General Cycling Discussion - Trainers suck - I'm glad I'm a Florida boy!

I recently purchased a new Cyclops Fluid 2 trainer mainly for use as a warm-up medium at races, and give me a way to train on impossible days - like a hurricane coming through town. I was under the mistaken impression that there was some corelation between one of these things and the real world, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. Today was my first time using the unit.

I set everything per instructions, and used a block on the front to level my bike. I found that the speed per effort is not even close. For example, I spin very comfortably at 20 mph. That was my top speed with lots of lactic acid build up to achieve it. At cruising speeds, I would say that the trainer gives a speed of 3-4 mph less than the real world for the same effort, and at the same time causes a quicker and greater buildup of lactic acid. I tried a very hard effort for 8 minutes, and although lactic acid built up much, much more quickly and to a far greater extent than the real world, my aerobic system was loafing along averaging only 118 bpm for a hard 8 minute effort. Also, where I can easily cover 5K in 8 minutes, I had covered less than 2 miles in 8 minutes.

I carefully readjusted everything, and experimented with different tire tension, but the results were basically the same for any tension that did not cause wheel slippage.

I must say, I did not particularly like the feel of the unit, and certainly find that it anything but replicates a real world experience. Having said all that, I guess it is okay for you boys up North in the winter, but I think I would much rather have a spinning bike than a trainer. Unfortunately, I have a new dust catcher.

Maybe try rollers?

I live with the trainer cause I have to...but I really hate it.

I tried a treadmill once. Ewww.

Maybe try rollers?

Rollers are probably much more realistic, but I would probably fall on my clumsy butt!

I tried a treadmill once. Ewww.

Yeah, I have an expensive True treadmill, and it winds up being used by the women I date rather than me.

Trainers aren't for replicating same speed for same effort as on the road.

They are for doing very[B]specific training sessions, preferably using HRM. There are no distractions, no variations in gradient or wind direction, etc.,so you can carry out planned periods of time at planned levels of effort for planned outcomes.

For example, it is extremely difficult to do lactate tolerance intervals on the road, or anaerobic intervals with consistent recovery periods while mixing with traffic. The speed your computer shows is irrelevant.

If you have one which shows power output (watts) which can be correlated to your heart rate, so much the better, as you can track changes in your cardiovascular efficiency (up or down).

Can I suggest you get a good book on the subject, dust off the trainer, get a pedestal fan of at least 16" dia and reach a whole new level of fitness more quickly than solely thro' road riding.

Yeah, trainers are kind of boring. Almost as bad as riding in Florida!!

:eek:

:D

just teasing.

I recently purchased a new Cyclops Fluid 2 trainer mainly for use as a warm-up medium at races, and give me a way to train on impossible days - like a hurricane coming through town. I was under the mistaken impression that there was some corelation between one of these things and the real world, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. Today was my first time using the unit.

I set everything per instructions, and used a block on the front to level my bike. I found that the speed per effort is not even close. For example, I spin very comfortably at 20 mph. That was my top speed with lots of lactic acid build up to achieve it. At cruising speeds, I would say that the trainer gives a speed of 3-4 mph less than the real world for the same effort, and at the same time causes a quicker and greater buildup of lactic acid. I tried a very hard effort for 8 minutes, and although lactic acid built up much, much more quickly and to a far greater extent than the real world, my aerobic system was loafing along averaging only 118 bpm for a hard 8 minute effort. Also, where I can easily cover 5K in 8 minutes, I had covered less than 2 miles in 8 minutes.

I carefully readjusted everything, and experimented with different tire tension, but the results were basically the same for any tension that did not cause wheel slippage.

I must say, I did not particularly like the feel of the unit, and certainly find that it anything but replicates a real world experience. Having said all that, I guess it is okay for you boys up North in the winter, but I think I would much rather have a spinning bike than a trainer. Unfortunately, I have a new dust catcher.Sorry to hear you don't care for it. The good news is you're in an area of the country where you don't need to use one like the rest of us poor slobs.

I agree with atbman in that trainers serve a specific purpose and are best used with an HRM or better yet a power meter. When you need to do an interval session and you don't want to screw with variables such as cars, stop signs, wind, rain, hills, or any other distractions, trainers are the answer. In fact for interval training I'd have to say they are superior for just such reasons. The conditions on a trainer will always be consistent. It's like having your own personal indoor velodrome.

Provided your assessment of losing 3 - 4 MPH on the trainer vs. actual road riding for the same level of effort is accurate, then that's the best damned news I've heard in weeks! The reason is I'm finally starting to see some speed increases.

Would you say that 17 MPH for an hour on the trainer is about the same as 20 MPH in real world conditions?

Not all trainers suck. The tacx I-magic is a blast to ride and train on. I race other riders from all over the world all winter long. The computrainer also has competitions . The virtual reality trainers are pretty nice and you don't lose motivation.

http://www.tacx.nl/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=622

Wonder if the cost of trainers are worth it...USUALLY it rains like 10-15 days a year..Not this year..So trainers could be useful, this year......We are fair weather riders out here, since we have lots and lots of fair weather...And we do not usually need it in August either, to escape from the heat ..Since most of us live on the coast..

OK here is the corlation... just checked it out today...

I have a blackburn fluid trainer... it is harder than road. I needed to do a LT ITT sesson to find my Lactic Acid threshold rate... (lactic treshold individual time trial). After warming up I ran a 30 minute simulated time trial, 30 minutes at LT threshold (just going anaerobic) at 100 RPMs in a 39-15. Obviously I can go much faster on the road with the same percieved effort. My comp was saying 20.5 MPH, on the road that translates to 24 - 25 MPH solo effort. Your 4 MPH difference is right.

I do all my LT and anaerobic intervals (other than sprints) on the trainer... they are much easier to do then to try to do them on the road. The trainer is not... repeat... NOT for aroebic work... it gets boring for over about 15 minutes. If I want arobic work I go on a 3 - 4 hour 60 - 80 mile ride. For its specific puspose I use the trainer.

BTW if I can sprint at 30 MPH in a 53-12 at 100 RPMs on the trainer then 35 MPH at max effort on the road is possible... I really like that sound!

I live in California and I do use the trainer 2 to sometime 3 times per week... I ride outside 3 and sometimes 4 days (up to 6 some weeks) outside, the other days it is intervals inside... BTW my LT rate is 166 BPM, my max HR is 195 BPM, sprinting I reach 184 - 186 BPM... never could easily found this out on the road...

Trainers have their place

Not all trainers suck. The tacx I-magic is a blast to ride and train on. I race other riders from all over the world all winter long. The computrainer also has competitions . The virtual reality trainers are pretty nice and you don't lose motivation.

http://www.tacx.nl/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=622 Don't misunderstand skydive69's post about the cycle ops 2 trainer, he is not saying that brand of trainer sucks just he doesn't like any trainer (I think). The ops 2 is a great trainer, some people just do not like the experience, for me it is a great time to listen to music. Being out of shape in the spring is the thing I would not be able to deal with, ride all summer just to throw away the fittness level over the winter plus the weight gain-I think not. I do live in Iowa so I have to like it. :D

Don't misunderstand skydive69's post about the cycle ops 2 trainer, he is not saying that brand of trainer sucks just he doesn't like any trainer (I think). The ops 2 is a great trainer, some people just do not like the experience, for me it is a great time to listen to music. Being out of shape in the spring is the thing I would not be able to deal with, ride all summer just to throw away the fittness level over the winter plus the weight gain-I think not. I do live in Iowa so I have to like it. :D

Yes, good point. I am not bad mouthing the Cycleops trainer - I just had false expectations. Actually, I was excited as I got it set up, because I am entered in two time trials two weeks from tomorrow, and I thought it would be interesting to see how fast I could cover the distance on the trainer. It was disappointing to discover that I could not do that, because of the much slower speed I achieved.

I also now agree with the point made by one of the posters that the forte of a trainer is probably anerobic type training.

I am, however, still a bit confused by two things:

I was amazed at how quickly lactic acid formed in my legs on the trainer. I normally do lots of hard pulls on club rides, and I pull for a long time before lactic acid becomes an issue. I was also amazed that even though I was doing a very hard effort, I averaged only 118 HR whereas on a club ride I usually average in the 130's (we ride hard and fast). It is difficult to concilliate lots of lactic acid with lesser HR. Perhaps the lactic acid was such a limiting factor, that my cardio vascular system was not able to reach its normal zone.

I bought a trainer this last Fall. Thankfully, i bought a cheaper $125 rim drive unit from Nashbar. Even though i only spent $125, i still spent too much. I agree.........trainers SUCK! I am one of those crazy winter cyclists and rode out in a miriad of conditions the last couple of winters. I probably used the trainer 6 times this winter.

The rest of the time i rode outside. (nearly every day) I found that the studded tires for snow and ice were a much better investment. They allowed me to ride many days, when i otherwise would have been stuck inside on the trainer. I guess a silver lining to the trainer sucks cloud is that it is great for diagnosing noise problems under load.

OK here is the corlation... just checked it out today...

I have a blackburn fluid trainer... it is harder than road. I needed to do a LT ITT sesson to find my Lactic Acid threshold rate... (lactic treshold individual time trial). After warming up I ran a 30 minute simulated time trial, 30 minutes at LT threshold (just going anaerobic) at 100 RPMs in a 39-15. Obviously I can go much faster on the road with the same percieved effort. My comp was saying 20.5 MPH, on the road that translates to 24 - 25 MPH solo effort. Your 4 MPH difference is right.

I do all my LT and anaerobic intervals (other than sprints) on the trainer... they are much easier to do then to try to do them on the road. The trainer is not... repeat... NOT for aroebic work... it gets boring for over about 15 minutes. If I want arobic work I go on a 3 - 4 hour 60 - 80 mile ride. For its specific puspose I use the trainer.

BTW if I can sprint at 30 MPH in a 53-12 at 100 RPMs on the trainer then 35 MPH at max effort on the road is possible... I really like that sound!

I live in California and I do use the trainer 2 to sometime 3 times per week... I ride outside 3 and sometimes 4 days (up to 6 some weeks) outside, the other days it is intervals inside... BTW my LT rate is 166 BPM, my max HR is 195 BPM, sprinting I reach 184 - 186 BPM... never could easily found this out on the road...

Trainers have their placeSo chances are, if I can ride at an average of 16.1 MPH for an hour on a CycleOps Fluid 2 then I can do 19 - 20 MPH for an hour on the road. That is good news. At least for me.

I'm actually going to attempt a century on the trainer :eek: around the first couple of weeks in May. Hope to do it in about 7 hours sans rest room breaks. So far my weekly long rides have been 3 hours before my rear gives out. Just bought a new SI TransAm Prolink saddle so I'm hoping that helps. Should arrive next week.

Once I do that I'm going to wait a couple weeks then do another century outdoors on a closed loop (no stops, very few cars) and see how they compare.

So chances are, if I can ride at an average of 16.1 MPH for an hour on a CycleOps Fluid 2 then I can do 19 - 20 MPH for an hour on the road. That is good news. At least for me.

I'm actually going to attempt a century on the trainer :eek: around the first couple of weeks in May. Hope to do it in about 7 hours sans rest room breaks. So far my weekly long rides have been 3 hours before my rear gives out. Just bought a new SI TransAm Prolink saddle so I'm hoping that helps. Should arrive next week.

Once I do that I'm going to wait a couple weeks then do another century outdoors on a closed loop (no stops, very few cars) and see how they compare. Call me crazy but that sounds kind of neat, good luck to you.

I did a little research today on fluid trainers and power curves. Every unit is different, some units like my blackburn unit spike the resistance level at some speed range instead of being smooth. Point being trainers are adjusted so that they will have the right resistance for a individuals (kurts is 165 pounds I believe at a 1% incline) so if you are not that weight you will not get perfect resistance. Some fluid trainers are adjustable to fix that.

The power input is something like a cube function so it gets harder much faster at higher levels of internsity. That explains why I can spin all day in a say 39-21 at 12 MPH vs a 53-17 at 20 MPH, the trainer develops way to much resistance at the high end (expodential increase) so going from 20 - 21 MPH is much harder than it is on the road.

The 3 - 4 MPH figure is based on speed only, if you can spin at 12 MPH on a trainer it does not necessarly mean that you can do 16 MPH on the road but if you are spining at 20 MPH it is more likely that you can maintain 23 - 24 MPH solo... just the way it works.

Basically use the trainer for HR or power specific workouts... if you want the real thing get out on the road. Trainers have their place :rolleyes:

... The 3 - 4 MPH figure is based on speed only, if you can spin at 12 MPH on a trainer it does not necessarly mean that you can do 16 MPH on the road but if you are spining at 20 MPH it is more likely that you can maintain 23 - 24 MPH solo... just the way it works ...Well there goes my confidence. I can sustain about 16.1 MPH for an hour with an average HR between 77% to 79% of my MaxHR. Also recently did 17.4 MPH average for 1/2 hour with an AvgHR of 81.7%. I know these values suck but I was hoping that they would translate into something half way decent on the road.

Well there goes my confidence. I can sustain about 16.1 MPH for an hour with an average HR between 77% to 79% of my MaxHR. Also recently did 17.4 MPH average for 1/2 hour with an AvgHR of 81.7%. I know these values suck but I was hoping that they would translate into something half way decent on the road.

They probably will. I hit 36.2 mph on the flats the other day, and I pumped my butt off to hit a top speed of 20 on my hour workout on the trainer. I warm-up at over 20 (very comfortably) on the road for my club rides. The figures you gave were certainly more than I could do on my trainer.

They probably will. I hit 36.2 mph on the flats the other day, and I pumped my butt off to hit a top speed of 20 on my hour workout on the trainer. I warm-up at over 20 (very comfortably) on the road for my club rides. The figures you gave were certainly more than I could do on my trainer.Well that's good to hear. My goal this year is to make improvements in my 50-mile time. Last September my best was 16.9 MPH average with no breaks. I stopped once at my car to grab an extra bottle of gatorade but kept the computer going. And I r-e-a-l-l-y had to pee :o but managed to wait until the end of the ride.

If I can get that 50-mile speed anywhere close to 20 MPH (or 2 1/2 hours) I'll be a pretty happy camper. I'm not willing to hire a coach and I haven't gleaned much info from the web on that specific event. Just trying to steadily increase my speeds for 30, 60, 120 minute sessions on the trainer and doing one longer session per week. My current long session is 3 hours and is anywhere between 14 - 15 MPH on the trainer. However, I absolutely have to get a different saddle if I'm to increase that time. I'm not doing much interval work at this point, partly because a 50-miler doesn't really involve riding above lactate threshold. Every three weeks I may do a 20 x 2 interval just for fun, but I don't see any 5 minute intervals helping me out on 50-mile rides.

Well that's good to hear. My goal this year is to make improvements in my 50-mile time. Last September my best was 16.9 MPH average with no breaks. I stopped once at my car to grab an extra bottle of gatorade but kept the computer going. And I r-e-a-l-l-y had to pee :o but managed to wait until the end of the ride.

If I can get that 50-mile speed anywhere close to 20 MPH (or 2 1/2 hours) I'll be a pretty happy camper. I'm not willing to hire a coach and I haven't gleaned much info from the web on that specific event. Just trying to steadily increase my speeds for 30, 60, 120 minute sessions on the trainer and doing one longer session per week. My current long session is 3 hours and is anywhere between 14 - 15 MPH on the trainer. However, I absolutely have to get a different saddle if I'm to increase that time. I'm not doing much interval work at this point, partly because a 50-miler doesn't really involve riding above lactate threshold. Every three weeks I may do a 20 x 2 interval just for fun, but I don't see any 5 minute intervals helping me out on 50-mile rides.

That would be a super milestone - a 20 mph average half century!