Classic & Vintage - Colnago Master or Cinelli Supercorsa

Been debating between the 2 for a few weeks, neither one is Vintage but both to me are Classic's. Looking to build a NEW super record spec'd bike once I find someone to buy my Carbon bike. Which one would you choose and why? I don't race, mostly do 50-75 mile rides on weekends with the random century every now and then.

Will be making the purchase sometime mid-summer once I have all the parts stocked up ready to put on my last new bike for awhile.
http://www.cinelli-usa.com/images/cinelli12/uploads/supercorsa-bg1.jpg

http://pbkmedia.probikekit.com/catalog/product/cache/18/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/0/104431-a.jpg

Cinelli... it looks more C&V with the curved fork. I'd probably remove the newer decals and replace them with the earlier style.

The Cinelli, especially if they make it in silver.

The master with the external socket rear dropouts just does not do it for me. Maybe it is the straight leg fork too. In that color scheme I just keep thinking of the original Supers in the red & white, the changes just don't hold for me.

The Cinelli has some differences too, the shell while made by Cinelli never found its way to the SUpercorsa before, the rear dropouts are different too, but the overall look is more successful.
It would look pretty good with nuovo Super Record too.

With either frame, build up spme traditional 32 hols 3 cross wheels, with something like Ambrosio Nemesis rims... not the low spoke count wonders of today, and natural tan sidewall tires too.

I'm picking the Cinelli for the fork, too. Not really because of the curve (though I'm not a straight fork man), but for the crown. I just like the look of the Cinelli's better.

Cinelli all the way.

I've lusted after a Supercorsa for decades.

Cinelli, hands down IMO.

I think they're both very nice.

FWIW, and I'm only bringing this up because I was checking the Cinelli out on the Cinelli site and it listed the frame's weight (54cm-1790 grams); I think the Colnago frame is likely about a quarter pound lighter than the Cinelli. I think it's fairly safe to say that the Cinelli 54cm frame weighs AT LEAST 1790 grams (3 lbs, 15 ounces), since that's Cinelli's claimed weight. I weighed a 2011 Master X Light frame on a digital scale, and it weighed 3 lbs, 11 ounces (56cm frame). The Master X Light frame I weighed is the lightest lugged steel frame I've ever weighed.

I've only ridden the SC, an '89.
Poetry in motion, even with me on it.

I've ridden the Master, but not an SC.

Thought the Master, to be sure, was overpriced.

Guess that leaves the SC.

I know nothing of the Colnago, but I sure love my Cinelli. (fairly new, Great Western Bike Rally, 1984)

Cinelli. Not a close call.

Go with the Cinelli! What a great looking bike and ride.:thumb:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq4/quantumfoam_2008/Current%20Collection/Cinelli%20SC/DSC_0001.jpg

I'm lucky enough to have both and their both wonderful bikes but I'd sell the Master Piu before I sold the Supercorsa. The Supercorsa will probably be my last bike if I ever had to sell off every bike I own.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x300/garyf5354/Cinelli%20Supercorsa%2085/DSC00190.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x300/garyf5354/Colnago%20Master%20Piu/DSC02480.jpg

To be very honest, the Colnago has the better geometry and is a nicer bike to ride. The Cinelli, of this '85 vintage, is very twitchy with a quite upright, criterium geometry. I'd still keep the Cinelli over the Colnago.

The Cinelli, I don't like traight forks.

I say master,without doubt.
I own a '81 supercorsa made for american crits,a 2001 master x light and a 2010 master;if aesthetic is subjective,on the road there is no match between the supercorsa and the 2001 master,no mentioning the new master.....
like Well Biked said the new master is very ligt and stiff,and this is due to the new supplier of the master tubes,no more Gilco but a steel industry in Milan,I suppose Dedacciai.
btw I've never rode a new supercorsa in neuron tubes,ok,but the s.c. doesn't have the geometry,the weight and the Precisa fork....

Cinelli. Never seen a Colnago that did anything for me. And I was even LESS impressed with the ones I actually rode.

SP
OC, OR

Go with the Cinelli! What a great looking bike and ride.:thumb:

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq4/quantumfoam_2008/Current%20Collection/Cinelli%20SC/DSC_0001.jpg


Thanks for that picture, thats beautiful right down to the Ti stem. Curious whats the weight of it?

cinelli XCR!

Been debating between the 2 for a few weeks, neither one is Vintage but both to me are Classic's. Looking to build a NEW super record spec'd bike once I find someone to buy my Carbon bike. Which one would you choose and why? I don't race, mostly do 50-75 mile rides on weekends with the random century every now and then.

Will be making the purchase sometime mid-summer once I have all the parts stocked up ready to put on my last new bike for awhile.




I would get the Cinelli for the following reason if no other - the Colnago comes with a threadless fork, and the Cinelli comes with a threaded fork for use with a classic and elegant quill stem.

http://superbbicycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/5476650553_0690122690_b.jpg



The Cinelli distributor in the U.S. normally carries the red color and the titanium grey color in even numbered sizes but will special order any of the other colors in the following color chart for you as well as the odd sizes:

http://www.cinelli.it/site/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/tubini-supercorsa.jpg
http://www.cinelli.it/site/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=1&sub=3&product_id=174&flypage=cinelliflypage.tpl&vmcchk=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9&lang=en (http://www.cinelli.it/site/index.php/prodotti?page=shop.product_details&category_id=1&sub=3&product_id=174&flypage=cinelliflypage.tpl)

I agree with FredB above. Cinelli for the sole reason Colnago comes with a threadless fork. This from a Colnago guy!

Sorry in advance for the derail, but can anyone tell me what saddle that is on the red Cinelli in Fred B's post?

Sorry in advance for the derail, but can anyone tell me what saddle that is on the red Cinelli in Fred B's post?

a beautiful San Marco Zoncolan.

Cinelli - for the understated graphics and the graceful threaded fork. Some folks think all Italian wheeled vehicles should be red, but that blue in FredB's post would be my choice.

Cinelli - for the understated graphics and the graceful threaded fork. Some folks think all Italian wheeled vehicles should be red, but that blue in FredB's post would be my choice.


That blue is Azzurro Laser or Laser Blue, and it harkens back to a classic Cinelli track bike called the Laser from the early 1980's that was the same color. You could not find a color that is more closely associated with Cinelli than Laser Blue. Nice choice!

http://www.todayandtomorrow.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/cinelli_2.jpg

I like mine:)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/deepvent/SC-1_zps5a77a6d5.jpg

i don't like the looks of the new « classics »... for some reason...

I like mine:)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/deepvent/SC-1_zps5a77a6d5.jpg

Now that's tasteful.

Well done.

...and for all of my Colnago buddies, I do like the Master quite a bit, but I was taken aback when I was quoted $3,400 for a frameset.

There are a lot of nice custom framesets at that price and it isn't that hard to to find a nice used Master Extra Light.

Sorry in advance for the derail, but can anyone tell me what saddle that is on the red Cinelli in Fred B's post?

As Sante pointed out, Zoncolan. Fits my butt well.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5454/7230266516_d9a731f34f_h.jpg

Here are some photos of a new Cinelli Supercorsa frame in Laser Blue -

http://www.nukaya.com/classico/PIX/1334231602_412ccc08545.jpg

http://www.nukaya.com/classico/PIX/1334231602_412ccc08547.jpg

http://www.cinelli.it/site/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/ScorsaLaser.jpg

Here are some photos of a new Cinelli Supercorsa frame in Laser Blue

Sweet!

I have an older (1984) Cinelli SC. I also have an old (2002) Cinelli NSC. Hold out for an NSC, if you can find one.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-623C5JO9kjU/Tup-PESUseI/AAAAAAAAGuI/27xKKOJOC_I/s800/P1020294.JPG

i don't like the looks of the new « classics »... for some reason...

ORLY? :D

http://cdn3.coresites.mpora.com/rcuk/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/TommasiniFullBike640.jpg

I like both frames and wouldn't kick either one of them out of bed.

Here are some photos of a new Cinelli Supercorsa frame in Laser Blue -

http://www.nukaya.com/classico/PIX/1334231602_412ccc08545.jpg

We have a winner!!

I have an older (1984) Cinelli SC. I also have an old (2002) Cinelli NSC. Hold out for an NSC, if you can find one.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-623C5JO9kjU/Tup-PESUseI/AAAAAAAAGuI/27xKKOJOC_I/s800/P1020294.JPG

Perfection!

Looked at her three or four times tonight.

Wouldn't change a single thing.

I like both frames and wouldn't kick either one of them out of bed.

This guy didn't:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1927/dsc0083ix.jpg

Those Laser blue SCs are really sharp, but I don't really dig the decals.


As Sante pointed out, Zoncolan. Fits my butt well.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5454/7230266516_d9a731f34f_h.jpg

Thanks. I've only ridden Brooks saddles and use a Professional on most bikes. I really like the look of that saddle and have been curious to try something lighter than a Brooks Pro. I know they're different beasts, but could you compare the Zoncolan to a Professional?

This guy didn't:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1927/dsc0083ix.jpg

Interesting rear hub. And I bet the yellow bracelet comes off soon.

I can't believe someone would put a chub hub on a supercorsa pista just seems so wrong

I can't believe someone would put a chub hub on a supercorsa pista just seems so wrong

+1. That thing looks wrong on that bike. Campy pista large flange would be my choice.

Those Laser blue SCs are really sharp, but I don't really dig the decals.



Thanks. I've only ridden Brooks saddles and use a Professional on most bikes. I really like the look of that saddle and have been curious to try something lighter than a Brooks Pro. I know they're different beasts, but could you compare the Zoncolan to a Professional?

I don't know about the Pro and technically I don't currently own any Brooks saddles. But the Italia and Record saddles I do have are equivalent to the B17. And in that case, they fit my sit bones very similar as the Zoncolan.

Also, if you prefer a more vintage-ee look, there is the Zoncolan Urban. If I get enough cash from the Madison swap, I'm getting one.

http://www.sellesanmarco.it/imgDettaglioZoom/user_images/prodotti/012/UP/03_ZONCOLAN_UP/421L051_ZONCOLON-UP_SIDE.jpg

I have both also. They are both fine fine riding/handling bikes. The SC rides like a dream & is very stiff w/ the SLX tubing, but comfortable at the same time, while the Colnago (Superissimo w/ SL) is a bit more forgiving. Both also excell in descending w/o any issue...I'm prolly more partial to the Colnago though, only because it was my first Italian racer, but the SC is still a very 'fine ride'.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Rnbguitars/Motobecane-Cinelli/CinelliSperCorsa002.jpg

I have both also. They are both fine fine riding/handling bikes. The SC rides like a dream & is very stiff w/ the SLX tubing, but comfortable at the same time, while the Colnago (Superissimo w/ SL) is a bit more forgiving. Both also excell in descending w/o any issue...I'm prolly more partial to the Colnago though, only because it was my first Italian racer, but the SC is still a very 'fine ride'.




If anyone is interested in a Cinelli Supercorsa from the 1990's with SLX tubing, Adrenaline Bikes in California has some NOS frames - http://www.adrenalinebikes.com/store.cfm?do=Browseproducts&CategoryID=5807

http://www.euroasiaimports.com/productcart/pc/catalog/framebordeaux_899_detail.jpg

By the way, the new Cinelli Supercorsa frame is made from a Columbus SL Niobium tubeset. Other Columbus tubesets made with Niobium steel include the Spirit and Life tubesets. See the following for the shapes, diameters, and wall thicknesses of each of these tubesets - http://www.columbustubi.com/eng/4_4_4.htm

It should be noted that Columbus owns Cinelli and obviously provides Cinelli with top of the line tubesets.

More on Niobium steel from http://www.columbustubi.com/eng/3_3.htm -

NIOBIUM

It’s a special micro alloyed steel with Manganese, Chrome, Nickel, Molybdenum and Niobium. In the Columbus research and development tradition it can be considered the evolution from of the Thermacrom and Nivacrom alloy. It’s designed to provide better mechanical properties and greater resistance to atmospheric corrosion than conventional carbon steels. For every top-of-the-line and competition frames where lightness and high reliability are fundamental. Like Vanadium in Thermacrom steel, Niobium increases yield strength by precipitation hardening and acts for refinement of grain size. Thanks to the special Columbus chemical composition, the combined effect of precipitation strengthening, and grain refinement the properties are incredibly increased inith respect. To standard steels. Niobium is a more effective strengthening agent than Vanadium. After mechanical deformation working and drawing, NIOBIUM undergoes a special heat treatment that gives the steel its final characteristics; this heat treatment is designed to minimize the tubes distortion and decarbonization phenomena. Columbus heat treatment results in a super fine high-strength microstructure of bainite, wich means high strength, hardness and long fatigue life.
Mechanical characteristics:
Ultimate tensile strength = 1050 ÷ 1250 MPa
Yeld strength: min 750 MPa
Minimum elongation: 14%


Previous to the new SL Niobium tubesets, Supercorsa frames were made from Neuron tubesets made of Nivacrom steel. Earlier SLX tubesets were made from Cyclex steel.

[QUOTE=Fred B;15168643]Here are some photos of a new Cinelli Supercorsa frame in Laser Blue -

http://www.nukaya.com/classico/PIX/1334231602_412ccc08545.jpg

We have a winner!!
That's the one for me.

Cinelli Supercorsa with Ghisallo wooden rims laced to Curtis Odom high flange hubs -
http://www.culturecycles.com/2012/09/bikerist-cinelli-supercorsa/

http://www.culturecycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/7976821158_49d6edb683_b.jpg


http://www.culturecycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/7976819229_9a2e6f8149_b.jpg

Cinelli Supercorsa with Ghisallo wooden rims laced to Curtis Odom high flange hubs -


Looks a bit off to me.

Looks a bit off to me.

Agreed, levers are too high, stem is too high, saddle is too low, triple and long cage a gross, should be a compact.

I'd also throw in the gap between the seat tube and tire is too tight. Wood wheels need a relaxed geometry. And I keep on thinking it has a disc brake up front.