Advocacy & Safety - Need to install turn signals on touring bike

I need to install turn signals on a touring bike. Can anyone email me and tell me how? Or direct me to where I can locate the info ?



Thanks

You can't just use hand signals?

I'm guessing you could hook up some amber blinkies to a switch on your handlebars - shouldn't be too hard to do.

He could do that, but do you think anyone behind him is going to realize he has two blinkies and is just using one to signal he's about to turn? Just thinking like a driver for a minute, I'd see a blinky and just think that he's got one blinky. People aren't accustomed to turn signals on bikes; I'd stick to hand signals.

He could do that, but do you think anyone behind him is going to realize he has two blinkies and is just using one to signal he's about to turn? Just thinking like a driver for a minute, I'd see a blinky and just think that he's got one blinky. People aren't accustomed to turn signals on bikes; I'd stick to hand signals.

Agreed.

Furthermore, by not looking back and depending on those lights, you're asking for trouble. The motorist does not expect a blinking light on a bicycle to be understood as a turn signal.

I've seen cheap metal turn signal units at Thrifty Drugs in the 1980's. Maybe Kmart/Walmart/Target has some in their "Bicycle section". Not to disrespect you, but I do agree that they'll serve no real purpose other than to maybe give you a false sense of security. Might look cool on a chopper style kiddie bike though.

I don't want to discourage you from adding signals, but no one every seems to pay attention when I use 'em on my motorcycle. In fact, I had one lady yell at me for not using 'em. Then I realized she couldn't see the signals due to angle of sun or glare or something cuz I had them on and they were working.

For some reason, hand signals on any bike (motor or not) is so much more noticed. I have people give me a funny look when I signal with my hands. Seems like enough people don't understand what they mean, but it does get their attention and makes 'em stop to think. Their hamster is much slower than my bike :D

If you go with lighted signals, continue using your hands.

You can't just use hand signals?


After a couple past experiences when I took one hand off the handlebar and crashed hard after hitting a rock or crack in the street (don't remember anymore) I don't do hand-signals anymore. Two hands on the bars at all times. YMMV

It should be pretty easy to work up something that's obviously a turn signal. You could probably modify some sort of motorcycle/moped turn signal, as well.

Down under we just stick our hand out and point to signal our intentions. Was easier to do on the tandem than on our singles, as my wife would generally signal. Try to imagine pedalling into a roundabout at speed, and sticking your right arm out as you lean into a hard right turn. Not as easy as it sounds, especially since we are all on the wrong (left) side over here.

None of you are answering his question. I personally don't care what his reasons are. The man wants turn signals, give him turn signals.

AllenBell, check your private messages, I sent you a link.

None of you are answering his question. I personally don't care what his reasons are. The man wants turn signals, give him turn signals.


It wouldn't be bikeforums.net without the usual chorus of "Why would you want to do THAT? Everybody knows the Only True Way of doing XXXX is...." :P

None of you are answering his question. I personally don't care what his reasons are. The man wants turn signals, give him turn signals.

AllenBell, check your private messages, I sent you a link.
I answered his question in my first post.

It wouldn't be bikeforums.net without the usual chorus of "Why would you want to do THAT? Everybody knows the Only True Way of doing XXXX is...." :P
The premises of what is accepted by many as good cycling practice is legality, predictability and conspicuity (I think Vehicular Cycling principles are based on these).

Motorists do not expect a bike to be using turn indicators. Hand signals yes. Indicators no. That addresses the predictability part.

A hand held out to indicate a left or right turn is far more noticeable than any indicator light on a bike might be. That addresses the conspicuity part.

Bikes are not required to be equipped with turn indicators. That addresses the legality part.

Now, if you have a problem in removing a hand from the bars to indicate a turn, you may need to develop some more riding skills, which in turn develop confidence. Maybe both you and the original poster need to enrol in bike skills and handling courses. Then maybe you can post derogatory comments with some authority.

Now, if you have a problem in removing a hand from the bars to indicate a turn, you may need to develop some more riding skills, which in turn develop confidence. Maybe both you and the original poster need to enrol in bike skills and handling courses. Then maybe you can post derogatory comments with some authority.

Thanks for the insult, jerk.

Thanks for the insult, jerk.
Just the response I expected. Usually from the uneducated.

I made my own turn signals and use them daily, but I still have concerns about how well drivers see and understand that they are turn signal lights. I use especially when stopped in traffic at lights when I am making a left turn and it is not a turn lane. If I am moving and I can hand signal safely, I will do that also.
LEDs used for turn signals (http://monarch.gsu.edu/jeff/bike/turn_led/index.htm)
Pictures of the lights working. (http://monarch.gsu.edu/jeff/bike/working_flashers/index.htm)

If you are interested in reading more about home-built 'geek' lights, including turn lights, you can check out the Total Geekness thread sticky (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=680021&highlight=turn+signals#post680021) at the top of the commuting forum.

It wouldn't be bikeforums.net without the usual chorus of "Why would you want to do THAT? Everybody knows the Only True Way of doing XXXX is...." :P
Just cuz you can do something, doesn't mean you should. If the OP has no experience with signals, then it's in his best interest to hear from people who have.

I think you should sew a lamp on each a$$ cheek of your shorts. Then, when you wanna turn, lift up off the seat, hit the switch for either lamp, then shake your arse in that direction....

I answered his question in my first post.

Haha, owned..!

I need to install turn signals on a touring bike. Can anyone email me and tell me how? Or direct me to where I can locate the info ?



Thanks

You probably want to mask your email unless you want to get spammed to the next planet.

None of you are answering his question. I personally don't care what his reasons are. The man wants turn signals, give him turn signals.

AllenBell, check your private messages, I sent you a link.

I would feel awful if he got into an accident because these lights are barely visible during the day and look like blinkies at night. If the motorist hits him, those directional lights would mean very little in traffic court.

I know this is not an answer to the original poster's question but as a driver I almost never pay much attention to motorcycle turn sinals. I certainly am not going to view a blinky on a bicycle as a turn indicator.

The premises of what is accepted by many as good cycling practice is legality, predictability and conspicuity (I think Vehicular Cycling principles are based on these).

Motorists do not expect a bike to be using turn indicators. Hand signals yes. Indicators no. That addresses the predictability part.

A hand held out to indicate a left or right turn is far more noticeable than any indicator light on a bike might be. That addresses the conspicuity part.

Bikes are not required to be equipped with turn indicators. That addresses the legality part.

Now, if you have a problem in removing a hand from the bars to indicate a turn, you may need to develop some more riding skills, which in turn develop confidence. Maybe both you and the original poster need to enrol in bike skills and handling courses. Then maybe you can post derogatory comments with some authority.

I agree with Rowan, and more on the legality part ... according to the Manitoba (Canada) Highway Act ...

"Giving of signals generally

125(1) Subject to subsection (2), where a signal is required, a driver, or the operator of a bicycle or power-assisted bicycle, shall give it by means of

(a) his or her hand and arm; or

(b) a "stop" signal lamp or turning signal lamp, as the case requires, of the kind required or authorized under this Act to be carried; or

(c) a mechanical device of a type that has been approved by the traffic board.

Giving of signals where hand signals not visible

125(2) Where a vehicle is constructed or loaded in a manner that makes a signal by hand and arm not visible to both its front and rear, a driver shall give signals as provided in clause (1)(b) or (c).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hand signals

126(1) The driver of a left-hand drive motor vehicle or the operator of a bicycle, power-assisted bicycle, moped or mobility vehicle giving a hand signal shall do so from the left side of the vehicle and

(a) to signify a left turn, shall extend his or her left arm horizontally from the vehicle;

(b) to signify a right turn, shall extend his or her left arm from the vehicle with the upper arm horizontal and forearm pointing vertically upward; and

(c) to signify a stop or a decrease in speed, shall extend his or her left arm from the vehicle with the upper arm horizontal and forearm pointing vertically downward.

Right turns — bicycles and power-assisted bicycles

126(2) Despite subsection (1), the operator of a bicycle or power-assisted bicycle may signify a right turn by extending his or her right arm horizontally from the right side of the vehicle."


Therefore, if allenbell were cycling in Manitoba, unless the signal lights which he is considering attaching have been approved by the traffic board, they would be illegal. Before using such equipment, it would be a good idea to check your local traffic laws and see what the legalities are.

And I also agree with Rowan that if someone has some difficulties with taking one hand off the bicycle in order to signal, that person should consider taking a bicycle handling course. Your local cycling association will likely offer some in the early spring. Not only is it a good idea to feel comfortable removing one hand for signalling purposes, but it's also useful for things like grabbing your bottle to take a drink, eating an energy bar, wiping bugs out of your eyes, making adjustments to your clothing, stretching, and so on.

I have seen arrow shaped amber LED clusters for bicycle turn signals, which may work better than regular blinkies. They were like this unit (http://circlecitybicycles.com/lrp/jpg/lx-lr15167.jpg) but larger.

And I also agree with Rowan that if someone has some difficulties with taking one hand off the bicycle in order to signal, that person should consider taking a bicycle handling course. Your local cycling association will likely offer some in the early spring. Not only is it a good idea to feel comfortable removing one hand for signalling purposes, but it's also useful for things like grabbing your bottle to take a drink, eating an energy bar, wiping bugs out of your eyes, making adjustments to your clothing, stretching, and so on.

Great, another insulting snotty comment. Please do the following experiment for me: ride down the road at 30 MPH one-handed, start guzzling out of your water bottle, hit an unexpected rock, pot-hole or road warp at the same time, then tell me how smug you look with road-rash on your face. I've been riding on two wheels for about 30 years - I don't need lessons like some little kiddie. Rocks, sand, gravel, glass, cracks, car parts, potholes and those annoyingly invisible road warps are just a fact of bicycling life. Hitting them one-handed WILL throw you off balance, and riding one-handed makes it very difficult to recover. Even more so if you're trying to brake or turn at the time, though I can't imagine trying to brake one-handed under any circumstances. Been there, done that.

Great, another insulting snotty comment. Please do the following experiment for me: ride down the road at 30 MPH one-handed, start guzzling out of your water bottle, hit an unexpected rock, pot-hole or road warp at the same time, then tell me how smug you look with road-rash on your face. I've been riding on two wheels for about 30 years - I don't need lessons like some little kiddie. Rocks, sand, gravel, glass, cracks, car parts, potholes and those annoyingly invisible road warps are just a fact of bicycling life. Hitting them one-handed WILL throw you off balance, and riding one-handed makes it very difficult to recover. Even more so if you're trying to brake or turn at the time, though I can't imagine trying to brake one-handed under any circumstances. Been there, done that.
Damn, you must be pretty good to take a turn at 30mph in a situation where you'd want to use a turn signal.

How fast do y'all ride in a situation where you feel the need to signal?

bkrownd, you need some valium. These people are making valid points, not taking pot shots at your manhood. Most people I know slow down to drink, or wait until they're at a light. They also don't turn corners at 30. I'm not going to defend Rowan, as he's a generally ok bloke and can take care of himself. If you can't take your hands off the bars to get a drink, signal, wave, or flip someone off, then you do need to practice your bike handling skills. On a different note, I'll give you $100 for the Scrambler. $150 if it's blue. :D

Great, another insulting snotty comment. Please do the following experiment for me: ride down the road at 30 MPH one-handed, start guzzling out of your water bottle, hit an unexpected rock, pot-hole or road warp at the same time, then tell me how smug you look with road-rash on your face. I've been riding on two wheels for about 30 years - I don't need lessons like some little kiddie. Rocks, sand, gravel, glass, cracks, car parts, potholes and those annoyingly invisible road warps are just a fact of bicycling life. Hitting them one-handed WILL throw you off balance, and riding one-handed makes it very difficult to recover. Even more so if you're trying to brake or turn at the time, though I can't imagine trying to brake one-handed under any circumstances. Been there, done that.


Ummm ... even if I could ride down the road at 30 mph, I think I'm smart enough to know better than to try to drink, signal, or take a corner at that speed. :lol:


PS. It's been YEARS since anyone has referred to me as a "kiddie". I'll take that as a compliment. :)

Damn, you must be pretty good to take a turn at 30mph in a situation where you'd want to use a turn signal.

How fast do y'all ride in a situation where you feel the need to signal?


When I intend to turn a corner, and am signalling that intent, most of the time I've gradually slowed to less than 10 km/h. Corners in my part of the world often have ice, snow, or mountains of gravel built up from when they gravel the roads to make them less slippery. Taking a corner much faster than that would put me in a very dangerous situation.

I'll give you $100 for the Scrambler. $150 if it's blue. :D

It was blue. Some jerk stole it off my doorstep in 1981. :(

Damn, you must be pretty good to take a turn at 30mph in a situation where you'd want to use a turn signal.



I don't turn at 30MPH - I'd be going about 30-35MPH before braking for a turn since almost all of my turns are at the bottom of a hill for some strange reason. Just modulating both brakes to safely slow down enough to turn is a 2-handed job in itself. My hands are supporting a fair bit of my weight at that point, too, or else I'd be sailing over the handlebar.

When I move to the Netherlands I will be able to hand signal all the time. Well, I can dream...

It was blue. Some jerk stole it off my doorstep in 1981. :(
Oh, sorry. I already own your bike. The back tire's a bit worn though. Can you leave one on your doorstep tonight?

Oh, sorry. I already own your bike. The back tire's a bit worn though.

That's because I used to LOOOOOVE to make skid marks with the back tire using the kick-back brakes. Oh, that and stuffing the pop can between the knobbies and the frame to make the loud RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR sound. Yeah, that was cool when we were 8.

8? I stopped that when I was 32. I just need a Scrambler and a Stingray. An original Redline sticker set, just the freakin' stickers went for $68 on ebay today. I don't know if I can afford to relive my childhood. Oh, we've taken over this thread and damaged it.

I lived on the Scrambler for 5 years, but oddly I don't have a single picture of it. After my Scrambler was stolen, my mother got me a junk Columbia 10-speed and I had no cycling love for the next decade. The stupid forks bent when I tried to jump curbs with it. To make things worse, my step-brother had a sweet Fuji BMX type bike I was ultra-jealous of.

I need to install turn signals on a touring bike. Can anyone email me and tell me how? Or direct me to where I can locate the info ?



Thanks

Your best bet is to geek up some lights yourself. Go look at my taillights/turnsignals (http://home.carolina.rr.com/rputman/gizelle-taillights.avi) to see what I did. I used LED lights in motorcycle marker light bodies as my actual turn signals; I used a truck marker light as my tail/brake light (replacing the bulb with LEDs).

Don't listen to the nay-sayers that "drivers aren't expecting turn signals on a bike" - the motorists around here notice mine IMMEDIATELY and I've noticed that the instant they do, I get more respect on the road.

Another option is to use the flash back handlebar lights, ala from performance and not have them on. When you want a signal, turn on the light you want on.

Therefore, if allenbell were cycling in Manitoba, unless the signal lights which he is considering attaching have been approved by the traffic board, they would be illegal. Before using such equipment, it would be a good idea to check your local traffic laws and see what the legalities are.

I doubt you would get arrested for having those turn signals on your bicycle. However, should an accident occur, you may be blamed by the traffic officer. At worse, you might not recieve any compensation from the insurance company.

Turn signal lights would be useful for me too. I commute home at night and hand signals aren't much use in signalling to cars in front of me in the dark. I've had cars wanting to pull out in front of me from a side street that I'm going to right-turn into wait unnecssarily probably because, although they see me because of my headlight, they can't judge my speed. It's a matter of good manners as well as safety. They wouldn't be as useful for cars behind me since their headlights light me up, but it couldn't hurt.

Great, another insulting snotty comment. Please do the following experiment for me: ride down the road at 30 MPH one-handed, start guzzling out of your water bottle, hit an unexpected rock, pot-hole or road warp at the same time, then tell me how smug you look with road-rash on your face. I've been riding on two wheels for about 30 years - I don't need lessons like some little kiddie. Rocks, sand, gravel, glass, cracks, car parts, potholes and those annoyingly invisible road warps are just a fact of bicycling life. Hitting them one-handed WILL throw you off balance, and riding one-handed makes it very difficult to recover. Even more so if you're trying to brake or turn at the time, though I can't imagine trying to brake one-handed under any circumstances. Been there, done that.

Whoa whoa.. calm down.
The other dude makes good points, you make good points.
Alls I know is, I've gone down a smooth roads on my mtb no handed at ~30mph and hit little bumps before, it throws you off but you can recover. In fact, it's easier for me to recover ~25 mph than it is at 15 mph if i hit something and i have 1 hand or 0 hands on the bar. I can't both slow down and have 1 hand in the air. But what I usually do is signal before I start slowing down and hope to god the car behind me doesn't ram into me.

It's a matter of good manners as well as safety

Actually, as stated earlier, it's also a matter of predictability. I don't know anyone who would be predicting the blinking light on a bike to be a turn signal. Seems like a major waste of resources, time, and effort if you ask me.

You'd do better to velcro a blinkie to each hand and wave it when you want to turn :D

I don't know anyone who would be predicting the blinking light on a bike to be a turn signal. Seems like a major waste of resources, time, and effort ... Yep. To make it self-explanatory to a motorist, you'd have to have some kind of big arrows or some such thing. It would be weird and heavy, regardless. What's wrong with simply pointing the direction you want to turn?

You'd do better to velcro a blinkie to each hand and wave it when you want to turn :D

Ya know, at one time I seriously thought about cobbling up a version of that. Then common sense overcame me. There's not enough traffic at 1AM to justify the expense and hassle of building and using them. When I had a headlight with a remote handlebar switch, I flashed the light and they got the message. My current light's built-in switch is too far away, so I guess they wait. :rolleyes:

Turn signal lights would be useful for me too. I commute home at night and hand signals aren't much use in signalling to cars in front of me in the dark. I've had cars wanting to pull out in front of me from a side street that I'm going to right-turn into wait unnecssarily probably because, although they see me because of my headlight, they can't judge my speed. It's a matter of good manners as well as safety. They wouldn't be as useful for cars behind me since their headlights light me up, but it couldn't hurt.

Thought of reflective gloves and perhaps some sort of wrist light for this... The nice thing about using your hands for the signals is that you can be more agressive in your signal.

Turn signals for the commuter are a cool idea though.

Thought of reflective gloves and perhaps some sort of wrist light for this...


I don't wear bike gloves, though I probably should. (Another $25 accessory to add to the list...) Many gloves have a wrist strap, which you could clip a multi-LED thing onto.

IF you gotta do it, though, think about maybe integrating it into a jacket/windbreaker? Something with some surface area to help call attention to the light array? Just throwin' out some ideas.

I don't wear bike gloves, though I probably should. (Another $25 accessory to add to the list...) Many gloves have a wrist strap, which you could clip a multi-LED thing onto.

Yeah, and the muli LED things are getting smaller and smaller.

RE the gloves: first time you skid badly going around or corner or hit water and slide, your hands will thank you as they reach the ground to try to save your face.
:o

Think of it as cheap insurance... not to mention the bike tan that identifies you to all other riders as a member of the "club." :D

Does your touring bike have a rear rack? Look at how a motorcycle has it's turn signals, on a bar across the back. If you use a 6 volt battery, you should be able to find a couple of yellow LED lights and mount them on each end of the bar that you attach across the back of your rear rack. You'd have to find small switches and wire them up yourself, though.

Think of it as cheap insurance... not to mention the bike tan that identifies you to all other riders as a member of the "club." :D

No clubs please, I'm not a groupie. :o

WRT gloves, I live in the boonies so I don't have many to try on, and they have to fit perfectly or they're useless.

I've thought about signal lights for awhile now but I ride mostly at night where I think it'd be more effective if the lights were positioned far enough apart, the blink was slower than the standard "blinky", and you kept your tail light a solid red.

I also ride where sticking my left arm out in traffic to change lanes could mean the loss of my left arm or...

I signal left to change lanes and the motorist behind me, too afraid to pass me otherwise, took it as a friendly wave to say, "hi it's ok to creep up and pass me now, i'm not about to veer in front of you." The horror!

Anyway, I think it'd work if you did your damndest to make it look similar to a motorcycle but I really don't know how well it's work in the daylight. Just don't give up shoulder checking. If the signal lights aren't working then at least it was worth a shot eh.

Reread the thread. Here's my eval:

1. motorists don't expect to see turn signals on bikes
2. geekie solutions posted so far would not solve motorist recognition problem
3. it would be nice to have a standard method of indicating direct of travel without
giving up bicycle movement controls
4. bikes take up a small horizontal footprint
5. motorists need something dramatic to break thru their fog of inattention
6. with LED's it should be possible to come up with a reasonable solution
7. a blinking light to the side is perceived just as a blinking light and NOT a directional
signal.

Requirements for a directional signal
1. light weight
2. easy bike mount
3. not ruele goldberg look, or mickey mouse, or hill billy. It looks nice
4. bright for sun glare conditions
5. good horizontal spread, i.e. at least 9 inches
6. progressive light movement: left to right, or right to left
7. progressive size movement, smaller to larger, or line to arrow: left to right, right to left
8. handle bar control
9. weather proof

Could it be made? Probably, think of the cateye rear 1000. It is very bright, has 10 led's and runs on 2 batteries. Instead of having 2 on the side and a block of 8 on the rear, you could have

. . . . : : .

Where the first colon is wider and second is centered on horiz line to create an arrow. Obviously you would need LED's going the other way as well for left turn indicator. The same light could be used for front and rear. Amber lens cover and width of 10 inches. It could be mounted centered in the front on the handlebars and on seat post or fender rack on the rear. Power could be 2 or 3 AA batteries. You'd need long cables with two on/off buttons for left turn and right turn.

Since the cateye LD 1000 goes for about $40, this would probably cost $50 for each, front and rear, and maybe $10 for a common control unit to activate both front and rear at same time from one handlebar control.

Engineering report: possible to create such a unit
Safety report: over time would shock motorists into seeing turn signals and bikes and would start looking for them.
Marketing report: $120 for bike turn signals set. We have difficulty getting high volume for $40 rear safety lights. Would not expect high volume, but their might be limited acceptability from riders. Best bet is to bundle with a head/light combo package and sell as top of the line add on.


Well, what do you all think? Does this ring true?