Road Cycling - Compact vs traditional frames ???

Hi guys, I was wondering what people think about compact frames. I have heard a lot about the benefits, but are they the way of the future for road bikes? Or will the traditional style frame remain?????

Cheers
Caius

Tis subject just keeps coming up. For some reason, it excites great passions. I'm going to stay out of it, except to say that it has been discussed before in this thread, (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7692) among others, and to observe that compact frames only seem to appear in the pro peloton (a) when the bike supplier's signature style is a compact frame [like ONCE's Giants] or (b) when they are provided to smaller riders as an option by the bike supplier.

Thanks for the input. It is hard when you go to a bike shop and you are unsure whether what they are telling you is the truth or whether it is sales talk. For example the guy in the shop which sells compact bikes told me that compact frames would dominate the market in a couple of years. Then in another shop (supplying Trek bikes) I was told that compact frames just looked bad and that they were just used by makers who wanted to use cheaper aluminium.

Confused?????

It is hard when you are a beginner not wanting to get led down the garden path, so to speak.

Cheers

Compact frames benifit only the manufacturer. It it their way of getting off cheap while pretending they have made an important breakthru. In other words, it's all marketing bullshít.

Cycletourist,

while I have no intention of getting into
the whole compact vs. traditional geometry
issue, there are reasons to buy a compact
frame. A small rider would benefit from the
lower standover height, and still have somewhat
normal front end.
No, its not all just bull**** and hype, although
much of what is foisted on us is.

Marty

Hey
how come cycletourist gets to use the word "bull****"
and my post gets censored?

Marty

I would tell how I did it but then I'd have to kill you :-)

I thought the main advantages of compacts were weight and handling.

I WAS going to get a 2002 K2 MOD 4.0 through an employee incentive program, but they ran out of stock on the large frames. I was a bit disappointed to say the least. I then decided on a Trek 2300, which I'm paying retail for (our shop doesn't sell Trek). I took it for a long ride before committing. The K2 had a softer ride due to the carbon seat stay but didn't seem to be as responsive as the Trek. Also the K2 is about half a pound lighter, but didn't seem to accelerate any quicker. Overall, I like the ride of the Trek better. It’s not as forgiving, but feels solid and very responsive…especially cornering.

Most of the shop sales personnel said compacts have their place in the market and are here to stay....but will not take the place of traditional geometry bikes. I tend to agree.

The original concept of compact frames was developed by Mike Burrows (designer of the Lotus bike) for Giant. It really isnt marketing hype, but an attempt to provide a wider range of fit using fewer frame sizes and a series of seatposts and adjustable stems.
There are pros and cons to the concept. The frames are a bit stiffer and lighter and weight less. You get more standover clearance with a higher headtube (unlike low-profile time trial bikes).
The idea that compact frames are better for smaller riders is a misunderstanding. A small rider may have standover clearance on a medium "compact" frame, but the frame would be too long.
A small rider would find that a small compact or conventional frame would fit the same, but with more standover clearance on the compact frame. Other differences such as tight wheel clearance or short chainstays are independant of the "compact" design.

Michael,

I am not implying that a compact frame will better
fit a smaller rider, just that the sloping top tube
will allow for the higher head tube. However
the sloping top tube also necessitates a longer
seatpost as compared with traditional frame.
There is some good information here (http://spectrum-cycles.com/616.htm) (Spectrum cycles)
on geometries.

Marty

Originally posted by cycletourist
I would tell how I did it but then I'd have to kill you :-)
So cycltourist, your also with the G14 classified thing if I tell you, I have to kill you, I think I have read that being posted by fubar5, anywayz I haven't seen Fubar for quite sometime now,Fubar5,, bud where are you

When I test rode many road bikes earlier in the year of all the makes and geometry.
For some reason , maybe it was my imagination!, but compact framed cycles seemed to be harsher rides than traditional framed bikes , as i say don`t know if the sloping top tube was inclined to be transmitting more of the road surface vibration through the frame , but suffice to say i bought a traditional frameset.

bringing threads back from the dead...

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but there is an interesting article in this month's Bicycling about compact frames.

Dax

I read that same article. Very informative... and it confirmed what I wrote earlier in this thread, "Compact frames are just marketing hype."

heheh bullshít is easy enough lol.

Compact frames in action:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2002/jul02/tdf/?id=stage09/FSoncewarmup

My input on the subject:

Which would you rather have:
A frame with only 3 sizes to choose from and make the adjustmens through seatposts and stem length adjustments?
---or----
A frame with 10 sizes all in 2 cm increments to narrow down your proper frame size, and FINE tune using seatpost/stem adjustments.


A compact frame that claims to be stronger due to the smaller tube lengths and stick a seatpost in it that must be 8" up to get proper fit. That seatpost must flex all over the place sticking up that far.
---or---
A traditional frame that is sized correctly and has minimal length of seatpost exposed.


BTW, do you think ANY of the Pro's in the Peloton have frames available to them in only 3 sizes and must adjust fit by swapping stems and seatpost height or do you think they're all custom made? Just a thought!

Granted, the Pro's bikes ARE custom and a traditional frame is not the same, but I'd rather have a 2 cm increment rather than S,M or L.

Can you guess, I'm NOT sold on the Compact frame idea?

L8R

Specialized, Look, Merlin and others come in a range of sizes. up to 12 different sizes. If the 3 size system of Giant and others doesn't fit you- its simple- DONT BUY IT! Jeez, not everyone fits every bike! I've ridden bikes that offer 12 sizes that didn't fit me right.

A longer seatpost doesnt mean it's going to "flex all over the place". That is total b.s. You take a 410mm Thompson post and try to flex it any more than a 200mm post. Go ahead. the difference is so minimal it is ridiculous. YOu may notice some flex (that doesnt affect performance) if you set up like Igor Gonzalez deGaldeano with the small frame and HUGE seatpost- but it's funny how he doesn't seem to mind, huh?

As for the pros, many of them do ride custom built frames--compact or regular-- but there are alot of domestiques that make due with off-the-shelf frames due to budget.
Superstar Andre Tchmil won his last race on the Litespeed Ghisallo--compact, off-the-shelf Titanium 53cm frame. The "stars" will always get custom but alot of guys ride stock. Besides that, many U.S. racers have used and won on Giant TCR's or other compact frames and they all use off-the shelf bikes.

Honestly, compacts can be great bikes. whether you see the merits or not doesn't say much because it's obvious detractors haven't spent any real time riding one.

Funny...Specialized, at least in my miniscule budget, only come in the sloped top tube, or compact, frame. They do have the multiple sizes, too. I have test driven The Allez A1, Allez A1 Sport and the Trek 1000. The best, especially on the bumpy pot holed lot of the LBS, was the A1 Sport, probably because of the carbon fork.

However, even at my 6'2" frame, I found the 58cm A1's gave me a better standover height while also providing the length I needed for my body type. The Trek top tube was a little to tight to the family jewels, so I liked the slope of the compact frame of Specialized.

In my newbie opinion, forget the hype and BS on both sides and just find a bike that fits. I just want a comfortable bike at the best $$$, so I am going to buy the A1 Sport, compact frame and all...:cool:

i can see the compact craze kicking in and taking hold. less material means a lighter bike, although i like the analysis in recent mag's saying that the weight savings is negated by the taller seatpost needed, thereby making the weights of similar materials about the exact same.
it does look sleeker.

as far as handling ---> i guess it is subjective

Call me a retrogrouch but those compact frames look like hard-tail mountain bikes re-packaged as road bikes. They just don't look like real road bikes to me!

Originally posted by SteveE
Call me a retrogrouch but those compact frames look like hard-tail mountain bikes re-packaged as road bikes. They just don't look like real road bikes to me!
You're a retrogrouch :lol:

me too,
Marty