Foo - I think this is called a RANT..

I know there have been pet peeve threads that went on forever and ever. This is not a pet peeve thread. It is more a rant and a question for forum members.

I have a friend who has a boyfriend who lies to her constantly. Sometimes it is about big things, but more often it is just little things. What are those little lies called?

My question for the fellows is this: is it ever right to lie to the woman you are supposed to love, be it girlfriend or spouse? What happens to you if you get caught in a lie by your ladyfriend or wife, even just a little, inconsequential lie? Whatever happened to being truthful?

Trust is earned, once lost, it's almost never regained fully. Hard, if not impossible, to love without trust. Basic ingredient.

I have never been a believer that truth is always best. Sometimes a lie is needed to protect the person and or just make something a surprise.

Sounds like the guy in question, though, is a lier and isn't doing it for the girl in any way.

She isn't dating my roomate by any chance, is she? If someone can't be honest with me, I don't want anything to do with them. I HATE lies, more than anything on this earth, and I don't trust many people because of lies that I have been told, some big, some small. The only time lying is acceptable is in the case of surprises, I.E, "No, I'm not coming home until tomorrow", when you are really right by their house. That is a little white lie that causes no harm. It sounds like this relationship is on the express lane to nowhere, and should be ended before it gets worse. Make sure you tell her that not all guys are assh*les!

Those little lies are a white lie if they're not intended to do much harm. Well.. the key word is intended, sometimes well, you know what they say about good intentions.

I always try to tell the truth basically because it's easier. If someone asks me something, I'll let them know, it's just plain easier, especially if it's to someone you love, you never want to hide anything from them. Trust takes a lifetime to build and is very painful when it's broken. Trust in someone is something that makes you comfortable when you're with someone, that you can fall back on, that let's you know you always have someone to come home to, that keeps you in check with reality so you can keep the safety on on the 9mm under the pillow. And yeah, it sucks when you find out you can no longer trust anyone. And the longer you drag out the lie, the worse it is. So unless you want to get capped in the dome by your lover while you're asleep, the best thing to do is to tell the truth.

I see this a lot, a lot of girls, especially young girls, are so disillusioned that they'll stay with a guy no matter what. It's painful to see and even harder to understand.

i think what makes a lie is what you're lying about. it's not so much that you are lying -- it's WHY you're lying.

I agree with the other posters in this thread. Depends whatpeople are lying about. If they are lying to surprise someone now then it's ok, as long as it's a good surprise of course.

On the other hand if every other thing that comes out of you're mouth is complete BS, thats bad. Like Shifty said, the main ingredient of love is trust.

Habitual lying is a form of control based on a fragile ego. It's a clear sign of weakness and the only way to cover it up is through deception. The question to ask is not whether lying is right or wrong, but why does your girlfriend choose to be in a relationship based on lies?

Why not dump the guy? Also, if your friend is one of those people who habitually dates scum, then instead of asking"Why are all men scum?", a more constructive question would be "What criteria of mine keeps landing me these losers". If you land a bad apple every now and again, dump them, move on, that's life. If bad apples are ALL you ever choose, then YOU are the one doing something wrong. I wish your friend,(or you, if that's who it really is,) the best of luck.

"Honesty is the best policy." I can't tell you how many times I've heard that in my lifetime. After about the 10,000th time it started making sense. Now my kids hear it from me. We all tell lies, but it sounds like this guy is a loser and she should tell him to get lost -- or have her turn the table on him and start telling him lie after lie. Once he catches on she can ask him how it felt to be on the receiving end.

The only time lying is acceptable is in the case of surprises, I.E, "No, I'm not coming home until tomorrow", when you are really right by their house.


... and there's a strange (not yours) car in the driveway, a candle golw from the bedroom window, you quietly enter the house and climb the stairs and find him in the sack with some bimbo from the office. Yup, no one gets hurt there!




Make sure you tell her that not all guys are assh*les!


Exactly, some are ****** bags.

Let's not turn this into a "gun thread"!

Let's not turn this into a "gun thread"!

Poll: Who here lies while on their bike?

:p

Sometimes you just can't tell her that she really does look fat in that dress....

Shifty, I am with you. Trust is the basic ingredient that all lovers should hold. Once lost, you would THINK that the love would then be lost.

Supposedly, most of the time his "white lies" are told to "keep from hurting her" or "to avoid a confrontation". What he doesn't understand is that the hurt and the confrontations occur because of the LIES, not because of the things he is lying about.

Trekkie820, my friend is like you, she hates lies. Why she has stayed with the guy for years now is beyond me, because she has caught him in so many lies, some he doesn't even know that she knows about.




Sometimes you just can't tell her that she really does look fat in that dress....

What is the old saying? If you don't want to hear the answer, then don't ask the question?

personally, i think it's too easy to be too rigid with the truth. while i agree that conscious deception, particulatly malicious deception, can be dangerous and damaging, most lies aren't like that. mosgt of the time, we elaborate the "truth," bend it slightly for the sake of convenience. even more often, what two people believe to be true can be two slightly or completely different truths.

so what are the lies your friend's boyfriend is telling? has he embelleshed his biography and smoothed out the rough bits to make it a better story? has he "lied by omission," keeping information from her that he doesn't think she needs? has he fibbed a bit to get out of the duty of sunday night dinner with her parents?

it's all in the context. if you expect absolute, uncompromising and complete truth from someone, you will always be disappointed. there is no such thing as absolute, uncompromising and complete truth.

personally, i think it's too easy to be too rigid with the truth. while i agree that conscious deception, particulatly malicious deception, can be dangerous and damaging, most lies aren't like that. mosgt of the time, we elaborate the "truth," bend it slightly for the sake of convenience. even more often, what two people believe to be true can be two slightly or completely different truths.

so what are the lies your friend's boyfriend is telling? has he embelleshed his biography and smoothed out the rough bits to make it a better story? has he "lied by omission," keeping information from her that he doesn't think she needs? has he fibbed a bit to get out of the duty of sunday night dinner with her parents?

it's all in the context. if you expect absolute, uncompromising and complete truth from someone, you will always be disappointed. there is no such thing as absolute, uncompromising and complete truth.

Lies by omission is a biggie. He simply doesn't tell her all of something when she asks. But who is to say what information she needs?

If she asks who he went somewhere with, making conversation, and he tells her one person but it was really some foxy blond woman, THAT is an out and out lie. And he does this all the time.

He is doing something right now that will be the downfall of their relationship anyway, so maybe the relationship won't last much longer. I am staying out it. He is digging his own hole. :rolleyes:

jamie... well, it sounds like the problem with this guy isn't the lies so much, but the tomcatting around. no telling his girlfriend that he bought himself a new ipod is one thing; covering up his extracurricular activities is another thing...

but even then: what is the nature of their relationship? and was he innocently with this foxy blond woman because she just happened to be hanging with a mutual friend? did he keep that to himself because i knew his girlfriend would jump to the wrong conclusions? maybe he has a good, platonic friendship with the fox and knows that his girlfriend just doesn't understand. i do know of women how have insisted that their men cut off all ties with their platonic female friends.

i'm not defending this guy. the point i'm trying to make is that there's a hell of a lot more grey than black or white. if he's lying to cover up his fooling around, then he's a prick. i've done that in my life. it was stupid and malicious, and i will regret it for the rest of my life.

on the other hand, if he's bending the truth and not disclosing everything not to be malicious, but because he doesn't have another option, that's something else.

jamie... well, it sounds like the problem with this guy isn't the lies so much, but the tomcatting around. no telling his girlfriend that he bought himself a new ipod is one thing; covering up his extracurricular activities is another thing...

but even then: what is the nature of their relationship? and was he innocently with this foxy blond woman because she just happened to be hanging with a mutual friend? did he keep that to himself because i knew his girlfriend would jump to the wrong conclusions? maybe he has a good, platonic friendship with the fox and knows that his girlfriend just doesn't understand. i do know of women how have insisted that their men cut off all ties with their platonic female friends.

i'm not defending this guy. the point i'm trying to make is that there's a hell of a lot more grey than black or white. if he's lying to cover up his fooling around, then he's a prick. i've done that in my life. it was stupid and malicious, and i will regret it for the rest of my life.

on the other hand, if he's bending the truth and not disclosing everything not to be malicious, but because he doesn't have another option, that's something else.

To tell you the truth, I have no idea what the relationship with the other woman is, perhaps just an "office friendship", since they work together. But I know this guy. And the way the office friendship is escalating, it will turn to something else before long. But that will be a GOOD thing, my friend will be rid of the bum and can find herself someone who is true to her and doesn't feel like he has to lie. As I said, I am now staying out of it. I just hate to see her hurt. She is a good person. (Truth be told, he is too, just has that problem with telling the truth.)

Now I am shutting up, looking for a new avatar, and going to work. Boss has a huge case coming up and I stay busy, busy.

Boss has a huge case coming up and I stay busy, busy.
legal assistant? you have my respect and condolences. tough job.

Lying bad, truth good.

Jaime, my mother's a legal assistant, and my sister's a lawyer. I myself used to be a runner right out of high school. You have my condolences as well! Since we're talking about dating, don't get involved with lawyers! You'll end up dying young! :D

Lying bad, truth good.
not always.

What is the old saying? If you don't want to hear the answer, then don't ask the question?
yes, but there are multiple answer to any question, yeah? This is one of the things that's hard for guys is understanding which answer she's looking for, especially when she's not sure herself.

Typically, when a woman asks if something makes her look too fat -- or in the case of my ex-wife, too skinny -- what she's typically asking is, "do I still look good to you". If she really is asking whether she looks too fat, then she deserves to be lied to cuz you do not put your spouse in that position.

Come on guys....someone has to admit to lying at least once a day.

I love my girlfriend and all, but it happens. I don't lie about seeing other women or anything huge like that, but I lie about little stuff all the time. The whole "lies by omission" thing is the best thing in the world. I just bought a new frame off of eBay for about $150 shipped, and to me this is a great deal, but to her I'm just a moron wasting my money (which is not true, because my current frame is a little too big and I'm going to sell it anyway). So is it really all that bad if she doesn't know about it? It saves her the trouble of whining about it and it saves me the trouble of having to listen to that crap. And in the end when I sell my current frame for more than $150 I won't seem like such a bad guy anymore.

Sometimes you get questions like "Wasn't that fun" or "Do you want to ____," and it's often better to say yes to make her feel good. I'm OK with her doing the same thing to me. I'd rather hear a lie about how the Pacer game really was exciting than hear her go on about how boring basketball is.

Think about it....do you really want to know everything? Some things you're better off not knowing.

Don't get me wrong.....We shouldn't lie about important things.

yes, but there are multiple answer to any question, yeah? This is one of the things that's hard for guys is understanding which answer she's looking for, especially when she's not sure herself.

Typically, when a woman asks if something makes her look too fat -- or in the case of my ex-wife, too skinny -- what she's typically asking is, "do I still look good to you". If she really is asking whether she looks too fat, then she deserves to be lied to cuz you do not put your spouse in that position.


Haha....One time I told my girlfriend that she looked fat (I said it in a nice way, I thought) and I'll never hear the end of that. BIG mistake. Just lie about it!

Sometimes you just can't tell her that she really does look fat in that dress....

Sure I can. I'm very lucky to have my gf, she recognizes it, accepts it, and wants to get healthier and better. So if she asks and I say she still looks a little chunky in the dress, no feelings hurt, and she knows I'll tell the truth.

It's like these people I see on american idol, they're crying on the stage going, "but my friends all tell me I have a nice voice, they say I'm great..." And you know SOMEBODY told a hairy bunch of white lies.

Now I am shutting up, looking for a new avatar, .

Thanks for the heads up on this, I'll copy the Avatar now and put up in the office. :D

Well, we all lie sometimes. However, if someone just lies for the sake of lying like this guy, or about stupid things he has no reason to lie about, he is baaaad news. There's an old saying- murderers may only commit one murder, but liars never stop lying. Of course, lying about a dress making you look fat is a bit different than lying about fooling around or whatever. The problem is that when you start out with a lie, you have to keep lying to cover it up and then juggle all the lies and then it just gets so big you can't get unstuck. For pathological liars, it's not a problem. THey get caught but don't care; they can't stop lying and just keep doing it.

But for the rest of us ,keep in mind that once you lose someone's trust, it's nearly impossible to get it back. It's like trying to unscramble an egg. The truth does hurt initially, but it heals. Lies keep stabbing at the wound and it gets worse. Personally, I prefer to walk in the light of the truth, as they say.

Very well said!

I especially like the unscrambling the egg bit, I'll be using that one.

Wabbit, your signature: Bike will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no bike.

Isn't that kind of like what Free-wheelin Franklin use to say? Crum lives on in Bike Forum!

Let's not turn this into a "gun thread"!

*ahem*

look at my new toy!!!

oy!

nineteen!

i really have a problem with the idea that there is a single objective truth that we all chose to stick to or not. there are so many subtle shades of interpretation in any situation that one person's truth could be another's falsehood quite easily. we should disclose the full truth of everything? okay, but how far and how many of the infinite details of the truth? and how do you get past the subtly different understandings we have of different words and ideas?

the bottom line is that truthfulness is an admirable, but unattainable goal. it's something that we should perhaps reach for in the understanding that we will never grasp it. expecting complete truth is expecting the impossible. it is an urealistic standard for ourselves and for the people in our lives. holding anyone to that standard is unfair and will cause a great deal more pain than accepting the subjective nature of truth.

i really have a problem with the idea that there is a single objective truth that we all chose to stick to or not. there are so many subtle shades of interpretation in any situation that one person's truth could be another's falsehood quite easily. we should disclose the full truth of everything? okay, but how far and how many of the infinite details of the truth? and how do you get past the subtly different understandings we have of different words and ideas?

the bottom line is that truthfulness is an admirable, but unattainable goal. it's something that we should perhaps reach for in the understanding that we will never grasp it. expecting complete truth is expecting the impossible. it is an urealistic standard for ourselves and for the people in our lives. holding anyone to that standard is unfair and will cause a great deal more pain than accepting the subjective nature of truth.

you need to be a lawyer or a senator or something nice like that.

i really have a problem with the idea that there is a single objective truth that we all chose to stick to or not. there are so many subtle shades of interpretation in any situation that one person's truth could be another's falsehood quite easily. we should disclose the full truth of everything? okay, but how far and how many of the infinite details of the truth? and how do you get past the subtly different understandings we have of different words and ideas?

the bottom line is that truthfulness is an admirable, but unattainable goal. it's something that we should perhaps reach for in the understanding that we will never grasp it. expecting complete truth is expecting the impossible. it is an urealistic standard for ourselves and for the people in our lives. holding anyone to that standard is unfair and will cause a great deal more pain than accepting the subjective nature of truth.

Some excellent points. Truth depends on perspective. Take as an example witnesses to the same car accident but they are standing on opposite corners. Their interpretations of what happened may be entirely different, yet they are telling their version of the truth. It's a problem journalists and other recorders of history, as well as courts and other forms of mediation, of course, have to sort out, usually by validation or cross-referencing.

Of course, when someone's "truth" becomes fundamentalism, that's when the widespread problems seem to arise.

At a personal level, I agree that lying by omission is pretty well the worst type because there is nothing to be suspicious of. At least a downright lie can be verified or not.

At a personal level, I agree that lying by omission is pretty well the worst type because there is nothing to be suspicious of. At least a downright lie can be verified or not.

This dude is REAL good at that. He just forgets to tell her stuff. Then she might eventually ask about it and he is like "Oops, I forgot to tell you about that." And even then, he still lies.

Maybe he is a compulsive liar. Who knows? All I know is that my friend can do better than that.

Jamie, I dig the new look, did you get your hair done, is that it?

you need to be a lawyer or a senator or something nice like that.
why? because i think it's unreasonable and unhealthy to hold people to unattainable standards? try to spend a week discolsing everything and being completely truthful about everything to everyone.

it's better to recognize our shortcomings and work with them than beating each other up for having them.

No one can tell the total and absolute truth every time we open their mouth. But this guy lies to my friend all the time...at least once or twice a day...for a variety of reasons. And he doesn't just tell little white lies about how he hates the dress she is wearing or something, sometimes he tells whoppers. And lies by ommision are a common, everyday thing for him. Maybe it is something that he can't control. In that case, he needs to get help for it. Surely there is some kind of help for a compulsive liar?

Oh well, my friend will eventually get wise and move on.

I went to college with a girl that was a good friend up into senior year. She lived with me and a couple of buddies and this was our first time living with her. She turned out to be a compulsive liar. She would lie about everything. It got to the point where none of us talked to her anymore. She could not be honest with us at all. When she was in high school she said she was bulemic, which I know was true and we all agreed that that is where the lying started and it snowballed from there.

Jamie, if your friend really likes this guy, and he has good qualities besides this one, (which is kind of a big bad quality to have), she needs to sit him down and call him out on it, if she hasn't already. Giving up on the guy and moving on is not going to help him. He is going to go through his life continuing down this road. Maybe he has self esteem problems where he feels he needs to lie to make himself feel better. The kids who were picked on in gradeschool usually started telling stories to make themselves look better amongst the cool kids. It could have started there and he never new how to stop.

If your friend sits him down and opens up to him maybe he will try to amend his ways. Have her tell him she is going to call him out every time he lies. This reminds me of that movie Boys and Girls where Jason Biggs' character was a pathological liar. He would lie about everything and in the end he started to be truthful. Sidetracked. Anyways, long post, but my vote is if your friend likes this guy she needs to have an intervention with him. If he can't stop, then it is time to move on. And no, it is never right to lie to a person especially someone you are in an intimate relationship with. Unless she is pregnant, then you tell her whatever she wants to hear because hell hath no fury like a pregnant woman. I'm done.

What IS the correct answer to~ "Honey, do I look fat in these pants?"

uh?

What IS the correct answer to~ "Honey, do I look fat in these pants?"

uh?

What was that Tommy Boy quote? Does this suit make me look fat? No, your face does.

Poll: Who here lies while on their bike?

:p

:roflmao:

Who tells their "significant other" exactly how much they spend on bike stuff ? ;) anybody?

What IS the correct answer to~ "Honey, do I look fat in these pants?"

uh?

I think you have to fake a seizure or something.

:roflmao:

Who tells their "significant other" exactly how much they spend on bike stuff ? ;) anybody?


I tell her how much if she asks. Usually I just say, "I need such and such and it'll be around so many $". She doesn't really care as long as I don't bankrupt us.;)

On topic, I'd say you're friend needs to drop the guy like a bad habit. Life's too short to have to deal with that kind of tool. I like lying to be funny(y'know, stuff so outrageous it can't be true) or ommitting details to surprise people or spare feelings, maybe. This discussion reminds me of the song Liar by the good Mr. Rollins.

"I'll lie again and again,
And I'll keep lyin'...

I promise."

As an aside, I gotta admit you had me fooled with your previous avatar--I had no idea you were actually a muppet...:D

Liars like this guy don't reform unless they admit they have to. But he probably lies to himself as well. I've known a few like that, and they never change. You'll run into them ten years later and they are still lying about everything.

Someone answering a question like "Do I look fat in this?" with a "I think you look just fine." is a little different than "Who did you go to lunch with?" with the answer "My dad" when it was really a woman from work. Hell to get caught in that lie, too. Maybe it would be better for the gentleman in question to just buckle down and try telling the truth instead of lying to his lady. If you always tell the truth, then you won't get caught in a lie.

in fact, every situation is going to be different from any other situation. there are no absolutes. if you've had and entirely innocent lunch with a female co-worker and your particularly jealous significant other asks "who did you go to luch with?" do you 'fess up? even if she's going to jump to unfounded and unreasonable conclusions? whose interests would be served by this?

maybe she [the hypothetical mate in the scenario above] has taken it upon herself to run his [the hypothetical mate's mate] life, and has been shutting off his friends? what are his choices?

i'm not saying that this is the case in any of the sitiuations discussed here, only that the truth is subject to all kinds of contexts and conditions. there are times when honesty is not the best policy. we should be sensitive to that, and to the fact that any relatyionship is going to be far more complex and nuanced than outsiders can imagine.