Mountain Biking - Rigid vs. Suspension: the experiment

Well I decided to be impulsive and sell my Fox Terralogic. Got $500 on eBay. Bought a Surly 1x1 disc fork, and an Easton Monkeybar Carbon low-rise bar. Basically, I was curious to see how much suspension improved the ride vs. rigid. So far, I like rigid better.

The thing I am noticing with the CF bar and the steel fork is that the handling is extremely stable, very predictable, and has no play whatsoever. Granted, the Fox was stiff but still had SOME play. Anyways, I was nailing potholes today, bunny hopping curbs, hitting small jumps as fast and as hard as I could. There was no shock to my wrists or hands as I had somewhat expected. The front end felt very "dead" on impact and stable and predictable, where there Terralogic system of the Fox made it somewhat unpredictable. One thing I noticed about my Fox is that I was running it stiff to the point where it was almost locked out anyways... maybe this is just my preference, but honestly in comparison, having a front shock in retrospect made the bike feel unpredictable and unbalanced. Especially the Fox... it was hard to predict how it would react to impacts at time. It would lock out on the smooth, and do alright on the climbs, but on the bigger impacts sometimes it would hit and then dive, sometimes it would stay almost locked out, and sometimes it would hit smoothly. I hadnt really thought about it until now.

Anyways just some thoughts on suspension... more to come after more extensive testing. :)

So carbon bars get a thimbs up eh...is your bike chromoly?
I ride a solid fork..on a light xc chromo bike. It's good (mostly the nice frame).

I might just try some CF bars...I'm a paranoid about Alu failure in bars.
My Alu risers are braced and heavy.

Who's good @ CF bars? Easton..who else?

I was wary of carbon bars at first myself. My bike is "M4 aluminum"... its a heavily manipulated 3.0lbs frame... nicing riding aluminum frame I have ever owned. I would argue the ride is at least in the class of Scandium or other more forgiving aluminum alloys when compared to my old Kona. Anyways, I really like the Easton bars I have, but they are last years model which had a different shape than this years. Not many like this years. I would look at any name brand bar with a long/lifetime warrenty. I was surprised at how much the CF bars took the edge off compared to the aluminum flatbar. I rode to the shop with the new fork on, but the old aluminum flatbar, and rode home with the CF and definately noticed a difference in road vibrations and impacts. Maybe its parltly mental, but there definately was at least SOME difference.



So carbon bars get a thimbs up eh...is your bike chromoly?
I ride a solid fork..on a light xc chromo bike. It's good (mostly the nice frame).

I might just try some CF bars...I'm a paranoid about Alu failure in bars.
My Alu risers are braced and heavy.

Who's good @ CF bars? Easton..who else?

Thats very brave of you. I dont think i could go back to rigid (Mainly because a rigid fork on my 6" duallie would be a bit weird- it would be a hardnose instead of a hardtail)

I went from rigid to FS last year and I took my rigid for one ride. The rigid felt very unbalanced, and it was very hard on my body. For XC at least, I'd say I much prefer having suspension, especially sections I take at speed.

Just my personal opinion ;) Glad you like your rigid fork...

Ming

I remember when rigid was the only option...I also remember getting so jarred and shaken on fast rough stuff that I couldn't focus my vision. Those carbon bars must really help out. Are you running a high-volume tire?

I never rode a rigid. But I do understand how a fork would screw up the ride and feel unpredictable. Its why I keep buying z1's. Solid, feel consistent and just work when I need it to. I doubt I could ever go rigid...

Hey "gastrocnemius"

Nice Sig, Man !!!!

I agree... cool sig.. and I'm not sure if i could ever go back to a rigid fork again, though I have considered a carbon fiber bar.

I remember when rigid was the only option...I also remember getting so jarred and shaken on fast rough stuff that I couldn't focus my vision. Those carbon bars must really help out. Are you running a high-volume tire?

Mutano Raptor 2.4 Race up front, more like a 2.2 at best. I was running about 45psi. The deal is, you feel the bump, but there is no "sharpess" to the impact. Its dead... its really hard to describe. My buddy at the shop took it for a ride after I was doing putting the bar on and had test ridden it around our little "test track", and came back in and was like "wierd, I see what you mean". I honestly can't think of another way to describe it other than dead. The more I think about it, the more I think that shocks may overexaggerate some bumps...

See, to me there are only two bikes that feel balanced now. A rigid hardtail, and a full suspension. The hardtail... never realized how pogo stick it felt, even with the Fox Terralogic, until now. If I hit a small drop off I dont have to worry about my front compressing and bucking me, and the rear feels more under control on climbs since less weight is transferred down and forward keep the rear more evenly weighted (I think, I don't know physics, but it does feel better!).



I went from rigid to FS last year and I took my rigid for one ride. The rigid felt very unbalanced, and it was very hard on my body. For XC at least, I'd say I much prefer having suspension, especially sections I take at speed.

Just my personal opinion ;) Glad you like your rigid fork...

Ming

You're making me long for my old rigid. I never should have given it away. I'd like to build up a new full-rigid again and since I'm a CF weenie, I'd probably look at doing up a Pace RC300F1 frame with a Pace RC31 fork.

https://www.pacecycles.com/ProdIms/440.jpghttps://www.pacecycles.com/prodims/433.jpg

My other choice would of course be an Aegis Pro-Axe with the same Pace fork.

http://www.bicycleblowout.com/Images/proaxe_01.jpg

Who's good @ CF bars? Easton..who else?
I rely on my Maxm bars (http://www.maxmcomponents.com/pages/handlebars.html) Irun them on both my trail and commuter bikes. The inner grid structure and lifetime warranty are BIG confidence boosters.

See, to me there are only two bikes that feel balanced now. A rigid hardtail, and a full suspension. The hardtail... never realized how pogo stick it felt, even with the Fox Terralogic, until now. If I hit a small drop off I dont have to worry about my front compressing and bucking me, and the rear feels more under control on climbs since less weight is transferred down and forward keep the rear more evenly weighted (I think, I don't know physics, but it does feel better!).

YEah, I've never had a hardtail, so I guess I can't really comment on that. I can imagine what you're saying though. Having only the front end to dip down must feel very unnatural.

YEah, I've never had a hardtail, so I guess I can't really comment on that. I can imagine what you're saying though. Having only the front end to dip down must feel very unnatural.

"I went from rigid to FS last year and I took my rigid for one ride. The rigid felt very unbalanced, and it was very hard on my body."

Sparks_219-
....you ran a solid fork on a suspension frame??

....If you never had a HT, how were you riding a rigid bike??

....I'm missing something.

"I went from rigid to FS last year and I took my rigid for one ride. The rigid felt very unbalanced, and it was very hard on my body."

Sparks_219-
....you ran a solid fork on a suspension frame??

....If you never had a HT, how were you riding a rigid bike??

....I'm missing something.


2 bikes :D

1) Rigid (no-suspension)
2) FS

Oh...I refer to my mtb as a HT, though it no longer runs F-suspension.

I'm suprised to see this done on Alu frames. Really, I run solid forks on my Ritchey because the steel is so good at soaking vibes, the stem is chromo too.

I used to ride HT's, solid forks in the late 80's early 90's...they all sucked bad compared to this frame\fork i'm riding.
Without suspension -steel bike, you become very aware of the bikes tensile\ structural build.
I oversize the front tire, bit lower psi, the bike has a very tight feel, even though it is a bike that is built around the steels tensile properties.
The flex is what I use to absorb the hits when running fast.

Not debating the steel\ vs Alu points, I just thought the vibration riding Alu offroad -minus suspension would be too much.

Also -perhaps mistakenly, I thought the suspension components were in place to stop frame flexing in the an Alu HT, as constant flexing will hasten structural failure.

With the Cf bar as Seeley said, he "definately noticed a difference in road vibrations and impacts".
My reason for trying a CF bar is weight first, then vibration.

With my current frame, because it has flex, the added 'give' with front suspension makes the bike feel sloppy, unresponsive and I want accurate front end.

In summary I'd say that me running solid fork is dependant on my bike being chromoly.

In summary I'd say that me running solid fork is dependant on my bike being chromoly.

I dunno if I'd buy that. Although all of my full-rigids in the past and all of my favourite ones have been chromoly frames, I have ridden Al full rigids before and they were that bad... even with Al rigid forks. Of course my favourite designs were the monocoque Al frames paired with chromoly rear ends and a chromoly fork ala Richard Cunningham designs.

I have ridden Al full rigids before and they were that bad...

You said it. :p

You said it. :p

Okay... so that was a typo. I meant to say "they weren't". :) I think it has to do with expectations really. I'll have to admit that I'd rather have a full chromoly or hybrid chromoly/Al full-rigid rather than an all-Al full rigid but plenty of folks used to ride the latter. With the introduction of suspension however, most people got accustomed to plusher bikes, not having to pick as clean a line and riding a bit more aggressively. I would not say I would ride an all-Al full-rigid bike the same way as I would a full-rigid chromoly bike or a bike with suspension.

I remember when rigid was the only option...I also remember getting so jarred and shaken on fast rough stuff that I couldn't focus my vision. Those carbon bars must really help out. Are you running a high-volume tire?


Looks like your avatar photo was taken while you were riding rigid......

I guess I mean, since my bike is rigid, I RELY on the steel tensile\ frame flex.
With an Aluminium frame this is not possible (a constant flex would damage the frame, the bikes are built NOT to flex.)
I think I might be interested in riding cyclocross bikes with Alu frames and CF forks.

I've only ridden road frames in Alu frame\fork, I liked steel better, less vibration.
I 'imagine' the same is true for offroad -only ridden Alu with suspension offroad.

I like Alu suspension bikes..Alu hardtails are easier to control rear off a jump.
The tensile nature of steel kicks the rear up when you land, they buck.

Back to CF and solid forks.....MY SOLID FORK NEVER BLOWS SEALS!!! EVER!
Requires no maintenance whatsoever.

I'm not taking this bike over say 3 foot drops, and it rides very smooth on uneven ground.
I find suspension is a waste on THIS frame...The suspension fork is going onto a dh\ freeride type frame (possibly Aluminium) where it will be useful.

When I bought my frame, I brought the bike to a ex-mtn racer, I wanted a suspension fork.
He told me that I should ride the solid fork for a while, said it was more than efficient and one of the better ones made.
He talked himself out of 400$ into the till.
And I now agree, and know what he was talking about.
He was very familar with T.R. frameworks, forks.

And I love suspension forks, good ones.
Because I ride rigid mostly, I have probably 'good' bike handling skills.
When I ride suspension, i'm hell on wheels. Awesome, but not for my T.R. frame.

It's my understanding that suspension was implemented to increase traction of the
front wheel while going over bumps, you know, to improve ones conrol. While the tensile properties of
a given frame material may have been a consideration in fork design, suspension
forks were not designed to eliminate frame flex/wear and tear - it was about
traction/control/comfort. Or maybe I misunderstood your description... ;)

I rode an all aluminum frame/rigid fork when I first started. It was an
Alpine Stars, with elevated chainstays. And was VERY stiff, but I loved it. It
was responsive, nimble, and I'd kill to have another set of those aluminum forks.
I trusted those more (at the time) than any fork I had ridden up to that point
(the steer tube was double thick). In fact, it might become my next project, to
make a rebuild of that bike. I admit, it was a shocking ride, but to me, worth it
for the control factor.

I love my full suspension bike, for bombing trails and riding with reckless
abandon, but it's not a single track bike (to me anyhow). I've recently built up
my old steel kona, and found an old Tange Big Fork, chromoly. I like the way it
makes me feel more 'connected' to the ground, even if it bounces over things the
full suspension would soak up. You have to ride a littel more carefully, pick
your lines better, but that's what I like about single track anyhow. And I love it
for bunnyhopping and jumping - very responsive. I've yet to be able to bunnyhop as
well on my full suspension. The thought of carbon bars never even crossed my mind
though. This summer I shall look into that, thanks for the tip.

Two different designs (full/rigid) for two different applications. Marketing fills
in the rest ;)