Advocacy & Safety - Need to install turn signals on touring bike

Such lights on bikes make as much or as little sense as on a moped or a motorcycle. Bikes, mopeds and motorcycles look pretty much the same to a driver, so any effect will be equal for all such vehicles.
If you think they're useful on the motorised two-wheelers, they're useful on a bike. Period.

They'd be easy to make by taking two cheap rear LED blinker lights, adding a bit of wiring and a button to turn on/off. Total cost for a pair should be less than $20 if you build it yourself.

Could it be made? Probably ...Not finding a suitable light (or wanting to take on the challenge of making one), I purchased two pairs of Glo Gloves (http://www.gloglov.com/) which have pieces of Reflexite retro-reflective vinyl sewn on.

FYI: there are two styles available for cycling; Sport (palm padding, reflective back) and Original (reflective front and back). Both can be worn alone or stretched over cycling gloves. I bought the "Rider ~ Packet" so that our tandem team has a Sport pair for the captain and an Original pair for the stoker (who does most of the signaling).

Bruce Rosar
Not associated with "Glo Glov" (other than being a satisfied customer :o

Reread the thread. Here's my eval:

<SNIP>

Well, what do you all think? Does this ring true?

Your evauation is right on target in every respect.

Bottom line is: It is possible but hardly worth the effort unless someone just wants to wire it up for their own personal satisfaction.

Bike Signal (http://www.global-merchants.com/home/bike.htm)

This looks like it will work.


GEEK

A bunch of folks suggested arm, wrist and/or hand reflectivity.

I've used reflective gloves for a while now. Branded as GloGloves (http://www.gloglov.com/index.html). Since using them, I've noticed drivers yielding to me more than before when I want to laterall move lanes for a turn (non scientific comparison, just my experience).

It is also much easier for me to signal oncoming drivers (that have the right of way), to continue while I wait for an appropriate break in traffic to turn. Prior to using these gloves, all to often I would have a "courteous" driver stop-to let me turn (then I'd wave both of my arms+such to get them moving). I find this maneuveur inherently dangerous for a turning cyclist-primarily because following drivers may not see the cyclist, and pass the stopped driver on the right. Thus crashing into the cyclist. Ouch.

In combination with hand signals (when possible) signals seem a decent idea, especially with a loaded bike. Arrows over just blinking lights would seem the better.

Bike Signal (http://www.global-merchants.com/home/bike.htm)

This looks like it will work.


Hmmm....2 AAA batteries? I'd worry that it's not bright enough. For something like a turn light that's only on for a few seconds at a time you could make some sort of custom 3-Watt luxeon job without needing too large of a battery. You could even run them as your main rear lights at half or 1/3 power when they aren't turn signalling and get reasonable lifetime on a few AA's. Ideas, ideas....

The 'Drivers aren't expecting it' line sounds like BS. I've read alot of stuff in this forum and alot of advice has something like 'drivers aren't expecting it, so they will pay attention to it instead of tuning it out' listed as a pro not a con.

Hmmm....2 AAA batteries? I'd worry that it's not bright enough. For something like a turn light that's only on for a few seconds at a time you could make some sort of custom 3-Watt luxeon job without needing too large of a battery. You could even run them as your main rear lights at half or 1/3 power when they aren't turn signalling and get reasonable lifetime on a few AA's. Ideas, ideas....

When I looked at this link, I was thinking that the blinking lights need to be further apart.

Bike Signal (http://www.global-merchants.com/home/bike.htm)

This looks like it will work.


GEEK


Has anyone used this light yet? Just found out about it. Thanks..

If you had bright enough orange LEDs and a big red one in the middle, I think it would work, at least at night.

A lot of drivers are totally unable to interpret standard hand signals, at least where I ride, so hey why not?



And I have had no trouble signaling on rough pavement at more than 30 mph.

There have also been times I have had to keep my hands on the bars for control at much lower speeds.

Why does everyone have to have such entrenched positions on such inane topics?

For the winter commute in the dark, I use an ankle strap with built-in LEDs from Walmart ($8). I put it on my left wrist and have it flashing for the whole ride. It provides visibility to the side when I have my hands on the bars, and clear indication of my intentions when I make a hand signal. Turn signals on the back of the carrier are too near to the centreline of the bike.

If you had bright enough orange LEDs and a big red one in the middle, I think it would work, at least at night.

A lot of drivers are totally unable to interpret standard hand signals, at least where I ride, so hey why not?



And I have had no trouble signaling on rough pavement at more than 30 mph.

There have also been times I have had to keep my hands on the bars for control at much lower speeds.

Why does everyone have to have such entrenched positions on such inane topics?


I'm in the same city as you and I know exactly what you mean. When making a left turn people don't care or know the arm signals here. I have two front mounted blinkies (PB Blaze) and at the left turn lane I have left turn signal on at the lights and people just freeze when the lights turn green like that don't know WTF to do to let me go first. I'm not going first for you don't know if some idiots going to cut a lane and rush you. I wave them forward to move like if I was driving my car the cars would be moving forward already and I just wait for my opening turn then turn. Before when I used my arm to signal left people kept driving fast and also many just slowed down half way in the intersection rolling slowly looking at you wondering why you're sticking your left arm out.

Now I'm not saying I'm going to be totally dependant on the turn lights when I make a lane change but it's an extra safety and IMHO quite understandable that the rider wants to turn left/right. The arm signal in conjunction with the turn signal is just a reinforcement of the light signal. I find when I have the front (no back yet) signal blinkies blinking left in a small street people already know from driving I want to go left.

BTW I don't just have two blinkies up front. I have o---{===**---o setup. The "o" are my blinkies. The [===] is my cheap Bell dual Xeon/LED light. When I approach an intersection I turn the middle light on make it clearI have light setup and that the side lights are for signalling. The helmet light also aids in when I turn I can hit any drivers slowly creeping around the corner around chin/nose level which many a driver have stopped from a rushing the corner.

I don't want to discourage you from adding signals, but no one every seems to pay attention when I use 'em on my motorcycle. In fact, I had one lady yell at me for not using 'em. Then I realized she couldn't see the signals due to angle of sun or glare or something cuz I had them on and they were working.

For some reason, hand signals on any bike (motor or not) is so much more noticed. I have people give me a funny look when I signal with my hands. Seems like enough people don't understand what they mean, but it does get their attention and makes 'em stop to think. Their hamster is much slower than my bike :D

If you go with lighted signals, continue using your hands.

My experience with turn signals on motorcycles is that they can be very dangerous. If you leave a turn signal on by mistake, there is a very good chance a car on a road perpendicular to the road you are on will pull out in front of you because they think you are about to turn.

On a bicycle, this phenomena would only be enhanced because the slow speed of a bike will be interpreted by drivers as slowing down to make a turn, which will only reinforce the drivers urge to pull out in front of a bike.

He could do that, but do you think anyone behind him is going to realize he has two blinkies and is just using one to signal he's about to turn? Just thinking like a driver for a minute, I'd see a blinky and just think that he's got one blinky. People aren't accustomed to turn signals on bikes; I'd stick to hand signals.

Late at night, I've found that drivers don't seem to see my hand signals well.

I have been reading this topic with interest, for I just put together a trailer for my bike to carry my camping gear. I put a four foot long bed onto a standard child's bike frame. I have two wooden boxes with camp gear in them that go at the front and rear of the trailer, with the space in between the tires where I put my cooler and any other stuff like chairs, tents, etc.

I had two trailer marker lights kicking around so I installed them on the rear 'bumper' of the trailer as an afterthought. Then once I had them wired and tested..(plan to power them with the 12 volt booster pack I have which has a cigarette lighter type receptacle as well as a 110 V outlet on it) I got to thinking about how to maybe wire up those lights as actual turn signals or even brake/turn signals.

Now, the more I think about it, I may install some uprights on each rear corner of the trailer and install the lights on them, so they are higher up in the line of sight of anyone following behind. If I did that then maybe just have those red marker lights on the bumper on all the time. Since the trailer is approx 25" wide, it would give a reasonable space between the lights as to indicate that it is actually a turning signal.

The sticky part here is how to

(1) cobble together the circuitry to accomplish the signal lights.

(2) circuitry that would allow the lights to go brighter when you apply your brakes (all lights brighten). I imagine this would require some sort of normally closed micro switch that the brake levers would hold open normally and when you squeeze the lever it closes the circuit and sends the full 12 volts to the lights. Have a way to limit the voltage to 6 volts under the no brake time.

I did find an interesting thread that may be helpful.

http://motorbicycling.com/f11/12v-turn-signals-lighting-10176.html

I need to install turn signals on a touring bike. Can anyone email me and tell me how? Or direct me to where I can locate the info ?



Thanks

It is pointless. I tried to do that. I bought some signals that were not as good as my regular bike lights.

The thing also rusted really fast.

The premises of what is accepted by many as good cycling practice is legality, predictability and conspicuity (I think Vehicular Cycling principles are based on these).

Motorists do not expect a bike to be using turn indicators. Hand signals yes. Indicators no. That addresses the predictability part.

Motorists do not expect a bike to be stopping for red lights, either. Are you telling me the only safe thing to do is always blow through lights, then?

I thought the #1 principal of "vehicular cycling" is "people confuse my bike for a car all the time." So it's funny to hear VC's say "you know that thing that's required by law on a car? Don't try to put one on your bike." This advice seems very unVC; you should be telling him to get a brake light, too.

Actually, I plan on installing turn signals on my bikes too. I don't know how it is where all of you ride, but here there's a problem with hand signals (aside from their being completely invisible at night). Drivers seem to interpret a hand signal to mean "please let me cut in front of you right now" as opposed to "I intend to make a turn at the upcoming intersection." That's the way people in cars use hand signals here. And as a result, I have drivers stopping and trying to let me pass in front of them in places where they shouldn't be stopping.

I'm sure no one will be confused by amber blinkers. They see them on motorcycles every day.

You could get this -- http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11859

... granted, it looks like a cheap toy, but maybe it'll work.

Personally, I'd just use my arms to signal, and if you are in a situation where you want both hands on the bars -- don't signal (not falling over trumps signaling every time!)

None of you are answering his question. I personally don't care what his reasons are. The man wants turn signals, give him turn signals.

AllenBell, check your private messages, I sent you a link.

We're looking out for his checkbook. We're trying to keep him from spending money on something that hardly works and, IMO, can give a false sense of security.

To augment what I posted above --

I don't think turn signals are very useful on bikes because, if you're putting yourself in a position where you need them for safety, you're running a pretty big risk of getting hit.

Turn signals on regular vehicles are most useful in two situations -- making turns and changing lanes. When you're making a turn on a bike, you're either turning right from the right side of the right-hand lane (in which case a turn signal might only help a pedestrian or a car approaching from the side street) or turning left from the left lane (which you won't do if it wasn't clear anyway, so there isn't anyone to see your signal).

If you're changing lanes, you're (hopefully) not doing so in a manner that would force other vehicles to hit their brakes. Sure, you would be "merely" causing an inconvenience, but they could easily be idiots and not paying attention, so they'd just run you over. So, you'd change lanes when it's clear and safe to do so, which -- again -- means that there's nobody nearby to see your turn signal.

I suspect that a small minority of cyclists (in the US) use hand signals (even though they are required by law).In my experience, most cyclists signal at least occasionally -- when it matters mostly, and when they don't need both hands on the bars. But when it's not really needed, and when they need both hands to ride -- they don't.


I suspect that none (or a tiny number) of these cyclists have ever gotten a ticket for it. I suspect that the likelihood for getting a ticket for using signal lights is vanishingly small (even in Manatoba).Motorists almost never get tickets for failure to signal either -- in general, I think the only time anybody ever gets a ticket for it is when the cop is looking for anything to ticket somebody for.

Um, guys? Five-year old thread.

Yeah, it's a five yo thread, but it goes well with the pictures of this Suburban. Maybe this is what the original poster had in mind:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu90/johnvanveen/P1011554.jpg

Um, guys? Five-year old thread.:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:Just can't make this stuff up.

Now, if you have a problem in removing a hand from the bars to indicate a turn, you may need to develop some more riding skills, which in turn develop confidence. Maybe both you and the original poster need to enrol in bike skills and handling courses. Then maybe you can post derogatory comments with some authority.

This is stupid as well as ill-mannered. You have no way of knowing what sort of roads the guy is riding one - turning one handed into a pot hole is for idiots.