View Full Version : David Clinger's tattoo
jcthomasjr
02-04-05, 01:08 PM
Has anyone else read the story on Velonews, or anywhere else for that matter, on David Clinger's Maori warrior type of tattoo? Apparently his team, Webcor, has asked that he have the tattoo removed. I know the sponsor has a right to be concerned about image, but it sounds like they didn't really poll the sponsors or get some feedback from Clinger about what the tattoo is all about. I don't own a company and I certainly don't sponsor anything, so for me to comment from that aspect is difficult. But on one hand I have to say why all the fuss? And apparently all those involved in the decision have not even seen the tattoo. Must admit that this is an interesting story.
I certainly am curious now about the Webcor company. For me, I would lean more towards not doing business with this company or not buying their products because of their decision to want Clinger to remove the tattoo, or especially if they removed him from the team because of it.
Grasschopper
02-04-05, 01:15 PM
Did he have the Tat when they signed him? If so to me they could pound sand. I am not a big fan of tats but it is his body and if they didn't like it they shouldn't have signed him or made it part of the contract that he remove it. Or how about cover it. Many states have policies that HS athletes must cover tats in competition. Look at HS photos of Lebron James for reference.
jcthomasjr
02-04-05, 01:19 PM
If you have not read anything about this, it is a facial tattoo.
skydive69
02-04-05, 03:19 PM
Has anyone else read the story on Velonews, or anywhere else for that matter, on David Clinger's Maori warrior type of tattoo? Apparently his team, Webcor, has asked that he have the tattoo removed. I know the sponsor has a right to be concerned about image, but it sounds like they didn't really poll the sponsors or get some feedback from Clinger about what the tattoo is all about. I don't own a company and I certainly don't sponsor anything, so for me to comment from that aspect is difficult. But on one hand I have to say why all the fuss? And apparently all those involved in the decision have not even seen the tattoo. Must admit that this is an interesting story.
I certainly am curious now about the Webcor company. For me, I would lean more towards not doing business with this company or not buying their products because of their decision to want Clinger to remove the tattoo, or especially if they removed him from the team because of it.
I can certainly understand that considering how rare tattoos are - especially on sports figures. I'd tell the sponsor to go eff themselves.
timmhaan
02-04-05, 03:21 PM
does anyone have a pic, or a link? i can't really find anything on this.
rich007
02-04-05, 04:12 PM
does anyone have a pic, or a link? i can't really find anything on this.
This is not his but must be similar to this Maori tatoo from a motion picture "Once Were Warriors":
http://www.velonews.com/images/news/7520.10178.f.jpg
Avalanche325
02-04-05, 04:16 PM
It is called a Moko. I lived in New Zealand for three years. I think I saw 1 that was not on TV. Of course he has a right to have one. A sponsor also has the right to sponsor someone else if that person does not fit their desired image. People in business (and pro cycling IS a business) should think really hard before getting a tatoo, or piercing, or purple mohawk, that cannot be covered. It is your right to do it. It is also your right to live with the consequenses of your decision.
Here is a picture of a real one:
timmhaan
02-04-05, 04:19 PM
if anything, i think it would help to bring publicity to the team. maybe in the 50's this would be controversal in the publics eye, but today i don't think it would negatively impact the sponser.
jbhowat
02-04-05, 04:20 PM
aHAHAHAHAAAA....
I don't get it at all.... But I don't get a lot of things many people have super strong beliefs in *cough*god*cough*..
That said, its his right to have it, and it is the sponsor's right to have it removed or remove him from the team but IMHO *ONLY* if he got it after he signed. I don't know the whole story.
Crack'n'fail
02-04-05, 04:21 PM
He did not have the tat when they signed him. They said the image did not match with their "blue collar" image of cyclists who have real jobs and race on top of that. They told him if he removed it he could still race for them. He has agreed to remove it, he said he had already looked into removal options before getting it. If he's that non-commital to the ink he put on his skin I wouldn't feel too bad for him.
Avalanche325
02-04-05, 04:23 PM
if anything, i think it would help to bring publicity to the team. maybe in the 50's this would be controversal in the publics eye, but today i don't think it would negatively impact the sponser.
There is good publicity and bad publicity. Companies don't generally want to pay for the later. Some people don't think a thing about any kind of body decoration. But MOST people still don't approve, so it dosen't make good business sense to have a built in controversy on your "billboard". I am not saying it is right. But that is the way it is.......................
Crack'n'fail
02-04-05, 04:36 PM
well put avalance
qmsdc15
02-04-05, 05:57 PM
I think I've heard of Webcor before, the fact that they make a stink about that tattoo is negative publicity for sure. He's crazy to remove it (crazy to get in first place but done), he should sign with another team, the guy will get in a lot of photos with team jersey on because he looks interesting. No one will think the product is bad because some freak races for that team. Instead they will think maybe I will try that olive oil or coffee or jelly bean or webcor type product. I have no interest in what they sell at this point. They want the team to look blue collar so their white collar customers will feel safe buying their product. He should sue for breach of contract and race for a better sponser.
NeoBinary
02-05-05, 07:54 PM
Some people don't think a thing about any kind of body decoration. But MOST people still don't approve
I suppose you've based this on the tons of data you've collected?
Painting with some mighty broad strokes, don't ya think?
DEKKERFAN
02-05-05, 09:12 PM
Hey, any publicity is good publicity right? I mean just look at us all clammering about it and how we all want to see it. Personally I think it's an outrageous thing to do, I would never do it and from what I've seen, probably about 99.99% of the human population would never do it either. But, maybe some high percent of the population would just like to get a look at the guy, you know, like checking out the freaks in the circus. Heck, if I were in charge of the team I'd say leave it on and see how the season goes. Tell him to attack and get in some breakaways and drum up some publicity. You know it will turn into a media circus the way the press is nowadays. Just tell him to always wear something that says "Webcor" on it.
DEKKERFAN
02-05-05, 09:14 PM
Hey, any publicity is good publicity right? I mean just look at us all clammering about it and how we all want to see it. A full face tattoo? I personally I think it's an outrageous thing to do, I would never do it and from what I've seen, probably about 99.99% of the human population would never do it either. But, maybe some high percent of the population would just like to get a look at the guy, you know, like checking out the freaks in the circus. Heck, if I were in charge of the team I'd say leave it on and see how the season goes. Tell him to attack and get in some breakaways and drum up some publicity. You know it will turn into a media circus the way the press is nowadays. Just tell him to always wear something that says "Webcor" on it.
roadwarrior
02-06-05, 04:14 AM
It is your right to do it. It is also your right to live with the consequenses of your decision.
Part two of your statement is what many people don't get. You have the right to do what you want...I have the right to run my company that way I want...if those two don't somehow match up, there are consequences...
In "Significant Other", the book about Victor Hugo Pena's perspective of Lance's fifth win, there is a very funny part about Victor showing up with colored hair and being told that if he wanted to have colored hair he could do it someplace else.
A cyclist, like a Formula One or NASCAR driver is a traveling representative/billboard for their sponsor(s). There is responsibility associated with that. The sponsor has a right to expect the team and team members, to act or look a certain way....
Kinda why Tony Stewart was taken to the woodshed by Home Depot and Joe Gibbs...
JoeOxfordCT
02-06-05, 04:14 AM
I Googled Dave Clinger and checked the images tab on the Google site...they had this shot of him but the tattoo is on his chest not face....perhaps he did the face job after the pic ???
I don't know anything about Mr. Clinger but after Mike Tyson I don't think we need anymore athletes with full face tattoos....what's next ? ear biting ??
pearcem
02-06-05, 07:48 AM
the chest tattoo is one that he had before. it was another semi-spiritual warrior type tat that he said was believed (by whatever culture it is from) to protect anyone who had one, and he said he got it because he had a lot of crashes. the face Tattoo was done much more recently. Webcore said that they are going to try and prevent pics from getting out so that it doesn't get to be a bigger "problem". i feel sorry for the guy's fiance
roadwarrior
02-06-05, 08:34 AM
the chest tattoo is one that he had before. it was another semi-spiritual warrior type tat that he said was believed (by whatever culture it is from) to protect anyone who had one, and he said he got it because he had a lot of crashes. the face Tattoo was done much more recently. Webcore said that they are going to try and prevent pics from getting out so that it doesn't get to be a bigger "problem". i feel sorry for the guy's fiance
I feel sorry for David....I know someone who had a couple of tatoos removed from the upper arm...ones done in a state of "comfortably numb"...and it ain't no fun. From the face REALLY is going to get David's attention.
Laggard
02-06-05, 09:26 AM
What was he thinking? I have no problems with tattoos. I have three of them myself. However, I know that by getting by face tattoed I am effectivly removing myself from any type of job that requires putting on a public face.
Cycling is still a fairly conservative sport. Though there are a couple tats in the peloton, tats and funny lookin' hair still don't go over well. Even Cipos slightly different lookin uniforms were frowned on.
What was he thinking? I have no problems with tattoos. I have three of them myself. However, I know that by getting by face tattoed I am effectivly removing myself from any type of job that requires putting on a public face.
agree 100%, on your face is just going to get you sacked from plenty of jobs !! He must have known this would happen or he is really stupid. Now he's removing it? I thought he REALLY HAD TO HAVE IT !! Nutjob.
Well, if he's Maori, then that's one thing.
If he did it just because, then he's just an idiot who didn't think before he acted. But I'm sure the pain of having it scraped off his face will help him understand what he should and shouldn't do to his own body when it's basically owned by the company that pays your bills.
Koffee
Whokay- here's the link to the story btw: http://www.velonorth.ca/print.php?sid=117
Koffee
dolophonic
02-06-05, 09:39 PM
Woah....
I don't know if it's still true, but at one time the British Paratroop Regiment refused to accept candidates if they had visible tattoos once their BDUs were on - i.e. hands, face, etc. Something about presenting a bad image ... killing someone a million ways from sunday is only permissible if you don't have tats!
Clinger was contracted before he got the face tattoo. The Sponsors bought a product that was damaged goods on delivery. I'd refuse to accept it as well.
TitaniuMerlin
02-07-05, 08:50 AM
I actually think that is still true today. At least it is in the US Military. You arent allowed to have a Tattoo that is visible when in your BDU. And it is all about the image (and getting rid of the 'individual'. Everything has to be uniform. Same with wearing civilian clothing under your BDU (for cold weather etc) - you can wear it as long as you cant see it.
Brillig
02-07-05, 10:30 AM
Here you go.
http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/24/76/12m.jpg
Laggard
02-07-05, 10:38 AM
Here you go.
http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/24/76/12m.jpg
Huh?
Grasschopper
02-07-05, 10:45 AM
Huh?
Maybe it is a tat of a red X. :D
Thylacine
02-07-05, 07:29 PM
This guy should be in the Special Olympics. I mean, seriously.
62vette
02-07-05, 08:43 PM
The guy has never been to NZ, got it done on Argentina, yet claims he felt some affinity with polynesian culture.
A moko (Maori name for facial tattoo using Maori designs) has huge spiritual significance with Maori people. I don't think you would find many Maori in NZ that would undertake to get one without a lot more forethought than thinking it makes you look like a warrior.
I think he needs to change his prescriptions :)
ChiefCatchacold
02-10-05, 09:16 AM
Here's a picture: http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7546.0.html
Thanks for the link. Crazy boy.
Clinger is a poster boy for modern cultural vacuity.
Laggard
02-10-05, 10:19 AM
Clinger is a poster boy for modern cultural vacuity.
And it's catching on:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/news/feb05/freedman.jpg
And it's catching on:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/news/feb05/freedman.jpg
I would have done that to if I was sponsored by FORD. :)
Brillig
02-10-05, 10:57 AM
Is that a real tat?
Kind of looks like those henna tattoos that fade away after a little while.
Serpico
02-10-05, 11:06 AM
__
Is that a real tat?
I think Freedman's tattoo is a joke. Ironically enough, Basis is a line of facial cleansers. It's a good example of a tat that probably wouldn't jive with the company's brand strategy.
The Team Basis Website (http://www.ford-basiscycling.com/people/index.html#nicole) says that Nicole had the work done out of her love and respect for saltwater fish, and notes that "racing a criterium is a lot like swimming around a saltwater reef waiting for a great white shark to attack...and then at the last second swimming out of the way quickly so one of your teammates can be swallowed up instead." She also lists her weight as 115lbs (with haircut). I wonder what she weighs with all that ink?
Nicole's personal site (http://www.nicolefreedman.com/) reinforces the notion that she's a bit of a kook. In a good way. Tat or no tat, I'll follow this gal through the season. Cause she cracks me right up. :)
DXchulo
02-10-05, 11:36 AM
Hmm...the part on his head almost looks like a helmet.
That's worse than the Mike Tyson tat. I wouldn't want to get too close to that guy. Maybe that's his plan.
Doctor Who
02-11-05, 08:47 AM
I think Freedman's tattoo is a joke. Ironically enough, Basis is a line of facial cleansers. It's a good example of a tat that probably wouldn't jive with the company's brand strategy.
The Team Basis Website (http://www.ford-basiscycling.com/people/index.html#nicole) says that Nicole had the work done out of her love and respect for saltwater fish, and notes that "racing a criterium is a lot like swimming around a saltwater reef waiting for a great white shark to attack...and then at the last second swimming out of the way quickly so one of your teammates can be swallowed up instead." She also lists her weight as 115lbs (with haircut). I wonder what she weighs with all that ink?
Nicole's personal site (http://www.nicolefreedman.com/) reinforces the notion that she's a bit of a kook. In a good way. Tat or no tat, I'll follow this gal through the season. Cause she cracks me right up. :)
Looks like a lousy Photoshop jobber to me.
HigherGround
02-11-05, 09:47 AM
I think Freedman's tattoo is a joke. Ironically enough, Basis is a line of facial cleansers. It's a good example of a tat that probably wouldn't jive with the company's brand strategy....
Nicole's personal site (http://www.nicolefreedman.com/) reinforces the notion that she's a bit of a kook. In a good way. Tat or no tat, I'll follow this gal through the season. Cause she cracks me right up. :)
Nicole definitely has a sense of humor. She used to write some amusing columns for Velo News. Thanks for the link to her web site.
I think Freedman's tattoo is a joke. Ironically enough, Basis is a line of facial cleansers. It's a good example of a tat that probably wouldn't jive with the company's brand strategy.
The Team Basis Website (http://www.ford-basiscycling.com/people/index.html#nicole) says that Nicole had the work done out of her love and respect for saltwater fish, and notes that "racing a criterium is a lot like swimming around a saltwater reef waiting for a great white shark to attack...and then at the last second swimming out of the way quickly so one of your teammates can be swallowed up instead." She also lists her weight as 115lbs (with haircut). I wonder what she weighs with all that ink?
Nicole's personal site (http://www.nicolefreedman.com/) reinforces the notion that she's a bit of a kook. In a good way. Tat or no tat, I'll follow this gal through the season. Cause she cracks me right up. :)
If you read the bios for all of the Team Basis riders, it becomes clear the entire page is a joke. Supposedly one of the riders is a former member of ABBA, even though she left the band before she was born. Also, one of the riders is doing graduate work in geology and she "studies dirt, rocks and other such exciting things."
Nikster
03-04-05, 12:16 PM
I can certainly understand that considering how rare tattoos are - especially on sports figures. I'd tell the sponsor to go eff themselves.
Would it make a difference to you to know that what Clinger has done is, with respect to Maori culture, deeply offensive and completely against protocol?
Nik Warrensson
mimir@iconz.co.nz
Nikster
03-04-05, 12:21 PM
It is called a Moko. I lived in New Zealand for three years. I think I saw 1 that was not on TV. Of course he has a right to have one.
Tena koutou katoa
I am Maori. I was born in New Zealand / Aotearoa and I can state categorically, Clinger has NO right at all, with respect to the Maori culture, which he apparently admires, to have such a tattoo. Moko (Maori facial tattoos) amount to a claim to having a certain specific ancestry. What Clinger has done by getting a copy from a magazine done by an ARGENTINIAN tattooist is effectively identity and ancestral identity theft.
If he admires Maori culture he should remove it.
Nik Warrensson
Ngai Tahu
Christchurch/Otautahi
New Zealand/Aotearoa
Nikster
03-04-05, 12:24 PM
That said, its his right to have it, and it is the sponsor's right to have it removed or remove him from the team but IMHO *ONLY* if he got it after he signed. I don't know the whole story.
No. You don't know the whole story at all...it is NOT his right to have such a tattoo anymore than its your right to use my credit card details to purchase things...even more so because the Moko is a deeply Maori spiritual thing to have done.
Clinger hasn't even been to New Zealand/Aotearoa...
Nik Warrensson
Ngai Tahu
Christchurch/Otautahi
New Zealand/Aotearoa
Nikster
03-04-05, 12:27 PM
Well, if he's Maori, then that's one thing.
If he did it just because, then he's just an idiot who didn't think before he acted. But I'm sure the pain of having it scraped off his face will help him understand what he should and shouldn't do to his own body when it's basically owned by the company that pays your bills.
Koffee
Tena keo Koffee,
I couldn't agree more Koffee. I am Maori.
Kapai
Nik Warrensson
Christchurch/Otautahi
New Zealand/Aotearoa
Avalanche325
03-04-05, 12:49 PM
I suppose you've based this on the tons of data you've collected?
Painting with some mighty broad strokes, don't ya think?
Yes. The data is called common sense. I've compiled 40 years of it.
Painting with broad strokes??? Well, that is what the word MOST is all about. In the activist world it is known as stereotyping. In the scientific world it is know as statistics. In the CORPORATE world, which is what we are talking about here in a PROFESSIONAL sport with CORPORATE SPONSORSHIP it is called demographics. And TONs and TONS of research using everything from surveys, test groups, marketing researchers and psychiatrists are done to decide the proper image for corporate branding.
If the sponsor was Red Bull, or something like that, they might think it is a good thing. But, the people writing his paycheck don't.
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