Electric Bikes - Follow up problem -BMS Battery parts with no instructions?
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04-06-13, 01:33 PM
Finally got around to assembling the parts today but now I have a problem. With everything connected (except the cruise, PAS, and speed limiter), the motor runs very slowly (if at all) and "pulses". Sometimes it runs backward and sometimes forward. The BMS meter on the handlebars lights up and cycles thru the 3 speeds but the motor barely turns the unloaded wheel. In my previous post, others spoke of connecting the thin red wire (from the controller?) directly to the battery. What thin red wire are we talking about? Ideas to explain my symptoms?
Hmm...did you plug the motor to the black cord via the supplied 8 pin connector? There is an arrow on the two black connectors that shows you how to align them. They should be lined up. It sounds like a loose connection in one of the phase wires (the controller is optionally sensorless and will default to sensorless if there are any issues with the Hall connectors) or a problem with phase order. I would try the various permutations of the phase wires connections (three leads) (from the black cord, to the controller banana plugs). Often a motor will run with no power or haltingly or "funnily" with an incorrect matching of the phase wires. Or there could be loose phase connection rather than wrong order. (Phases are blue, green and yellow). There's no risk in trying all of the phase permutations. One of them will make the wheel run backward, or run inside backward that is, without turning the wheel itself, as it is a geared motor. A direct drive motor would actually turn the wheel backward since those are non-freewheeling. Several of the permutations will run roughly. The right one will turn the wheel forward properly. Doesn't sound like an issue with the thin red wire - the to- battery connection from the controller should have two red wires going into the connector already, as supplied. which then connects to the battery connector. I use a different connector so have to solder the thin red to the thick red. It's not a problem with thin red, if your controller is powering the throttle LEDS. Pretty sure it is an issue with your motor connections, probably the phases. Its worth having the Halls working as well - the motor is just a bit smoother, if they are used (also in the right order - same colour to same colour). I had to insert the Hall pins into the Hall connector, so the pins matched up with the pins in the other 5 wire connector (red,black, green,yellow,blue). The spades just push into the white connector, and can be removed as well with a small screwdriver pushing the "lip" flat so the pin can exit the connector. The pins snap into the connector, with the spades oriented so they go in easily, the "lip" will sort of snap in. I wouldn't bother with the Halls at first, but get the phases correct, both in the right order and no loose connections. The black connectors on the cord, to the motor, stay as is, with the arrows on them aligned. Hope this helps.
Perhaps you could show me a photo of the connectors near the controller, as connected. I usually get the motor running, without putting the controller on the bike and taping or covering it all up, so all the leads can be "tinkered with" (and seen). Once it is running properly, then I move the controller to the bike to zip tie it on and cover it up in a small silnylon drybag or whatever.
04-07-13, 11:58 PM
Thanks for the tip. I tried all the permutations of the bullet connectors coming from the motor and now it runs. Occasionally the motor makes a growling sound and appears to be cycling on and off. Will changing the orientation of the smaller wires connecting from the motor wire to the six wire connector from the controller solve these problems?
Probably. It should run fine without the five small wires at all (the Halls). By that I mean "unplug the entire five wire connector (and run it sensorless)". If you do use the Halls, there are a lot of permutations of the Halls - some of which will run roughly or not at all. Should be red/red and black/black, and <some> permutation of the non-red-or-black colours. It sounds like you have a Hall problem now after the phase problem was fixed. The pins on two big white six-wire connectors should physically line up. However, generally, I totally disconnect the phase connector. You then have to move the bike slightly forward before the motor kicks in, although it will very nearly start from zero mph. The permutation of the Halls "goes with" the permutation of the phases, but the colours might not match between the Halls and phases - sometime they get the wires mixed up.
04-09-13, 11:12 PM
I tried totally disconnecting the 5 wire connector from the motor and I still get a little hesitation occasionally. I also tried switching the wire colors around in the 5 wire connector with no change in performance. It's almost like a miss in an internal combustion engine. I've never ridden an e bike before so maybe this is normal but I expected an electric motor to be totally smooth in operation. I don't think it's affecting my overall speed but it's annoying to feel a little shudder every 15-30 seconds (almost like a momentary power off). Is this normal for a Q100? Is there something else I should be looking for?
It isn't normal for the Q100. I've got two of them, and I installed another on a friends bike, and I haven't experienced any symptoms like that after the wires were hooked up right.I'm still not sure if you have the phases right... usually green/green yellow/yellow and blue/blue. Some combinations of the phases will run backwards or forwards/poorly.
I wish I was there to have a closer look. Is it a rear motor, that could have some rubbing on the freewheel where it is screwed onto the motor? That would give you some resistance. Could the amp draw on the controller be too much for your battery BMS? Unlikely, unless it is a very small battery - the BMS would shut it down if you hit the amp limit. I suppose it could be a defective controller - it would be worth trying to run the motor on a different controller, although those particular controllers are the most "universal" when it comes to those motors - a different controller could very well have "sync" problems. I also have an EZEE motor, and one controller I tried had symptoms much like what you describe - hesitating at lowish speed under 10mph. It must be very frustrating. It is a KU65 controller? Another possibility is a momentary short in the phase wires - one to another if there is any abrasion where they enter the hub. Also check the pins in the throttle connector to make sure they are connecting well. I often solder the throttle wires together rather than use the connector. Where are you located? I've got an ebike test gadget I bought which can test most of the connections for issues, including the phases, controller phases,halls, controller halls, and throttle wires. If it runs normally, and then shudders off, it sounds more like a loose connection somewhere. I've tried both the KU63 and KU65. The motors normally "growl" if you throw more than about 18 amps at them, with a larger controller like a KU93, or a KU63 with its shunt soldered, but they don't hesitate or stutter in that case. I'm afraid I'm almost out of ideas.
Are you running the 36V controller - and what is the voltage and size of your battery?
Noticed this on endless-sphere... Re: cute q100, 24v versus 36v and hall sensors support? (http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39135#p604956) http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/styles/prosilver/imageset/icon_post_target.gif (http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=604956#p604956)by d8veh (http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=18186) » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:14 am
I've been running mine at 17 amps 12S, since I built it. The only problem I had was a bit of stuttering on full throttle after I had the controller off because the crimping of the bullet connectors was a bit loose. After squeezing them tight, no more problems.
It's a bit fiddly to get the shunts unsoldered. Bend the LCD up as far as you dare.
04-10-13, 11:33 AM
It's a 36v KU65 controller running off a 36v 10.4ah bottle battery (328rpm front hub motor). I've tried many different permutations of the small wire connections at the 5 wire connector. I temporarily disconnected the brakes with no effect. I think it's probably running normally it just has this occasional annoying hesitation. I was thinking maybe throttle but the connector seems tight. Is there a way to take the throttle out of the equation and just short the wires at the controller connection creating a permanent full throttle situation for test purposes. I have a red, black, and green wire at the throttle connector. BTW, I'm located in NW Fl about 60mi east of Pensacola.
But have you tested all of the permutations of the three main phase wires with the bullet connectors? Without using any of the five wire connector at all? Does it just hesitate under load or also when running with no load at all? I don't think it is your throttle if you looked at the connection. With enough load, your voltage on that small battery could diminish to the point where the bms in the battery would shut down, to protect the battery. That probably shouldn't happen though, if the battery is fully charged, and balanced. A balance problem in the battery could shut the battery down, if one cell went too low, under load. It does seem from what you say that it sounds like the phases are hooked up right. Not sure what else to suggest other than finding someone on endless-sphere who could help you, from your area, or someone with an ebike tester gadget.
But have you tested all of the permutations of the three main phase wires with the bullet connectors? Without using any of the five wire connector at all? Does it just hesitate under load or also when running with no load at all? I don't think it is your throttle if you looked at the connection. With enough load, your voltage on that small battery could diminish to the point where the bms in the battery would shut down, to protect the battery. That probably shouldn't happen though, if the battery is fully charged, and balanced. A balance problem in the battery could shut the battery down, if one cell went too low, under load. It does seem from what you say that it sounds like the phases are hooked up right. Not sure what else to suggest other than finding someone on endless-sphere who could help you, from your area, or someone with an ebike tester gadget. Also worth trying a different battery if you can find someone with one to eliminate that possibility. I'm in Canada, it wouldn't be worth it to mail me the controller to test it on one of my bikes and have me send it back - replacements are cheap from China.
04-10-13, 05:05 PM
I tried all the combinations for the bullet connectors; that's what finally got it running in the beginning. I also tried it with the 5 wire connector disconnected entirely. The hesitation occurs randomly but the bike doesn't have to be under load. I can feel it when I lift the front wheel and just run it in place. Thanks for all your help, maybe the gurus on endless-sphere can help.
05-31-13, 01:37 PM
Apparently the problem was the KU65 controller which some have said does not work well withe the 328rpm Q100. I switched to an inexpensive Greentime controller and the bike runs great. It's quiet and accelerates smoothly to about 22mph. BMS Battery won't answer my emails so I guess I'm stuck with the unusable KU65.
Odd. Thanks for the followup.
I have a 328rpm Q100 and a KU63 and KU65. It runs the same on both controllers, although I got mine from Greenbikekit, so the controllers are CON61 and con62 (which should be the same as the KU's).
how are you getting 22mph, you using it with 26" wheels???
Same with me. I run both KU63 and KU65 with no problems on Ananda Cute Q100.
06-06-13, 10:16 AM
Using it with 700c wheels. I get a consistent 22mph on level ground with a combined bike/rider weight of about 190lbs.
Where is the post of your bike? Sounds like you built something similar to what I built. Makes for a nice rapid pedal assist bike!FYI, greenbikekit and elifebike both look like they will ship you a KU63/65 controller for a reasonable price. BMS seems to have a minimum shipping charge of $50, which is ridiculous for small orders like that.
06-12-13, 10:47 AM
Try here. http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/364676-Post-your-e-bike-pictures-here?p=15642767&viewfull=1#post15642767
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