Commuting - Why I hate bicycle racers . . .

Why do I "hate" racers? Is it good to hate, no. How about why I "don't like" racers? Well, maybe it's not the people themselves, just their behavior. No, it is the people themselves.

For one thing, they like cars. All they can talk about is cars, and motorcycles. They are not bicyclists, they are drivers in spandex. They are roof-rackers, they DRIVE to races, even local ones. One local Cat 1 who manages a LBS told me he doesn't really like riding his bicycle just around town, he'd rather drive. I'm coming to think of them as "wolves in sheeps clothing", ie. "motorists in cyclist clothing". They are cyclists on the outside, but with a motorist mindset. As such, they give the "rest of us" a bad name.

My friends in the local advocacy group would disagree. They want us all to be one big happy cycling family. Well, I suppose the family analogy fits, if you consider an extremely disfunctional family. We don't choose our family members, we are just together by an accident of birth. In the case of racers, an accident of riding two wheeled vehicles. The president of the local bikefed tries to "make nice" with them, and all he gets is grief in return. He is a patient fellow, though, much more patient than I. More power to him in his evangelism of the spandex crowd. In my opinion, they will never convert, never give up their sinful racing ways.

I hate being lumped with them and taking grief because of poor riding by racers. They are the ones blowing the lights, riding in huge packs blocking up traffic. They are the ones giving the fingers and being rude (OK, generalizing here).

I hate the clothes they wear, Euro jerseys, Postal jerseys, give me a frickin break. $4000 bikes. These are not bicycles that you and I ride, they are lightweight, anorexic, "supermodel" thingies that couldn't survive two potholes in a row, at least not with someone who weighs more than a feather.

If I could "disown" my brother racers, I would. I know all of this is generalization and wreaks of stereotype, but god help me if there is not a kernal of truth here. End rant.

Perhaps if you left your cubicle more, the world would seem more balanced.

Why is it that in order to be for something, one must be against something else? I do not see cycling and cars as diametrically opposing avenues of interest. I do not see cycling and high-tech as diametrically opposing concepts. On the whole, I do not see any one type of cyclist as being any better at obeying traffic laws than any other. My suggestion: stop attempting to classify and pidgeonhole everyone you encounter.

Why do I "hate" racers? Is it good to hate, no. How about why I "don't like" racers? Well, maybe it's not the people themselves, just their behavior. No, it is the people themselves.

For one thing, they like cars. All they can talk about is cars, and motorcycles. They are not bicyclists, they are drivers in spandex. They are roof-rackers, they DRIVE to races, even local ones. One local Cat 1 who manages a LBS told me he doesn't really like riding his bicycle just around town, he'd rather drive. I'm coming to think of them as "wolves in sheeps clothing", ie. "motorists in cyclist clothing". They are cyclists on the outside, but with a motorist mindset. As such, they give the "rest of us" a bad name.

My friends in the local advocacy group would disagree. They want us all to be one big happy cycling family. Well, I suppose the family analogy fits, if you consider an extremely disfunctional family. We don't choose our family members, we are just together by an accident of birth. In the case of racers, an accident of riding two wheeled vehicles. The president of the local bikefed tries to "make nice" with them, and all he gets is grief in return. He is a patient fellow, though, much more patient than I. More power to him in his evangelism of the spandex crowd. In my opinion, they will never convert, never give up their sinful racing ways.

I hate being lumped with them and taking grief because of poor riding by racers. They are the ones blowing the lights, riding in huge packs blocking up traffic. They are the ones giving the fingers and being rude (OK, generalizing here).

I hate the clothes they wear, Euro jerseys, Postal jerseys, give me a frickin break. $4000 bikes. These are not bicycles that you and I ride, they are lightweight, anorexic, "supermodel" thingies that couldn't survive two potholes in a row, at least not with someone who weighs more than a feather.

If I could "disown" my brother racers, I would. I know all of this is generalization and wreaks of stereotype, but god help me if there is not a kernal of truth here. End rant.

You need some help pal!

Perhaps if you left your cubicle more, the world would seem more balanced.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol:

billh, hate to say it you just dug yourself into the hole an you aint getting out.

billh, take the seat post out of you ass, and then try posting again.

Nice. I can totally see where you are coming from. I'm sure there are many exceptions, but I often feel like the local racer crowd looks down their collective nose at me. I think it's the "bling bling" factor-or more likely my lack of the same. I end up riding with these guys in a T-shirt, or whatever I might happen to be wearing, on a 12 year old MTB with parts that predate clipless pedals. I think they are embarassed to be seen with me. Like someone might mistake them for a bike courier, or bum or something, simply by association. It's funny for me. Then to add insult to injury I stomp most of them in the climbs, not because I'm so fast, but because I actually ride my bike instead of buy new parts for it. Just ignore those windbags, who needs em.

Rude cyclists come in all forms-racers, messengers, BMX'er, MTB'ers, etc (but not commuters, we're all saints). I don't see the point of "I hate [fill in the blank]." Some racers have the discipline to ride safely and with courtesy. Others don't.

Hah if you think that rant is bad, you should see my thread in Road Racing forum where I wonder if "racers are racist" . . .

Wow. I guess I have a love-hate, love-hate, love-hate, hate relationship with most of my cycling friends. I own a mountain bike in which I love riding off road, single track, and deep in the woods. I also own a vintage Raleigh racing bike in which I "ride like the wind" when I feel so inspired. I also ride a commuter/tourer in which I take long relaxing rides in the countryside, camp, and enjoy nature. I must be screwed up!

I must admit...I do visit more than one forum here.

I like it best this way. :D

Troll, troll, troll your boat...

Maybe they DRIVE to races because the distance in order to get to them is usually on par with a freakin century.

A phrase about people living in glass houses......

In my experience, the serious racers are usually quite well behaved, You can distingush them from other recreational riders by the conversations they have about the training objectives for the ride. The also seem to be good folks.

I think the bad actors are the poseurs and wannabes. But, that's the way it is in any activity, so why single out bikers?

If I get in a friendly race with someone on my commute, am I instantly changed into something evil?

Paul

Hah if you think that rant is bad, you should see my thread in Road Racing forum where I wonder if "racers are racist" . . .

Unfortunately I saw it! :eek:

If I get in a friendly race with someone on my commute, am I instantly changed into something evil?

Paul

Yes, street racers are even worse! :D

I know all of this is generalization and wreaks of stereotype, but god help me if there is not a kernal of truth here. End rant.
This last statement saves you.

A kernel of truth in what you say? Of course.
Some racers do fit the stereotype you describe. But the real question is: so what?
Many racers do not fit the stereotype.

This last statement saves you.

A kernel of truth in what you say? Of course.
Some racers do fit the stereotype you describe. But the real question is: so what?
Many racers do not fit the stereotype.

I'd wager MOST racers fit the stereotype . . . at least in my area. I raced at a cat 4/5 level for a couple years around here. I did things on group training rides that I would never do alone on my commute. Take bicycle commuters as a whole and bicycle racers as a whole and compare their knowledge and practice of vehicular cycling, I bet there are some big differences on average.

Riding with groups when the purpose is to push limits even when their are only a few who take stupid risks can cause the others to follow and not challenge - and then behaviors become the norm.
There also are many (if not the majority of non-bike forum) commuters who have terrible road behaviors. This can be because of the opposite effect of riding solo and not learning proper road skills from more experienced riders.
Al

Guilty. I'm 40+, cat 3 licenced evil racer. I ride a 20 year old fixed gear Schwinn I found on the curb back and forth to work every day (I missed a total of six days last year due to weather and sickness). I own a 1995 honda civic with 150,000+ miles on it. I'm well paid and could easily afford a nice car or SUV if I chose. I hate cars but I haven't figured out how to disown it completely (or am unwilling, because yes I live in a city and a society where it would be difficult) But I also have a trailer that I use for grocery shopping, a suprisingly lot, unless I'm doing a major run, then I use the evil car. I don't wear Postal or Euro duds. I think they look stupid unless you get paid to wear it. I do wear my team colors with a local sponsor's logo on it. It's a small business that I would frequent anyway, he helps defray some of the costs of my evil racing habit, and he's enthusiastic about the sponsorship, and is convinced that the extra business he gets as a result of the sponsorship is much greater than what he pays our team. I am very aware that my behavior, wearing his advertising, reflects on his business, good or bad. As a team, we remind each other about that- how we treat others (cars) in traffic and on mixed rides with other (non-evil, non-racer) cyclists. I don't flip drivers off- around here, you could be intentionally injured or even killed by an enraged urban motorist- just not smart, especially around this often-violent city. We host a couple of small events, including free bike tune-up days in an alley, where most of our "customers" are young kids on rusty BMX bikes that desperately need brake work and lubrication. I have an anorexic, titanium frame race bike that has seen more than 25,000 miles through all kinds of potholes, and rough roads, and crash-ridden races, still going strong. On my commute and even on training rides I always offer help to a cyclist stopped by the path or road, in fact I'm more likely to ask more than once if it looks like a non-evil, non-racer in sneakers. I stop parents when I see a kid with a badly adjusted (or no) helmet. Our team group rides are the same, usually a few stay behind to fix someone's (not one of us) flat then use the delay as an opportunity to chase to catch the rest of us who rode ahead. And yep, I admit to rolling through an unusually long red light (many don't trip unless a car is there as you know) and I don't put my foot down at stop signs very often. But then, I don't need to as I can track stand a little bit. I don't need to buzz cars, or joggers or other cyclists- when I'm in this kind of "traffic" I'm just cruising at easy intensity- I do my intervals away from all that. And I get my ya-ya's out racing, don't need to prove anything in traffic, or to a non-lycra rider, or racer wannabe. Sorry if you're bothered by "racers". I bet most of them you see are wannabes- dressed up, $$$ bike, with nowhere to go. If they actually raced seriously, they wouldnt need to behave like that- most of the time they would be just cruising on their way to/from a training ride, or too tired. I get passed by guys like that all the time, so what? I am racer- hear me snore...
Anyway, nice troll, I bit.

there's answer in this link ===> www.s_like_bicy_ridersm.com (linoczka.blox.pl/html)

Well that certainly cleared it all up. :D

Somethings weird about that post, it was posted in my other thread about my shifters, and i think its the same thin, and its not in english, seriously people take note!

Do you not have any self- esteem? Are you really that caught up in how people treat you? Who cares? I commute 3-4 days a week and I own a "race" bike. People think I suck because I wear spandex, oh, let me cry about it on a public forum.

Somethings weird about that post, it was posted in my other thread about my shifters, and i think its the same thin, and its not in english, seriously people take note!

I identified it as a bad post to the forum administrator.

I have also, joe has to do something about it considering i think he has gotten at least 4 pms :D

wow, the dude was just ranting.

billh, rant on man.

Just as a note. Report button likely works faster as a mod is always around but Joe sometimes is not.

Thanks for all the reports guys.:)

I don't get this. Maybe, as you mentioned in your other thread, it's just a St. Louis thing. I certainly don't get this vibe here in Sacramento.

Last night on the way home from work I had to stop by the LBS to buy a new blinkie. I'm wearing a buttondown shirt and dresspants with the super-dorky velcro anklestraps. Nobody, but nobody, thinks I look cool.

Had a nice chat with the girl behind the counter who rides a cruiser and a nice chat with the guy in the repair shop who rides a Specialized in Team Domina colors. On the way home, I see the fastest wheel in town, a pro rider who makes his living riding a bike (and fixing them). He's heading the different direction, obviously on the tail end of a training ride but still going down the road like a bat out of hell. I wave. He waves back.

I realize that this is just anectdotal evidence of Sacramento's friendliness, but then it's just anectdotal evidence of St.Louis' racism and jerkiness that informs your posts.

Maybe you should move west, young man....

The whole thing about racers not riding to races is ridiculous. Does Michael Schumacher (or Dale Jr. for you NASCAR fans) drive up to Indy in his race car? No, of course not. Would you put 50 miles on your legs before a race? No, not if you wanted to win.

Good one. :D If the distance is about 20 minutes and riding there could be a good warm up. I do that a lot. Unfortunately, most of the major races you do have to drive because they are more than 100 miles away!!!! I drive a 15+ year old jeep and always fear that that sucker would fail on me. I can't afford another car and I hit cars too. I don't normally enjoy riding my Orbea in the NYC unless I am commuting/training with it. Even my commuting route I specifically choose bike lane or bike path to ride on.


The whole thing about racers not riding to races is ridiculous. Does Michael Schumacher (or Dale Jr. for you NASCAR fans) drive up to Indy in his race car? No, of course not. Would you put 50 miles on your legs before a race? No, not if you wanted to win.

Why do I "hate" racers? Is it good to hate, no. How about why I "don't like" racers? Well, maybe it's not the people themselves, just their behavior. No, it is the people themselves.

For one thing, they like cars. All they can talk about is cars, and motorcycles. They are not bicyclists, they are drivers in spandex. They are roof-rackers, they DRIVE to races, even local ones. One local Cat 1 who manages a LBS told me he doesn't really like riding his bicycle just around town, he'd rather drive. I'm coming to think of them as "wolves in sheeps clothing", ie. "motorists in cyclist clothing". They are cyclists on the outside, but with a motorist mindset. As such, they give the "rest of us" a bad name.

My friends in the local advocacy group would disagree. They want us all to be one big happy cycling family. Well, I suppose the family analogy fits, if you consider an extremely disfunctional family. We don't choose our family members, we are just together by an accident of birth. In the case of racers, an accident of riding two wheeled vehicles. The president of the local bikefed tries to "make nice" with them, and all he gets is grief in return. He is a patient fellow, though, much more patient than I. More power to him in his evangelism of the spandex crowd. In my opinion, they will never convert, never give up their sinful racing ways.

I hate being lumped with them and taking grief because of poor riding by racers. They are the ones blowing the lights, riding in huge packs blocking up traffic. They are the ones giving the fingers and being rude (OK, generalizing here).

I hate the clothes they wear, Euro jerseys, Postal jerseys, give me a frickin break. $4000 bikes. These are not bicycles that you and I ride, they are lightweight, anorexic, "supermodel" thingies that couldn't survive two potholes in a row, at least not with someone who weighs more than a feather.

If I could "disown" my brother racers, I would. I know all of this is generalization and wreaks of stereotype, but god help me if there is not a kernal of truth here. End rant.



::sarcastic clapping:: Way to generalize. I mean, I'm not a roadie as I'd like to call them, I think gram counting is silly and agree to an extent that if you drive to an area to ride you bike on the weekends and hop back into your car you're not a cyclist, but wow, just wide sweeping statements founded on nothing but irrational prejudice.

Why do I "hate" racers? Is it good to hate, no. How about why I "don't like" racers? Well, maybe it's not the people themselves, just their behavior. No, it is the people themselves.

they All they They are not bicyclists, they They they they give the "rest of us" a bad name.

They want them, and the spandex crowd. they will never convert, never give up their sinful racing ways.

I hate being lumped with them. They are the ones. They are the ones.
I hate the clothes they wear.

If I could "disown" my brother racers, I would. I know all of this is generalization and wreaks of stereotype, but god help me if there is not a kernal of truth here. End rant.

I wittled down what you said, a little. It all looks so reasonable to me, now. After all, the only racer I know, is a TOTAL jerk. Still, I love him. Hate the sin, not the sinner!

As far as that,"god help me if there is not a kernal of truth" biz, I'm telling you that lumping the good with the bad, is the start of racism. So all noble commuters, group hug, before we give anemic bike riders a giant diet coke.

::sarcastic clapping:: Way to generalize. I mean, I'm not a roadie as I'd like to call them, I think gram counting is silly and agree to an extent that if you drive to an area to ride you bike on the weekends and hop back into your car you're not a cyclist, but wow, just wide sweeping statements founded on nothing but irrational prejudice.

The problem is not everybody has trails in there backyard.

wow, the dude was just ranting.

billh, rant on man.

Thank you, LordOpie. I just have the need to make sweeping prejudicial generalizations once in a while . . . ie RANTS. Apologies to all racer-types. Heck, what am I saying. Eat my wheel-dust!!! :)

The statements above can be said for more than just racers... it permiates through all of cycling and it is unfair to pin it on one group of cyclists.

Cyclists who ride fast (not just racers) are in a little different situation of group training rides, ride fast or get dropped. When a pace line or pack approaches an intersection at 30+ MPH the likely hood of the group stopping is slim to none. Of course we are taking groups that are 20+ and riding in a pack. In some states when I group has 6+ riders they are allowed to take the whole lane...

As someone who does race I can say that on a training ride just like in a race intensity can be high (Is high in a race) and that makes people do stuff they normally would not do.

For example...
1. You just got caught at a red that 90 percent of the group got through... what do you do? Most of the time they run it, stopping for even a minute can put you so far back that it is nearly impossible to catch up solo.

2. In my case at work as a bike officer we have a thing called code 3 (drive as fast as you can to get to the scene), usually exemplified by lights and sirens (even though I do not use them on a bike). I have done some quite risky things in code 3 situations, expecially when I know that someones life may be in danger. Of course I do not do stupid things but risky things. Adrenaline can make you do crazy things.

When you are solo there is no one that is going to drop you or leave you behind. You can obey all traffic laws, common courtsey, etc. Most of us on a training ride will show that kind of courtsey. 4000 + bikes are not just for "racers" anymore. Many people I ride with who go no more than 18 MPH ride simular bikes. Postal jerseys... same thing. I personally own a 3000+ dollar bike, not because it is the lightest thing out there (well 19.5 pounds in a 63cm) but because it is light and strong (BTW a 18- 20 lb bike in my size is not bad... no sub 15 pound bikes avalable for my size). I hit potholes and crap all day long.

As to the car thing just read above. I am doing a century tomarrow and I am not riding 70 miles there to ride 100 and 70 miles back... hmmm. Also see any crit racers riding to the local crit? No because for 30 - 60 - 90 minutes of total power is a necessity to win and 1 ounce that is not used for that is wasted...

Maybe it's just me, but dang all of this poseurs this, wannabe that, and finally the 'spandex crowd', it all sounds like a driver's rant and not the rant of a true cyclist. Bill just sounds like he is bitter about not being apart of the club. This whole us versus them thing is so ridiculous. Yeah, we all commute, but I seriously doubt that many of the members of this forum don't own a car. I know there will be some who can say that they don't own a car, I know I did it for year when I lived in a city with a decent public transportation system. But come on, I seriously think that most of the complaints on this forum are more indicative of the attitude people take out with them onto the road than jerk cyclists, racers, or drivers. You have to think that if everyone you encounter is an elitist, a racist, or a jerk, just maybe you're the one with the problem.

The problem is not everybody has trails in there backyard.


That's true. My point though isn't so much that they are driving, more that cycling is more of a weekend hobby than a way of life or a legitimate form of transportation.

Ah, yes. By all means, let hardcore commuters and transportational cyclists look down on the racers as weekend hobbyists. What a bunch of losers....

[Now who's the snob?]

Geez, I was going to respond to this but Opie is right -- let the guy rant! That's why they call this a public forum.

Life, especially sports or "recreation", is funny in that there is always some kind of pecking order (probably not the best choice of phrases). Whether I am stepping on a basketball court, a baseball diamond, or putting my leg over a bicycle there is always going to be someone who makes me feel unaccepted. That has a tendency to go away if I can prove myself. Sometimes I DON'T belong and I have learned the truth of that. Just last night, I found myself thinking badly about a guy on my basketball team (What in the world makes this guy think he can play basketball?). Some people have all the gear and none of the skills. Some people have the gear and the skills to boot. Some people are going to respect you because you have the skills. Some are going to respect you because you have the gear. Some don't care, period.

Aren't I just Mr. Wisdom?

I guess everyone rants about something sooner or later. Heck I might even be the target of a rant someday as I'm a right wing conservative SUV driving cyclist who rides 4000-5000 miles a year (commuting, centuries, etc.) and doesn't race only because I'm too slow. I'm not a techno junkie...all three of my road bikes are 20 years old or older.

Where we need to be careful with generalizations is that we all ride things called bicycles whether they're mountain bikes, road, recumbent, or whatever...and we all use streets, trails, MUPs and the like. We all need to band together for advocacy causes to ensure that we have safer streets to ride, adequate mountain bike trails, MUPs that can be enjoyed by all, Velodromes, or whatever turns your crank (pun intended). Just because I'm not fast enough to do crits doesn't mean I'm not going to support racers when the system isn't working for them. I would hope that they would side with commuters with our needs when necessary (adequate bicycle lanes or signage etc., commute friendly street layouts, bike racks). 'nuff said.

Why do I "hate" racers? Is it good to hate, no. How about why I "don't like" racers? Well, maybe it's not the people themselves, just their behavior. No, it is the people themselves.

For one thing, they like cars. All they can talk about is cars, and motorcycles. They are not bicyclists, they are drivers in spandex. They are roof-rackers, they DRIVE to races, even local ones. One local Cat 1 who manages a LBS told me he doesn't really like riding his bicycle just around town, he'd rather drive. I'm coming to think of them as "wolves in sheeps clothing", ie. "motorists in cyclist clothing". They are cyclists on the outside, but with a motorist mindset. As such, they give the "rest of us" a bad name.

My friends in the local advocacy group would disagree. They want us all to be one big happy cycling family. Well, I suppose the family analogy fits, if you consider an extremely disfunctional family. We don't choose our family members, we are just together by an accident of birth. In the case of racers, an accident of riding two wheeled vehicles. The president of the local bikefed tries to "make nice" with them, and all he gets is grief in return. He is a patient fellow, though, much more patient than I. More power to him in his evangelism of the spandex crowd. In my opinion, they will never convert, never give up their sinful racing ways.

I hate being lumped with them and taking grief because of poor riding by racers. They are the ones blowing the lights, riding in huge packs blocking up traffic. They are the ones giving the fingers and being rude (OK, generalizing here).

I hate the clothes they wear, Euro jerseys, Postal jerseys, give me a frickin break. $4000 bikes. These are not bicycles that you and I ride, they are lightweight, anorexic, "supermodel" thingies that couldn't survive two potholes in a row, at least not with someone who weighs more than a feather.

If I could "disown" my brother racers, I would. I know all of this is generalization and wreaks of stereotype, but god help me if there is not a kernal of truth here. End rant.
good, feel better now?. Got it all out now? Good, that's better, isn't it. OOOOmmmmmOOOOmmmmmmm
krishna krishna, hara hara, krishnu krishnu, hara krishna

kumbya my lord, kumbya. kumbya my lord, kumbya. oh lord, kumbya. (lets all join hands now)

good, feel better now?. Got it all out now? Good, that's better, isn't it. OOOOmmmmmOOOOmmmmmmm
krishna krishna, hara hara, krishnu krishnu, hara krishna

Yes, much better, thanks . . . now on to "right wing conservative SUV driving cyclist who rides 4000-5000 miles a year" . . . those &*(^*()&*()!!!!!!!!!

Hello there??? Racing isn't a hobby. Is a way of life. If you are a cat 4 and don't at least get 15 hours of training each week, you are not competitive. More hours if you want to win. What you do during the off season and winter??? You ride your bike. If you work full time and race, you do nothing but work, train, race, and recovery.



That's true. My point though isn't so much that they are driving, more that cycling is more of a weekend hobby than a way of life or a legitimate form of transportation.

I don't HATE anyone, especially a fellow cyclist. But, I wish there were more of MY sort of cyclists (the jeans, sandals and tee-shirt cyclists, the suit, tie, and wingtip cyclists) and fewer of the "I'm pretending to be Lance" cyclists.

THOSE guys convince "Joe Public" that cycling is about as "mainstream" as sky diving. I'm still hoping folks figure out that riding a bike is for EVERYONE, any age, any weight, any income, anytime, anywhere, wearing any clothes...or not.

You know. A few things bother me about the original post. First of all ranting over something you cannot control or will never be able to change (especially if you don't act to change because you spend all your time ranting) is just a waste of time. You should be out riding your bike.
Secondly, There are many different kinds of cyclist. Some fast. Some slow. Some like large groups some like solo. Cycling is more than mere excercise it is a freedom of expression. That is the beauty of this sport. If my fellow cyclist can afford a 4k rig and feels comfy in pink spndex then that is cool. If he/she can average 24mph on the local club rides then hell who am I to complain or hate that. I'm a bit jeolouse but certainly don't hate that person.

I have never really met a bad cyclist until possibly now.

Ah, yes. By all means, let hardcore commuters and transportational cyclists look down on the racers as weekend hobbyists. What a bunch of losers....

[Now who's the snob?]

I am. That's because I am clearly better than those that drive cars on a regular basis.

Hello there??? Racing isn't a hobby. Is a way of life. If you are a cat 4 and don't at least get 15 hours of training each week, you are not competitive. More hours if you want to win. What you do during the off season and winter??? You ride your bike. If you work full time and race, you do nothing but work, train, race, and recovery.

Riding because you want to win, and riding because its a healtiher better way of life are two different things.

I don't HATE anyone, especially a fellow cyclist. But, I wish there were more of MY sort of cyclists (the jeans, sandals and tee-shirt cyclists, the suit, tie, and wingtip cyclists) and fewer of the "I'm pretending to be Lance" cyclists. THOSE guys convince "Joe Public" that cycling is a "mainstream" as sky diving. I'm still try to convince folks that riding a bike is for EVERYONE, anytime, anywhere, wearing anything. Or heck, not wearing anything.

Do you think the only time I ride I wear spandex? I own 10 bikes and all of them are made for different reasons. Why do you think that because you only ride in T-shirts and jeans you are better than someone that rides in only spandex? You think you are some kind of elitist because you ride on 2 wheels? My 5 year old son can ride a bike. We have a couple on homeless guys too. Your the problem with the sport. You would rather see less people on bikes so you can feel you do something extreme in your life. Well guess what?

I am. That's because I am clearly better than those that drive cars on a regular basis.

No you just live closer to your job, etc.

Riding because you want to win, and riding because its a healtiher better way of life are two different things.

Strange I think the 2 go hand in hand. Riders that win races are in better shape than the guys that tool around. Do you think that guys that ride to win could have picked an easier way to do so? Or maybe they are really good at riding a bike; fast.

Your just another bike elitist that thinks he knows the true meaning of the sport(yes I said sport). You and alanbikehouston should write a book so all us other riders can become enlightened too.

Riding because you want to win, and riding because its a healtiher better way of life are two different things.

Wrong. You can't win if you are a fat lazy bum. :) Living a healtheir life is given and required if you want to race. Period.