General Cycling Discussion - who's packing?

I read some interesting letters in todays mailbag in velonews...
http://velonews.com/news/fea/7625.0.html
my only question is who here is packing a sidearm? I personally don't think its a good idea for many reasons...but I'm a lover not a fighter...

i just read that yesterday.
strangely enough, i have carried a p22(LR) in my camelbak before. i used to do that when riding in the middle of nowhere. you just never know. this is in california, mind you, so it is illegal as all hell, but what really are the chances of being caught?

Never on my bike.

Siempre.

BR

Already discussed at length here (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=87967&highlight=carry+gun).


As for me and the issue carrying a gun, no thanks, especially not on a bike.

why carry a gun when you can carry this: http://www.surroscape.com/img/bazooka.jpg hehehehe




no i will never carry when riding. I have no clue who is in that pic got it from google.

In NC you can get a concealed carry permit. The only time I ever worry about it is in my company owned vehicle. I love my .40 caliber Glock- I try not to ever leave home without it.

does anyone carry something like mace or pepper spray for dogs or anything like that?

As soon as they come out with the carbon fiber gun for cyclists....

I dont understand why on earth people would want to carry a gun on their bikes. Its extra weight anyways. I carry my pocket knife if that counts, but i bring that everywhere except school.

This is a repeat thread of "do you carry a gun"

yes....yes it is :D

This is a repeat thread of "do you carry a gun"
is that bad?

yes....yes it is :D

I didn't carry a gun in the other thread either :D

I read some interesting letters in todays mailbag in velonews...
http://velonews.com/news/fea/7625.0.html
my only question is who here is packing a sidearm? I personally don't think its a good idea for many reasons...but I'm a lover not a fighter...
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=87967

How are you going to ride a bike in the prison courtyard?

:lol:

In the Ozarks you have really two villians - dogs and mullets. Halt usually works for the dogs, but shampoo in a squeeze bottle does not always work for the mullets. :D

I don't carry a gun in my car either because I could never afford all the ammo I would be want to use. :D

Besides, it would take forever to get it out of the Camelback. I say beat them with the bike pump!

I don't want to start up this debate again, cuz everyone on both sides starts acting like babies in no time at all,(yes, that means YOU.) I'll just say my piece about why I carried at one time, and be done with it, if it makes me a nutcase barbarian, so be it. I used to live in quite a drug addled, run down neighborhood, and had a handgun for home protection, since there were a lot of break-ins, (including ones where people were at home.) I carried it in my backpack on the commute to work, not only for the protection factor, but because I did not want to leave my $1000 handgun in my easily burgled apartment. I never had occasion to use it, but I never opened my beers with it, either. If put in a situation were I had to use it, I would have, without remorse. I believe people have the right to defend themselves, if you think I'm a horrible person, that's your right.
Now I carry pepper spray, because I feel that in my current living situation, a gun is overkill in all but the most spectacular circumstances, and I have a secure place to keep it when I'm gone. But that's the thing, SITUATION. Not everyone's circumstances are the same, and there's always the issue of surrendering one's already limited amount of autonomy to the government. If you want to paint pictures of those of us who carry as dangerous neanderthals who'll shoot anything that moves, or goofy guys decked out like George Hincapie with a rifle slung across their back, strawman us all you like, I've said all I feel like I need to say.

In Canada you dont need to carry a gun. ;)

I carry one for a living, when I am riding or running I never do. I see no reason at this point.

so your a cop?

In Canada you dont need to carry a gun. ;)

Thats always been my stance. I could care less about being allowed (if I felt the NEED I would likely find a way and wouldn't have issues) but I sure am glad I have never felt that need.

Thats always been my stance. I could care less about being allowed (if I felt the NEED I would likely find a way and wouldn't have issues) but I sure am glad I have never felt that need.

And you can't carry even if you wanted to :)

In the Ozarks you have really two villians - dogs and mullets. Halt usually works for the dogs, but shampoo in a squeeze bottle does not always work for the mullets. :D

hehe!
:p

so your a cop?


Yes.

And you can't carry even if you wanted to :)

Yes you can. You can in fact get a carry permit. You just need to prove you are either an officer of some kind of prove you are in danger of being killed. :) (there have been 50 approved ;))

Heh. There are people who carry guns...I know a few, it's not abnormal.

Yes.

cool!

Yes.


OH and stay away from anything about a critical mass, They will gang up on you :D

Heh. There are people who carry guns...I know a few, it's not abnormal.


it's damn scary is waht it is. waht if i wanna cuss at them and such... i can't do that if they have a gun... it's very wrong... wrong wrong wrong.

You know what I'm packing????? A Specialized Dolce Elite. :D

Yes you can. You can in fact get a carry permit. You just need to prove you are either an officer of some kind of prove you are in danger of being killed. :) (there have been 50 approved ;))

Haha, that's excellent! Where do I sign up? :) :) But come on just carrying isn't enough, if you want to be 1337 you need a concealed handgun license (CHL). Now about that ak-47 I wanted to conceal under my jersey...

Heh. There are people who carry guns...I know a few, it's not abnormal.

Yeah me too, cops... some soldiers maybe? Remember we're in CANADA. Someone could walk in with a water gun and hold up a bank.

Seems kind of useless to carry a gun to me. If someone is going to mug you, chances are they will have a gun to do so. Then they are just going to take your gun along with anything else they want.
Or if someone is harassing you with a vehicle, then running over you is going to be as powerful as any 44 mag you might be packing. Unless you carry your gun in a quick draw holster its probably going to be too late.
To live in fear is the worse kind of fear.

Ok. Now a different question.

Why do many people seem to find ways to avoid the "g" word?
This thread is called "Who's packing?", there was sometime ago another thread where "Do you carry?", and I have seen quite a few like this where one needs to read about 2 pages of pros and cons before knowing that people talk about guns rather than panniers, water bottles or something else.

At least the thread "Do you carry a gun?" is clear.

As much as I don't like guns, I hate even more when people want to find ways to discuss the issue while trying to find ways not to talk about it at the same time.

Guns are designed to maim and kill. How many people truly need to protect them selves from wild animals, where the problem would be how fast you could reach your gun and then use it.

Other than that, if you carry a gun, on a bike, car or anywhere else, it means you have an intent, under certian circumstances to maim or kill another human. So a debat about wether to carry a gun for protection is really a debate about weather you think it appropriate to maim or kill another person.

Puts you in the position jury, judge and executioner. If you live in a society where this is acceptable and legal to be in this position I suggest you give up cycling and throw your energy into changing your society such that everyone beleives this is an unacceptable option. One should ask, how come it is possible for a signicant portion of the world to not have to live this way.

I lived in America. It is not nessecary to carry a gun. The only people I worried about where those people who somehow arrived at the position that they thought they should.

Finally on a site dedicated to cycling I wonder why people keep raising the issues of whether it is acceptable to maim or kill other humans? Maybe a thread answering this question would be more illuminating.

My 2 cents

How many people truly need to protect them selves from wild animals....<snip>

<snip>....Other than that, if you carry a gun, on a bike, car or anywhere else, it means you have an intent, under certian circumstances to maim or kill another human.

<snip>I lived in America. It is not nessecary to carry a gun. The only people I worried about where those people who somehow arrived at the position that they thought they should.

Finally on a site dedicated to cycling I wonder why people keep raising the issues of whether it is acceptable to maim or kill other humans? Maybe a thread answering this question would be more illuminating.


I'll respond to these statements. I'm not one to cary my own soapbox, and I'm not going to pretend to be a shiny faced mountebank, but some deeper thought really should have been given here.

*How many people truly need to protect them selves from wild animals.
I grew up in eastern Kentucky, far eastern Kentucky. You know the place portrayed on TV and in all those hillbilly jokes about outhouses, marriage to your cousins, etc? That is where I grew up, and please, no incest jokes, I don't have an uncle dad ;) Protecting yourself from wild animals was a day to day occurance there and my brothers and I were taught to use/respect/fear guns at an early age, before most people even started school. Mountain lions, bobcats, bears, wild dogs, etc were always coming onto the farm and attacking the livestock, pets, and people. My baby brother is missing an eye because of a bobcat attack and if my father had not had a 45 in his pocket my mother would have been killed by a bear while slopping the pigs one morning. I could probably give you 100 examples of this sort of thing happing when I was a child.

*Other than that, if you carry a gun, on a bike, car or anywhere else, it means you have an intent, under certian circumstances to maim or kill another human.
This is a misleadingly incorrect statement, under certain circumstances having a bicycle lock could also mean you have the intent to harm another person is you plan on bashing it against their skull 4 to 5 times. To posess a firearm does not give you intent to harm another human, read my previous statement. But by law here in america, a person has the right under that law to kill another person in order to protect themselves or someone else from being killed, raped, or sodomized.

*I lived in America. It is not nessecary to carry a gun. The only people I worried about where those people who somehow arrived at the position that they thought they should.
Maybe in the area you lived in it was not necessary, but please don't assume that in a country as large as ours that EVERY area is the same. Look at where I grew up. It was not just necessary but imperative that you cary a firearm.

*Finally on a site dedicated to cycling I wonder why people keep raising the issues of whether it is acceptable to maim or kill other humans? Maybe a thread answering this question would be more illuminating.
I don't feel that this is what people are trying to examine when they start a thread such as this one. When I see a thread such as this I am thinking more about a persons right to protect himself, not just to blatently go out and cause mallice.

I'm not trying to make an enemy with you here, I'm just hoping that maybe you'll examine your post a little more clearly and see where I am coming from on this. The way I feel is as follows:
If a person feels that he/she must cary a gun to protect themselves then they have that right under the law governing our country. Do I think that the said person should is another question. But when I think about the situations that some bikers can get into it does make me contemplate. If a 110lb woman is riding casually down a bike path and a 250 lb man steps out in from of her, stops her, and proceedes to **** her. What defense can she possibly have against him? A firearm would make her more powerful than him and give her the ability to protect herself. Let's face it, pepper spray and mace are not all they are cracked up to be. I've been hit with the consumer types of both of these products and they did not incompacitate me (I led a very interesting adolescence).
Personally, I cary a firearm on my person at all times. I have NEVER had to use it, even when I was being assaulted outside of a pub 2 years ago. At that time I did not feel my life was in danger. I hope to god that I never do have to unholster my firearm to protect myself or another, but I am prepared to do so if the circumstances warrant it. I do not WANT to kill anyone, and will avoid putting myself in a situation where I might. But if I pull my gun it will be the last action I make in a defensive posture, as I will surely use it.

I'll stop my post here. I don't want to get into a debate over assault weapons, the constitution, or how well/poorly other countries are concerning crime rates and their gun laws - I do not live in those countries.
I hope I have not offended anyone here, that was not my intent, but on both threads concerning this issue, the question was asked "do you cary a gun" and barely anyone answered that question, instead they went of on a tangent about gun rights, ignorance, and wot-not and I was just feeling left out ;)

Why do many people seem to find ways to avoid the "g" word?

this is my weapon
this is my gun
one is for killing
the other is for fun :D

Ok. Interesting comments. I had thought out this position quite a lot and I am still not sure a gun debt is right for a cycle web site but here goes.

I agreed about the wild animals but wondered how effective a concealed gun would be in the case of an animal attack. I understand there are areas of America that are wilderness, have been there and had a better appreciation why someone might carry a gun in those circumstance. I have to say I never did in all the wilderness trekking I did and never felt I had to.

As I said, in all other circumstances such as these the piont of carry a gun is to maim or kill a person. Yes a lock can be used as a weapon, but it's primary purpose is to lock the bike up with. The primary purpose of a gun is to maim or kill. Thats a big difference.

I've cycled in may parts of America, all the way through central and some of South america, so I am aware of the diversity of the country and the danger that exists in some parts of the USA.

The example of the woman on a bike being raped. Yep that is tricky. But again what other practical advice can we give people on how to avoid this situation without resorting to firearms. How often does this senario happen, how can cycle lanes/trails be designed to minimise this posibility.

Your point that the posting about do you carry a gun on a bike is really about how to protect yourself on a bike. It's interesting this thread is never presented in that manner. Now that would be an interesting debate. What are the threats that bikers face, how likely are they and what are methodes, preferably not including maiming or killing someone, that a biker can take.

PS no offence taken PJ

PS no offence taken PJ

Hey no offence taken. I'm glad to see a civil response and welcome it. Reading you post made me ponder, maybe a thread should be started, maybe in the Advocacy & Safety section about protection and defensive cycling, and by defensive cycling I don't mean yielding to autos and wot-not, but... for instance, when riding at night keeping your cell phone VERY handy will 911 preset to dial, or for women riding in unfamiliar areas to take along a ride partner or something. Hope I don't piss of any ladies here as I've seen some I KNOW could handle themselves in a fight ;)
I think that it would be a rather productive thread.
As you mentioned "...without resorting to firearms", I wholly agree with you. I'd rather take a good ass whipping than pull my gun. And if someone wants to take my bike from me, hey, he can have it. It's not worth killing someone over a Trek 7100. Only if my life or someone elses is in immediate danger would I ever resort to using it. I do consider myself a responsible gun owner.
You really should read the thread on this in the Commuters section, it's sometimes funny, but everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if I don't agree with it.

My 2 cents


I'll respond to these statements. I'm not one to cary my own soapbox, and I'm not going to pretend to be a shiny faced mountebank, but some deeper thought really should have been given here.

*How many people truly need to protect them selves from wild animals.
I grew up in eastern Kentucky, far eastern Kentucky. You know the place portrayed on TV and in all those hillbilly jokes about outhouses, marriage to your cousins, etc? That is where I grew up, and please, no incest jokes, I don't have an uncle dad ;) Protecting yourself from wild animals was a day to day occurance there and my brothers and I were taught to use/respect/fear guns at an early age, before most people even started school. Mountain lions, bobcats, bears, wild dogs, etc were always coming onto the farm and attacking the livestock, pets, and people. My baby brother is missing an eye because of a bobcat attack and if my father had not had a 45 in his pocket my mother would have been killed by a bear while slopping the pigs one morning. I could probably give you 100 examples of this sort of thing happing when I was a child.

*Other than that, if you carry a gun, on a bike, car or anywhere else, it means you have an intent, under certian circumstances to maim or kill another human.
This is a misleadingly incorrect statement, under certain circumstances having a bicycle lock could also mean you have the intent to harm another person is you plan on bashing it against their skull 4 to 5 times. To posess a firearm does not give you intent to harm another human, read my previous statement. But by law here in america, a person has the right under that law to kill another person in order to protect themselves or someone else from being killed, raped, or sodomized.

*I lived in America. It is not nessecary to carry a gun. The only people I worried about where those people who somehow arrived at the position that they thought they should.
Maybe in the area you lived in it was not necessary, but please don't assume that in a country as large as ours that EVERY area is the same. Look at where I grew up. It was not just necessary but imperative that you cary a firearm.

*Finally on a site dedicated to cycling I wonder why people keep raising the issues of whether it is acceptable to maim or kill other humans? Maybe a thread answering this question would be more illuminating.
I don't feel that this is what people are trying to examine when they start a thread such as this one. When I see a thread such as this I am thinking more about a persons right to protect himself, not just to blatently go out and cause mallice.

I'm not trying to make an enemy with you here, I'm just hoping that maybe you'll examine your post a little more clearly and see where I am coming from on this. The way I feel is as follows:
If a person feels that he/she must cary a gun to protect themselves then they have that right under the law governing our country. Do I think that the said person should is another question. But when I think about the situations that some bikers can get into it does make me contemplate. If a 110lb woman is riding casually down a bike path and a 250 lb man steps out in from of her, stops her, and proceedes to **** her. What defense can she possibly have against him? A firearm would make her more powerful than him and give her the ability to protect herself. Let's face it, pepper spray and mace are not all they are cracked up to be. I've been hit with the consumer types of both of these products and they did not incompacitate me (I led a very interesting adolescence).
Personally, I cary a firearm on my person at all times. I have NEVER had to use it, even when I was being assaulted outside of a pub 2 years ago. At that time I did not feel my life was in danger. I hope to god that I never do have to unholster my firearm to protect myself or another, but I am prepared to do so if the circumstances warrant it. I do not WANT to kill anyone, and will avoid putting myself in a situation where I might. But if I pull my gun it will be the last action I make in a defensive posture, as I will surely use it.

I'll stop my post here. I don't want to get into a debate over assault weapons, the constitution, or how well/poorly other countries are concerning crime rates and their gun laws - I do not live in those countries.
I hope I have not offended anyone here, that was not my intent, but on both threads concerning this issue, the question was asked "do you cary a gun" and barely anyone answered that question, instead they went of on a tangent about gun rights, ignorance, and wot-not and I was just feeling left out ;)

Good post, and welcome to the forums. I don't always agree but well worded response :)

And thank you for avoiding the constition debate, this thread would have to be moved to the political forum in that case :)

I carry a little pocket knife EVERYWHERE. It's really handy, but it has to be the least menacing weapon ever. If I feel scared or want a knife for protection I have a pretty scary ass looking butterfly knife. So far I've only succeeded in hurting myself with that one.

No guns or anything, if I'm in danger I'll either try and ride away from it or stand there and duke it out with my fists.

If someone is gonna kill you while you're riding your bike, they're not going to say, "Hey you, stop your bike so I can point a gun at you and give you a chance to pull out your piece and shoot me first!"

They're going to shoot you, or hit you from from behind. So what's the point of packin?

I live in a ghetto neighborhood and everyone minds their own business.

"the bad guy will probably also have a gun and therefore you having a gun is pointless"
that seems to be a common argument here.

so that's a zero sum game; i still lose nothing by carring a gun. cept for the money i spent on practice ammo and my concealed carry permit. what about all the other times when the bad guy has a pipe, baseball bat, machete, or when the bad guy misses or hits me in the arm or leg? i would agree that, for most people, a handgun wont come in handy. similar to a carbon fiber bottle cage. but i cant imagine a scenario in which i might say to myself, "man if i had only had a CF cage instead of this stainless steel one, i'd be alive right now."

The only thing I pack is my lunch.

Here's another previous thread on the subject:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=43841

If I told you, I would have to shoot you ROLF