snow or black ice on the ground I take the car.

riding through and over ice, snow, slush and all of their various textures and combinations is absolutely a special skill compared to riding on dry pavement.

from my experiences, studded tires have made a tremendous difference (marathon winters), but i live in chicago where ice is the main winter riding obstacle i face as opposed to deep snow. chicago's fleet of plow trucks is MASSIVE and vigilant. streets rarely stayed filled with snow for long.

+1, same here.

Marathon winters, for instance, are pretty knobless. They work great on ice, well on plain pavement (though slow and loud), not so hot in snow.

compared to a non-studded tire, marathon winters are slow. however, my set of marathon winters (700x35) are faster than my old schwalbe snow studs (26x1.90) that i ran on my old mountain bike. the 26" version of the snow studs were fairly knobby and geared more towards snow than ice. the marathon winters are much smoother, though with enough tread to get me through 95% of what i deal with during a typical chicago winter.

for a studded tire, i've found my marathon winters to be decently fast-rolling (because they're not particularly knobby).

the thing that really slows all studded tires down is the fact that you have to lower the pressure if you want the studs to do their job. rolling studded tires at 90psi will not give you nearly as much traction on black ice as rolling them at 45psi.

Isn't that what studded tires are? Knobbies + Metal?

There are several types of studded tires.
1. Minimal knobbies, with studs in the center for black ice on plowed roads
2. Regular knobbies with studs all around for good snow an ice travel on generally plowed roads
3. Extreme studded knobbies for single track or extremely icy and deep snows on off road conditions

Different riding styles and areas required different types of tires. Plain Knobbies are only good for dry snow. Emphasis: No ice riding unless you have studs, or you will go down so fast you won't know what hit you. And still, you need to use caution, keep the speed down turn gradually. This has been what I learned in the last 40 winters or so. In the early days, we had to make our own snow tires and studs. Boy, they were crude to say the least. Thank god for technology today.

While I admire all those who ride through the winter and in the snow, the streets sometimes get so slick here in the winter it is hard to stand let alone ride a bike. Slipping and falling off the bike happens so fast there is no time to react. For me, if there is packed snow or black ice on the ground I take the car.

You can ride studs on stuff you can't walk or stand on.

Some are knobbier than others. Marathon winters, for instance, are pretty knobless. They work great on ice, well on plain pavement (though slow and loud), not so hot in snow. Something like the Nokkian extreme is a full out mountain bike knobbie with studs.

Ah, I see what you're getting at, I'm used to 700/23-28 near slick for commuting, so for me upgrading to a 700/35 studded/knobbie is Knobbie as all get out, but for other people it prob. barely counts.

compared to a non-studded tire, marathon winters are slow. however, my set of marathon winters (700x35) are faster than my old schwalbe snow studs (26x1.90) that i ran on my old mountain bike. the 26" version of the snow studs were fairly knobby and geared more towards snow than ice. the marathon winters are much smoother, though with enough tread to get me through 95% of what i deal with during a typical chicago winter.

for a studded tire, i've found my marathon winters to be decently fast-rolling (because they're not particularly knobby).

the thing that really slows all studded tires down is the fact that you have to lower the pressure if you want the studs to do their job. rolling studded tires at 90psi will not give you nearly as much traction on black ice as rolling them at 45psi.

I rode 700x35 marathon winters, in Chicago, last "winter". They're slow, they're loud. They're faster and less loud than the Nokians I have on my other bike, but compared to the paselas the bike wears three seasons, they're really slow and loud. (and I'm pretty blissfully unaware of differences in tires). My commute is largely on secondary and residential streets, which get plowed well after the main thorough fares, so morning snow has me riding in on unplowed streets, and afternoon snow gets me going home. Not that it's snowed this winter, to speak of. the marathons were okay up to about an inch or so of fresh snow. more than that, they spins and slip. Fine on hardpack, ice, and pavement. We'll see, if it ever snows, what the Nokians are like.

I rode 700x35 marathon winters, in Chicago, last "winter"....... compared to the paselas the bike wears three seasons, they're really slow and loud.

in other news, after exhaustive studies, scientists have now determined that monster trucks are slower than formula 1 race cars.

i find very little use in comparing the speed of studded tires to non-studded tires. you might as well compare the speed of a track bike to a cross-country bike. very different tools for very different jobs.

i find very little use in comparing the speed of studded tires to non-studded tires. you might as well compare the speed of a track bike to a cross-country bike. very different tools for very different jobs.

Yeah, but one's faster, right? :P

You can ride studs on stuff you can't walk or stand on.

+1.

I once rode across a parking lot (on a side hill), then dismounted, and promptly fell on my @$$.

I said I do this when it gets "dicey". "Impassible" is something different entirely. For that, I re-route.

I imagine though you must see some pretty severe snow. We got 13 inches last week and I simply can't find a route to work. The streets are plowed somewhat but I end up walking much more than times affords. (Luckily I'm on a good bus route...)

I see Montreal just got 45 cm of snow the other day. I imagine upstate New York must get snow like that once in a while...

I imagine though you must see some pretty severe snow. We got 13 inches last week and I simply can't find a route to work. The streets are plowed somewhat but I end up walking much more than times affords. (Luckily I'm on a good bus route...)

I see Montreal just got 45 cm of snow the other day. I imagine upstate New York must get snow like that once in a while...

Here on the lake, we got six to eight inches from that storm. We generally get only the fringe of the nor'easters. (Although the one today seems to be straying west more than usual.) In R-Town, six to eight inches is the sort of thing we get every week to 10 days through out the winter, so it's something the DPW crews are used to dealing with. It's just par for the course.

Lake Ontario is large enough to make its own weather, like all the Great Lakes do. We get "lake-effect" snow nearly every single day, so the DPW crews are out every single day. That's what keeps things passable here. They don't wait until it's over before going out. They're out anyway. If they waited until it stopped snowing before they cleared the roads here, then they'd be waiting to St. Paddy's Day.

Thus, despite the region's reputation for snowfall, the roads are clear or nearly so for the vast majority of the winter. The worst I usually deal with is my building's driveway.

This morning I'll carry my bike to the curb. I'm subbing at a different library branch than my own this morning. If the sidewalk plows haven't been out yet, I'll have to carry my bike over the snowbank lining the street to get to the door. At my branch the staff entrance is off the parking lot, which is generally plowed long before I get there at lunch time.

That's for a typical winter, of course. Last year was way different. This year is shaping up to be typical, although it got off to a late start.

(And what's all this nonsense with named snow storms? Here, it would make more sense to name the sunny days. There are fewer of those. We might get as far as Sunny Day Harold in a usual winter.)

Here on the lake, we got six to eight inches from that storm. We generally get only the fringe of the nor'easters. (Although the one today seems to be straying west more than usual.) In R-Town, six to eight inches is the sort of thing we get every week to 10 days through out the winter, so it's something the DPW crews are used to dealing with. It's just par for the course.


Sounds like your ability to bike through the winter depends largely on the city's keeping the streets clear. Same thing here... generally my neighborhood has well-plowed streets, so I can get to the grocery store. And as a general rule, the city keep a good network of "snow routes". Only problem with the latest blizzard is that the city's pre-storm salting did not fully take care of ice build-up.

That and the fact that the last two winters have been pretty mild... and I'm finding it difficult to adjust.

Tractorlegs, I'd welcome you to come up to Sioux Falls and we'll go for a ride. Once you get the hang of it it's kind of fun to "read" the snow so you know what set of skills will come into play. Trouble is, sometimes there's ice or other nasties lurking under the snow so you get a chance to develop new skills like recovering from a front wheel skid!

That's the thing, you can never tell. All I want is my shifters to unfreeze so I can downshift and not have it in the highest ring. Then I could do it. But for now it's 25 during the day so I'll just have to wait til it warms up = D. If I had to go down any steep hills you can bet I'll walk them down. That wouldn't be fun. I get hit on those hills when it's dry. At least I get to ride up the hills, boy...never thought I'd say that. Winter sux : (.

That's the thing, you can never tell. All I want is my shifters to unfreeze so I can downshift and not have it in the highest ring. Then I could do it. But for now it's 25 during the day so I'll just have to wait til it warms up = D. If I had to go down any steep hills you can bet I'll walk them down. That wouldn't be fun. I get hit on those hills when it's dry. At least I get to ride up the hills, boy...never thought I'd say that. Winter sux : (.

If you apply some WD40 that should do the trick. Some commuters travel with it. I just apply it occasionally when I think the FD might have contacted some spray.

While I admire all those who ride through the winter and in the snow, the streets sometimes get so slick here in the winter it is hard to stand let alone ride a bike. Slipping and falling off the bike happens so fast there is no time to react. For me, if there is packed snow or black ice on the ground I take the car.

On packed snow and ice is when studded tires work their magic.

I really want to ride my single speed tomorrow the 4 miles to the bus. I think I'd miss the snow in the am, but we are looking at 2" to 4" during the day with temps around 30. It has 700x28 non-studded tires. I'll see how the ride home on the MUP goes. If I have to walk it, I guess that's how it will be. I thought about purchasing studded tires, but it just doesn't snow enough in Kansas City for me to justify the cost.

I had to laugh with you tsl, my brother! I have done the same thing. I forget the conditions because I'm no slower on ice than without. The studded tires are quite effective. Then I go down to the ground. When I decided to go studded I went around a corner and forgot the usual black ice from the previous day's melt. Down I went and that night I made up some pop rivet studs for my Chinamart mountain bike. (W/Kendas) Then I started saving for a better China made Trek 520.