Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Suzue Pro Max sealed vs NJS

Howdy,

I just picked up a pair of 28-hole Campagnolo Ypsilon (http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=&sku=12526&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=) rims from Nashbar on deep discount and I want to build them up for my (as of now theoretical) nice-weather ride. I've heard great things about the Suzue ProMax hubs (which, conveniently, also seem to be the only track hubs readily available in 28 hole) so I think that I'm going to drop the $$$ on a pair of those. My question is this: what are the practical differences between the NJS and the SB versions? Aside from the NJS stamp, is there any reason why I should spend the extra $50 on the NJS version (the eBay seller Trackbikeking (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsofindtypeZ15QQuseridZtrackbikekingQQfclZ3QQampQ3BsspagenameZhQ3AhQ3AadvsearchQ3AUSQQsofocusZbs QQcatrefZC5QQfromZR7QQpfidZ0QQsinceZ30QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQfrppZ50) has the sealed bersion for $105 and the NJS for $150)?

Also, a quick question about those rims - after ordering them I noticed that it says in the description that they lack eyelets. Is this going to pose any practical difficulties when I build them up? I'm pretty unfamiliar with wheelbuilding (but looking to learn), so I'm fairly in the dark about whether this is going to matter or not.

Thanks,
Michael

The difference between them is that the SB version uses Sealed Bearings and the NJS version uses cup and cone bearings. Nice cup and cones are supposed to be smoother, but the sealed bearings should be more durable and need less maintenance.

I guess I should've stated the question more clearly: what's the practical difference between nice cup & cone bearings (ProMax NJS) and nice sealed bearings (ProMax SB)? Are the NJS easier to work on? Longer lasting? More replaceable parts? More to go wrong?

m.

Also, (and I may be wrong) the NJS is fixed/fixed whereas the SB is fixed/free.

The practical difference is the SB are a cartridge bearing setup. When the bearings start to get all crunchy and nasty, you pop out the old carts, pop in a new set for $6 and ride on.

The NJS are traditional cup and cone. When they start to get nasty, you disassemble the hub, degrease, examine the bearings for wear and any pitting in the cups or cones, replace any bearings that need replacing, and repack everything. Some people dig the craftsmanship that go into properly servicing and adjusting cup and cone stuff.

The NJS ones are super smooth but for a non-track rider it's probably going to be unnoticeable (and probably for a track rider too! NJS isn't always about "rational" ;) and the SB is just more convenient to work with.

And yeah, the NJS is double fixed. That's worth something.

From what I can garner - cup and cone is great for track use/velodome. Not practical for the street where a lot of dirt and grime and grit can gather up in the bearings and parts, thus requiring regular maintenance of the hub. Which is why it's best for track/velodrome/racing conditions.

For day to day, you want a sealed bearing hub, which would be the SB version. If you're riding streets, around the city, etc, you want the SB so you don't have to do regular maintenance or at least not as much.

Apparently the SB ones are fixed/fixed as well... maybe it's a typo in his listings?

m.

I actually have both hubs SB and NJS and frankly haven't noticed much difference riding on them in the last three years or so. Either on street or on the track.

The NJS is nicer cause of the fixed/fixed option, though frankly I rarely change gearing but if I race more I may take advantage of it). The SB handles wet weather a little better, as the only problem I've ever had with the NJS is that occassionally it needs a little TLC after a really grotty winter. Rebuild the NJS every year and its still going strong after 5 years.

The only problems I've had with the SB is they can develop play and are much harder to service as the SB are a bugger to get out (but then I'm a ham fisted home mechanic).

Both IMHO are excellent value for money.

Looking at the picture, the SBs don't seem to have threads for a lockring on the one side. Maybe some SBs come fixed/fixed?

Apparently the SB ones are fixed/fixed as well... maybe it's a typo in his listings?


Think so, if you look at the photo for the SB you can clearly see its threaded for a singlespeed on the left side. Theres no step down for lock ring threads.

I've only seen SB versions as fixed/free; seems stupid though that they don't make SB fixed/fixed hubs.

I don't know - my brother's promax SB are fix/free. The ones Sheldon has are fix/free. I don't know if you can get them any other way.

Mine is also fixed free.

I imagine the thinking is that the SB is for the amateur trackie or trackie doing road training. Thus you may want the freewheel bailout. If you're a serious trackie who needs a double fixed then you obviously want to get the NJS model... right?

I imagine the thinking is that the SB is for the amateur trackie or trackie doing road training. Thus you may want the freewheel bailout. If you're a serious trackie who needs a double fixed then you obviously want to get the NJS model... right?

I imagine that there wasn't much thinking at all. For a wise amateur trackie would realize that you can thread a freewheel onto the fixed side of a hub, so there is little use for having a 'free' side.

Yes, but manufacturers don't think that way. They build things for an intended use.

manufacturers don't think

True.

If you go to the Suzue Japanese website, they only have sealed-bearing fixed/free hubs listed. They have both fixed/fixed and fixed/free free-bearing hubs, with only the fixed/fixed having NJS certification.

I've owned both and made the mistake early on of buying the sealed-bearing ones. The hub shells are basically the same (at least on the outside) as on the free-bearing (NJS) ones, but the sealed bearings don't really adjust all that well (or stay adjusted all that well), and the seals aren't all that good -- they don't last a winter's worth of wet weather. I'd go for the free-bearing ones, repack them before use with a good water-resistant grease (Phil grease or even a marine bearing grease), and then plan on opening and cleaning them every 3-6 months. Not much care needed, but why have to fight with poor bearing sets? -- and the replacement bearings cost almost the difference between the two types of hubs anyway.

Hm. I have the SB hub, I've got thousands of miles on it including many wet miles, snowy, slushy, muddy, you name it. Right now my wheel looks like the swamp thing, but the bearings still spin quiet and smooth with no lateral play, to my great surprise.

On a related note: free bearings are easy to service yourself with grease and cone wrenches. Cartridge bearings require a bearing extractor and setter in addition to the cone wrenches.

Bah. No special tools required apart from an old spoke, a screwdriver, or even the axle itself. Just push the first bearing out from the opposite side and then flip and repeat. It's all press-fit.

Judging by the way the LBS was banging on the extractor to get the bearing in and out, it seemed to me a bit tigher than press-fit. Maybe it sounded tighter than it really was.

I would always just pop the SB's out with a mallet. A couple of good whacks usually gets those things right out.

Mine is also fixed free.

I imagine the thinking is that the SB is for the amateur trackie or trackie doing road training. Thus you may want the freewheel bailout. If you're a serious trackie who needs a double fixed then you obviously want to get the NJS model... right?

Me too , fixed free.

i used the promax sb for probably two years and never had any problems at all. they have since gone on a bike i built up for my dad (using the freewheel side for right now). granted, i had to adjust them occassionly (the rear primarily), but only about every three months or so. i did replace the front bearings, but that was after my house burned down and the bike was buried under about a hundred pounds of wet sheetrock and ash. all that crap managed to work its way into the bearing assembly, needless to say they were a bit rough after that. other than that, i can't complain one bit.