Classic & Vintage - Pre-1960 Raleigh road bike ID - Golden Arrow? (pic heavy)

I picked this up just this afternoon, and all the seller knew about it was that it belonged to a recently deceased college lecturer. As you can see from the pictures it's very much the old style of road bike with the longer frame, so I assumed it was late 30s or thereabouts. However, the Sturmey hub is dated 1951... so begins the mystery...

Interesting things I've noticed:

1) The front and rear wheels do not match
2) The Sturmey shifter is contemporary with the 1951 rear hub
3) The wheels are 26 x 1 1/4
4) The area around the head tube is painted gold, just like on a Golden Arrow
5) The Lauterwasser handlebars and stem are black, and where the colour has flaked there is no sign of chrome underneath. I know earlier bikes came with black celluloid bars, but the Raleigh catalogues all suggest chromed bars were standard
6) The herons on the chainring have engraved 'eyes'
7) The serial number on the frame is 73735

My guess is that the rear wheel is a later upgrade of sorts, but I was hoping someone might be able to help with an ID. Thanks!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Kq0wEAQ2vzQ/UPRGE1DQpmI/AAAAAAAAAHI/Dkk2TfoeqhE/s640/WP_000083.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-eYtWBeLrJC4/UPRGEy5X9RI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/LrcZmdzyCO4/s640/WP_000084.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Qq134VTiwRA/UPRGFszP7KI/AAAAAAAAAHY/GaM5EC9UzRc/s640/WP_000085.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jiotrgULoRo/UPRGEtihNAI/AAAAAAAAAHM/qxsmaz549UY/s640/WP_000077.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vZetNg815IM/UPRGGYE7I8I/AAAAAAAAAHs/M3tAhrKpHZA/s640/WP_000087.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Zl42vMiDLw4/UPRGG4nnVXI/AAAAAAAAAHo/yGwZ0f6oYNw/s640/WP_000088.jpg

1) The front and rear wheels do not match

In what sense? Rims are different styles? Different number of spokes? My '66 DL-1 has 32 spokes in the front and 40 in the rear.


5) The Lauterwasser handlebars and stem are black, and where the colour has flaked there is no sign of chrome underneath. I know earlier bikes came with black celluloid bars, but the Raleigh
catalogues all suggest chromed bars were standard

During wartime, many parts were painted rather than chromed. It could be that even if the bike is a 1951, they were still using war era stock.


6) The herons on the chainring have engraved 'eyes'

There are eyes on my '66. Not sure if they're stamped or engraved.

Awesome find. Looks great.

Frank has a Golden Arrow. You may be able to compare bikes a bit.

Whether it's a Golden Arrow or not, that bike is definitely older than 1951. Judging by the lugs and the seat stay attachment, I would assume it is from the 30's or earlier. I'm not sure when chrome became available and fashionable, but even before the war it was not that common.

Whatever it is, it is very cool.

Very cool indeed! No white tail on the fender either, a nother nod to an earlier date.

Thanks guys, just remembered the serial number - 73735... that's certainly not 50s!

The rims seem to be different yeah - the front one is unmarked and in worse condition, and the rear is marked 'Schurmann Super: Made in Germany'

Just looked up the serial number and this suggests 1901! Surely that can't be right? I'm still banking on mid-30s

Great find, indeed. :thumb: It looks to be in really good condition for its age. Does it have a 3-speed or a 4-speed hub?

Wow - what a spectacular find tjkwood!

It looks 30's to me, maybe even earlier with that seat lug.
The lauterwaseer bars are right for a GA but I'm not sure about the black.
Does the chain ring bolt-on to the crank arm (as shown below?)

Also - Does it have the "quick release" ears for the fender-mounting wing-nuts located part-way up the seat stays? From what I was told this is an essential feature of the Golden Arrows. It allowed the rider to quickly remove them for competition (and use it to run his errands the rest of the time).

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Raleigh%20Golden%20Arrow%20-%201938/RaleighGoldenArrow-1938013.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Raleigh%20Golden%20Arrow%20-%201938/RaleighGoldenArrow-1938027.jpg

Great find, indeed. :thumb: It looks to be in really good condition for its age. Does it have a 3-speed or a 4-speed hub?

It's got a 3 speed AW, so nothing overly special there!

Wow - what a spectacular find tjkwood!

It looks 30's to me, maybe even earlier with that seat lug.
The lauterwaseer bars are right for a GA but I'm not sure about the black.
Does the chain ring bolt-on to the crank arm (as shown below?)

Also - Does it have the "quick release" ears for the fender-mounting wing-nuts located part-way up the seat stays? From what I was told this is an essential feature of the Golden Arrows. It allowed the rider to quickly remove them for competition (and use it to run his errands the rest of the time).

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Raleigh%20Golden%20Arrow%20-%201938/RaleighGoldenArrow-1938013.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Raleigh%20Golden%20Arrow%20-%201938/RaleighGoldenArrow-1938027.jpg

It hasn't got the wngnuts you show... does this reclude it from being a GA? And yeah the crank is the same as the one in the photo. I'm so happy with it, couldn't say no (for a good price too :thumb: )

It hasn't got the wngnuts you show... does this reclude it from being a GA? And yeah the crank is the same as the one in the photo. I'm so happy with it, couldn't say no (for a good price too :thumb: )

You have a fantastic bike there - but I think probably not a GA. The slack angles and Lauterwasser bars were common to many sporting bikes in the 30s.

Kurt from the Headbadge would probably be the last word on what model it actually is.

You have a fantastic bike there - but I think probably not a GA. The slack angles and Lauterwasser bars were common to many sporting bikes in the 30s.

Kurt from the Headbadge would probably be the last word on what model it actually is.

Peter Kohler is also a great resource for Raleigh bicycles of this era.

Thanks everyone for the info and help - let's see what Kurt has to say :p

My serial charts don't go back as far as this bike, but it is most likely a late-1930's Sports with a replacement rear hub and shifter:

http://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/catalogs/1939/pages/11.htm
http://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/catalogs/1939/images/11.jpg

-Kurt

I think you're right Kurt, seems to add up - thanks!

IS the chainring swaged to the crank or bolted on?

Does it have a headbadge or a decal? Oiler port at the BB? Better pics of lugs would help. And does it seem to be repainted, thus no decals?

Does it have a headbadge or a decal? Oiler port at the BB? Better pics of lugs would help. And does it seem to be repainted, thus no decals?

The headbadge is just a standard 'The Raleigh' one, and there's an oiler port yeah. And on second inspection you're right, it could have been repainted skilfully

.... it could have been repainted skilfully

More likely the faded decals were scrubbed off by a PO. At least I doubt that this bike, such as it is in this "as-found" condition, spent much time at CycleArt.
The old lead-based black Raleigh paint is very durable, and if it is original, you'll know for sure once you go over it with some Meguiars' scratch-X - because it will shine like new!

More likely the faded decals were scrubbed off by a PO. At least I doubt that this bike, such as it is in this "as-found" condition, spent much time at CycleArt.
The old lead-based black Raleigh paint is very durable, and if it is original, you'll know for sure once you go over it with some Meguiars' scratch-X - because it will shine like new!

That's a fair point... by the sounds of it the college lecturer was the original owner and left it standing for some years before now. Do you know what the main ingredient in scratch-x is? I'm in the UK and we don't have it over here... thanks so much for all the help :)

EDIT: just found it online! my bad!

Does it have the "quick release" ears for the fender-mounting wing-nuts located part-way up the seat stays? From what I was told this is an essential feature of the Golden Arrows. It allowed the rider to quickly remove them for competition (and use it to run his errands the rest of the time).

My '51 Clubman has those mounting ears, as well -- I'm not sure they were unique to the Golden Arrow. Anyway, if Kurt says it's a Sports, I'll believe him.

My '51 Clubman has those mounting ears, as well -- I'm not sure they were unique to the Golden Arrow. Anyway, if Kurt says it's a Sports, I'll believe him.

They are not unique* to the GA, but AFAIK, it can't be a Golden Arrow without them.

(* they were also on the Silver Record and RRA at least)

They are not unique* to the GA, but AFAIK, it can't be a Golden Arrow without them.

(* they were also on the Silver Record and RRA at least)

Mine is for sure a Golden Arrow and does not have QR's for the fenders or bag supports. I think the OP's is a war-era golden arrow. The GA and the roadsters were still using the cast lugs found on the OP's bike but the sports models had continental style seat stays. **** "Chrome plating wasn't used prior to '35 (THIS IS WRONG)**** and the head-clip was gone by the early 40's. It also has bolt-on pump pegs like mine. The Golden Arrow was not really much of a sports model. It was more of a prestige model reflecting style trends, not racing. Things like cast lugs, primitive geometry and non-removable chain ring.

I am going to say early 40's Golden arrow. my SN is 59928 and is about 1936.

I can't tell much from the OP's photos. Here is a link to my photos.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52448896@N08/sets/72157624518788173/

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4011/5153669589_d8e27921dd.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52448896@N08/5153669589/)
IMG_3827 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/52448896@N08/5153669589/) by barnstormerbikes (http://www.flickr.com/people/52448896@N08/), on Flickr

Here is a GA said to be close to the same vintage as mine with GA transfers in tact but much more like a sports model. May be mine is older? IDK

That's really interesting, so at least we can vaguely pin it down to the late 30s! Looking at these photos, I'm thinking more and more that some parts of my bike have been painted... the stem is black and so are the fenders... I'm planning (when funds allow) to get the fenders done in the original ivory colour - look great!

Frank -
Based on your bike with its decals, it's clear to me that the fender Quick-Release ears are NOT an essential feature of a GA and were probably
introduced after your bike was built.

Assuming that is the case, I could embrace everything else you said EXCEPT for the 1940's year of the OP's bike, since my GA has both the ears and
its 1938-dated hub with continental-style stays (below), vs. the old-style seat stays. - I.e., It seems unlikely to me that they would have reverted to
the old-style stays stays after '38.

Mine also has brazed-on pump pegs, a removable chain ring, and (ostensibly) a later, letter-prefixed serial number format. ("AD61186")

Finally, if chromed bars came in after 1935 as you said, I would submit that the OP's bike predates both yours and mine by a few years.



http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Raleigh%20Golden%20Arrow%20-%201938/RaleighGoldenArrow-1938011.jpg

But Auchen, isn't there some disagreement about whether yours is a Golden Arrow? Since it has been repainted, I think we have to be a bit cautious. It looks like one to me, but I have never seen any of these in the flesh. They are all just photos on the computer to me, so my opinion is not worth much.

But Auchen, isn't there some disagreement about whether yours is a Golden Arrow? Since it has been repainted, I think we have to be a bit cautious. It looks like one to me, but I have never seen any of these in the flesh. They are all just photos on the computer to me, so my opinion is not worth much.

It's fair to say that my bike is a "Franken-Arrow" because it has new bars, new rims, new pump, new stem, replacement fenders and quadrant shifter - but I am not aware of any disagreement that it is a GA. Anyway, I had earlier shipped the frame to Kurt and I'm pretty confident in his ID.
Also (except for the fork which I painted) it has all the original paint and retains the trace, gold box-lining on the tubes -though the other markings were long since polished away.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Raleigh%20Golden%20Arrow%20-%201938/RaleighGoldenArrow-1938006.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Raleigh%20Golden%20Arrow%20-%201938/RaleighGoldenArrow-1938010.jpg

Just to add some more info, here's a photo of the head badge (it's not great quality but the best I can get at this time of night). The rivet goes through the chin of the heron rather than the eye or head, which I've not seen before. What do you guys think?293789

Just to add some more info, here's a photo of the head badge (it's not great quality but the best I can get at this time of night). The rivet goes through the chin of the heron rather than the eye or head, which I've not seen before. What do you guys think?293789

I just think it's another indication that your bike is older. (My bike has he rivet through the heron's neck.)

Chin, head, eye, neck. - Raleigh must have stuck that poor heron everywhere!

I just think it's another indication that your bike is older. (My bike has he rivet through the heron's neck.)

Chin, head, eye, neck. - Raleigh must have stuck that poor heron everywhere!

That's really quite exciting then! I've been trawling Google but haven't found a similar badge. I may get in touch with the chap I bought it off to see if I can contact the wife of the original owner.

Also auchen, how did you get your paintwork looking so good? Megular's or something else?

Also auchen, how did you get your paintwork looking so good? Megular's or something else?

Meguiars Scratch-X plus thier Tech (auto) wax. It was pretty dull when I started but the old Releigh paint shines up so well. . . I had a similar experience with my '53 Sports - at least in the spots where there's still some paint left :rolleyes: - it's really shiny! :)

One of the thing I have heard more than once from the British motorcycle guys is during the war, many substitutions were made. Also, chrome wasn't used at Raleigh before '35 but black was used quite a bit after chrome was available. Chrome was more expensive.

Also (though I don't have the facts in front of me) you can also tell a bit regarding the plating is on spokes. Either nickel was used or on some roadsters, stainless steel was used before 35-36. As soon as Chrome was used at Raleigh they started chrome plating spokes on the higher end sports bikes because the steel could be had with higher mechanical properties than stainless steel (that is why plated spokes are generally thinner than SS spokes)

So, if it was pre-35 then the spokes would be nickel plated, stainless or painted.

I am sure you are right about the seat stays unless it was due to material shortages.

My herons are pinned at the jaw GA and Silver Record.

I always thought the sports models had steeper head angles than the golden arrow.


*****IMPORTANT EDIT I got the dating of chrome from conversations with an old-timer in the UK. I may have heard him wrong but I looked through a couple of 30's Raleigh catalogs and and saw chrome mentioned. I will find the correct date later today.*****

Anyway, I agree on Kurt's estimate and further evidence might be the non-fluted cranks. I looked at a 1933 catalog and saw a super-sports painted like a GA.

One other 1930s Raleigh data point: I have what I've been told is a 1934 Sports. Here's the head tube:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dtMBb46MYoU/UKEWstgNB9I/AAAAAAAAOL8/hhjuo1QPOnI/s800/IMAGE_1FBE0391-EB79-4ED7-A5D6-A24BAF97C329.JPG

Yup, a decal rather than a headbadge.