Mountain Biking - what separates a 500+ frame vs 200?

Im just curious, when it comes to ALUMINUM hardtail frames. I see some that are not cheap, well over 500. And i see some like what im running now ("Leader LD515") for sub 200. What justifies the price? Or is it just the brand, does the 500 frame have any significant advantage?

Part brand name.
Part quality control
part buidling (some are one off or hand made even)
part material quality/weld quality

Its a lot of everything. Its almost like saying the stuff and hardrock are on par frame wise. In fact there are differences in strength. The Stuff is more becuase it is a better frame for that purpose. when you start to get to really high end frames (evil or 24) they are offering SIGNIFIGANT strength bonus's at around the same weight.

Well i know with Leader frames, its eason 6061, handwelded. I dont get why its so cheap though, its got fantastic reviews and if i ever bothered to review it ide give it a 5 star. But i see these frames like from Salsa and i dont see why they would be better

just as a matter of curiousity, what do they mean when they said TIG welded? Is this a good thing?

Its a form of welding. It a thing. I am not a welder so I won't pretend to know the strengths and weaknesses of each type of welding.

haha mael, i gotta say your first post in this thread sounded like an explanation for a rpg game...strength bonuses...haha...im ******** i know...

isnt the different in welding depend on whether its done with a flame welder(i.e. asetalyne torch...dunno if that spelled rite) or a electric spark welder ilike a tig, cause an spark welder gets wayyy hotter than a flame and i think its stronger, i dont know anything other than which is hotter....

haha mael, i gotta say your first post in this thread sounded like an explanation for a rpg game...strength bonuses...haha...im ******** i know...

Like mech warrior. A little too 'new' to be d&d

i was thinking more like diablo 2 or WoW, or RO...i dunno, im a gamer so i play alot of that crap, heh bikes and computers, wouldnt think theyd go that well together but behold, a computer *geek*(i use the term lightly) who goes outside...

dood imma geek too!

i was thinking more like diablo 2 or WoW, or RO...i dunno, im a gamer so i play alot of that crap, heh bikes and computers, wouldnt think theyd go that well together but behold, a computer *geek*(i use the term lightly) who goes outside...

Yeah never a big fan of rpg games on pc's. Kind of defeats the purpose of ROLE playing games.

You have to remember that all aluminum is not created equal. Different alloys such as 6061 and 7075 are similar, but the latter is much stronger with a minimal weight increase. Much of aluminums strength come form heat treating processes. In many cases the metal can become almost 3 times stronger. Depending on the quality of the heat treating job, it can be difficult to do and expensive. Any form of intense heat, such as welding can completely alter the metals property and undue what the heat treating accomplished, so when it comes to welding you would want the most concentrated heat source, so that not as much heat has to be put into the metal to weld. Tig welding accomplishes this by providing a very concentrated heat source.

Tig welding originated in taiwan, and is when the frame is fitted together and jolted with enought electricity to light up taiwan. it is genarally stronger than lug welded frames.

Bottom line = You pay for the little sticker on the downtube....

Santa Cruz has some of the most expensive nowadaze....

Bottom line = You pay for the little sticker on the downtube....

Santa Cruz has some of the most expensive nowadaze....
im more and more convinced, there seems to more and more marketing BS i see discover each day. My frame i think is of very high quality, and the reviews say so too. But you take it to the LBS and they say what is that? But on the other hand i payed 99 dollars+20 s/h. zero bling points,

One thing i will say, the only complaint is the paint. Even though the decals are clearcoated, damn the paint scratches easily!

There are significant advantages to some frames. Lateral stiffness, rigidity, and geometry all hold the key in the frame design. Each has it's own....

PS. Don't forget the weight of the frame either.... I have a DB Axis TR that the frame only weighs 4.6 lbs. One of the lightest Chromoly frames ever made....

Without getting into too much detail, the difference between the tensile strenghth (it's ability to withstand bending and stretching...i.e. typical MTB abuse) varies greatly from one aluminum compound to the next. Cheap aluminum can be as brittle as a Saltine wherease a solid, well produced compound can be incredibly strong.

The old adage "You get what you pay for" is absolutely true when it comes to bike frames and the materials with which they're built.

what separates a 500+ frame vs 200?
Hopefully $300 worth of material manipulation, alloying, welding, machining. and finishing

i was thinking more like diablo 2 or WoW, or RO...i dunno, im a gamer so i play alot of that crap, heh bikes and computers, wouldnt think theyd go that well together but behold, a computer *geek*(i use the term lightly) who goes outside...
<==== Breakdancing, Bike Loving, Caffeine chuggin, Comp loving geek. :D

One thing i will say, the only complaint is the paint. Even though the decals are clearcoated, damn the paint scratches easily!
What is it that you ride again?

What is it that you ride again?
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=39174&page=52&pp=25

Bottom line = You pay for the little sticker on the downtube....

Santa Cruz has some of the most expensive nowadaze....

Actually, Santa Cruz are some of the more affordable production custom frames available.

Check out the MSRP of Ellsworth, Ventana, and Intense.

I have a Diamond Back Sorrento. the complete bike was under $300.00. I destroyed most of the parts (riding it how it was never intended to be ridden so no complaints from me) but the frame rocks.

7075 series aluminum. most 'hardcore' mtn. bikers wouldn't think twice about this frame based on it's pricetag. but I think it's nice, especially for the price. the only downside is I can't put disc brakes on it. but I guess that's a good thing as it keeps me from having to buy expensive disc brakes. :)

this frame will last me a long time as I don't ride it much and when I do, it's just cross country. (with the occasional drop or two, nothing major though)


tig vs. mig. (i took a few welding classes at the community college, i'm not an expert..)
tig allows for smaller welds and less heat on the metal. the less heat, the less the metal gets fatigued. (sp?)

I think most welded frames these days are tig. I don't think they ever use mig, but I could be wrong.

those ellsworth frames are retardedly expensive....that dj lookin one, i dunno what its called is like 900$ isnt it?

I think they are hand built, in the USA. that makes the cost go way up.

Mhmm. Cheap labour can still mean good quality, just that some people are on the low paying side. It makes me feel odd when I look at my frame or any china/taiwan made frame and we get these things for cheap, and those people get paid incredibly low.

The frame on my Instinct is at least around $1000 MRSP with rear shock, and I love the build quality of the frame.

I guess I also paid into the brand image, a better material, and more R&D dollars behind the frame. The result is a superior handling machine.

Sparks...you paid for the name. There is no R&D left on the Instinct, likely wasn't any during the build. Thats the biggest reason I don't like RM. The offer very old outdated tech (without even a push for the new) for outrageous pricing. Other companies offering similar old style tech drop the pricing.

Sparks...you paid for the name. There is no R&D left on the Instinct, likely wasn't any during the build. Thats the biggest reason I don't like RM. The offer very old outdated tech (without even a push for the new) for outrageous pricing. Other companies offering similar old style tech drop the pricing.

Well, the initial design did require a bit of R&D I'm sure. The design may be out-dated, but it still works well :D

Since the bike handles as good as I want any bike to be, I really didn't mind paying the premium for it.