I have been doing this for about 8 months and still am not sure what the proper approach is...

Every day on the way to work I have to ride over a major interstate overpass. This means crossing one on ramp and one ramp with no stop lights at them. When traffic is heavy it's always very hard to navigate. When the on ramp starts, I'm not sure if I should stay in the middle lane and have cars on both sides of me (all of them indignant, of course) or move all the way to the right, and then try to cross back over when the on-ramp divides from the main road. Both of these approaches feel awfully dangerous to me.

Any tips? Maybe the vehicular cyclists can help me with this one.

25 years ago I had 2 close calls in two days on two ramps. I have never crossed a ramp since. I bike about 2 miles out of my way every day just to avoid them.

25 years ago I had 2 close calls in two days on two ramps. I have never crossed a ramp since. I bike about 2 miles out of my way every day just to avoid them.
I would do the same but... if I take the ramps I can get to a lovely series of bike trails which I love to ride on in the mornings.

Do you mean there's an on-ramp going off to the right before the bridge, then you go over the bridge, and there's another ramp of motorist coming off the highway from the right and emptying into your road? How many lanes besides the ramps? How heavy is the traffic, both on your road and the ramps?

Do you mean there's an on-ramp going off to the right before the bridge, then you go over the bridge, and there's another ramp of motorist coming off the highway from the right and emptying into your road? How many lanes besides the ramps? How heavy is the traffic, both on your road and the ramps?
It's nearly as you've described it, but actually there's an additional ramp of motorists heading ONTO the highway sorta on top of the ramp. There are 3 lanes beside the ramps. The speed limit is 35 mph (~50 km/h) and the traffic when heavy is about 20 feet between successive cars. There are often large trucks too. The whole ugly mess is only about 1/4 mile long, but the most unpleasant and dangerous part of my commute for sure.

I have been doing this for about 8 months and still am not sure what the proper approach is...

Every day on the way to work I have to ride over a major interstate overpass. This means crossing one on ramp and one ramp with no stop lights at them. When traffic is heavy it's always very hard to navigate. When the on ramp starts, I'm not sure if I should stay in the middle lane and have cars on both sides of me (all of them indignant, of course) or move all the way to the right, and then try to cross back over when the on-ramp divides from the main road. Both of these approaches feel awfully dangerous to me.

Any tips? Maybe the vehicular cyclists can help me with this one.

I encounter a similar situation on my trek to campus. Passe by one on ramp and one off ramp. I stay in the right most lane until about 50-100m before it divides.

I then start looking for gaps in the traffic, if there is one I signal take the lane and merge into the next lane. If not start signalling and wait, usually the drivers are pretty good about this and let me through. I give them a friendly thank you wave.

Of course the traffic manual would have you stop at the point where the onramp divides, cross like a pedestrian and remount your bike and continue on. You could also do that if nobody yields to you.

If you could provide a picture of this concrete mess you're describing it would be helpful.

I
Of course the traffic manual would have you stop at the point where the onramp divides, cross like a pedestrian and remount your bike and continue on. You could also do that if nobody yields to you.



I would say the manual has it pretty well in this no-win situation. I was on the access road to Bangkok from its international airport and it had a dozen of these off/on ramps. I felt much more secure and respected dismounting and making a solid dash to get across. Situations where traffic was light and I felt I was visible to all cars were very rare.

roughstuff

I'm not sure what you mean about the additional ramp going onto the highway at the top, so I'll ignore that for now.

Sounds scary, and I can't say I've had experience with that, so take this with a grain of salt. I haven't taken the road course or even read the book, I've just commuted for 2-1/2 years and read about VC principles here for a few months, which have confirmed some of the conclusions I'd already come to. So I'm mostly just saying what I think I would do based on my intuition.

I would definitely not keep all the way to the right and cross back over at the last moment. Way too dangerous and unpredictable, IMHO. You may have to actually take a lane. You say you might "stay in the middle lane", do you mean the middle of the middle lane? Or do you mean on or near the line between the middle lane and the right lane? The latter would be dangerous because you'd be encouraging cars in both lanes to squeeze by you on both sides without really enough room. So the only other alternative seems to be to take a complete lane, and for this, the right lane (not including the on-ramp) is probably the best choice. Yes, motorists will be indignant, but I think this at least will feel most natural to everyone. No worse than if you were a broken-down car travelling at 15 MPH.

How to negotiate this, I'm not sure. Look for a good space (get a mirror if you don't have one), turn your head a bit (a good visual clue for motorists), signal, start gradually moving into the lane. Easy for me to say, I know. If done gradually enough, hopefully the motorists behind you will have time to react accordingly. By taking the lane, you are guarenteeing that no one will turn right into you (unless someone in the middle lane changes their mind and suddenly decides they need to be on the ramp), and you will be more visible to the people merging into your lane after the bridge.

Well, I think that would be close to the official VC answer, although I have to say I'm not completely comfortable with it either. As an alternative, I'm sure some others would suggest stopping at the edge of each ramp and crossing it as a pedestrian, waiting for a break in traffic or a nice motorist to wave you across. And maybe that would be safer, intrinsically and/or if it makes you more comfortable.

What do others say?

I'm not sure what you mean about the additional ramp going onto the highway at the top, so I'll ignore that for now.

Sounds scary, and I can't say I've had experience with that, so take this with a grain of salt. I haven't taken the road course or even read the book, I've just commuted for 2-1/2 years and read about VC principles here for a few months, which have confirmed some of the conclusions I'd already come to. So I'm mostly just saying what I think I would do based on my intuition.

I would definitely not keep all the way to the right and cross back over at the last moment. Way too dangerous and unpredictable, IMHO. You may have to actually take a lane. You say you might "stay in the middle lane", do you mean the middle of the middle lane? Or do you mean on or near the line between the middle lane and the right lane? The latter would be dangerous because you'd be encouraging cars in both lanes to squeeze by you on both sides without really enough room. So the only other alternative seems to be to take a complete lane, and for this, the right lane (not including the on-ramp) is probably the best choice. Yes, motorists will be indignant, but I think this at least will feel most natural to everyone. No worse than if you were a broken-down car travelling at 15 MPH.

How to negotiate this, I'm not sure. Look for a good space (get a mirror if you don't have one), turn your head a bit (a good visual clue for motorists), signal, start gradually moving into the lane. Easy for me to say, I know. If done gradually enough, hopefully the motorists behind you will have time to react accordingly. By taking the lane, you are guarenteeing that no one will turn right into you (unless someone in the middle lane changes their mind and suddenly decides they need to be on the ramp), and you will be more visible to the people merging into your lane after the bridge.

Well, I think that would be close to the official VC answer, although I have to say I'm not completely comfortable with it either. As an alternative, I'm sure some others would suggest stopping at the edge of each ramp and crossing it as a pedestrian, waiting for a break in traffic or a nice motorist to wave you across. And maybe that would be safer, intrinsically and/or if it makes you more comfortable.

What do others say?

Thanks, John. I think I will try taking the right lane tomorrow morning. I would use the pedestrian approach when the traffic is too heavy, but one of the ramps actually doesn't have any accomodation for pedestrians at all, not even a tiny little shoulder.

I haven't read Forrester's book, but I probably wouldn't take the right lane if there is two lanes going on to the freeway(HOV lane). Then I would take the lane to the left of the lane merging onto the freeway. The other thing you have to watch out for is if there's a solid white line dividing the two lanes. You're not allowed to cross that, so you'd have to take the lane to the left of it before it starts.

Depends on traffic speed and density, but I find that doing a left turn signal helps. It emphasises the fact I don't want to go there and that I'm ready to jump in their face...

Are you sure that's the only way to get to those nice bike paths? Maybe there's some other way you haven't heard of yet. You should ask someone locally.

Are you sure that's the only way to get to those nice bike paths? Maybe there's some other way you haven't heard of yet. You should ask someone locally.
There is another way that basically requires me to go an extra 1.5 miles to skirt this 1/4 mile section. I know it might be worth it for safety, but first I'm gonna try what John suggested.

This is what I do crossing interstates 'On/Off' ramps:

Ride on the right side of the right lane approaching the 'On' ramp. Ride a strait line, staying left of the dividing line between the 'On' ramp and the through lane - you should not change lanes or ride in the 'On' ramp or on the right shoulder.

Some cars will pass you on the left, cross in front of you and use the 'On' ramp. Most will simply figure out that you are not going to enter the interstate system and pass on your right, excepting cars continuing over the overpass.

After crossing the bridge, cars using the 'Off' ramp will be merging from your right side. Look back and make sure they see you. Give an arm signal if necessary to make sure the cars yield. If the 'Off' ramp is long, one or two cars may pass you on the right, but most will slow down, wait for you to clear the ramp and pass on the left. Simply continue on in a strait line and you have made it across!

I agree with galen, too. That's kind of what I was going for.

Please let us know how it went.

moxfyre, are you trying to tackle the beltway overpass at Ikea? In the morning rush? I must say that I would be inclined to go a mere 1.5 miles out of my way rather than tackle that frazzled area. I don't even like driving there, and cagers are particularly bad on and around the beltway, especially in the morning. Be careful.

moxfyre, are you trying to tackle the beltway overpass at Ikea? In the morning rush? I must say that I would be inclined to go a mere 1.5 miles out of my way rather than tackle that frazzled area. I don't even like driving there, and cagers are particularly bad on and around the beltway, especially in the morning. Be careful.
Yeah, you got it :P Today was gridlocked due to light snow, so I didn't have to do any of these things. But I'll report on it tomorrow.

If you can leave just a bit earlier it may make a big difference. At least here in the LA area it does.

I was ten minutes late starting my commute today and the traffic was MUCH heavier.

I've got a similar situation where Columbia Pike crosses Arlington Blvd. Several hundred feet before the ramp, I take the lane, riding in the right tire track. I do plenty of shoulder checks to make sure there's no obliviopus sot behind me. Given that the traffic is neither fast nor terribly heavy, it is a mystery why they have a high speed onramp there.

Paul

Heavier traffic is better, low speeds no cars to worry about buzzing you. Just watch for the right hooks or split the lane.

I think it may help too, if you get in the correct lane position on the early side, rather than very close to the on ramp. If you need a motorist to let you get in the right place, you have a little time to communicate with a motorist before the ramp. If a driver is cooperative, even if you have to slow him down for a bit it may make sense to be in front of him before you get to the ramp. At least you know this driver has seen you and is slowing if needed. If you slow him down for a while after you get past the ramp and can move over, give a passing sign when you can. And try to give a "Thank you" wave if possible. Some people appreciate it. That motorist may be a regular on that route and may let you get safely in front of him again. If you get close to the driver in traffic, thank the driver too. I know sometimes it's impossible to do this too.

I've got a similar situation where Columbia Pike crosses Arlington Blvd. Several hundred feet before the ramp, I take the lane, riding in the right tire track. I do plenty of shoulder checks to make sure there's no obliviopus sot behind me. Given that the traffic is neither fast nor terribly heavy, it is a mystery why they have a high speed onramp there.

Paul

:beer:

This gives you a traffic calming (or slowing) effect before the ramp. And you do the lane position as one maneuver before you get to the ramp. You don't have to deal with the ramp at the same time.
The drivers are less distracted before the ramp too. They can concentrate on just you when they have too. By the time you get to the ramp you are going in a straight predictable line, it’s easier for the drivers to understand your intentions too. It is very clear you are going straight. For me a quality helmet mirror makes all this easier. I can see in front and behind almost at the same time. I never get surprised from behind anymore.
I think half the battle is being predictable to a driver. It gives them a little more confidence, and that is safer for the cyclist.

I detest freeway-style uncontrolled free right turns, merges, and diverges and believe they have no place except on freeways themselves. San Diego's cycling and pedestrian advocacy groups actually got CalTrans to change its policy, such that all new freeway access ramps meet the rest of the street system at right angles and with appropriate traffic controls. If I know in advance about a particularly nasty onramp or offramp, I avoid it if practicable.

I have been criticized by some vehicular cycling advocates for referring to these abominations as "deathtraps," but that is precisely how I view the worst of them. Get active with your local cycling, pedestrian, and/or disabled access advocacy groups and see if you can have a bit of judicious traffic re-engineering or traffic calming done. Remind your civic leaders of the potential liability nightmare an inherently dangerous intersection represents.

One of San Diego's most shameful freeway onramps is from southbound Gilman Drive to southbound I-5, one block north of the access to the Rose Canyon bikeway. The San Diego County Bicycle Coalition was able to get this thing restriped so that there was only one right turn lane, and occasionally we get a police sting operation against motorists who turn right from the through lane, potentially endangering cyclists.

One of San Diego's most shameful freeway onramps is from southbound Gilman Drive to southbound I-5, one block north of the access to the Rose Canyon bikeway. The San Diego County Bicycle Coalition was able to get this thing restriped so that there was only one right turn lane, and occasionally we get a police sting operation against motorists who turn right from the through lane, potentially endangering cyclists.

Oh how well I know that spot... I remember when the change took place... raised civility 100%, although there are still dolts that try that right hook entry.

Another bad spot is west bound I-52 at south bound Genesee... two on ramps and an off ramp all in about 70 yards... A right angled on ramp, followed by a "square" ramp for left turning north bound motorists who are not looking for cyclists, and then finally a looping off-ramp that blindly dumps motorists onto Genesee. Just before that intersection at Governor drive, the bike lane on Genesee is useless... it is right along parallel parked cars. I simply take the lane and ride cautious up to the light on the other side of the bridge, and then begin my climb out of the valley in the BL along the 45MPH traffic.

I think I'm going to cry. The advise in this thread is that beautiful. Kudos to operator, JohnBrooking (you learned to explain that from reading this forum???), 2manybikes, and galen for providing what appears to be excellent advise, along with Michael Gagnon's tip about using the hand signal.

I agree a diagram would be helpful. But to summarize:

Before reaching the first ramp, get into the rightmost lane that serves your destination (getting past that ramp, for now). In other words, if there are any lanes that are dedicated to that ramp, get to the left of them. Others have described how to do this, involving waiting for gaps, or negotiating for gaps using look backs over your shoulder and perhaps hand signalling, until someone yields the right-of-way for you.
If your lane goes straight only (going off on the ramp is not an option), ride around the right tire track. If you get too far to the right, motorists might try to squeeze their cars into the lane with you - if they do, that's your signal that you're riding too far to the right. But there's no reason to require them to leave more of the lane than necessary in order to pass you safely, so you probably don't have to ride all the way in the center of the lane.
If your lane goes straight AND right down the ramp, then you might want to ride further to the left, to give ramp-headed motorists more room on your right to get to the ramp, and to discourage them from passing you on the left and cutting right in front of you.
Once you cross the first ramp you have to think about your next position (of course, you should think about it now so you won't have to think about it when you're actually enroute!). Where does your lane go now? Again, choose the rightmost lane that serves your (next) destination, and negotiate as required to get there.


I have to cross I-5 on my commute. It used to make me nervous. Now it's enjoyable.

Serge

I think I'm going to cry. The advise in this thread is that beautiful.
Serge

:roflmao: :roflmao:

If you promise not to cry anymore. ;)

I'll tell you that you convinced me to buy a brand new copy of
Effective Cycling. I am sharing it with cyclists that ride in traffic with me.

AND!! the one that scared me the most has improved 110% You should see this guy Serge!
Flowing smoothly in the best lane position, past on ramps, off ramps, through Multi lane intersections
in the correct lane. Turning left from the right side of the left turn lane! 30 miles on one of the worst high traffic non
bike friendly roads in the state !! Smooth as glass....one night he did some reading.........
ONE NIGHT.........!! This guy was all over the place, I really truly thought I was going to lose him some day. My friend of
35 years. I am not kidding!

Thank you Serge ! :)

Taken from the bike on that road.

... I have to cross I-5 on my commute. It used to make me nervous. Now it's enjoyable. ...

Serge, I agreed with everything in your well-written post except your bottom line, which I cited above. If you find crossing the free merges and diverges at the mouths of freeway lanes "enjoyable," you and I have radically different definitions of "fun." I freely admit to being "chicken :eek: ," but I hope you are not overconfident. On the road, by far my greatest concern is inattentive or distracted motorists; they're a dime a dozen, and I'm looking for the guy who is supplying the dimes.

Please also understand that certain maneuvers which you can execute with grace and artistry do not come easily to some of us. Also, consider the plight of pedestrians, who have fewer options than cyclists in road positioning. Automobile-centric road design has ruled for too long; the rest of us need to take back our streets through traffic calming and pedestrian- and bicycle-friendly intersection design.

Automobile-centric road design has ruled for too long; the rest of us need to take back our streets through traffic calming and pedestrian- and bicycle-friendly intersection design.Here are some excerpts from an article about a new approach to design:
The cure for traffic chaos? Remove the signs, lines, lights.
By Mark Rice-Oxley

LONDON - It's the London you've always imagined ... hostile
terrain for the lowly pedestrian, who is encouraged to avoid the
street-level chaos on Exhibition Road by using a dingy underground
walkway instead.

Annoyed at how their upscale neighborhood has been ruined by
incessant traffic, local authorities are planning to unveil a radical
solution Monday: remove the conventional insignia of the road -
traffic lights, white lines, guardrails, sidewalks - and create a
single "shared space" for everyone, motorized or not.

At first glance, the idea seems a little reckless. After all, it is
only the presence of the crossing signals on Exhibition Road that
seems to keep the bewildered, stray tourists from a nasty accident.
And governments the world over have long since concluded that the
safest way to avoid catastrophe on the roads is to segregate vehicles
from pedestrians.

But the experience from Europe would suggest otherwise. The
Netherlands in particular, has pioneered a completely new approach to
traffic and public space.

The idea of "shared space" is to denude a street of most of its
conventional markings and features and create a different urban
landscape in which motorists and pedestrians are put on an equal
footing, so to speak. Drivers start to behave in a very different way
amid the new uncertainty, moving slowly, making eye contact with
pedestrians, and becoming aware of much more than whether the lights
have gone red.

Evidence from Dutch towns is impressive. Safety records have
improved, local officials report, and accidents, when they do happen
are far less serious, because of the slow speeds.

Yet overall cross-town speeds are no slower than before, because
intersections are far more fluid and snarl-ups are rare...

Several British cities and towns, from Ipswich in the east to Bath
and Bristol in the west and Manchester in the north, are catching on
...

... a driver will happily ignore a sign telling him to drive at 20 miles per hour,
but will rapidly assimilate signals from a changed
environment. If he drives onto a campsite for example or into a
parking garage, he will kill his speed, start looking out for
pedestrians and behave in a totally different fashion. This is the
essence of what "shared space" is all about.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0127/p01s03-woeu.html

Here are some excerpts from an article about a new approach to design:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0127/p01s03-woeu.html

In residential neighborhoods and smaller village business districts, such a scheme just might work pretty well. However, these are not typically the places I have safety problems or concerns. The problem we have where a fast arterial meets a freeway access ramp is that motorists are NOT automatically adjusting their speed and behaviour to accommodate bicyclists and pedstrians, but are roaring through on these sweeping, banked, large-radius curves engineered expressly for speed.

Serge, I agreed with everything in your well-written post except your bottom line, which I cited above. If you find crossing the free merges and diverges at the mouths of freeway lanes "enjoyable," you and I have radically different definitions of "fun."
I guess I find riding my bike enjoyable any time there isn't something that really bugs me. Like glass. When I see a patch of broken glass too late to avoid, and must ride through it, I don't enjoy that (of course, this almost always only happens in a bike lane).

So, since dealing with on/off ramps no longer bugs me, I find riding enjoyable - my default state. I know the rules, I know what I'm supposed to do, and I do it. As I watch the drivers fall into place accordingly, I feel like Clint Eastwood directing a movie. Everyone is doing what I want them to do AND what they want to do. So, yeah, I enjoy it.


I freely admit to being "chicken :eek: ," but I hope you are not overconfident.
I don't think I am. My wife passes me in the car on her commute on occasion and she sees what I'm doing from a driver's perspective and supports it. That means a lot to me.


On the road, by far my greatest concern is inattentive or distracted motorists; they're a dime a dozen, and I'm looking for the guy who is supplying the dimes.
I think I'm constantly aware of whose attention/cooperation is of the greatest concern to me, and verify/confirm that I have it before I rely on it. This is markedly different from never assuming I have someone's attention, which would make it impossible to ride in traffic.


Please also understand that certain maneuvers which you can execute with grace and artistry do not come easily to some of us.
I don't buy that. While on a good day I can keep up with the sdbc Saturday ride, I don't think I rely on too much of that ability to get through traffic. Perhaps I'm oblivious. But I do also ride in commute traffic pulling a child trailer. I think the main thing is communicating with driver, cooperating with them, and getting their cooperation. While some basic skills are necessary -- like being able to ride a straight line while looking back over your shoulder for a few seconds -- it's nothing any experienced cyclist shouldn't already know how to do.


Also, consider the plight of pedestrians, who have fewer options than cyclists in road positioning.
Pedestrians have forgotten how to cross at intersections that don't have signals. They have the right-of-way, but are reluctant to assert it. I do it all the time - causing motorists to stop to let me cross. I don't see what the big deal is. Seems like attitude more than anything else.


Automobile-centric road design has ruled for too long; the rest of us need to take back our streets through traffic calming and pedestrian- and bicycle-friendly intersection design.
Or assertiveness training...

So, since dealing with on/off ramps no longer bugs me, I find riding enjoyable - my default state. I know the rules, I know what I'm supposed to do, and I do it. As I watch the drivers fall into place accordingly...

On my daily commute I've learned to enjoy what were previously stressful situations as I've learned the traffic patterns and the best way to handle them - I understand what you are describing.

But what about the non-repetetive route? In these cases I find I get into new and therefore stressful situations - what I thought would work (i.e. where to merge left, which lane to ride in) for similar situation can be different. Do you find this as well? Actually I would guess most everyone does, just as most everyone finds getting around a new city or region by car to be less relaxing than the home turf.

Al

But what about the non-repetetive route? In these cases I find I get into new and therefore stressful situations - what I thought would work (i.e. where to merge left, which lane to ride in) for similar situation can be different. Do you find this as well?
To an extent.

If you don't travel much, arriving in a new city, renting a car, getting a map, finding you way to your hotel in rush hour, can be stressful.

If you travel regularly, it becomes routine to travel in new situations, and not nearly as stressful.

Cycling is similar. The more I find myself in new situations, the less "new" they seem...

Pay attention, remember the rules, stick to the rules.

Having said all that, knowing when to start merging left across multiple busy lanes to get to a left turn only lane on a new route is hard to get right the first time. Do you start 3 blocks back? 2 blocks? 1 block? Maybe only 1/2 block is good enough.

But drivers of cars have similar problems on new busy routes. It's not all that different.

Serge

But drivers of cars have similar problems on new busy routes. It's not all that different.

I do find it different. You can be that driver in a new city that all the other cars honk at and curse as you pull a stupid move, not the same on a bike, although on a bike you can use your maneverability to get out of situations you can't in a car. But you can use the mass and visual presence of your car to get out of bad situations much easier than say finding yourself stuck between two fast lanes on a bike on a road that is taking you on a freeway, for a silly example.

Al

...finding yourself stuck between two fast lanes on a bike on a road that is taking you on a freeway, for a silly example.
Yikes! I'm happy to say I've never been there.

I hear what you're saying. I guess if I moved to a new city I would probably "explore" potential routes by car before I started commuting by bike.

Yikes! I'm happy to say I've never been there.

An example is west bound Fletcher Parkway in La Mesa going to Hiway 8... but then you would have to ride way east to experience that. Another example is El Cajon Boulevard in El Cajon, again connecting to Hiway 8 west.

Staying in the right lane on either of these roads will put you on a hiway.

Man am I glad I live on the east coast! We are just about out of room for any more stinking freeways....

And the ones we have, are about as wide as they are gonna get.

... Pedestrians have forgotten how to cross at intersections that don't have signals. They have the right-of-way, but are reluctant to assert it. I do it all the time - causing motorists to stop to let me cross. I don't see what the big deal is. Seems like attitude more than anything else.
Or assertiveness training...

Peds have right-of-way only where streets meet at right angles. Diverges and merges are problematic.

Peds have right-of-way only where streets meet at right angles. Diverges and merges are problematic.
The I-5 ramps @ LJ Village drive have crosswalks. That's all that should be required to accomodate peds.

There is a ped crossing an onramp at Clairemont Mesa Blvd and 805 N that must have been designed by an idiot... it is just past the junction of the street and onramp on the arc of the onramp as it decends below grade... just as the drivers are starting to pick up speed. No one expects a ped there, and I have seen 'em running as I go by parallel on my bike on the street past the onramp.

BTW this is also a bad spot for right hooks. This 4 lane road (2 each way) has an extra "dashed lane" on the west bound side that goes across the bridge... (thus 3 lanes at that location, west bound) going from the offramp to the onramp... one of those CA "merging lanes." I am often a thru cyclist there, so I ride outside of (to the left) of the dashes.

Too often a motorist passes me and then just jets over to take the onramp. (I should probably take the whole real right lane, but I am really centered in a huge amount of pavement, thus rather "in the middle") They don't try to go behind me, nope, they just go in front and then down the onramp. There is so much asphalt there that I really can't "claim" any area... They just drive around me as if I was a tree in the middle of the the 3 lane wide road.

If I move more left, thru motorists pass on the right and back out of the merge lane. If I move more right, it looks as though I am trying to get on the freeway, and I become too open to the right hooks. It is as if the right two lanes are for merging and transition.

Driving, I stay in the far left lane...

That intersection (CM Blvd @ 805) is used to teach ramp negotiation in the SDCBC Road 1 course.

We went through it several different ways and that's where we were tested later.

That intersection (CM Blvd @ 805) is used to teach ramp negotiation in the SDCBC Road 1 course.

We went through it several different ways and that's where we were tested later.

It's a classic all right... Was there any particular "right way?" I find it very situational. At rush hour it is really a challange... fortunately I usually don't hit it at rush hour.

In case anyone's still wondering, this morning there was enough traffic to employ John's strategy. I basically just moved into the right lane (on-ramp lane) and stayed in the middle of it until it split off and I could get back in the main roadway. It worked great... a few cars slowed down behind me, but no one honked or was rude in any way. Thanks for the advice, this will hopefully make my daily commute less harrowing.

I basically just moved into the right lane (on-ramp lane) and stayed in the middle of it until it split off and I could get back in the main roadway. It worked great...
Good job!

Sounds like there was a gap, and you moved into it. The next step is learning to do the exact same thing when you're not lucky enough to have a gap to move into.

What you do then is request that a gap be created for you. Surprising enough, often just looking back over your left shoulder is enough to cause a motorist just behind you to slow down and let you in.

But if that doesn't work, go ahead and assertively stick out your left arm and keep alternating between looking ahead (to avoid crashing!) and looking behind (to emphasize your desire to merge left, and to see if anyone is letting you in), but do not start moving left until someone actually yields the right-of-way to you (by slowing down and letting you in).

Once someone yields the right-of-way to you by slowing down and making that gap for you, move in. From that point it's exactly the same situation as you had this morning. So don't be intimidated next time you try this and you're not as lucky because there is no gap... request that one be created for you!

Is there another way you can take that does not include the on/off ramps? If there is take it. For one it may be illegal for you to ride on the ramps to cross the interstate as you are. But the most important thing is, it is too dangerous. Even if your commute is extended by finding another way I suggest you do so.

Is there another way you can take that does not include the on/off ramps? If there is take it. For one it may be illegal for you to ride on the ramps to cross the interstate as you are. But the most important thing is, it is too dangerous. Even if your commute is extended by finding another way I suggest you do so.

In this town, no, the boulevards connect isolated mesas... and thus ARE the only roads.

Is there another way you can take that does not include the on/off ramps? If there is take it. For one it may be illegal for you to ride on the ramps to cross the interstate as you are. But the most important thing is, it is too dangerous. Even if your commute is extended by finding another way I suggest you do so.
What's dangerous? If you know what you're doing, what he's doing can be done quite safely.
He's not riding on the ramps, he's simply riding on a road from which ramps diverge and to which they merge. How can that be illegal?
This traffic avoidance mentality is very interesting... probably a bike lane supporter, right?

I'm glad to say that the nearest on/off ramp to me is 29 miles away, and illegal for bicycle use. All I need to contend with are occasional accelleration/deceleration lanes on the major highways. Other wise, I'm in the desert or in neighborhoods. In general, with rare exceptions, I feel safe on the bike, no matter how far I am riding.

Is there another way you can take that does not include the on/off ramps? If there is take it. For one it may be illegal for you to ride on the ramps to cross the interstate as you are. But the most important thing is, it is too dangerous. Even if your commute is extended by finding another way I suggest you do so.
I should clarify that I'm not really riding on the ramp, just on the lane that forms to the right of the roadway before it divides off onto the ramp. I think the on-ramps at least are pretty safe with the advice I've been given, the off-ramps maybe a little trickier.

This traffic avoidance mentality is very interesting... probably a bike lane supporter, right?

1. New cyclist reads (Blank's) post.
2. Big mental concrete wall goes up in new cyclist's mind.
3. Everything (Blank) says after that is doubted or immediately discounted totally.




Remember "honey", not "vinegar".
Finesse people, finesse!! ;)

What's dangerous? If you know what you're doing, what he's doing can be done quite safely.
He's not riding on the ramps, he's simply riding on a road from which ramps diverge and to which they merge. How can that be illegal?
This traffic avoidance mentality is very interesting... probably a bike lane supporter, right?

Easy there fella. Why so confrontational? Do you always insist on being overly confrontive on every issue posted in these forums? Because it sure seems that you are! You seem to have a problem with everyone's opinion & advice but your own. Someone in these forums once told me something about a glass house & throwing rocks. I'm giving you the same advice. I suggest you take it to heart I have.

Now that I've said that. Keep in mind when I give advice on anything it is just that advice. It is up to the person I'm giving it to to use it or not. I will never make anyone use or even agree with what ever advice I may give, I leave it up to the individual.

Traffic avoidance, IMO is important when ever possible, especially when the traffic is hostile, aggressive, etc. Here is an example of what I mean, keep in mind I ma basing this on the area in which I live, Iowa. In Iowa it is illegal to ride a bicycle on any road way that has a minimum posted speed limit, which typically is 40 mph. This includes all interstate systems in the state.

But just because it is legal to ride on a street doesn't mean it is safe to do so. In Sioux City, where I live, there are 2 very & constantly busy streets. They are Hamilton Blvd & Gordon Drive. It is legal, according to state, county & city laws to ride a bicycle on them. But very dangerous to do so. So guess what Serge? No one does so! Cyclists in this community find an alternate route. And there are plenty of them that bypass both streets. However on Hamilton it is safe to ride north of a street calle Stone Park Blvd. Hamilton runs north & south, Stone Park runs east & west & intersects with Hamilton. But south of Stone Park, forget it, way to dangerous.

Now I was unaware of the area moxfyre is riding on. If it is not illegal fine, he knows better then anyone else here the bicycle laws in his area, or at least he should. It is up to him then to ride through the area he described. But with the description of heavy traffic mentioned I advised him to try to find an alternate route. If he can't then he has to make the best of it & be as safe as possible.

Oh and by the way Serge, yes I'm a huge fan of bicycle lanes. In fact I'm working within an organization to have more & better bike lanes developed in my community. Got a problem with that? Tough! I really don't care & don't want to hear about it!

Finally I'm also a vehicular cyclist. I ride on the city streets all the time. And I ride very defensively. But at the same time I take appropriate routes through the city & there are enough of them that avoiding major traffic areas is not a problem. I don't take routes just because I can & it is legal to ride on the street so I can make a point with motorists that cyclists also have a legal right to the road ways. Most motorists in Iowa already know this.