Bicycle Mechanics - Spoke woes

Ugh...ive been trying to build this damn wheel forever, i learned eventually a problem is that most of the spkes are too long, so one they are at just 90 pounds of tension im already at the end of the thread, some were up to 7mm too long!! So i told them and they sent 15 replacements plus a pair of cycling socks. Im all happy, lace them up and theres still 6 too long :mad: now i have to order more :mad: . Theres really no point to this thread, i just feel like complaining

aaah just my luck. THe place i order spokes from is on brake, and wont ship anything till March 7. Does anybody know where i can buy double butted spokes individually? 15/17 gauge....thats a long shot isnt it?

Do you have a high end LBS ? They may have what you need in stock.

They sell 15 gauge only in straight.

most of the spkes are too long, ... sent 15 replacements and theres still 6 too long

There's goofy stuff going on here that I don't understand. How could anybody send you 15 spokes (a wierd number anyway) and six of them be too long?

well actually heres the thing. Some time ago i ordered spokes from this place, they cut them to size using the phil wood machine and all, ive ordered frm them before with on problems. I ordered 32 RItchey Logic spokes 265 or 266 i forget but it was one of those. Then i noticed that many were too long up to 7mm. i know i should have measured them but i did not think of it. I was not paying attention, so i ordered some others and got a discount on them. I thought 15 would cover it but apparently not, i still have 6 spokes that are too long.

wait, so you ordered 266mm spokes, and got some that were 273?!

that is correct. almost 1/4 an inch to long

luckily though my bike shop sold me a few of those straight gauge spokes, i want to hvae all double butted, but this will hold me by until i can replace them

How much weight savings could you expect with a 32h wheel with double butted, as opposed to straight spokes?? My Ringle Abbah hub and straight spokes arrive tomorrow. Should I have ordered the double butted ones?

it isnt really a matter of weight savings, its that double butted have a sort of "spring" and make a stronger wheel. Do a bit of research on sheldon brown, its explained well online. Double butted in my opinion is the only route to take for a high quality wheel. Plus it does save weight, but its really more than that.

After reading that, I find it quite interesting. I guess Ill just stick with the straight spokes. BTW, when using stainless spokes and brass nipples, is there some kind of antisieze I should be using?

the nipple and spoke will not sieze, the only thing i can think of that would sieze which really does not involve the spoke is aluminum nipples to al eyelets. But you should be using some sort of lubrication on your spoke threads, spoke prep is popular but expensive. I know Gerd Schraner puts common bicycle oils as he says it on his, lineseed oil is an old and popular lubrication because it does slightly harden a bit, which helps prevent the nipple from backing out.

After reading that, I find it quite interesting. I guess Ill just stick with the straight spokes. BTW, when using stainless spokes and brass nipples, is there some kind of antisieze I should be using?

Spokeprep.

:lol: yea i thought that would come. I think this is going to be one of those threads that is a giant argument over spoke thread lubrication. So i might as well start us off, spoke prep i think is nice. BUt for the one time builder common bicycle products or lineseed oil is fine,

Is motor oil suitable? Spoke prep sounds expensive and I dont really have any money left.

spoke preps 18.95 i think per bottle on nashbar. So yea its expensive for one wheelset. I believe jobst brandt uses motor oil, it will work. Its just to provide the threads with lubrication so that truing and building is easier, They wont sieze.

Is motor oil suitable? Spoke prep sounds expensive and I dont really have any money left.

Sure, you can use any oil. The reason you would use Spokeprep or linseed oil is that it lubricates initially and then sets up and acts as a threadlocker. Regular oil is not going to set up and your wheels will not stay true as long.

One more thing you miugth consider, my LBS recommended this and i thank them again and again. Lubricate the eyelets of the wheel with ice wax. I never bothered @ first when they told me, then I try it. You have a nice waxy finish on the eyelets, and spoke windup was greatly reduced, and of course it was easier to turn. I appy it directly to the "lip" on the nipple.

Sure, you can use any oil. The reason you would use Spokeprep or linseed oil is that it lubricates initially and then sets up and acts as a threadlocker. Regular oil is not going to set up and your wheels will not stay true as long.
True that is, however if your spokes are tensioned enough amd balanced you should not have problems. My first wheelset had tri flow as a lubricant, but i worked on that thing for some time and ran high spoke tension, i sold it on ebay some time ago. The guy said the nipples never came loose, its like if you take a bolt and two nuts, they hold together tight by the force against them

Sorry, I dont know what Ice Wax is. Where can it be found?

With linseed oil or spoke prep acting as a loctite, I probably wont want to do that because I will build the wheel at my house and use the truing stand at the shop the next day.

Ice wax is a wax type lubricant used for chains. search the forum for it in the archives, thers a bunch of information probably. Or as your shop they probably carry it. I think its 5 or 6 a bottle here, its good for dry dusty conditions on a chain, personally i dont think its a good lubricant but i deal with rain a lot so i need rust protection. Anyways spoke prep is only a very mild loctite, it allows subsequent truing no problem.

Same with lineseed oil, i just finished truing my second wheelset made with it, its a few months old too

I have blue rock and roll chain lube right next to me. Is that Ice Wax?

no, ice wax is the name of the lube. Its from pedros, type in Pedros ice wax on google and there will be lots of info and pictures. Basically heres how it works, you apply it sort of like an oil, but you let it sit for a few hours. Maybe even overnight. It works its way into the places of the chain and turns from a liquid to a sort of wax. The advantage, it runs clean, does not collect dirt and becuase of that wont leave marks on your leg or pants. The disadvantage, a pain in the ass becuase you have to wait, no rust protection, doesnt last long. But for wheel building purposes its cheap enough and works super well.

My rock n roll lube is made of a cleaner/lube, and some heavy wax. You shake it up and apply liberally to the chain and the thin stuff brings the wax into the chain and then it drys out or something, leaving it waxy. Isnt that what you mean?

yea, maybe rock n roll is wax i dont know. I only use tri flow so im blind with that. But yea, apply that directly to the lip of the nipples.

It has heavy wax that settles to the bottom of the bottle. Sweet. Cant wait till my stuff comes.

what did you order?

Kenda Kharisma StickE tires, Ringle Abbah 20mm hub, wheelsmith spokes, wheelsmith nipples, cables, housing, sram powerlink, chain breaker, tubes, pedros hex wrench set, cable ends.

True that is, however if your spokes are tensioned enough amd balanced you should not have problems. My first wheelset had tri flow as a lubricant, but i worked on that thing for some time and ran high spoke tension, i sold it on ebay some time ago. The guy said the nipples never came loose, its like if you take a bolt and two nuts, they hold together tight by the force against them

"Okjay well im trying to build my first wheelset. I didnt want to spend too much money on the highest quality parts becuase its my first so im doing 32 hole 3 cross. I am using DT swiss Hayes front hub with vuelta rear. DT Swiss ........." posted Nov 13, 2004 by phantomcow2

I'm just curious how you reconcile the November post with this one????? You "sold it on ebay some time ago"??? Gee, all the way back to the middle of November? "The guy said the nipples never came loose ....". They really haven't had a lot of time to get loose, now have they.

Come on man, give us all a break. Anybody who follows this forum has seen hundreds of posts from you and all of your problems that you have had building, what(?), two wheelsets. And, despite that, you seem to feel free to dispense advice on wheelbuilding. Hey, I'm sorry to call you out, but you really need a reality check. There are plenty of people on this forum that are able and willing to help you, but it's hard not to see your posts as abusing the people that are helping you out. Everybody wants their opinion or advice to be respected, but you have to back it up with credibility. I guess in this forum it would be bike cred. A lot of your posts purport to be backed up with extensive experience and (as evidenced by your own posts), again, I'm sorry to say, it just does not wash. I can remember one of your posts where you said "I did my homework", with respect to building one of your wheels. And, you subsequently made many posts about all of the problems you had that were clearly a result of not paying attention to basics - like measuring spokes before you begin a build. You get an "A" for honesty - absolutely. But, you'll get a lot more respect if you stop shooting yourself in the foot.

yea i know, and ive built several sets since then. I sold it one month after. Took me forever to get it to work right but i managed it. And now i can say the most recent set ive made is of high quality. So dont give me that crap, sorry i didnt start this 3 years ago

and i dont see how i abuse anybody here, i have great respect for some folks on this forum who helped me a lot. Sorry i was not paying attention one day and forget to think about double checking spoke length, holy crap who would have thought somebody can screw up and never make the same mistake? SCrew off