Last night I was riding home on a 4 lane (two each way) road in my neighborhood. During the day you can park on the sides, but during rush hour there is no parking. I was riding home during rush hour yesterday, staying in the right lane at about the right tire tread (3-4 feet from curb). Most people will switch lanes to pass me. Some will go mostly into the left lane. This doesn't bother me too much, as there is still usually at least 5 feet between my bike and the car passing me.
Last night a woman woman in a big Explorer passed me with about 1 foot of clearance. I slapped her rear quarter panel as she went by. I wasn't angry, I didn't flip her off, and I didn't chase her down or anything (I've done that before, and decided it was pretty stupid). I just wanted her to know that... I don't know. What did I want her to know? She must've known I was there; it was daylight, I was wearing a white jacket. I suppose I wanted her to know that her passing me wasn't very safe. I don't know if it effectively communicated that, but I hope she at least thought about it. "Why did that guy slap my car?" Perhaps she will just determine that I'm an idiot, but perhaps she will examine her driving technique and find it lacking.
So... should I refrain from doing this in the future?
The BikeForums Team
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You were commuting without a handgun? I would have waited until she passed, and then shot her tires out.
Not really.
thechrisproject
You were commuting without a handgun? I would have waited until she passed, and then shot her tires out.
Not really.
I left it at work. I might start commuting with a knife between my teeth.
tulip
She probably didn't even see you or notice the tap. She was probably yapping on her cell phone or changing the DVD for the kids in back. I don't tap cars in my neighborhood because you never know who's packing. I figure karma will catch up to them sooner or later.
PhattTyre
I think that's alright. It's gotta make the driver think, "I was close enough for him to touch my car, maybe that's too close." She probably just doesn't realize how wide her SUV is.
sydney
I left it at work. I might start commuting with a knife between my teeth.Yeah, get a really big Rambo Knife. That'll send em a message for sure.
Shorty
It also might make her worried she hit you (if she didn't see you slap the car, but just heard the noise. Maybe she should be worried at only 1 foot of clearance. &*$# SUVs.
Anthony King
I feel your pain. I don't know how effective it is, though. The wise need no instruction and the ignorant can't be made to learn. More than likely the oblivious person doesn't even know you slapped the car, but just thinks "What is that noise?"
I have slapped cars myself when they've done something wildly stupid. You may get a lot of "you shouldn't do that" replies here, but I don't see a huge problem with letting somebody know you're there. I'm not sure it is a highly effective action, but in situations such as the one you describe there isn't really a very effective option available. Assuming they are able to connect the dots and know where the noise came from, it does at least let somebody know they came very close to you.
noisebeam
I usually find that when cars pass with a speed differental that allows for reaching out and tapping car, then they are not too close given the relative speeds.
Its only when car pass this close when they are at 45-50mph that it bugs me, but there is no way I could have quick enough reflexes in these cases to slap them.
Al
TitaniuMerlin
I've had a very similiar thing happen to me. I was riding with two other people (brothers) and one was behind me, the other in front of me. We were going through the center of a nearby town where the road is two lanes (one in each direction) with a shoulder big enough to easily park cars in (since that is what it is used for). Since the shoulder was empty, we were riding in it, and we begin nearing a side street (opposite side of the road). So a car heading our direction slows down to make the left hand turn. A car comes up behind and proceeds to pass the car by going into the shoulder. Only problem is, the three of us are in the shoulder. The car nearly takes us all out (we have to swear towards the curb to avoid being hit - luckily the shoulder was bigger then most otherwise we would have been toast). I yell and hit the rear of the car with my hand while the guy ahead of me slaps the passenger side window really hard and yells out obscenities. Pretty close call, but what the driver was thinking swerving into the shoulder where there are three cyclists is beyond me.
tippy
Florida Traffic code says a vehicle, when overtaking another vehicle, has to have a 3 foot or 1 meter clearance minimum. My wingspan is about 6 feet so reaching directly to my side has to be shorter than three feet. I guess if the vehicle is close enough to touch, the driver is violating this traffic code.
I could have done this twice yesterday. Of all vehicles, it was a Brevard County school bus. I wasn't even in a lane. I was using the little 3 foot wide section of shoulder. The bus driver passed me with it's right wheels across (on the shoulder side) the white line seperating the right lane from the shoulder. I figured it was a fluke and besides, I was still alive. Unfortunately, the same bus caught me again and did the same thing. Somebody in the front seat passenger side actually raised up and looked back to see what I was going to do. I have the number to the bus and the times it was happening. If it occurs again, I will contact the county school system and report it (assuming I don't get run over next time).
tippy
TimArchy
I've slapped a few cars. mostly in intersections where they like to cut across my path without looking. my philosophy is to save my ass first and if there's time left after that to give them a slap, game on. never had anyone chase after me or anything. but my friend did have a gun pulled on him for flipping someone off.
tim
STEEKER
I have hit a few cars myself :rolleyes: but normaly I just yell real loud and I can really YELL,,the drivers have this look when I do >> :eek: oh I normal swear too :D ,..........Steeker
noisebeam
Florida Traffic code says a vehicle, when overtaking another vehicle, has to have a 3 foot or 1 meter clearance minimum. My wingspan is about 6 feet so reaching directly to my side has to be shorter than three feet. I guess if the vehicle is close enough to touch, the driver is violating this traffic code.
tippy
Oh I know the law and I am very aware of drivers that break it when passing me on a near daily basis. The only point I was making is that when drivers pass closer than 3ft and it is dangerous they are typically going at a speed differential that makes it near impossible to reach out and hit the car (a bus does give you more time to react).
When I get passed in busy traffic that is going a slower 25-30mph or so and I am going 20-25mph I expect (even if illegal) to be passed closer than 3ft and I don't find it dangerous. I would say this is pretty normal in congested downtown type areas where cars and bikes are passing each other and pedestrians and other obsticals closer than 3ft.
Al
HigherGround
Do you think slapping the car is more likely to educate the motorist and change their opinion / behavior, or do you think it will be more likely to have a confrontational effect and antagonize relations between that particular driver and cyclists? Perhaps I'm cynical, but I'm guessing the latter. People get pretty possessive of their cars (especially the more expensive they are) and I'm inclined to think they'll care more about their car being struck, than about your rights as a cyclist. I'd speculate (and granted, I have no proof) that such actions would probably tend to harm their image of cyclists, rather than making the drivers change their behavior and attitudes.
Mars
My counsel is to use caution when tapping/slapping cars. People can get very strange and angry over such actions. You never know who is crazy, drunk, stoned, or all three. In fact, I'm guessing if they did something stupid enough to provoke a response like slapping their car, the probabilites are better than average that they will one of the above. Then, if they decide to rub you out for touching their car, all they have to do is turn the wheel and hit the gas....
ukmtk
A Dutch friend of mine told me that in Holland it was normal for a cyclist to slap the roof of a car that had annoyed them in some way. It is quite disconcerting to a driver. But my friend recommended that one only do it when the cyclist and driver are going their separate ways to avoid a confrontation.
Treespeed
I slapped cars all the time in Seattle, but now that I commute through South Central Los Angeles I've ceased all car slapping. It's just not worth getting shot over. Though by far the rudest and most dangerous drivers have been the USC students. I don't know if its kids being kids or the sense of entitlement to the world.
John E
Do you think slapping the car is more likely to educate the motorist and change their opinion / behavior, or do you think it will be more likely to have a confrontational effect and antagonize relations between that particular driver and cyclists? Perhaps I'm cynical, but I'm guessing the latter. People get pretty possessive of their cars (especially the more expensive they are) and I'm inclined to think they'll care more about their car being struck, than about your rights as a cyclist. I'd speculate (and granted, I have no proof) that such actions would probably tend to harm their image of cyclists, rather than making the drivers change their behavior and attitudes. I wrestle with this, as well, and I fully understand your concerns. However, how DO we constructive, tactfully, and assertively educate offending motorists? Deep inside, no one really takes kindly to being corrected, even when in the wrong,
Leo C. Driscoll
In Boston, we throw roses at SUVs that pass us within inches;-)
Last week, in a close encounter of the turd kind with an SUV, I lost a Bell convex mirror mounted on a Cane Creek Ergo II bar-end. (I found as Bell advertised, this little jewel is shatter-resistant ;-)
Last summer. I was punched by an animal in an SUV full of 20-something animalia on infamous Lansdowne Street in the shadow of the Green Monster. I just let the big mo run the Eldridge Grade and somehow I didn't crash. Approaching the next intersection, the animal tried it again. Since I'm a lefty (mostly), I was able to give him a Sanchen chop. The enraged animalia slowed and swerved to sideswipe the Eldridge Grade but I jumped the curb on the one-way street and did a 180.
Last story. Winter of 2001, I was becoming an RVC (reluctant vehicular cyclist) after my son while riding in the Fenway was hit by a driver who ran a red light. The bike was totaled and my son now has a bionic hip. So in the dangerous Fenway, I tended to retreat to "bikeways/walkways" when commuting. One morning, an SUV driver jumped the curb onto a "bikeway/walkway" and drove head-on at my 2000 Marin San Anselmo. I forgot all of Ned Overend's warnings about squeezing brake levers and did a life-saving endo that landed me way down the slope of a snowy embankment. Gracias, San Anselmo. The Marin ended up looking like the Salvador Dali bikes on the BU campus that have been trashed after being locked too long to meters.
:roflmao: :roflmao:
norton
...... The wise need no instruction and the ignorant can't be made to learn.....
..... :beer: .....
DogBoy
The wise need no instruction and the ignorant can't be made to learn.....
you can only be ignorant once. After that its just plain stupidity.
hammye
I like slapping, tapping, and punching cars. It really depends on how stupid a move they may have done and how close to pain (death) they put me. I also try to have an escape route ready in my head if something may get a little out of control or not.
HigherGround
I wrestle with this, as well, and I fully understand your concerns. However, how DO we constructive, tactfully, and assertively educate offending motorists? Deep inside, no one really takes kindly to being corrected, even when in the wrong,
I agree, it is a difficult dilemma that I admit I don't have an answer to. In moments of anger, I have resorted to internationally recognized single finger salutes that convey the message, but have no positive impact... In moments of self-restraint I may just wave my hand in a "palms up" manner as if to ask, "What was up with that bone head move?" I may feel better temporarily, but I doubt either of these gestures make a lasting, constructive impact. I think that at times like these, the best I can hope for is to not antagonize the situation and to maybe get my point across without making it worse for the next cyclist the driver encounters down the road. If you find any good answers, I'm certainly willing to hear about them! :beer:
DieselDan
Slap a car the wrong way and you could end up with a broken hand. I've slapped a few cars. Most of the time it was to push off to keep my distance. I did slap the hood of a very slow moving car that was holding up a line of cars along an admittadly senic street with beautiful historic houses on one side and an equally beautiful vista of the river and nearby islands on the other side. I passed the line and slapped the uberslow car on the hood as I past to get his attention.
B10Cycle
I've slapped a few cars. mostly in intersections where they like to cut across my path without looking. my philosophy is to save my ass first and if there's time left after that to give them a slap, game on. never had anyone chase after me or anything. but my friend did have a gun pulled on him for flipping someone off.
tim
On a random note, I've had a gun pulled on me once. Non-cycling related, but I think that it shows what kind of nuts are out there. My friends and I are sitting in a park in Spain drinking a few beers and just hanging out and talking. It's getting dark, but were in a very well lit park with a lot of people in a very nice part of town- some of the most expensive hotels in the city box in the park on two sides along with ritzy restaurants and such. All the Spanish people we met were very friendly. Anywho, a man and his girlfriend come up to us and ask for a cigarette. We say we don't have any and my friend makes conversation with him, that kind of seemed like a bad idea to me as this guy looked a little sketchy and his girl looked mildly hookerish, but after a few minutes he seemed nice enough. He then grabs my friends camera and demands that we pay him to get it back. My friend snatches the camera back which displeases this man who then reaches for my friends bag. I jump up and my other friends immediately do the same. This set the guy off, he starts to reach in his little bag and pull out a gun and is yelling in Spanish all the horrible things he's going to do to us. I'm confident he would have shot us if his girl hadn't calmed him down- she was screaming "They're only children!", but in Spanish. He told us to come back the next night to see who was a real man, yeah we didn't show. We bolted from there and never came back. Scary stuff.
I know that has nothing to do with cycling, but imagine if you slapped some nut like this' car or flipped him off. He'd think nothing of it to shoot you or run you over. That's what I think about when I'm trying to hold back from slapping a car.
JohnBrooking
I haven't had an opportunity for slapping yet, and I don't know if I would. I have, on occasion, yelled at a retreating driver who just pulled out in front of me or something. Profanity, though not common, is not altogether unknown.
And (to digress) just today on the way home, the light I was approaching changed to red with one or two cars ahead of me, which stopped, and as I was slowing behind them (at about the right tire position), the car that had been behind me pulled ahead and moved back over towards me, not close enough to hit me but definitely intruding on my space. I was a bit miffed, but there he was right beside me. I contented myself with wheeling ahead of him on the right while waiting for the light, then edging in slightly to make sure he knew my intention. No further escalation. Perhaps I should have been taking more of the lane to begin with to prevent this.
TLN
I used to slap and punch cars when they got too close. I would also carry a couple of large gauge ball bearings in my back pocket to throw. I even kicked the headlight out of a car that bumped my back tire at a stop light. (Driver trying to be funny) But after reading many stories of bikers getting shot by f-ing retards and gutless pieces of ****e... it just isnt worth it. No matter what you have or do, you cant out match a firearm... unless you carry one yourself. Like posted earlier, smart people dont have to be educated and the ignorant.....well stupidity should be painful!
mirona
I've never slapped a car, but I did tap a guy's hood once because he was too close. He was making a left turn and veered right (towards me) before turning. I just wanted to let him know I was there.
Funny thing, I was carrying my bike on the side of the road. This lady came dangerously close over the white line. She hit something on my bike, because I heard a metal-on-metal sound when she passed. She was coming to a red light and was going to stop anyway, why the **** did she need to get around me so bad? So I kicked her bumper when she had to inevitably stop for the red light 2 feet in front of me. I was laughing so hard. She must've been so scared of my lycra-clad ass because she sped off so fast when it turned green.
jimmythefly
I'd like a paint-eating liquid that could also be carried in a water bottle. Squirt car, driver doesn't get too mad as it's only water...until minutes later when you're gone and so is their paint job.
Ok, so I'm dreaming and really, the effort it would take to prepare and use such a weapon would out weigh just ignoring dumbass drivers.
I've heard from motorcycle-riding friends that a well placed foot will easily take off a side mirror. Once again, this is probably more fun to think about than to actually do.
steveknight
I think that's alright. It's gotta make the driver think, "I was close enough for him to touch my car, maybe that's too close." She probably just doesn't realize how wide her SUV is.
or her own rear end (G)
Phiber
I got passed in a similar manner not long ago. Except the guy laid on his horn!! Oo I was so angry! If I had a rock he wouldn't have had a rear windscreen. Or a face for that matter, because when he would have stopped and gotten out I would've had that too!
I am going to start carrying stress balls in my rear jersey pocket to either launch or squeeze.
SpokesInMyPoop
Hey everybody... i'm new here.
I was thinking of carrying a paintball gun for such an occasion.
Arm all the cyclists and get them to pelt people's cars when somebody comes close to hitting them, cutting them off, not looking both ways (and causing you to collide with a car), and so on. It'd also benefit cyclists by being able to distinguish bad drivers from good. Then again, you probably can't aim that well on a bike.
I thought it was a cool idea :B
chicharron
Last night I was riding home on a 4 lane (two each way) road in my neighborhood. During the day you can park on the sides, but during rush hour there is no parking. I was riding home during rush hour yesterday, staying in the right lane at about the right tire tread (3-4 feet from curb). Most people will switch lanes to pass me. Some will go mostly into the left lane. This doesn't bother me too much, as there is still usually at least 5 feet between my bike and the car passing me.
Last night a woman woman in a big Explorer passed me with about 1 foot of clearance. I slapped her rear quarter panel as she went by. I wasn't angry, I didn't flip her off, and I didn't chase her down or anything (I've done that before, and decided it was pretty stupid). I just wanted her to know that... I don't know. What did I want her to know? She must've known I was there; it was daylight, I was wearing a white jacket. I suppose I wanted her to know that her passing me wasn't very safe. I don't know if it effectively communicated that, but I hope she at least thought about it. "Why did that guy slap my car?" Perhaps she will just determine that I'm an idiot, but perhaps she will examine her driving technique and find it lacking.
So... should I refrain from doing this in the future?
I think that you know the answer to this. It is not safe to respond to idiot drivers, esp if you are alone, and they are in a car. I have done the same thing in the past, and have gotton into violent situations. Even though the women in the big Explorer was wrong, responding like that is not a good idea. Just let them go, unless you get cornered or trapped with no escape, or assaulted. Then, kick ass.
Dchiefransom
Hey everybody... i'm new here.
I was thinking of carrying a paintball gun for such an occasion.
Arm all the cyclists and get them to pelt people's cars when somebody comes close to hitting them, cutting them off, not looking both ways (and causing you to collide with a car), and so on. It'd also benefit cyclists by being able to distinguish bad drivers from good. Then again, you probably can't aim that well on a bike.
I thought it was a cool idea :B
Not a bad idea!! Pull out something that looks like a gun, and in a few minutes you'll be looking down the barrels of a few police revolvers and shotguns.
H23
I've done it.-- slapped cars, taxi's, buses full of people and other vehicles...
I stopped doing stuff like that years ago because I came to the realization that it doesn't teach anyone anything. It only gets people red-hot angry.
Also, especially these days, more and more people are _psycho_ about their cars. I mean, totally out-of-their-minds insane. Its just better to let things slide.
TLN
I'd like a paint-eating liquid that could also be carried in a water bottle. Squirt car, driver doesn't get too mad as it's only water...until minutes later when you're gone and so is their paint job.
Ok, so I'm dreaming and really, the effort it would take to prepare and use such a weapon would out weigh just ignoring dumbass drivers.
I've heard from motorcycle-riding friends that a well placed foot will easily take off a side mirror. Once again, this is probably more fun to think about than to actually do.
Its called Zip Strip.... but I wouldnt recommend carrying it in a plastic bottle or else you will be losing your paint job!
KrisPistofferson
In Boston, we throw roses at SUVs that pass us within inches;-)
Last week, in a close encounter of the turd kind with an SUV, I lost a Bell convex mirror mounted on a Cane Creek Ergo II bar-end. (I found as Bell advertised, this little jewel is shatter-resistant ;-)
Last summer. I was punched by an animal in an SUV full of 20-something animalia on infamous Lansdowne Street in the shadow of the Green Monster. I just let the big mo run the Eldridge Grade and somehow I didn't crash. Approaching the next intersection, the animal tried it again. Since I'm a lefty (mostly), I was able to give him a Sanchen chop. The enraged animalia slowed and swerved to sideswipe the Eldridge Grade but I jumped the curb on the one-way street and did a 180.
Last story. Winter of 2001, I was becoming an RVC (reluctant vehicular cyclist) after my son while riding in the Fenway was hit by a driver who ran a red light. The bike was totaled and my son now has a bionic hip. So in the dangerous Fenway, I tended to retreat to "bikeways/walkways" when commuting. One morning, an SUV driver jumped the curb onto a "bikeway/walkway" and drove head-on at my 2000 Marin San Anselmo. I forgot all of Ned Overend's warnings about squeezing brake levers and did a life-saving endo that landed me way down the slope of a snowy embankment. Gracias, San Anselmo. The Marin ended up looking like the Salvador Dali bikes on the BU campus that have been trashed after being locked too long to meters.
:roflmao: :roflmao:
Are you a secret agent? You seem to have an inordinate amount of dangerous encounters, and I thought Colorado was full of hippies....
becnal
If you can reach over and slap their car, then they are too close. Good to let them know it!
ivan_yulaev
I'd like a paint-eating liquid that could also be carried in a water bottle. Squirt car, driver doesn't get too mad as it's only water...until minutes later when you're gone and so is their paint job.
Ok, so I'm dreaming and really, the effort it would take to prepare and use such a weapon would out weigh just ignoring dumbass drivers.
I've heard from motorcycle-riding friends that a well placed foot will easily take off a side mirror. Once again, this is probably more fun to think about than to actually do.
It's called brake fluid...should be 2$ or so for a small bottle.
CVB
I'll just add my $0.02:
I was walking my dog in my neighborhood one night several years ago when a couple of yayhoos came tearing around a corner. They veered toward me, seemingly on purpose, forcing me to jump into the space between two parked cars. I had quick enough reflexes to kick the driver's side door as they past - must've been the adrenaline surge of the moment. It was really satisfying, as I could feel the door actually give under my foot - it surely left a permanent dent. What came next scared me worse than when they came swerving towards me - they threw the car in reverse and came after me. I grabbed the dog, jumped a fence, ran through backyards and slipped into my backdoor. I could hear them tearing through my neighborhood over and over again for the next 20 minutes.
Point is, I was right, they were WAY wrong, but they still thought it was worthwhile and justified to come after me, presumably NOT to see if I was okay (presumably to make sure I wasn't okay). You take your life in your hands when you hit cars.
SpokesInMyPoop
Not a bad idea!! Pull out something that looks like a gun, and in a few minutes you'll be looking down the barrels of a few police revolvers and shotguns.
paintball guns are easily distinguishable for that very reason. in my opinion, they look like fancy waterguns. nobody would have a magazine clip on the top of their gun! (made of plastic, no less)