Touring - Campgrounds or Cheap Motels?

On my upcoming extended USA tour I planned to camp for 3 days out of 4 because I thought that Motels everynight would be much more expensive than mostly camping.
But today I talked to another Australian guy who toured across the USA 6 years ago and he said the cost difference between Campgrounds and El Cheapo Motels was neglible and worth the little bit extra for a good nights rest.(Campgrounds can be noisy).
Although he did say that the Campgrounds in National Parks were cheap, (but high-density).
In the 6 online journals I have read, the Campsites seem to be usually about $15 and the fleabag Motels about $30.
What say you all? I'm not as young and tough as I used to be. Should I abandon the heavy trailer or panniers and just take my credit card?
Clear Skies, Max

Have you considered hostels?

http://www.hihostels.com/openHome.do

If it were me, I'd camp a few days, then spend a night in a hostel, then camp a few more nights, etc.. I did that in Australia when I was touring there, and the hostels were quite nice - clean and comfortable ... as compared with seedy low-priced motels.

Camping over there cost anywhere from free to about $10 each per night.
Hostels were anywhere from about $15 - $28 each per night.

el cheapo motels, often used as the local brothel, can be quite, umm, noisy.
but bring yer earplugs, and you can often find rooms in small towns for $15-20.

national brand cheap motels will run $30+. check the websites for motel 6 and
super 8 to find locations and prices.

camping is often free in small town parks. check with the courthouse/police/sheriff
for permission.

you can also camp free on zillions of acres of public lands (blm,nfs).

There also are a lot of journals that make use of the free campgrounds as saddlesores mentions.

Why not do both. There is not requirement for you to camp out every night. But motels can become expensive and rather solitary. They might be handy when you are wet, tired and cold and not camping in small town parks or commercial campgrounds are available. But that bugdet can take a beating, when it could be spent on other little leisures and pleasures.

I gather you will need to understand that caravan parks here in Australia are a little different from the RV parks in the US.

Machka, thanx but I live in Australia and my tour is going to be in the USA.
Saddlesores, thanx, are "motel 6" and "super 8" motel chain brand names? I heard if you camp in small town parks you often get harassed by the local delinquents? Camping in a field on public land is probably better than a noisy campground, but err, being Aussie I don't know what blm/nfs means?
Rowan, (+ Machka) the first line of my post says I'm touring in America, not Australia.

you can camp normally and when the weather´s just too miserable or you´re just too tired or you have nothing more than dirty laundries left in the panniers then go for hostels or motels.


I gather you will need to understand that caravan parks here in Australia are a little different from the RV parks in the US. there´s the possibility that i might do oz this summer but am not sure so haven´t done any research yet, so how a caravan park´s like?

Schumius, all I can say is that you generally get a larger plot or space than you do in the US. As in all countries Campgrounds off the tourist trail will be less crowded and possibly more "Quaint".
Check Wade Hatler's site for a lot of Aussie info and great photos, especially in the Outback.
http://www.wademan.com/VisionQuest/VQ_Australia1.htm

Both Motel 6 and Super 8 are brand names coast to coast, I stay when I drive coast to coast, always been CLEAN and in safe "Hoods. Cost, Rarely in the 30s range more likely in the 40s$. The independent mom and pop places can be just as clean and maybe cheaper but always ask to see the room first, they won't let u see it, you prob don't want to stay there, and the "hot sheet" places ARE in 'hoods you won't be riding.
Campgrounds can be friendlier, but if I'm tired after a long day I just want to sleep and get away early the next AM.
Oh, yeh. ck the beds in ultra cheapo motels if the mattress sags u AREN'T going to sleep well
The motels usually give a small discount if you are a member of AAA if u r a member in OZ bring it with you, It may work here, I always asked for a discount being over 55 even though I'm not a member of AARP or AAA and almost always got the discount, 10% I believe

Schu -

Lemme tell you a story about a "cheepo" hotel. On my first cross-country tour I stayed in the Sacajawea Hotel in Casper for $5 - yes, it was 1987, but still $5 was cheap. Of course, it was filled with winos and bums and the room was super funky. I put my tent fly over the bed and put my sleeping bag on top of that. Then in the middle of the night I heard a ferocious row going on. Turns out that two beat-up old drunks were parting company as a couple in the middle of the hallway - fighting over the ownership of a pathetic pile of possessions. I recall saying, "You pays your $5 - you gets your $5 worth."

I agree with Machka that hostels make a nice break, but I find camping preferable to motels not just on cost alone. I sleep better in campgrounds than motel rooms plus get an earlier start the next day. I can't tell you the number of times that I've listened to the TV in the next room past two in the morning or had someone warm up the diesel truck to go fishing starting at four.

There are three major public lands agencies in the West:
NPS - National Park Service - where you must usually camp in designated sites
NFS - National Forest Service - where you can camp anywhere
BLM - Bureau of Land Management - where you can camp anywhere

The "rule of thumb" >>> NPS - the spectacular stuff, NFS - the nice stuff, BLM - what was left over.
If it's not fenced or posted , then you can assume it's public land, also a lot of BLM land is fenced for grazing, but it still open to public use.

Small town parks are hardly filled with rowdy locals, small town police generally don't permit errant behavior to continue for long. More likely, you would get the 10-year-old kids doing the 101 question routine - but the camping would be fine. Also, in the Midwest and east there are often rural county parks that have limited camping - these are very pleasant.

Enjoy your trip. J

And if you use the adventurecycling.org maps (30,000 miles worth) they have made arrangements in most of the towns for cyclists to camp there. The one nice thing about this is that it us usually free and frequently has showers in the little league (baseball) field, town swimming pool etc. When crossing the US I was never bothered by anyone. The townspeople are used to bicyclists. I couldn't begin to tell you the number of free sodas (pop) that I got from locals.

Hi Max, welcome to the USA, I hope you have a great time here. Back to your original post, if your friend was comparing KOA campgrounds (A national chain $18-$28) with “El Cheapo, Fleabag" motels $25-$40, than he is right, but that comparison on a day to day basis is not typical.
On an “Extended USA tour” you will need to be as versatile as possible. There are many small towns that don’t have either campgrounds or motels. In these places you just ask the local Police where they will let you camp. I’ve never been turned down and they usually look out for you. I’ve slept in city parks (avoid these on the weekends), court house lawns, Fire stations and Post office lawns when nothing else was available.
More typically, campgrounds run between $8 and $18, and hostels between camping and motels. (The mid-west and south have few hostels)
So, in short, bring your camping gear and your credit card, you will need them both. Camp when the weather is nice and the campgrounds available and motel it when the weather turns bad or you just feel like it. Never feel guilty for staying in a motel, bike tours can be tough enough without guilt.
Again enjoy your trip. Greg

I thought I had pretty low standards, but it is a long time since I have found a motel in the US for $40, let alone $20 or $5. When you are cycle touring you have less flexibility than travelling by car, where it is easier to go to the next town if you don't like what you find in the town where you run out of energy (or light). Also, in North America the tax is added to the quoted price, and sometimes there is a local tax plus a state tax. I would budget $50 per night if staying at motels.

I agree with jamawani. Lots of great free stuff out there especially in the mnts. the Delorme Atlas has the areas(National forest/BLM/Nat.parks) well marked. You might want to take a water filter with you if you don't go to organized campground. Plus the solitude and scenery more than make up for the cold river baths. Those starry nights can't be had in the motel.

I thought I had pretty low standards, but it is a long time since I have found a motel in the US for $40, let alone $20 or $5. When you are cycle touring you have less flexibility than travelling by car, where it is easier to go to the next town if you don't like what you find in the town where you run out of energy (or light). Also, in North America the tax is added to the quoted price, and sometimes there is a local tax plus a state tax. I would budget $50 per night if staying at motels.

I thought the very same thing. For my cross country (Transam, Northern tier and pacific coast) last summer, I budgeted $55 per motel stay and was pleasantly surprised to pay much less. The lowest was $21 but this was not typical. Except for the West coast, the motels typically ranged between the high $20's and the high $30's. These are not chains, like Best Western or Marriot, but family run tiny little places. They were usually OK, not to write home about, but OK. When it's cold, raining and you have been fighting a headwind all day, they are GREAT!

On my upcoming extended USA tour I planned to camp for 3 days out of 4 because I thought that Motels everynight would be much more expensive than mostly camping.
But today I talked to another Australian guy who toured across the USA 6 years ago and he said the cost difference between Campgrounds and El Cheapo Motels was neglible and worth the little bit extra for a good nights rest.(Campgrounds can be noisy).
Although he did say that the Campgrounds in National Parks were cheap, (but high-density).
In the 6 online journals I have read, the Campsites seem to be usually about $15 and the fleabag Motels about $30.
What say you all? I'm not as young and tough as I used to be. Should I abandon the heavy trailer or panniers and just take my credit card?
Clear Skies, Max

I think the advice to do a combination of camping and hostels and cheap motels is good. If riding across the US remember there is many miles of nothing out west. Kind of like riding across Australia, ok not quite that barren. At any rate out west there are plenty of places to camp very easily that would be hidden from view, (its not just a flat desert thru Utah, Colorado ect). And most people are very friendly and would be happy give you assistance if needed.

MBD

I find camping preferable to motels not just on cost alone. I sleep better in campgrounds than motel rooms plus get an earlier start the next day. I can't tell you the number of times that I've listened to the TV in the next room past two in the morning or had someone warm up the diesel truck to go fishing starting at four. ture, i agree, that´s also why i like camping. but sometimes the´re folks making never ending noises from their radios, generators, whatever in the campsite, but of course, that´s if you stay in a campsite. go somewhere else and you can have a peace of mind.

Wow such a good reponse of information thank you all!

Individual cyclists experiences seem as varied as the weather, however all agree on flexibility and using a combination of accomodation as circumstances require.
It seems that camping in a secluded field or forest gives you the quietest nights sleep, which is important.
I would rather have a cold wash from a stream than no wash at all, you feel better afterwards.

I am not going to take a tiny single skin tent as the space and dryness of something better is worth the extra weight in bad weather. Same for the Therma-rest mattress, 1.75" Min. I'm using a "Quick-Pak" trailer so I have plenty of room for stuff.
Info gleaned from reading many journals on "CrazyGuyOnaBike.Com" has taught me many things. I will have an online journal there myself which will be posted before I commence my ride.Without Neil Gunton's site and Forums with helpful ppl like yourselves it would be all trial and error.

I don't know anything about bears or where they hang out, which would worry me when "bush camping". Information on bears would be appreciated, I notice that some of them are rather large.
The only dangerous carnivore we have here are crocodiles, but they live in the Far North and only eat Overseas Tourists who think it's a nice day for a swim. Also they don't chase bicycles, not far anyway.

Thank you all again I feel I have met new friends already!
Mark (Skymax) Townsend.

Jamawani and Machka ALWAYS give the best advice around, I tip my hat to you both! I'll just throw this in, State Parks and Forest service campgrounds are the nicest and will be quiet, in both, if you ask the campground attendant that you need a bit of quiet for sleeping, they usually will bend over backwards to help you, and we are suckers for foreigners in the west, really lay on the accent it will help you.
On the west coast, Oregon, Washington and Calif., the State Parks have bicycle camps. The best thing about these is being with other tourist for the evening, I learned alot about thing to see, resturants to try, or avoid, and about road conditions.

You might also check the Warm Shower List. Depending on your route you might find people on the list willing to give you free night on their floor....

http://www.rogergravel.com/wsl/vh_for_a.html

If you pass though Fayetteville, AR....give me a call.

Kevin

I've camped in State Parks in several different States. Every State has their own set of rules and fees, but the fees are consistent throughout that particular State. Most have "primitive" camping sites that are away from the weekenders but the showers and water are farther away.

Across the Midwest farm country there are few who wouldn't give you permission to set up camp on their land. As a kid I remember a few cyclists sleeping in their tents, using our shower and having breakfast all for the cost of 101 questions.

If you're planning on cutting through Minnesota give me a PM.

Wow, this bike touring idea seems good. I'm meeting new friends already and I havent left yet!
I should tell you that I have only done one 560Km tour before and that was a camping, supported mass-ride, so really I am a total newbie at this whole thing.
Never solo toured, never ridden a Recumbent. Sometimes the whole idea scares the bejeezuz outta me.

LOL Shifty, I have been in the States on business trips and when I spoke "Australian" ppl just looked at each other and said "Wha'd he say"? Because I am a Sales Rep I had to speak slowly and put a little "burr" in my voice to be understood. I worked for a light Aeroplane Manufacturer http://www.storch.com.au/ and we did trips in our aircraft to places like Oshkosh, Tampa and Memphis. On one trip we flew from LA to Florida in 5 days. It was all good but we never had time to kick back with the great ppl we met or really visit the amazing country we were flying over. That is the main reason for me returning to the US, so I can really experience it at my leisure. The Pacific West Coast is about the only place I do not have in my plans at the moment, if that's what you mean by "the West"?
Starting at Peter Stull, The Bicycle Man's, shop in Alfred NY (with my new Bent,,, new everything actually) I will be hopefully doing bits of, Northern Tier, Lewis+Clark, Transam, Great Rivers, Southern Tier, and Atlantic Coast are the main ideas at the moment. The Civil War sites in Virginia interest me very much as does Carolina. And I'm bringing my Paraglider to do a bit of flying at Roanoke Mt.
The idea of meeting other touring cyclists in Campgrounds would be well worth any occasional negative experiences. CLEAR SKIES, MAX.

o 560 km tour is good enough as a first try, mine was 30 km short of yours. just follow the common sense, precautions and i´m sure you´ll be fine.

they also have a hospitality list on http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/resources/?o=as&category_id=13

:D Have fun where ever you go, hope you find us welcoming. By west I generally mean west of the Rocky Mountains, there's an old saying that I firmly believe, "The West is The Best". Lot's of great ideas here, always more where those came from, feel free to ask.

At least on the East Coast, pretty much all of the prices above are vastly understated. On my recent tour, I was astonished to discover that even most state parks ranged between $25 and $45 per night for a campsite - apparently because the vast majority of campers along the coast don't actually camp... they arrive for the season in giant RVs, and expect to pay a fortune in exchange for lots of facilities that I, as a cyclist, had no need of. My understanding is that the rest of the country isn't quite so bad - yet - but be sure to allow a bit of wiggle room in your budget!

Machka, thanx but I live in Australia and my tour is going to be in the USA.
Saddlesores, thanx, are "motel 6" and "super 8" motel chain brand names? I heard if you camp in small town parks you often get harassed by the local delinquents? Camping in a field on public land is probably better than a noisy campground, but err, being Aussie I don't know what blm/nfs means?
Rowan, (+ Machka) the first line of my post says I'm touring in America, not Australia.


Yes, I know. That's why I posted the hostelling INTERNATIONAL link. :)


BTW - if the national parks in Canada are anything like the national parks in the US, you're looking at about $30/night to camp.

I don't know anything about bears or where they hang out, which would worry me when "bush camping". Information on bears would be appreciated, I notice that some of them are rather large.
The only dangerous carnivore we have here are crocodiles, but they live in the Far North and only eat Overseas Tourists who think it's a nice day for a swim. Also they don't chase bicycles, not far anyway.

Thank you all again I feel I have met new friends already!
Mark (Skymax) Townsend.

Most bears aren't very dangerous, but they live all across the US, especially in the west and north. You've got to take some precautions like: don't put food or anything that smells good inside your tent ... cache it away from your tent; don't approach a bear; do not even entertain the thought of approaching a cub - if you see a cub, go away from it. But bears won't chase cyclists. If you ride past one (like I have a number of times in the past), it'll likely just continue on about it's business. It is when they feel threatened, or when they might be able to get a quick meal (your sandwiches, not you) that they can become a problem.

Thanx Shifty, I think I met the wrong ppl last time I was in Cal. They kept asking me how much money I earnt and what car I drove within minutes of meeting them. I suppose it may be normal there. You get the Skymax prize for coolest avatar!
Brokenrobot you get the Skymax prize for coolest name, and thanx for the advice.
Machka, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. I looked at your site and would never doubt your advice.
The prices I quoted were from Earl Norman's L+W ride on Crazyguyonbike, but obviously they vary.
Money is not a real problem but from what I have learnt from all you guys it would be silly to pay extra to stay in a bad neighborhood Motel (in Australia motels can not be used for 1 hour rentals) full of sleazy badass ppl, that's not the real America, when you could spend time with other interesting like-minded biker/hiker travellers in a campground. After all this is a voyage of discovery for me to find the "Real" USA. More on that later if anyone is interested. Assuming you are mostly Americans.
Thanx Madhose but I don't know what a "PM" is. Is that Post Message? I'm new to forums.
Clear Skies, Max.

Many of our cheap, cheap hotels are pretty awful..Recall, one time there was no other hotel left in all of Long Beach..We had to choose a local cheap hotel, that would more likely be thought of as a house of action...Very noisy...Had mirrors on the ceiling..
We had to stay there...Because, we wanted to be very near the harbor to catch a boat at 4...
I would prefer hotels...You go with a group, makes hotels not so pricey...Sharing rooms...I like camping, but after 115 miles of hard climbing, puttting up camp seemed like a chore.Even in the country many of cheap hotels, are really flop houses that might not be safe..But, then camp sites can have unruly people about too.....
You plan to spend $30-$60 a night on Motel 6's...You will probably be safe ...To help organize safe and nice camp sites...Contact "Adventure Cycling" in Montana...They publish a cycling map that helps the touring cyclists to find decent accomdations, whether hotel or camping...I would not travel on bike without it...
Just decide which of their routes you choose , purchase those maps and your trip will much easier and you can ride assured to what the next night will bring..

OK time to clear the air.
I just discovered Personal Messages. I am new to forums.

There was a post from someone who accused me of "scolding" Machka when I restated my intention to tour in the US, not Australia.

This was simply a read error response on my part and no attitude at all was intended, and I don't think Machka took offense. I have already apologised for misunderstanding her post.

To the person who upbraided me please understand that there are cultural differences in communication styles that may sometimes be misinterpreted.
Australians are often brief and to the point using words economically. I appreciate that to ppl from other cultures that may appear to not be as perfectly polite as they may wish.

Machka having been to Australia will probably understand this.
I hope so.

Sincerely, Max.

Hey Max...ran into you on the Adventure Cycling forums...

I take it that you'll be carrying some camping gear? It's a compromise that should pay off. If given a choice, I generally prefer to sleep indoors but my tent is a nice backup plan that opens up a whole range of possibilities.

As for bears, many campgrounds in grizzly country provide a metal "bear box" to store food...and anything that even hints of food. A "serious" encounter with a bear would most likely occur while you are off your bike. Just be aware and make your presence known. Bears don't like to be surprised...especially if cubs are in tow.

Enjoy your ride.

Scott

Max..I think bears are vastly overated as a problem , just as sharks are...But, once camping up in Oregon...With the tent on the ground, you knew they had been around.. The next night we put our tent in the camper shell...just paranoid...Here in California, a bigger problem might be mountain lions, if you are in certain country..Think I would be more afraid of urban life in some areas..
But, another point about tents vs. cheap hotels...I did not like the weight distribution on the bike..Just made the bike feel more tipsy...Got tired of setting up camp, struggling with the tent..Risking camp sites with no showers. and the feel of the weight on the bike...Plus, if it has a hard ride , struggling to get the tent up before dark...
My tent is only like 3 lbs..Maybe just did not get expereinced enough...I have bought a trailer for next time to compare panniers vs. trailer.
But, with enough people a credit card tour seems far easier and comfortable...But carrying tents gives you variety..another thing to think about..In the American West, sometimes campsites are more than a days ride.
"Adventure Cycling" offers a column where you can try to connect with other riders doing the same intenary. Couple others to share the credit card with.?

Thanx Scott, Your right about the Bears/Sharks thing, I am a surfer too. I don't know what a "camper shell" is? I am using a Quick-Pak trailer as you have more stowage room, easier access, less flats or "wheel fatigue", lighter handling, no balance problems, being able to quickly disengage your load for quick local trips, etc.
I have chosen a heavier larger tent for more comfort because it seems all the light single skins leak when it REALLY rains. A few extra pounds weight is not noticed. Max.

SkyMax..A camper shell might be called a topper in Australia...or bed topper..Some one told me...A covering over the bed of a pick up truck..Thats what the yanks call it...Do you have linguistic conversion tables for 'Yank,' as we have for aussie.?
I would say, as a scuba diver here in California, I might worry about Great Whites more if I dove north of Monterey, Calif. (near San Francisco) than here off of the Southern California coast...Most divers who get attacked have stuff like abalone hanging off their weight belts.. Same with bears...Put your food in cans and elevate it, otherwise the smell will drive them nuts. Your food, if the bears don't get it the racoons will..
The reason I got tired of panniers...They said if you leave your panniers, even w/o food in them; the racoons will explore your pannier's contents? I think they thought it funny, since i pack/unpack my panniers so slowly early in the AM....Have you toured with your trailer yet..Going down steep grades takes getting used to , I am told...My tour with a trailer was only a mini trip on flat land.

you can camp normally and when the weather´s just too miserable or you´re just too tired or you have nothing more than dirty laundries left in the panniers then go for hostels or motels.

there´s the possibility that i might do oz this summer but am not sure so haven´t done any research yet, so how a caravan park´s like?

Are you used to American campgrounds ... like the kind with individual tenting spots complete with picnic table and fire pit?

Well, Australian caravan parks don't have that. They get you to pitch in a field, and there's a kitchen area which everyone uses. They've also got permanent caravans which you might be able to rent for the night ... but the one place I asked about that told me I would have to rent for a minimum of a week.

Australia also has rest areas similar to the American ones by the side of the road BUT they allow a 48 hour stay, so you can camp (unlike America).

Machka, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. I looked at your site and would never doubt your advice.

No problem. :)


Money is not a real problem but from what I have learnt from all you guys it would be silly to pay extra to stay in a bad neighborhood Motel (in Australia motels can not be used for 1 hour rentals) full of sleazy badass ppl, that's not the real America, when you could spend time with other interesting like-minded biker/hiker travellers in a campground.

Let me tell you ... I'd feel quite uncomfortable staying in a cheap motel anywhere in North America, but especially in the US. I felt much more comfortable in a nice clean, pleasant hostel! You're more likely to meet those like-minded biker/hikers in campgrounds and hostels.

OK time to clear the air.
I just discovered Personal Messages. I am new to forums.

There was a post from someone who accused me of "scolding" Machka when I restated my intention to tour in the US, not Australia.

This was simply a read error response on my part and no attitude at all was intended, and I don't think Machka took offense. I have already apologised for misunderstanding her post.

To the person who upbraided me please understand that there are cultural differences in communication styles that may sometimes be misinterpreted.
Australians are often brief and to the point using words economically. I appreciate that to ppl from other cultures that may appear to not be as perfectly polite as they may wish.

Machka having been to Australia will probably understand this.
I hope so.

Sincerely, Max.


Thanks to whoever stood up for me, I appreciate the support. :)

But, on the other hand, I wasn't offended or upset or anything. :)

OK, cyclezealot. First the funny stuff, although its very embarassing to admit it. When you first mentioned "camper shell" I thought it may have been some kind of giant bear-proof cage that you locked yourself into for the night. :rolleyes: I believe you about small furry creatures too, I once saw a handlebar bag that had been ruined by a chewing Squirrel, I didn't know Squirrels could do things like that! I don't know anyhing about Racoons either, but if you are wary of them I suppose they bite/chew too? I havent used a trailer yet, BUT I have read 2 journals where experienced riders purchased and used single-wheel trailers that scared the heck out of them downhill until they had a bit of experience towing them. Two-wheel trailers have a different kind of universal joint which does not exert dynamic torsional loads on the bicycle frame. Also two-wheel trailers do not transmit twisting side-loads to the bike frame from strong crosswinds. Larger wheels, like the 20" wheels on the "Quick-Pak" also help stabilise the trailer at speed due to their more pronounced gyroscopic effect. http://www.quik-pak.com/Quik-Pak%20bicycle%20trailer.html Most trailers have only 16" or even smaller plastic wheels. There are some really bad, yet expensive, trailers out there designed for Yuppies to go shopping with, they woud'nt survive a week on a real tour. The Burley Nomad is OK too, but they seem to have sacrificied 25% of the capacity to make it look "cool". And then charge you extra for an optional "rack" so that you can strap more stuff on top that's exposed to the rain ;) Also the wheels are smaller and not hand-built. Got a bit carried away there so I will posthis, go get a beer, then write to Machka. CYA.

Machka hi. Well that just shows you how varied the information that you get is. You are the first tourer to tell me that US campsites have their own individual kitchens. Most journals I have read only mention getting a patch of grass. An Aussie guy told me most of the campgrounds he visited were only small plots metres away from your neighbors. Of course campsites are very variable in service and space.

No overnight camping in roadside carparks eh? That's worth knowing.

Sleeping in Hostels would be fine for me but a terrible experience for anybody else in the room, or nearby rooms. I snore louder than a steam-driven freight train in a tunnel, and I would not be making any friends. Quite the opposite. Unless they have individual room options, but I don't know, I have never stayed at one.
As to safety, Touring Legend, Wade Hatler was asked if he "felt safe" when he was camping-touring in Russia. He replied that he felt safer than he would have in many US States. He mentioned places but I can't remember them now, so I see your point.
Max.

Machka hi. Well that just shows you how varied the information that you get is. You are the first tourer to tell me that US campsites have their own individual kitchens. Most journals I have read only mention getting a patch of grass. An Aussie guy told me most of the campgrounds he visited were only small plots metres away from your neighbors. Of course campsites are very variable in service and space.

Some campgrounds are pretty tightly spaced, but others aren't. Most campgrounds have a common picnic shelter with tables in it, but the "kitchens" are individual. And ummm ... they aren't kitchens like what I saw in Australia. In Australia the campground kitchens had fridges and stoves, and everything. In America, you'll have a fire pit to cook on, and a table. That's it.




No overnight camping in roadside carparks eh? That's worth knowing.

You'll see the signs - all about no camping overnight and fines and things.



Sleeping in Hostels would be fine for me but a terrible experience for anybody else in the room, or nearby rooms. I snore louder than a steam-driven freight train in a tunnel, and I would not be making any friends. Quite the opposite. Unless they have individual room options, but I don't know, I have never stayed at one.

Check out that site!! Yes, they do have individual rooms - they are often a little bit more expensive, but I'd still go that route over a really cheap motel!!



As to safety, Touring Legend, Wade Hatler was asked if he "felt safe" when he was camping-touring in Russia. He replied that he felt safer than he would have in many US States. He mentioned places but I can't remember them now, so I see your point.
Max.

I have an idea what he means. :D BTW - Canada is better than the US!! Canada is much like Australia, only a little bit colder. :)

Max, you misunderstood the post, US campgrounds have NO kitchen facilities, shared or otherwise. Depending on what kind of campground, you get at least a spot for your tent and running water, and some sort of bathroom. Then you *might* get some of the following, pretty much in this order: picinic table, flush toilet, cold water sink in the bathroom, hot water sink in the bathroom, coin-op showers, free showers, laundry facilities, small store.

For me, less is more - the camping with few facilities are usually "primitive" sites in national forest / bureau of land management areas, and are often situated on a lake or river, in a beautiful natural setting, and often cost $6-10. You also should inquire about "hiker/biker" sites, and check if there is a reduced rate for these, and other sites w/o parking nearby, sometimes called "walk-in". These places sometimes have a campground host, who lives there in a trailer - make friends with these folks, they are cool.

The places with lots of facilities are usually RV parks (KOA is a big national chain). The RV's here are HUGE here, the size of a bus, not kidding. RV parks usually suck - you get gravel instead of grass to pitch your tent on, the RV's run their generators all night, and they are near big noisy roads. And they are more expensive - $15-25. But, these places are good if you need to do laundry but don't want to take a day off to do it, and sometimes it's your only choice.

Don't forget to visit the other campers, sometimes you can find someone willing to share a site with you, and you will have company as well as a reduced rate. This works best in the primitive or national park type sites.

The other thing to look for is many towns have a town or county park, or a fairground. You have to figure out who to ask for permission for this, it's better to ask the cops (go to town hall) and then they know you are there and look out for you, rather than having them think you are a vagrant and getting hassled. I got good information about stuff like that at libraries - by talking to the librarian, at town/city hall, and at the chamber of commerce, which is like an information center for local businesses. Also, look for the "tourist information" sign (or the sign with the "i" on it) as you roll into town.

If you just need a shower, you can often buy one at a campground, RV park or trailer park, or look for the community fitness center, park, swimming pool or ball park.

RE: wildlife - bears and racoons want your food, not you. IF there is a bear problem in the area, the campground personel will know about it, ask them what to do. FOr racoons... well, you are on your own with those evil little...

RE: trailers - my bob tried to kill me on my first tour, i switched to panniers and I am MUCH happier.

RE: Hostels - there are hardly any of them, so they are not a realistic option. Only really available in bigger cities.

Camp. It's way better. Stay in hotels when you are sick of camping or it's cold and rainy or you feel like it. Stay in parks. in really tiny towns, go to the bar, first thing, and someone will buy you a beer, and then they will invite you to stay in their house.

Ok, I'm writing a book here, i better stop.

:D

anna

Valy..Think a bob would still kill you if your tour were in flat country?

I have done loads of solo and group touring and found motels to be reflective of their surroundings -for instance, in rural america, outside of New England, Eastern New York or anywhere within 100 miles of the either ocean, (not the gulf) and the whole state of California, you are most likely to find a cheap motel room. I was riding in Long Island and found nothing under $100 - probably double that now - an extreme example but I ended up sleeping on a beach and running afoul of local cops and cottagers but that's another story.
And if you're near a major city, forget about it. That said, you are unlikely to find a campground there either. In resort towns during low season, in out of the way places, and far from where the interstates intersect are the best places for cheap, private accomodation.
Personally, if I want to treat myself with a night off from camping I'll look for a Bed and Breakfast or homestay, just for the pampering, peace and quiet. A welcome adjustment is that wealthier states tend to subsidize their state parks more heavily and offer cheaper rates (California has many $1 sites for bikers/hikers with lots of amenities. Oregon too. I have found peace in parks, church yards, cemetaries, libraries, beaches, etc. with few problems.
Oh and avoid private RV parks -they always try to charge you the full rate, usually $15-20, but it never hurts to ask.

The economics of budget vacationeering are never simple. Hope this helps

rat speaks the truth about motel prices in California.and much of the country...YOu can find Motel 6's in most areas of California that go for under $75...If not in swank areas...When credit card touring , we would split it three ways...Not so bad..You get to a country town in say Kansas , $75 would buy you the Ritz.
In the US, i have had lousy luck finding B and b's and when you do , you have to pay for the valuable antiques...Not cheap as in Europe.

I am going to weigh in here on the cheap motels and campgrounds...from my perspective :rolleyes:

I RV...alot, in fact I live in mine for months on end while working out of town....I kind of look at it as a mobile base camp for cycling :p KOA Campgrounds (http://www.koakampgrounds.com/) if you plan to use them at all get the KOA card the saving will pay for itself in short order. One advantage to the KOA system is the ability to make online resevations or call ahead reservations. Many of the campgrounds are located near or on the old US Highways, which makes them readily accessible. Some are actually in urban areas while some are very rural. The KOA campgrounds run the gamut from a dump to a high end RV resort, some of them have a seperate tent area with nice grassy spaces, others are nothing more than a gravel parking lot. I have actually seen some wit h communal kitchen facilities. They also have the Kamping Kabins, which usually cost as much as a inexpensive hotel, but can come in handy if severe weather threatens and you are already there or near one. Privately owned RV parks are also hit or miss...State Parks, at least in the east are underfunded in many areas, so rates are on the rise and in some cases the cost of a night with hookups is approaching cheap motel rates. Facilities will vary by locale. Most in the NC and VA area have "unimproved" areas for tent camping, if they assign you a gravel spot you can ask for something else. If you are traveling on a major holiday weekend getting a space in some areas will be difficult if not impossible.

Cheap Hotels have been pretty well covered. I have had excellent results with a lot of the mom and pop hotels in the smaller towns. I look for one that has well kept grounds and parking lots. If they are willing to go to the trouble to keep the outside looking nice the insides usually are too. Name brands can be just as hit or miss. I have stayed in some Motel 6 that were just as nice as some upscale Hiltons, and some Hiltons that I would not force my pets to sleep in.

Racoons...they aren't wearing a mask for nothing. These furry little bandits are major oportunists. I have had them un-zip, un-latch, and un-snap a variety of containers over the years, if you suspend your food above the ground it will normally keep them out of it and provide some major entertainment as they try to figure out how to get it. :D

My .02 worth....FWIW

Aaron :)

Er, why would I want to tour in flat country? ;)

My trailer was loaded heavily (overloaded, maybe) because it was an 80 mile day between towns, 90 degrees, no services all day. So I was carrying maybe 10 extra pounds of water. The load may have been higher than what the BOB was rated for. This was in south central Wyoming. I was coming down a long descent, straight, light wind, no pavement issues. I guess I picked up a little too much speed, b/c the trailer started swaying from side to side, causing a slaloming motion in the bike. This had happend before, but I had always been able to control it. This time i couldn't, maybe because of the extra weight. So the slalom got bigger and bigger, and I high-sided.

Ugh.

But, lots of people seem to like them...

Anna

Er, why would I want to tour in flat country? ;)

My trailer was loaded heavily (overloaded, maybe) because it was an 80 mile day between towns, 90 degrees, no services all day. So I was carrying maybe 10 extra pounds of water. The load may have been higher than what the BOB was rated for. This was in south central Wyoming. I was coming down a long descent, straight, light wind, no pavement issues. I guess I picked up a little too much speed, b/c the trailer started swaying from side to side, causing a slaloming motion in the bike. This had happend before, but I had always been able to control it. This time i couldn't, maybe because of the extra weight. So the slalom got bigger and bigger, and I high-sided.

Ugh.

But, lots of people seem to like them...

Anna

REally. i wonder if this would have happened with the 2 wheel trailers(which I just bought and haven't used). Charlie

Aussie campgrounds have 'real' kitchens!!
As for the roadside car rest areas. You are not to camp there BUT I've been known to drop a bag on the ground late at night. I have also been "rudely" awaken by the local police. It's tough opening your eyes and seeing really really shiny shoes (inches from my nose) telling me to move on. He left and then so did I. Moral of the story: Sleep there it if you have to. Don't put up a tent and do it in the dark. Charlie

Most bears aren't very dangerous, but they live all across the US, especially in the west and north. You've got to take some precautions like: don't put food or anything that smells good inside your tent ... cache it away from your tent; don't approach a bear; do not even entertain the thought of approaching a cub - if you see a cub, go away from it. But bears won't chase cyclists. If you ride past one (like I have a number of times in the past), it'll likely just continue on about it's business. It is when they feel threatened, or when they might be able to get a quick meal (your sandwiches, not you) that they can become a problem.

There are several sites that have information about camping in bear country (here's one (http://www.bear.org/Black/Articles/How_to_Camp_in_Black_Bear_Country.html)). Do a google search on bear country camping.

The main point is to keep a clean camp. Don't cook in the clothes you sleep in. Cook away from the tent. You will probably never see a bear (I've lived and camped in bear country all my life and have yet to see a wild bear.). If you do, consider yourself lucky.

We Americans have all kinds of other things to for you to worry about, like bad water (yucky tasting, not bad for you), winds, tornados, hail, lightning and, the worst of all, the dreaded goathead :eek: . But, hey, you want adventure don't you? ;)

Stuart Black

Thanx Scott, Your right about the Bears/Sharks thing, I am a surfer too. I don't know what a "camper shell" is? I am using a Quick-Pak trailer as you have more stowage room, easier access, less flats or "wheel fatigue", lighter handling, no balance problems, being able to quickly disengage your load for quick local trips, etc.
I have chosen a heavier larger tent for more comfort because it seems all the light single skins leak when it REALLY rains. A few extra pounds weight is not noticed. Max.

A camper shell is a hard sided box put on the back of a pickup truck. Some campsites in Yellowstone National Park require hard sided campers because of possible bear problems. Not a big deal really, just a precaution.

Stuart Black

REally. i wonder if this would have happened with the 2 wheel trailers(which I just bought and haven't used). Charlie

Yes, it can. I pulled kids in trailers for a long time and they always swayed a bit. Careful going around corners at high speeds too. Clipped a curb once and put the trailer on its side. Single wheel trailers don't do that one.

Stuart Black