Commuting - Euro-style City Bikes

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cdale street, specialized globe? Not sure on the prices though.

The new specialized globe has a derailleur system, not an internal hub. I've got a Trek L-400, it's a really nice bike, but I've also got friends that are crazy about the Breezers. Several differences between these two bikes:

Breezer - 26" wheels, better headlight (B&M oval) and dynohub (3.0 watt), non-adjustable stem.
Trek L-300 - 700c wheels, adjustable stem, not so good headlight (beam isn't focused well), more effort to remove rear wheel due to fully enclosed chainguard, may only have 2.4 watt dynohub rather than 3.0 watt (?) - this means you can't run both a taillight and a headlight off of the dyno.

You should also be able to get a Kettler in the US, but dealers are hard to find, I ordered one for my wife direct from the distributor a few years ago, not sure you can still do that. Might be out of your price range, too. http://www.kettler.net/articles/20040312135000000184/index.html

Biria is also importing bikes in this style to the US. http://www.biria.com/bicycles/

Joe Breeze's on a crusade to change the shape of cycling in this country. (Hey, he's done it before, so who knows, right??)

Anyhow, I don't know that he'll be successful but maybe the impending baby-boom mobility crisis will light a fire under his company. In the meantime, I would like to own one. I probably wouldn't ride it much because it doesn't really match my style, but it does look like the bees knees for a comfort bike.

I’m thinking that one day I’d like my knock-around bike to be a European-Style city bike. I’d like an internally-geared hub, compact frame, rack and fenders. Lighting systems are an added bonus but not necessary. These bikes ain’t cheap, but...Anything else out there fit the bill for under $800?[/b]

Consider, if you can find, a cheap R/T airline ticket to Germany, preferably one that allows shipment of a bike as one piece of luggage, buy the bike of your choice and bring it back possibly for $ 800 or less for the entire package. As an extra bonus spend some time touring by bike, train or both.

I bought this 7speed Sachs/SRAM with Coaster hub, lights, fenders, rack, basket, pump, kick stand, 28' X 1.75" (622 x 47 or 700c x 47) tires on aluminum rims, etc for DM268 ($130 at the time, probably about $200 today's exchange rate) in 2000 or 2001. The only significant extra expense was for a decent seat to replace the original and additional lighting. This is a bike built for comfortable, reliable all weather cycling for city/suburban trips. The price was so cheap that I bought a matching girls model just in case my wife might get interested. I use mine daily now in the US all year round.

Bianchi Milano seems to hit all the right notes.

I’m thinking that one day I’d like my knock-around bike to be a European-Style city bike. I’d like an internally-geared hub, compact frame, rack and fenders.
Trek L300

A little cheaper and available through my FBS.


Anything else out there fit the bill for under $800?


You might take a look at the Trek L200. It is a $100 less than the L300 and w/o superfluous (for commuting on the street) suspension components. It does have a lot of nice features and should be available locally. I was pleasantly surprised to see it offered in the US; I'd seen similar Trek model sold in Germany years ago. Prices aren't as good as overseas, but both the Breezer and Trek certainly deliver more city/street bicycling value for $800-900 than the same money gets in the techno-weenie road bike aisle of the typical US LBS.

I've seen and closely examined (but not ridden the Breezer Uptown). It looks like a very suitable bike, and has the advantage of being sold through "normal channels" here in the US. It is built in Taiwan (a free country) and based on a mountain bike frame. There are other bikes available like my Kettler, but getting these involves a lot of scouting around, searching the net, or direct importation. I'd also agree that buying such a bike is likely to cost much less than building up something from components. I've researched both options.

Having ridden thousands of miles at night withe battery lights, a sidewall generator, and a hub dynamo, the extra cost of the hub unit is no problem for me. If you want one, it is cheapest to buy a bike that already has it, although retrofitting one, as I did, is not dificult.

I do find it frustrating that theswe, the most useful sort of bikes are the only kind of bike that is difficult to find in the US. They are out there however. In particular, the Breezers have been much more succesful in the marketplace than anyone expected.

In many urban areas where parking is tight, a 1-10 mile trip involves a choice of 1) drive and circle the block for 20 minutes, 2) call a taxi, 3) have your own chauffeur to drop you of and pick you up, or 4) have one of these. I think that situation offers some hope for increasing availability -- at least in major cities.

Paul

FWIW......The Trek L200 captures the flavor of the Euro bikes the
best. Being a non-suspension bike adds greatly to the durablity of
the bike. Check out this site for a look at Dutch bikes. (The Dutch
ride bikes like we use cars.)

http://www.cycle-heaven.co.uk/gazelle.html

FWIW.....Check out this site for a look at Dutch bikes. (The Dutch
ride bikes like we use cars.)

http://www.cycle-heaven.co.uk/gazelle.html

If anyone knows of a legitimate importer of new Gazelle or Batavius NL bikes to the US, please post, or send me a private message.

Steven M. Scharf has a good site about commuter bikes:
Commuter Bicycles available in the U.S. (http://nordicgroup.us/commutebike/)

I have a Breezer villager, which I like, I will probably change the handlebars and I have an extra battery light as I don't like the generator drag when climbing hills.

The Shimano 7 speed internal hub is sweet. You could get the Shimano hub from someplace like Harris Cyclery and modify an existing bike to make your perfect commuter.

Check out the Novarra Fusion at REI.

European-style city bikes make the most sense in, well, European-style cities. I test rode a high-end Breezer once. It was a nice smooth ride, but it was a pain to get it up hills, and the geometry made me feel like I was sitting upright in church. I imagine this type of bike design makes much more sense for rides in relatively flat areas, like the Netherlands.

I was intrigued by the Bianchi Castro Valley (http://www.bianchiusa.com/607.html) but it isn't available locally yet.

If anyone knows of a legitimate importer of new Gazelle or Batavius NL bikes to the US, please post, or send me a private message.

While I don't know of any importers (DARN!) I used the site to help me convert my
bike to a Dutch style commuter that is a great ride. For some reason new commuters
seem to like drop bars.(?????)

Or maybe make sense for getting around in Chicago, or NYC, or Philadelphia, or Washington, DC? Or any other reasonably level city/urban locations where a significant number of people live and might actually consider cycling for relatively short utility/commuter trips.

No type of bicycle will be considered by people, that are not interested in becoming athletes/passionate cycling enthusiasts, as "sensible" for frequent utility/commuter trips in extremely hilly locations.

If I recall correctly the original poster was looking for a European-style city bike for "knock-around bike" trips, not for tackling the hills of S.F. or training rides in the suburbs of San Diego.

I split my commute between a Dahon 3 speed (with a chain guard) and a Trek mountain bike (traditional 21 speed drive train). Both work equally well on my short, flat ride. The biggest difference I notice is the lack of a chain guard on the Trek. On the Trek, I am constantly tucking my pants into my sock to avoid catching it in the chain. A good chain guard is on my list of required equipment for any commuter/city bike.

In that case, enjoy.

A note on the Gazelles: Gazelle is afraid to import their bikes into the United States because of our product liability laws. (See the Google Answer (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=192237) on this). Thus, there aren't likely to be any "official" dealerships or importers here; just a couple of guys who buy and import them independently without any discounts from Gazelle.

I’m thinking that one day I’d like my knock-around bike to be a European-Style city bike. I’d like an internally-geared hub, compact frame, rack and fenders. Lighting systems are an added bonus but not necessary.

These bikes ain’t cheap, but building up a Surly Karate Monkey will cost even more.

Here’s what’s at the top of my list:

Breezer Uptown

The Breezer has pretty much everything I’m looking for. The dyno hub is cool but adds cost to an already pricey bike.
http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/uptown-d.jpg

Trek L300

A little cheaper and available through my FBS.
http://www2.trekbikes.com/Assets/Bikes/Specialty_Bikes/Trekking/L300/asset_upload_file937_3726.jpg

Anything else out there fit the bill for under $800?

The Trek looks better constructed with a larger chain guard and rear wheel guard. I also like the 27 inch wheel because it's more efficient than a 26 inch. I'm impressed with Trek's bike but I'd still support Breezer because he was first and now everyone is copying!

On Friday I test rode the Breezer Uptown and the Townie. As cool as I think the Townies are, I guess it turns out that the "Flat Foot" thing isn't all that important to me. I like faster, smoother bikes.

The Townie was a 3s with the Shimano 3 speed hub while the Uptown has the "premium" 8 speed. The difference was night and day. The Breezer blew away the Townie's performance in every respect. Comparatively, the Townie drove like a tank.

Later that evening I rode a Trek 7100 with 700c wheels that a neighbor bought for his wife. Now that is a ride I could come to really love. Smooth, comfortable and fast.

I looked up the frame specs on the 7100 vs. the L300 and I was surprised to discover they are, in fact, different. The L300 is a longer, taller frame with slacker head tube and seat tube angles. I imagine this translates to a slightly less nimble bike with an emphasis on comfort. I expect with the "standard" Shimano 8 hub it might not feel quite as smooth as the Breezer, but the 700c wheels should help overcome that.

I'm going to try to track down an L300 to demo...

The Townie is a beach cruiser and should be compared with bikes in that catagory. It compares with beach crusers bikes like the Bianchi Milano or Trek's Clyde. The beach cruiser is the slowest bike in production and it's unfair to compare them with a traditional hybrid town bike. I suspect, what you really need is a road bike. If you like the Trek 7100 and consider it comfortable, then that's the way to go. Only a recreational rider would even consider a Townie.

I still think the Townie needs further development. If they could make the frame lighter, (under 25lbs) and use higher pressure tires, it might have some potential.

I hate to dredge up old threads, but this one discusses the exact two bikes I'm considering, the Breezer Uptown and the Trek L300 (or maybe L200). How can I find more info on these bikes? I have a Trek paper catalog and I've searched their web site, but there's still some missing information. I still don't know what kind of lights they use. And whether or not they have a standlight or lights that stay on after stopping. Breezer's site is a little better. I know that they use Lumotec Oval with standlight on the front, but I don't know what they use on the back. And I'm not certain if either bike powers the tailight with the dyno. Also, do either of these bikes have an integrated locking system? If so, what does it lock? It's a shame that I can't find these type of bikes around here to check out. If I wanted to check out a $5000 road bike, no problem.

BeeTL, did you ever track down an L300 to test?

Also, I have seen it mentioned here and elsewhere that front suspensions are not necessary for commuting. I don't know about you, but I encounter more rough riding during my commute than during group rides on my road bike. I would probably love a front suspension. Why wouldn't this be good?

All the Treks I've seen come with "Radius" headlamps. They cast a diffuse, rather than a focused beam. I replaced mine with a Lumotech Oval Plus, it casts a much better focused beam. My Trek also has a battery taillamp, not sure if the newer Treks still do or if they've switched to a dynamo powered taillight?

West Marine has a great lookin folder for 519$ in the catalog

Ya know this thread could go on forever but it will do no good. LBS & bicycle
makers (except custom) all want you to be a Lance wanna be and buy their
bikes. :mad:

It will take millions of utility bicycle owners or potential owners to get the
makers to get their head out of the sand and see that there IS a real market
for good ol' utility /town / commter mule type do it all work bikes like the Dutch
ride is what folks' would really like to buy .............at a resonable price ......in steel.

Trek may be rewarded IF they make a steel utility town bike that is super dependable
and rideable for Joe & Jane Average. Gas prices will, in time, force more mass transportation
and the use of bicycles for urban uses just as before. That said, the maker there first with the
right bicycle will..........win the lions share of the market. Lance is a nice guy but not everyone
know who he is.......or cares. They just want a simple bicycle to ride.

I also like the 27 inch wheel because it's more efficient than a 26 inch.

Nonsense!

The 26" will be better in every way, except for that very rare situation when you're in your highest gear and can't spin your legs fast enough. Can't see that happening on a commuter bike in a city...

LBS & bicycle
makers (except custom) all want you to be a Lance wanna be and buy their
bikes.

A pleasant exception to this general rule is City Bikes, (http://citybikes.com/site/intro.cfm) a LBS here in DC, that stocks...well, city bikes. They stock all the Breezers, the Bianchi Milano and Castro Valley, the Specialized Globe, and one or two others that I'm forgetting now. They also sell a good selection of cross and touring bikes, and their staff can actually answer questions like "can I put fenders on this?" with knowing authority.

Despite what I said on this thread six months ago, I now ride a city bike. I got myself a Specialized Globe. What sold me on it is that it has 27 speeds, which was enough to satisfy my ugly American tastes. Yeah, I know, I don't get an internal hub, but I have some serious hills to contend with on my commute, and after a long day at the office I have no shame in reaching for granny gears. For a non-mechanic like me, buying a single bike that already comes with fenders (with two red rear lights built in!), a headlight, generator hubs, a bell, a kickstand and rat-trap rack (just like I had when I was a kid!) and one of those ridiculous rear-wheel-immobilizing built in locks is worth it. I may go 2-3 mph slower than when I was using a road bike, but if I was in this for the speed I'd be commuting on a time trial bike. Also, other bike commuters actually compliment me on my ride, something that NEVER happened before.

As for steel, I really don't think bikes like these lose anything by being made of aluminum.

"As for steel, I really don't think bikes like these lose anything by being made of aluminum."

ANY reference to "steel" is prompted by the long life of steel and its ability to absorb vibration
at a lower cost when compared to aluminum, carbon fiber or titanium.

To me that just makes steel a superior material to build bicycle frames from.

No more, no less. ;) ;)

Speaking from real life experience, I have a thing or two to say about the true Euro City bike. My own original ride is an "old" 1968 Phillips 3 speed with steel frame and Sturmey-Archer AW three speed hub. It is still hard to believe that it is almost 40 years old. It has proven itself time and time again with reliable, smooth rides over sometimes harsh conditions. I would not trade it for any phony overly polished and priced aluminium frame imitation. People are so quick to settle for glam and glitter. Not true inner beauty.

I like this bike so much that my new folding bike is patterned after the Phillips. In the UK, it is even known to be advertised as the Phillips Boardwalk.

It is too bad that you can't get one of these Finnish Bikes. They are both solid and good bikes for around the city. Good luck in your seach!

Speaking from real life experience, I have a thing or two to say about the true Euro City bike. My own original ride is an "old" 1968 Phillips 3 speed with steel frame and Sturmey-Archer AW three speed hub. It is still hard to believe that it is almost 40 years old. It has proven itself time and time again with reliable, smooth rides over sometimes harsh conditions. I would not trade it for any phony overly polished and priced aluminium frame imitation. People are so quick to settle for glam and glitter. Not true inner beauty.
I don't find your comments hard to believe at all. My wife frequently uses an English made 1960 AMF Hercules with an SA 3 speed we bought at yard sale at least 14 years ago for $5. The only maintenance required has been new tires and a few drops of oil in the hub.

Bullet proof bikes for those commuters underwhelmed by overpriced high-tech fenderless racerboy simulators.

I don't find your comments hard to believe at all. My wife frequently uses an English made 1960 AMF Hercules with an SA 3 speed we bought at yard sale at least 14 years ago for $5. The only maintenance required has been new tires and a few drops of oil in the hub.

Bullet proof bikes for those commuters underwhelmed by overpriced high-tech fenderless racerboy simulators.

Gasp!!!! Can I believe my eyes????!!!!! There is some truth here on 'bikeforums' after all!!!!
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Is it possible that there are others that don't buy into the racerboy fantasy and just want a bicycle
that can be used for real everyday task??????

I sure hope so!!!!!!! :beer: :beer: :beer:

Hmmmmmm.......
Now just how much was that new "Worksman" gonna cost me??????? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Gasp!!!! Can I believe my eyes????!!!!! There is some truth here on 'bikeforums' after all!!!!
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Is it possible that there are others that don't buy into the racerboy fantasy and just want a bicycle
that can be used for real everyday task??????

I sure hope so!!!!!!! :beer: :beer: :beer:

Hmmmmmm.......
Now just how much was that new "Worksman" gonna cost me??????? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What "racerboy fantasy"?The "truth" is that most people in the U.S. don't ride bikes for utility reasons, so they don't market many utility bikes here. Different bikes are for different tasks. The bikes are out there if people want them, but apparently the market won't sustain them yet.

What "racerboy fantasy"?The "truth" is that most people in the U.S. don't ride bikes for utility reasons, so they don't market many utility bikes here. Different bikes are for different tasks. The bikes are out there if people want them, but apparently the market won't sustain them yet.


What a load of pure smelly hogwash!! To even hint that the "only" people who buy bikes in this
country actually "want' the racerboy crap and mountainboy crap is rediculious. :roflmao: :roflmao:

There ARE people out there (I'm one) who would like to be able to walk into a LBS and have a
selection of utility bikes to choose from instead of the racerboy junk they have now. I have to
build my own bike because the a$$hole manufactures will not make them for me and if they
did the local LBS WON'T carry them :mad: :mad:

So get real here. There are other folk's out there who want a choice of bikes that are not all
about racing of any kind.........dirt or otherwise.

What a load of pure smelly hogwash!! To even hint that the "only" people who buy bikes in this
country actually "want' the racerboy crap and mountainboy crap is rediculious. :roflmao: :roflmao:

There ARE people out there (I'm one) who would like to be able to walk into a LBS and have a
selection of utility bikes to choose from instead of the racerboy junk they have now. I have to
build my own bike because the a$$hole manufactures will not make them for me and if they
did the local LBS WON'T carry them :mad: :mad:

So get real here. There are other folk's out there who want a choice of bikes that are not all
about racing of any kind.........dirt or otherwise.

Only? I said only? I said "most", and that's based on the market, not just a few people's tastes. The up and coming style in my area are the chopper bikes, and the ones with a combination traditional geometry and recumbent geometry, like the Townies. If more people wanted the utility bikes, then they'd be readily available in many places. The stores are catering to their biggest market. Just because people aren't part of that market, they "get their panties in a wad" and throw verbal tantrums, including put downs of people that are different than them.
Anyone that believes there's such a big market for these bikes, can put their money up and prove it. Start a bike shop and sell only utility bikes. You can smile all the way to the bank knowing that others are light years behind you, or you can go broke when you find out that running a business means giving the customers what they are wanting to buy. The majority of the people in the U.S. cycle for fun, and the bikes they buy are made for that.

...rat-trap rack (just like I had when I was a kid!)...

As for steel, I really don't think bikes like these lose anything by being made of aluminum.

I don't understand why the spring-loaded racks are so uncommon now. The only one I've found is the Back Trails brand from Target.

In spite of the steel propoganda, as far as I can tell my aluminum commute bike feels as smooth as my steel/carbon fun bike (both have the same tires), cost less than half as much, and the paint dings won't rust. As long as it comes with all the mounting points you need, I think aluminum frames are great.

The Bianchi Bergamo is close to what you want:
http://www.bianchiusa.com/602.html

The Cannondale Fifty-Fifty also comes to mind,but I think they prolly run over $800:
http://cannondale.com/bikes/05/cusa/model-5MRFF.html

The Bianchi Bergamo is close to what you want:
http://www.bianchiusa.com/602.html

The Cannondale Fifty-Fifty also comes to mind,but I think they prolly run over $800:
http://cannondale.com/bikes/05/cusa/model-5MRFF.html

With a single chainring, these things are screaming for a chain enclosure.

The Bianci and Cannondale are not quite what I'm looking for. I want a dynohub and a chainguard. Adding a dynohub to a bike is expensive and retrofitting a chain guard is difficult, at best, maybe impossible. And, I do need more than one speed. A 7 or 8 sp internal gear hub would probably work fine, but a SS won't cut it on the hills around here.

I'm going to have to agree with Dchiefransom about the utility bike market. I have a good LBS nearby that claims to owe their success to giving the customer what they want instead of steering them to "what they need" as other LBS's do. I tend to believe them as they have done quite well in the 10 months they have been open. They also say that much of their business doesn't come from the local racer wannabees, but from people who just want to ride. However, these people are still not buying utility bikes. They are buying MTB's or comfort/cruizer bikes. This LBS is a Trek dealer and I would love for them to stock something like an L200 or L300, but given the number of commuters I see around here, I would likely be the only person interested.

The bikes discussed so far lack what I think it the most useful rack on a utility bike-- the FRONT rack. It is much more practical to load stuff on the front than the back.

My wife has one of these (http://www.antbikemike.com/bostonroadster.html). It has performed flawlessly.

well, i bought a cannondale 50/50 about two weeks ago.

it's a great setup, if you ask me. the new nexus 8 hub, EBB to tension the chain, slackish mtb geometry, big fat tires, not too heavy.

wasn't cheap though -- best price i could find around here was a flat grand.

i switched the saddle to a brooks and mounted BMX pedals with powergrips rode it constantly for about 10 days. but, i bought it for a purpose. when the xtracycle build kit arrived, i tore the 50/50 apart. in a day or two, it will be on the road again, as the xtra-50.

the EBB is especially cool, because i was able to use the nexus 8 with the vertical dropouts on the xtracycle without a tensioner. it also means i can upgrade to disc brakes down the line, should i care to do so.

I like my NEXT x factor.7 speed derailuer with front suspension and 26 inch wheels shod with 1.5 inch 80 psi Kenda Kwests.I use north road bars .Seriously check out Dahon folders, especially if you have public transit available.

The bikes discussed so far lack what I think it the most useful rack on a utility bike-- the FRONT rack. It is much more practical to load stuff on the front than the back.
I know my daughter would prefer to have a front basket for for carrying a purse where she can see it. Unfortunatly, the wicker baskets we brought back from Germany are not compatible with her bike.

I have bad memories of front baskets from when I was a paper boy over 45 years ago and spilling the whole deal all over the street because of an accident due to the difficult handling with a heavy load in a high front basket. Somehow I survived even without styrofoam protection

Have you thought about purchasing a metal basket for your daughter? The one that I use are small, light and has a handle on top. It is large enough for a purse, even a tote bag. It hangs from the front handlebars and can be quickly lifted off the handbars when not needed (great for a folding bike). Any good bike store should carry them and if not, can steer you toward one by ordering one for you.

Please let us know if you are sucessful in locating one.

Thanks for mentioning the Specialized Globe. I am hoping to buy a new bike within a week because my 1985 Peugeot dying. The gears change by themselves and minor parts have been falling off. I've been told that it will take hundreds of $$ to get it back in really good shape. My bike is my car. I'm not sure whether or not I want to get a bike with internal hub gearing or derailler.
I haven't done any test rides yet and am hoping to spend under $800. The Specialized Globe and the Breezer Villager are the two that I'm most interested in.

Is it more difficult to change a tire on a bike with internal hub gearing or a derailler with a chain guard?

Have you thought about purchasing a metal basket for your daughter? The one that I use are small, light and has a handle on top. It is large enough for a purse, even a tote bag. It hangs from the front handlebars and can be quickly lifted off the handbars when not needed (great for a folding bike). Any good bike store should carry them and if not, can steer you toward one by ordering one for you.

Please let us know if you are sucessful in locating one.We had a removable basket on one of the cruisers but the model we had scraped the paint off of the head tube. We went back to the old Wald. Baskets are the way to go if you grocery shop with a bike.

Have you thought about purchasing a metal basket for your daughter? The one that I use are small, light and has a handle on top. It is large enough for a purse, even a tote bag. It hangs from the front handlebars and can be quickly lifted off the handbars when not needed (great for a folding bike). Any good bike store should carry them and if not, can steer you toward one by ordering one for you.

Please let us know if you are sucessful in locating one.
You are right, a small metal basket would probably work. She wasn't that interested to pursue the issue. and apparantly is satisfied attaching her purse inside the rear basket so it can't fall out. If it works for her, it works for me too.

Lots of great stuff in this post. For older/reconditioned bike, check-out the Menotomy Co's site: www.oldroads.com. I got my 1973 Raleigh Sports for a very reasonable price including shipping; it's a great bike for just riding around the neighborhood. Also take a look at: www.threespeedbicyles.angelcities.com for more detailed info on what's new and available in the U.S. for euro styled bikes. The Worksman Co in New York makes roadster framed bikes that are also reasonably priced and they're made here in the US.