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This is my first winter cycling, and last summer and fall I heard about people getting out their "beater bikes", but didn't understand why.
Now after a couple months of salt (EVIL) and snow, I get it. Thst sutff has ravaged my chain and rear cassette. I'm definitely going to need to replace the chain, and maybe the cassette, too.
So do ALL you guys have dedicated winter bikes that you just let get crapped up? If not, are there tricks to keeping that awfule salt from corroding the drive mechanism?
(I heard one interesting idea of using car wax, but haven't tried it as I'm not confident enough yet to take off the cassette.)
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My current winter bike is my ex-commuter bike. We get less salt and I guess it's somewhat less slushy here too, so winters are not so bad for the mechanics. I just keep the drivetrain lubed and relatively clean.
It's nice to have a winter bike with studded tyres permanently on. Makes leaving home in the mornings easier, as I don't have to change tyres / wheelsets.
--J
What do they do to the roads instead of salt? Plow and sand?
It's quite often too cold for the salt. Well, not THIS winter it hasn't been, but otherwise. Then it's plow and sand.
--J
My year-round commuter has internal gears, drum brakes, and a partially-enclosed chain. These features make it very resistant to salt and sand. I put the studded tires on in December and take them off in March. I do have a backup bike (always good to have a backup bike) but it is too fragile for routine winter commuting and clearly not a beater.
Given that my bike (including an upgrade to a hub dynamo) cost about $1,000, this is not the cheapest solution. If you do get a beater, I would suggest a singlespeed, since a good beater should be mechanically reliable.
Paul
i change out my wheelsets.
i mothball my Velocity Deep V ATB rims for a pair of low end performance rims.
my winter biking is confined to asphalt and a little gravel so i don't punish em.
It's just fun to have a bunch-o-bikes.
Sorry to introduce myself to this forum with an equipment rant, but I don’t really buy into this beater mentality the way most everyone else here does. The years that I used a bike with a bunch of cheaper parts, they just corroded faster since (1) I was a lot less likely to do maintenance and (2) generally the metal is lower grade.
The last few years I have actually been riding my freeride bike in the winter, hydraulic disks and full suspension, and by far the priciest bike I own. Toronto is the salt capital of the country, since nobody can stand the thought of snow tires on their car.
Is the salt bad for my bike? Probably. Have I noticed after three years? Hardly. I replaced a brake piston one spring that had some corrosion on it, but that may have had more to do with abuse during the previous summer. The chain eventually gets corroded, but come on, its a chain, and it's usually so stretched from pulling a 40lb bike with studded tires around that I have to replace it anyways in the spring. Better bikes have more aluminum, ti, etc and more corrosion-resistant steel. Wash all the salt off it when you get home, do the regular maintenance you should have been doing anyways, and it will be fine. Really.
The benefit is brakes that actually stop me when covered with snow, tires that hold the road, and a bike that I know isn’t going to crap out because I got it out of a dumpster somewhere. And I must say the suspension is nice when I hit god-knows-what-hazard lying on the road or trail under the snow. My real bike just seems safer to me, and a lot more fun.
My "beater" is my year round commuter. This is not to imply that it is a low quality bike, but it is built to be beat on. It doesn't have boutique parts that break when you look at them funny, or attract theives like flies to a steaming pile of crap. I select beater or comuter parts based this criteria: First, it has to be reliable, and relativly economical, Second, it should not be particularly new tech, or pretty.
I do make some changes to my bike for winter abuse. I remove the cassette and rear deraileur, and replace it an old toasted deraileur as a tensioner and a single cog. I sometimes throw on winter pedals, as they take abuse too. Everything else holds up OK, you just have to give it more frequent maintenance. I'll usually have to replace the hub cones after a winter of riding, for example.
>The last few years I have actually been riding my freeride bike in the winter, hydraulic disks and full >suspension,
I've been thinking about hydraulic discs in the winter. How do they hold up? It would be awesome to have brakes that work consistantly in the slop. I wouldn't mind putting one on the front of my bike if I was confident it would last. How much maintenance do you do on those brakes? How often do they require bleeding, pads, rotors, etc?
NOPE I have two bikes I use all year round and switch the tires on one for winter the only thing is the chain that gets rust the cogs are fine and clean up easy besides I change my chain in the spring once a year do to the stretch and mile's I put on it BUT if I did not have a safe place to lock up my bike inside I would get a beater due to the crack heads stealing bikes like mad here..Steeker
About the discs, I have Y2K Hayes Mags, the old ’champagne’ set, and they have required almost no maintenance. I replaced one front piston, 30 bucks or so, in 2002, and have bled the front a few times. The back brake, over it’s five-year run, has required absolutely no maintenance whatsoever. I bled it once as a make-work project. Pads last about a year on average, for the hard compound hayes pads, six months for the softer compound pads that MEC sells for cheap.
The braking power is pretty good in the snow, and the feel of the brakes doesn’t change much from 30C to -30C. I have a 160mm Rotor in the back that loses a bit of grab when there is a lot of slush on it, but the 205mm rotor in the front is better. I actually enclosed the front rotor in one of those disc covers that T.H.E. Products made a few years back, which keeps it dry enough that it feels like it does in the summer and doesn’t squeal in deeper slush.
Not everyone’s experience has been as good with hayes cheaper brakes though... The HFX brakes have had some people filing grievances on some of the DH and freeride forums. The Avid cable discs however, have no shortage of glowing endorsements. My dad used them on his freeride rig and they grab pretty well when wet as well.
Probably all of my bikes are beaters in some peoples minds. I use my older Trek 4300 for the snow,slush, ice. I also ride it in the summer as well.
I'm a strong opponent of the "winter beater bike." You need a good bike in the winter even more than in nice weather. You just need to maintain it. After every messy ride, wipe down the bike. Concentrate on the drive train. Drip (don't spray) chain lube on the links. Even if you have to replace the chain, they're cheap. I just bought two for $13 each from Nashbar.
Probably all of my bikes are beaters in some peoples minds. I use my older Trek 4300 for the snow,slush, ice. I also ride it in the summer as well.
Word.
The winter riding I've done has been on my 12 year old Bianchi mtn bike. My road bike is an 80-something Fuji 12 speed. We haven't been on the Tandem since Thanksgiving. My girlfriend has primarily been riding her '69 Schwinn Typhoon, but thats her favorite bike in the summer too (the road bike only gets used for workouts, the mtn bike hardly at all).
I'm just amazed at what the salt has done to my chain and rear cassette. The body of the bike seems fine, and I haven't noticed anthying weird about the rims.
Yep, When I mean beater I mean a tough bike, not a cheap one. I don't change components, I just clean them regularly with citrus degreaser. Than actually removes most of the rust. I also try to lube regularly so stuff can't freeze up.
I'm a strong opponent of the "winter beater bike." You need a good bike in the winter even more than in nice weather. You just need to maintain it. After every messy ride, wipe down the bike. Concentrate on the drive train. Drip (don't spray) chain lube on the links. Even if you have to replace the chain, they're cheap. I just bought two for $13 each from Nashbar.
I have to echo Daily Commute...
I want my winter bike to be reliable... I really don't want to break down at -30c.
You've all heard my "ride a decent bike" rant here ... I agree with ghettocruiser 100%
(just wanted to get a halleliuya (sp?) in there ....)
Good gear lasts longer and never fails to please you no matter what the conditions.
[QUOTE=ghettocruiser]About the discs, I have Y2K Hayes Mags, the old ’champagne’ set, and they have required almost no maintenance.
That's really impressive. I find my V brakes are really poor in the cold, they don't modulate well. When it is wet, things get way worse, for the first 2 or 3 wheel revolutions, almost no response, then they grab really hard. In snow or on ice this is dangerous. Then there is the rim wear. Even though I don't brake very often, the pads are always scuffing the rim, especially on the back. I can wear through a rear rim in one winter. With the experience you've had, sounds like discs are a practical option. Any opinions on the mechanical discs? I had seen some positive reviews of the avids.
I'm thinking of building up an aluminum MTB frame I have lying around with some discs for next winter. Probably single speed.
Right on with the V-brakes. I noticed that in temps below maybe 25 or 20F, it seems like the rubber just gets too hard to modulate, like you said. And have you ever ridden through any amount of water in low temps? The water freezes on the rims in an instant. I need a trick to get ice off the rims while on a ride. Should I carry a lighter or something?
I don't ride a beater in the winter. I ride my only bike, which is rather junky and beaterish any time of the year!
Try spraying lock de-icer while riding or just pull over and do it.
I actually purchased a new Norco Scrambler back in 2001 rather then use an old beater. This is a relatively low to medium end bike and if I remember correctly it cost me around $359 CDN at the time.
My thinking was that I like to ride through the woods in the winter and as much as possible I would rather avoid a breakdown if possible since the effects of a breakdown in the winter are potentially much harsher then in the summer months.
That bike has worked well for me every since. I clean the chain and replace the chain yearly but that's about it for yearly replaceables. The bike is also used in the summer with a tire switch as a loaner bike for friends who would like to go for a ride with me in the woods but don't have a good bike themselves.
~Jamie N
Wash all the salt off it when you get home, do the regular maintenance you should have been doing anyways, and it will be fine.
This is exactly why I have a beater winter fixie with fenders.
I ride it and leave it in the garage until next ride. Maybe once every couple weeks I'll add a few drops of oil to the chain.
No cleaning, no components to check, no worries....
Enjoy
I echo the sentiments os others: I ride a fairly nice bike in the winter. In my case a cyclocross bike. Regarding drive train wear and tear, the salt and sand are definite problems for the chain and cogset. But those parts need to be changed every season if you ride any real milage anyways. I wouldn't want to ride a 10 cog dura-ace cogset and chain, I guess, but cheap/nice bikes will need the same parts and they will cost roughly the same.
For what it's worth, some people go with a fixed gear in the winter. The simplicity and control on a fixie is unparalleled. I have been thinking about them, but my wife will be hacked because that is why I bought the cx bike.
After every messy ride, wipe down the bike. Concentrate on the drive train.
Is plain water best, or some kind of soap? I was using some warm water with SimpleGreen the other week-end, and my wife says "Should you be using that? It says it cuts grease, that doesn't seem like a good idea for the chain.", and I said, "Ummm, uh, gee, uh, I dunno!"
I'm especially having problems with my front dereilleur currently. Today I'm locked into mid-range again.
Just one really nice, fast bike. I don't have the bandwith to maintain a bunch of bikes. 1 stall, one bike and some spare wheels and parts. That's it.
Is plain water best, or some kind of soap? I was using some warm water with SimpleGreen the other week-end, and my wife says "Should you be using that? It says it cuts grease, that doesn't seem like a good idea for the chain.", and I said, "Ummm, uh, gee, uh, I dunno!"
I'm especially having problems with my front dereilleur currently. Today I'm locked into mid-range again.
i've been using simple green forever, and i've never had a problem with the parts. when i take my chain off, i soak it in a mix of water and simple green for a couple of hours. once it's dry, just put on your favorite chain lube and the chain is as clean as new. simple green is great stuff...can't say enough good things about it.
I'm a strong opponent of the "winter beater bike." You need a good bike in the winter even more than in nice weather. You just need to maintain it. After every messy ride, wipe down the bike. Concentrate on the drive train. Drip (don't spray) chain lube on the links. Even if you have to replace the chain, they're cheap. I just bought two for $13 each from Nashbar.
By your logic I'd be cleaning my bike just about every couple of days. I don't want to fart around that much with my winter commute, thus it's 'beater' for me. I just picked up a new 'beater' this year, a 2004 Norco Mountaineer for $240cdn. Sure it has ultra cheap components like the tourney drivetrain, and SR Suntour crankset and fork (with steel lowers!) but it has been 100% trouble free all winter. The bike is covered in gunk, the chain and cogs are a mix of rust and fresh oil, any steel bolts have a nice brown color to them, and I don't care! It's great! If I was riding either my XC bike or my CX bike I'd be constantly worrying about what I'm trashing and how much it costs to fix. On my beater I'll replace the chain and cogs in the spring for about $25, versus tripple that for my good bikes. I plan on riding this bike for as many winters as it will last, and it will make a good summer commuter for when I'm going places where I would worry about getting my good bikes stollen.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that to me 'beater' means: cheap, reliable, easy to fix for not a lot of $, and something you don't worry about.
I don't use a beater. Then again, there aren't too many winter days here in So. AZ. I do have a fluid trainer in order to eliminate the excuses regarding weather or darkness.
I will echo the sentiment that it's totally impractical to clean the bike after every messy ride. That would mean I'm spending almost an hour every day wiping sand out of all the crannies on the frame and cleaning between all the spokes. This is totally impractical for me. I lube my chain about every week, but my components are definitely paying for the conditions My front derailleur is barely recognizable sometimes under all the layers of sludge and salt. I haven't been able to get to the granny gear lately, but I never use it so I'll probably address that during a spring cleaning *after* the roads are cleaned up. Keeping the bike clean is senseless, because 5 minutes into your next ride it will be covered in sand and salt. For me that is every day.
Depends how long your commute is. Mine is 9 miles each way. Bit far to derive myself the pleasure of a decent bike. I don't do the beater.
Depends how long your commute is. Mine is 9 miles each way. Bit far to derive myself the pleasure of a decent bike. I don't do the beater.
My commute is similar(20milesRT) but we get the road salt. You seem to bike in Ireland, salt?? Also a beater just has to be cheap not a crappy bike. I ride an old Stumpjumper w/ XT comps. Does the trick with reasonable comfort and speed.
I will echo the sentiment that it's totally impractical to clean the bike after every messy ride. That would mean I'm spending almost an hour every day wiping sand out of all the crannies on the frame and cleaning between all the spokes. This is totally impractical for me. I lube my chain about every week, but my components are definitely paying for the conditions My front derailleur is barely recognizable sometimes under all the layers of sludge and salt. I haven't been able to get to the granny gear lately, but I never use it so I'll probably address that during a spring cleaning *after* the roads are cleaned up. Keeping the bike clean is senseless, because 5 minutes into your next ride it will be covered in sand and salt. For me that is every day.
Hey recursive, glad to see I'm not the only one! My drive train was getting to look, sound, and run like crap. But what can you do? That whole mecahanism is just out there exposed to the elements and if you ride everyday, well . . . it's gonna get dirty!
Fenders and a long mud flap make a huge difference, even enough to change the life of components.
For what it's worth, I do have fenders, but they are MTB style, so they are keeping me dry much longer, but I dont' know how much difference it's making on the frame. I don't have any mud flaps currently. My plan is just to keep riding until the roads are clean again unless it totally breaks down. At that point, I will clean the living hell out of it and I will get it tuned up and get anything replaced that needs to be. (possibly the whole drive train)
I'll stick with my cheep bike for now. I'm not sure that spending big bucks on
something else will result in better -40 degree rides. I might consider getting
a low geared fixed gear bike for those conditions however.
Fenders and a long mud flap make a huge difference, even enough to change the life of components.
Yeah, I don't have fenders and that's a bit of a problem. Yesterday it was snowing and I wanted to ride a bit, but so much junk got thrown back on the rear wheel and the brake just froze up after about 15 minutes. There was ice all along the exposed part of the rear derailleur cable too. Fenders are definitely a good idea in the snow, eh?
My two pence worth:
I've been cycling to work year round for 12 years. That is scary enough as it is. In that time I have developed and used various transportation plans depending of course on the variables; weather, distance and time.
I rarely ride my best bike in the winter. As stated before by other members, the muck does a job on every moving part.
This winter I had to revise my plan because my work is now in a suburban area and I live downtown. In the summer I ride the 25 km to work and back. In the winter I have two beaters fastened to various post and rings and fences. The beater I take from home sleeps in a warm place, so that is not a problem. My satellite bike spends the entire winter fastened to a chain link fence in improbable cold. That one is an old BMX. The first year I did this, frost was a real problem. In the morning the only gear I would have would be the one I left it in the night before. Everything was frozen solid. Then I discovered the wonders of WD-40. It is not a lubricant, but it frees up frozen parts like magic. I now spray it down cables, on the chain and just about everywhere else. I may arrive at work smelling like I have a 'solvent problem', but I don't need to pedal there in first gear either.
. . . WD-40 . . .
Hey that's an interesting idea. So do you use it on parts that actually have ice on them? It doesn't actually melt the ice, does it?
Hmm, I'm thinking I could carry some of that with we on snowy recreation rides and use it to loosen up the rear derailleur and rear brakes if necessary.
Now after a couple months of salt (EVIL) and snow, I get it. Thst sutff has ravaged my chain and rear cassette. I'm definitely going to need to replace the chain, and maybe the cassette, too.
Some basic econ here. That chain and cassette can probably go on a super-star or a barge. Maybe the question is, how can I get a cassette and chain that is resistant to salt and other road-jazz.
Be careful with WD-40 you can really damage your bike with it. It will wash grease out of things that need thick grease in them. Then they will not be properly lubricated.
You won't notice right away but they will wear out too fast due to lack or grease.
The freewheel/free hub, chain, Bottom bracket, wheel bearings, headset, are some places to not spray WD-40. You can wash grease off your hands with WD-40 imagine what it does to things that need thick grease or chain lube. It washes them off too.
You can do this and go for quite a while before you notice a problem. I understand too that if you need to de-ice the bike to get going and you have no choice then you do it. And you can get a new chain anytime you want too. I just wanted to bring this up in case you wanted to consider it. If you need to load WD -40 on your bike it may be what you need in your case. Every situation can be different.
I've never put WD-40 on brake shoes or the brake surface on rims, but you don't want anything slippery like oil on braking surfaces. On snowy rides I use high clearance motocross style, but full coverage fenders. In snow the front brake gets icy, but the front wheel makes a path for the back wheel pushing the snow and slush away and the brakes and rims on the back rarely have problems. My tire is a lot wider than the rims, that may help keep the snow off the back rim. I think the good fender clearance on the back wheel keeps a lot of snow off the back brake area too. I did run close fenders for a while and did have your problem with the back brakes.
The long front fender keeps the chain and drivetrain going a lot longer than without. Keeps the feet dry too if you are careful.
Yes it's ugly. :)
Some basic econ here. That chain and cassette can probably go on a super-star or a barge. Maybe the question is, how can I get a cassette and chain that is resistant to salt and other road-jazz.
By getting fenders that keep a lot of the stuff off them. You need a good mud flap that goes almost to the ground too. Most of the dirt is from the front wheel. If reduces that wear on many things.
My current winter bike is my ex-commuter bike. We get less salt and I guess it's somewhat less slushy here too, so winters are not so bad for the mechanics. I just keep the drivetrain lubed and relatively clean.
It's nice to have a winter bike with studded tyres permanently on. Makes leaving home in the mornings easier, as I don't have to change tyres / wheelsets.
--J Thats Great, I just bought a 2004 Trek 3900 left over for $240. an I was thinking I will just switch some of the parts over to it fenders, stud's and make it my winter beater bike. Know you got me thinking. I'm going to keep the 4300 Trek and rebuild it to make it my nasty weather bike studded tires and all. I will save the 3900 for cleaner trips. It will be nice to have that option between studded and unstudded. Thanks
Thats Great, I just bought a 2004 Trek 3900 left over for $240. an I was thinking I will just switch some of the parts over to it fenders, stud's and make it my winter beater bike. Know you got me thinking. I'm going to keep the 4300 Trek and rebuild it to make it my nasty weather bike studded tires and all. I will save the 3900 for cleaner trips. It will be nice to have that option between studded and unstudded. Thanks
Good decision. it's very handy. Better than switching tires or equipment. As you say, if you don't need the studs don't use them. You get more miles out of the studs if you don't ride on days when it's dry and clean. Having another bike is great if you wake up with a flat in the morning. Or if that new part is not in stock to fix one of your bikes. etc.
By getting fenders that keep a lot of the stuff off them. You need a good mud flap that goes almost to the ground too. Most of the dirt is from the front wheel. If reduces that wear on many things.
Agreed and btw...your steed (bike) totally rocks in my book.
Agreed and btw...your steed (bike) totally rocks in my book.
Thank you. :)
In person the fenders are not as nice looking as a straight side view, but I don't mind.
I bought it new in 1994. So far I have replaced one freewheel, one chain, one rear derailleur. That's it.
I will echo the sentiment that it's totally impractical to clean the bike after every messy ride. That would mean I'm spending almost an hour every day wiping sand out of all the crannies on the frame and cleaning between all the spokes. This is totally impractical for me. I lube my chain about every week, but my components are definitely paying for the conditions My front derailleur is barely recognizable sometimes under all the layers of sludge and salt. I haven't been able to get to the granny gear lately, but I never use it so I'll probably address that during a spring cleaning *after* the roads are cleaned up. Keeping the bike clean is senseless, because 5 minutes into your next ride it will be covered in sand and salt. For me that is every day.
Is plain water best, or some kind of soap? I was using some warm water with SimpleGreen the other week-end, and my wife says "Should you be using that? It says it cuts grease, that doesn't seem like a good idea for the chain.", and I said, "Ummm, uh, gee, uh, I dunno!"
I'm especially having problems with my front dereilleur currently. Today I'm locked into mid-range again.
I usually just use a dry rag. That get's 95% off. If needed, I use soap and water, Oranj Peelz degreaser, or, on the chain, a little more lube. This takes just a few minutes. And it's worth it to have a year-round reliable bike.
I usually just use a dry rag. That get's 95% off. If needed, I use soap and water, Oranj Peelz degreaser, or, on the chain, a little more lube. This takes just a few minutes. And it's worth it to have a year-round reliable bike.
I agree again. :)
You don't want to spray the bike if you can help it, in case you push water into places it does not belong. I found a nice soft brush that does the same thing as the dry rag. Get most of the big stuff off first. It's easy and fast. Then if the bike is very dirty I would use a wet clean rag with soap or a sponge well squeezed out. That way you get water and soap on the dirt but there is not much force to push it into bearings or cables. Once you get a routine going it's pretty fast. I happen to use long fenders with a long mud flap so I can have a nice bike as a snow bike and it looks almost like it did when I got it. It's OK to get a little on the outside of the chain. But don't get the chain wet so that water can soak in. It's a little better for the chain to spin the pedals backwards and grab the chain with a rag and wipe it as it goes through. A dry rag is fine. Then lube the chain a little.
Theres lots of ways to go about this, but that's what I do.
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