Touring - TransAm before we're 40 - camping v. hotels

OK. So a friend and I agreed a few years back that if we hadn't already done it by age 40, we would do a cross-country tour at age 40. since we are in our early 30s, the cogs have been turning.

Here's the rub -- I did a fully self-supported solo tour down the Pacific Coast in 2002 Vancouver to San Diego. I camped just about every night, but did stay in hotels on four nights when it was either the only reasonable option or on one occasion when I had just had it up to my ears with wind and dust and wanted a hot shower and a bed. (outside of lompoc, CA). Anyway, it was basically a self-supported camping tour. I loved it, and frankly am having difficulty considering the alternative he proposes, which is:

My friend has no interest in camping. He wants to do credit card touring, i.e. staying in hotels along the way and eating in restaurants for all meals. No camping gear and no cooking. My wife, who may be a willing participant in these shena****ns, thinks we should do a bit of each, since there will be at least some occasions when the camping accomodations would be nicer than any hotel/motel. (As background, she and I did a self-supported tandem tour inthe Dordogne region of France two summers ago, splitting between camping and hotels.) Anyway, my friend doesn't seem to want to carry any camping gear, which I think is a mistake.

I would like to get people's thoughts on how to find common ground and enjoy our cross country tour.

Note that money is not really the issue here. assume that if the hotels are free -- if so, would you prefer camping at least camping some of the time? or all hotels with the weight savings?

apparently, the word s-h-e-n-a-n-i-g-a-n-s is censored here. who'da thunk?

What about a compromise between camping and hotels . . . hostels!
http://www.hiayh.org/

For me, IMO, ...

Camping has cost going for it, but not much else. It's less expensive than a hotel, but you've got to carry all that gear around with you, and you've got to sleep on the ground which can get painful after a while, and at some point you'll end up in a horrible storm or two, soaking wet, freezing cold, or on the other hand, absolutely melting with heat. You've got bugs in your food, and shoes, and sleeping bags. You have to deal with a faulty stove that only half-cooks the tinned dinners you're forced to eat all the time . . .

Hotels (and eating in restaurants), on the other hand are MUCH more comfortable. You don't have to carry much of anything with you, you don't need to worry about storms, cold, heat, hard ground. You don't have to deal with the entire insect population of the US. And you can have some variety with your meals. The downside of hotels and restaurants is that they are expensive.

But I have to admit that camping has a couple other things going for it ... flexibility - you can stop almost anywhere; and adventure. So I think it boils down to, do you want comfort, or do you want flexibility and adventure?

Personally, if money was no object, I'd be VERY tempted to go the hotel route ... I've done the camping thing a couple times ... I'd be happy to try the hotel thing! :)

Whats more important. YOUR camping, or his FRIENDSHIP?
Reverse the situation. If he said, motels and restaurants only would you go?

Well, that's the question I guess. Will I agree to go all hotels. I'd like to get other people's input on whether THEY would.

My concern is that we may be limited to less desirable routes because there aren't hotels on the nicer roads. One specific thought I had was that it might be cool to bike through Yellowstone. I wonder if there is a hotel in the 90 miles between Cooke City, MT and West Yellowstone. I seriously doubt it. So without camping gear, I don't think we can ride through yellowstone - unless we do a 90+mile day through the very, very hilly park road.

I say both: camping and hotels. But that's just me.

My concern is that we may be limited to less desirable routes because there aren't hotels on the nicer roads. One specific thought I had was that it might be cool to bike through Yellowstone. I wonder if there is a hotel in the 90 miles between Cooke City, MT and West Yellowstone. I seriously doubt it. So without camping gear, I don't think we can ride through yellowstone - unless we do a 90+mile day through the very, very hilly park road.

Check the internet - see if there are some sort of accommodations (cabins? hostels?) available in the more remote areas.

if your wife is not riding, and money is no object, why not have her follow you
in your 48' class-a motorhome?

Well, that's the question I guess. Will I agree to go all hotels. I'd like to get other people's input on whether THEY would.

Nope. As in no-friggin-way. Has your friend added up the cost? If you can do 50 miles a day, every day, thats 60 nights in a hotel. Lets assume you'll stay in flea-ridden small town hotels away from the Interstates. Thats $40 a night, lets be optimistic and call it $20 per person per day for hotels. $1200. Meals, at 3 a day, 2 in restaurants (I'll assume your friend will eat snack food for lunch & not demand a restaurant meal). So 2 a day is $15 minimum. By eating cheap restaurant food & staying in cheap accomodation, you're looking at $35 * 60 = $2100 minimum, per person. Personally, I'd rather sleep on the ground and cook my own food. That is, mostly plan on camping and when you really need the break, when you really need the hot shower, spend a little extra on a nice meal & nice hotel room.

I just did a cross country last summer and I think it would be very difficult to do only motels. You would have crazy scheduling, 30 miles one day and 130 the next to always stay in motels and that assumes that nothing goes wrong. I would not attempt it without at least minimal camping gear. Also, in the very popular national parks you will not be able to get a motel without advanced reservations and on a bike you can not really do that. There were lots of little towns without campgrounds and I camped in the city parks or courthouse lawns, motels are preferable there. Remember, the worst part of camping is usually the sleeping on the lumpy ground part, but when doing 60-70 miles a day, sleeping is no issue! I just listened to the weather forcast on the radio and went to a motel when the weather looked bad.
Leaving home the cooking gear is much easier and I think eating at restaurants and grocery stores lets you meet the locals easier.
Greg www.loa2004.crazyguyonabike.com

Nope. As in no-friggin-way. Has your friend added up the cost? If you can do 50 miles a day, every day, thats 60 nights in a hotel. Lets assume you'll stay in flea-ridden small town hotels away from the Interstates. Thats $40 a night, lets be optimistic and call it $20 per person per day for hotels. $1200. Meals, at 3 a day, 2 in restaurants (I'll assume your friend will eat snack food for lunch & not demand a restaurant meal). So 2 a day is $15 minimum. By eating cheap restaurant food & staying in cheap accomodation, you're looking at $35 * 60 = $2100 minimum, per person. Personally, I'd rather sleep on the ground and cook my own food. That is, mostly plan on camping and when you really need the break, when you really need the hot shower, spend a little extra on a nice meal & nice hotel room.

Remember he said that money was not the issue. Anyway I think that $2100 for an experience like this is a bargain. JMHO

Remember he said that money was not the issue. Anyway I think that $2100 for an experience like this is a bargain. JMHO

$2100 is not a bargain for 60 nights in the cheapest motels & restaurants you can find. In my opinion, that could be the definition of hell. I'll take the tent & stove over cheap motels in a heartbeat.

Depends on the cheap hotel. If they are clean and have a working shower, they look the same as an expenisve hotel when the lights are out and you are sleeping. Now if I had an unlimited supply of money, of course I would chose the best hotel I could find. I would take the camping gear because the routes I like to take don't have hotels on them quite often. Also relying on hotels means having to plan your stops. If money were no object, I would stay more often at hotels but not always at them. Hostels are a big hit or miss, you can have rowdy boy scouts keeping you awake all night or nice folks to chat with about your bike touring. Hostels are good when school is in and it isn't the weekend. As far as cooking gear, if money is not a factor, leave it at home and eat at resturants or food stores.

if your wife is not riding, and money is no object, why not have her follow you
in your 48' class-a motorhome?

That is a big sacrifice for a wife to make. She'll be stuck in a small mobile home probably bored out of her mind most of the time while making your dreams come true. If she is willing to do that, you better be willing to do whatever she wants for a few months.

I did a touring trip from London to Rome over the course of a month (1500 miles). Now then, i was there in Europe during that heat spell that killed a bunch of older folk who didnt have AC etc. We camped out every night, staying in hostels when we had the rare day off (3 nights in a hostel total - one in London, upon arrival, one in Montreux, Switzerland since we were going to the Jazz Festival, and one in Levanto, Italy since we spent the following day on the beach and there was some festival going on in town). Camping is a great way of getting to know people and can be quiter then being in a city during the night. Nothing like hearing the crickets at night...but i digress. The food we had (which we had to carry with us) was relatively good and varied each night. It also kept us healthy (no junk food or soda etc) and was better for cycling distances then anything else. You can always stop at a resturant or somewhere to eat for Lunch during a ride, always a good time to refill the water too. On those days off, eating at a Resturant made the food etc taste so much better since we had been deprived of it for so long. I wasnt uncomfortable at all when sleeping - bring a sleeping pad and set your tent up on the grass, not on the rocks, and you should be fine. And after a long day of riding, you'll find very little that will keep you up. We only slept in our tents on mayb 3 occasions - the first night we camped out in England, another night when we were near a river = mosquitos and the second to last night when it was raining. A 4th night we started outside, but then it began to rain in the middle of the night (always starts off slowly, so theres plenty of time to wake up and rush inside your tent - the girls always set up both their tents, but us guys only set up one of ours. That way, it was easier and faster to get going in the morning after breakfast.) Just my 2 cents worth.

That is a big sacrifice for a wife to make. She'll be stuck in a small mobile home probably bored out of her mind most of the time while making your dreams come true. If she is willing to do that, you better be willing to do whatever she wants for a few months.

Just to clarify. If my wife participates, it will be as a cyclist on our tandem, not a SAG wagon pilot. (Though I thoght the 48' motorhome idea wasn't so bad . . . ;-) If she doesn't participate, she will be doing whatever she wants to do instead.

Howdy -

What I sense here is something more than motels vs. camping. On the one hand, your friend could be throwing up obstacles because he doesn't really want to do it in the first place. Or on the other hand, it could be the opening act of a very tedious, two-month long opera of clashing wills.

It's hard to pull together the wherewithal - and it's a lot more than $$ - to do a two or three month tour. I have had lots of friends TALK about going, but very few who did go - and those only for a short time. The folks I have ridden the longest with are those that I have bumped into along the way.

There are times I have been in a tent when I wished I were in a warm, dry motel. And there are times I have been trying to get to sleep with the TV on in the next room when I asked myself why I was PAYING for this. The issue is whether or not you can do either. If you bike self-contained - then you can get a motel whenever you feel like it. If you bike without camping gear - then you are pretty well stuck with motels.

Just as there are lots of levels of accomodations from the Banff Springs Hotel to the Bates Motel - there are also lots of types of camping - from KOA to dispersed. And, let's face it, most front country campgrounds are noisy with little privacy. To get those REI advertisement views - you have to do remote camping - something I think your friend would be even less inclined to do.

There are some additonal issues when credit card cycling besides the awkward distances and costs. By definition, cars will get there faster and grab the available rooms. Those beautiful places that have three snow-free months often don't have that many motels. So you have to make reservations in advance than stick to the schedule. No fun when you're biking in the rain into a headwind. Also, I almost always get a later start when I stay in motels - it's just the nature of sleeping inside vs. sleeping outside. Even when I stay in my sleeping bag that extra half-hour in the chill of the morning - I am up and out earlier. Plus that morning snooze time in the tent is some of the most refreshing sleep I have ever had.

There are some incredible public-use forest service cabins across the Pacific Northwest. If you are touring on mountain bikes - you could work some of these in. And there are hostels - but my guess is that your friend wouldn't go for the dorm-like set up.

It sounds to me like you want to do this tour more than your friend does. I think you already know what you want to do. Offer to motel it whenever the weather looks bad or when a bed just seems called for. If your friend really does want to go - he will honor your wishes, too. Plan a tour that YOU want to do - make compromises - but be true to yourself.

Best - J

PS - And I would urge you to do some random camping in the middle of nowhere - just you and a stream and the woods. Isn't that what touring is all about?

$2100 is not a bargain for 60 nights in the cheapest motels & restaurants you can find. In my opinion, that could be the definition of hell. I'll take the tent & stove over cheap motels in a heartbeat.

I stayed at the cheapest motels I could find when I used them and they are typically owned and run by a family living in the end unit. They are the salt of the earth. I was invited over for coffee or a beer by many of them or other travelers with their own stories. I enjoyed these stays very much. The same goes for the little greasy spoon cafe across the street. If you want to find out about a town, talk to the waitress at one of these cafes. They know everything about and everyone in a little town. If you just go to campgrounds especially ones with the hiker / biker areas, you will meet a whole bunch of people that are very much like you. But if you want to get a real flavor of what it's like in little town Kansas, than try something else. A smile and friendly hello is usually all it take to get the locals to open up and share their day with you. Enjoy your trip. Greg

Howdy -

What I sense here is something more than motels vs. camping. On the one hand, your friend could be throwing up obstacles because he doesn't really want to do it in the first place. Or on the other hand, it could be the opening act of a very tedious, two-month long opera of clashing wills.

It's hard to pull together the wherewithal - and it's a lot more than $$ - to do a two or three month tour. I have had lots of friends TALK about going, but very few who did go - and those only for a short time. The folks I have ridden the longest with are those that I have bumped into along the way.

There are times I have been in a tent when I wished I were in a warm, dry motel. And there are times I have been trying to get to sleep with the TV on in the next room when I asked myself why I was PAYING for this. The issue is whether or not you can do either. If you bike self-contained - then you can get a motel whenever you feel like it. If you bike without camping gear - then you are pretty well stuck with motels.

Just as there are lots of levels of accomodations from the Banff Springs Hotel to the Bates Motel - there are also lots of types of camping - from KOA to dispersed. And, let's face it, most front country campgrounds are noisy with little privacy. To get those REI advertisement views - you have to do remote camping - something I think your friend would be even less inclined to do.

There are some additonal issues when credit card cycling besides the awkward distances and costs. By definition, cars will get there faster and grab the available rooms. Those beautiful places that have three snow-free months often don't have that many motels. So you have to make reservations in advance than stick to the schedule. No fun when you're biking in the rain into a headwind. Also, I almost always get a later start when I stay in motels - it's just the nature of sleeping inside vs. sleeping outside. Even when I stay in my sleeping bag that extra half-hour in the chill of the morning - I am up and out earlier. Plus that morning snooze time in the tent is some of the most refreshing sleep I have ever had.

There are some incredible public-use forest service cabins across the Pacific Northwest. If you are touring on mountain bikes - you could work some of these in. And there are hostels - but my guess is that your friend wouldn't go for the dorm-like set up.

It sounds to me like you want to do this tour more than your friend does. I think you already know what you want to do. Offer to motel it whenever the weather looks bad or when a bed just seems called for. If your friend really does want to go - he will honor your wishes, too. Plan a tour that YOU want to do - make compromises - but be true to yourself.

Best - J

PS - And I would urge you to do some random camping in the middle of nowhere - just you and a stream and the woods. Isn't that what touring is all about?


Best advise so far!

jamawani's response says it all...but I couldn't resist adding my 2c :

For years, you have each been dreaming separate dreams about this trip. It is natural that they not be identical. In your cases, though, if you travel together it seems unlikely that either one of you will end up riding his dream. That would be a shame, for there is only one "first time", only one time when bold determination and fear of the unknown combine with quite such effect. I think neither of you should put forth all that effort in doing something that so seriously mismatches his dream. Don't let regret become part of your memory of this important undertaking. Ride separately. Only then will you each connect, in his own way, with what's out there. Only then will you ride that last mile a different person from the one whose uncertain feet first set wheels to motion.

Both methods of touring are valid, depending on the individual. They each have their advantages and disadvantages. The problem I see here is not which is the best method. The problem is that you and your friend are unable to agree on a fundamental aspect of the tour. There is probably little compromise available. While in theory you could each agree to split camping and hotels, there will inevitably be arguments on the road over the issue.

I think meanderthal has the right idea. I'd would try to plan the trip so that you each do your own thing most nights and try to meet back up on the road. You could arrange to a time and place to meet up each morning, if possible, and ride until your accomodations require a split. Or, just pick a several dates where you agree to spend the night at the same place (hotel or camping). You'll each be able to ride at your own pace and do your own thing, yet still be able to share experiences and discuss events on the road. You'll also put your friendship less at risk.

going separately isn't really an option. we have been friends since high school and we are both comitted to the ride and will do whatever makes the most sense to make it happen together. I have no doubt we will have conflict before and along the way - that's the nature of touring and the nature of friendships. When all is said and done, we will likely do something in between (as has been suggested by some of the posts.) I am just trying to gauge others' thoughts on the merits of the two approaches to touring -- camping v. hotels.

Sleep in tent and eat in restaurants. Take hotels if they turn up at convenient points. If a storm suddenly comes up in the middle of the days ride, you can put up the tent and sit it out. Save the weight of the cooking equipment. The weight of the tent and tools can be shared between you.

My definite choice is to camp 5 days per week, and stay in "cheap" motels the rest of the time. In addition to saving huge sums of money, camping is usually a wonderful experience. Assuming your tent is set up properly and functions well, sleeping in a rain storm (even a thunderstorm) is pretty nice. The night sounds of owls, coyotes, and other critters add to the experience. You meet more interesting types of people. And your outdoor experience is total from morn till night. To me, it is sometimes a shame to end my riding day under a motel's flashing neon sign. I'd rather see the sunset or moon or forest waiting for me.

As days go on, it's as if the air, forest, sun, moon, stars, and wildlife become a part of you. You can almost feel them. And a new, more relaxed and invigorated outlook on life takes hold of your mind, body, and spirit.

Wolfy